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Contradictory Truths

If we have the Spirit of truth that leads us into all truth, which is not subjective, why do we have so many contradictory "truths" out there in Christianity? It seems more like relativism has crept into the Body of Christ as each one defines truth by "the way I see it."

Moderator - It is mostly due to false teachers and false prophets.

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"if we have the Spirit of Truth that leads us into all truth, which is not subjective" That is if "we have the Spirit of truth" Many who believe they have it do not. Hardness of heart is the inability or the unwillingness to understand the spiritual message of the Scriptures. Some men have known more of the Bible than some Christians in terms of actual content, but they did not understand the spiritual truth of redemption, repentance, and regeneration. One reason is the hardness of heart, the other the blindness of unbelief. They need the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Before a person receives Christ as Savior, the main work of the Holy Spirit is to help that individual to see his need for the Savior.
---Mark_V. on 7/16/08

Mark: yawnnn... Explain YOUR contradiction please.
---jerry6593 on 7/16/08

'If you want' implies choice. However, if you look at people carefully, they do not really have much choice. Many people are brainwashed from birth to receive erroneous teachings, and ideologies. If you read the book The Manchurian Candidate, it shows a more extreme example, that the condition of the mind is so important. (The book is better than the films.) How does a brainwashed person get themselves out of it? Difficult problem. Only God can do the work. Prayer might work. Evangelization might work but all this is work we do that God has prepared beforehand for us to do. It is initiated by God and the Holy Spirit carries it out in us.
---frances008 on 7/15/08

Hi, Alan . . . *practically*, "free will" means *we* must not try to force people (1 Peter 5:3), and God wants willing obedience (example > Exodus 35:5).

*Theologically*, I see two considerations >

(1) Each human is autonomous. Adam and Eve were God's perfect
*creatures*, yet so easily fell to Satan. And now, with free wills, so many refuse Jesus, but certain evil people change themselves to become smart and good enough to choose Jesus. People "created equal" making such unequal choices--how's this sound, Alan?

(2) God does not force, but *teaches* (John 6:43-45) and *renews* (Titus 3:5) people out of their evil nature so they choose what is good. So, the thanks is purely to God (Romans 6:17).
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/15/08

The Moderator is correct. I would add people like to change the Bible to suit their wishes to live in sin or to make themselves look good.
---Samuel on 7/15/08

Jerry, You miss read my answers and call it an attack, but there comes a time when everyone of us has to, for the right reason, look at the God we all have in our minds. Is this God a God of Almighty power? Is He a God who is Omnipotent, Omnipresent? and Omniscience? If that is the one you have in your mind, then you have form a God in your mind who is in Scripture. If not then you have formed a god that is not from Scripture. When I said you were still in unbelief it is about who God really is, not that you are not saved. You can be saved and not know many things about God, or very little. You want to argue the point, you not God, are the cause of your salvation. And I show you otherwise, how can that be an attack?
---Mark_V. on 7/15/08

Mark: I pointed out a contradiction in your remarks and you retort by attacking my beliefs. Does that seem normal to you? Not me. Explain YOUR contradiction please.
---jerry6593 on 7/15/08

Satan has done a good job with the church. We use the bible as a metaphor and if the bible does not line up with our sin and life we make it line up with it. Sad state of affairs.
---melanie on 7/14/08

Jerry, you fail to understand because of your bias towards works of law and keeping the Sabbath. But when I said, "if you want to be found" is for your own knowledge. Not God's. He already knows where you are going. And it was not because He saw that you would, for He made it possible that you would. He designed it that way. If He didn't give you Spiritual life, didn't give you faith, and didn't give eyes to see and ears to hear, you would be heading right to hell. The only reason a person gets on his knees and receives Christ, is because God makes it possible for them to receive Him. You are still in unbelief as to who God is. You formed one to your likeing.
---Mark_V. on 7/14/08


"But if you want to be found in the saved pile, you will commit your life to Christ by faith, with a true contrite heart, and trust in His sustaining power, and you will be assured in the saved pile."

I could not agree more!

"it is He who makes the choice, not you."

I could not DISagree more!

I doubt that you even see that your two quoted statements above are contradictory. Most Calvinists don't understand that the term translated "predestined" in the Bible actually means "foreknew." God indeed knows the future, and thus the choices I will make. But the choices I make are MINE ALONE! Else, I could blame God for my sins.
---jerry6593 on 7/14/08

Alan, you will make many choices, but what God has ordain will come to pass. I condemn you? You believe you came to Christ and that God didn't come to you first. That by your own ability you made the first move. That is a fact. You have argued that point from the beginning. I was stating a fact. You asked "How is it that you condemn others for so call works when we say we accept Christ and commit to Him?" you must have skip what I wrote. "He grants you repentance through conviction by the Spirit, to bring you to your knees and beg for mercy." Who brought you to your knee's? God. You would not have come begging unless He had given you the ability to come to Him. Without Him you are nothing just like me.
---Mark_V. on 7/13/08

Mark V ... "But if you want to be found in the saved pile, you will commit your life to Christ by faith, with a true contrite heart, and trust in His sustaining power, and you will be assured in the saved pile. You can stay in unbelief of the sustaining power of Christ if you want"

Those are YOUR words... and I agree with them.

Trouble is Mark, Wanting, committing, trusting and staying in unbelief are all things that we do or do not do. And clearly "If you want ... " means we have a choice.

Having said what you say above, how is it that you condemn others for so-called "works" when we say we accept Christ and commit to Him?
---alan_of_UK on 7/13/08

Alan, you, Jerry and many others don't get it because of your works for salvation. When I said, "if you want" it doesn't change the fact whether you are or not in one of the piles. It only assures you, not God, which pile you are in. God is Omniscience who knows all. He is also Omnipotent in that He is in control of all that exist. He, brings you to a spiritual life. He gives you faith to believe and trust Christ, He grants you repentance through conviction by the Spirit, to bring you to your knees and beg for mercy, He convicts your heart everytime you sin. If God didn't do those things you would still be Spiritually dead, a slave to sin, no saving faith, going to hell. If you haven't notice, it is He who makes the choice, not you.
---Mark_V. on 7/13/08

Mark V ... You say "But if you want to be found in the saved pile, you will commit your life to Christ by faith, with a true contrite heart, and trust in His sustaining power, and you will be assured in the saved pile. You can stay in unbelief of the sustaining power of Christ if you want. God already knows what pile you will choose, You don't"
Now this is a variancew with what you have insisted to me in the past.
You've said we have no choice, that God in his Soveriegnty, decides whether we will be saved.
Now by your words "if you want" you allow that we have free will.
---alan_of_UK on 7/13/08

Mark: You seem to imply:

(1) You're not sure which pile you're in.

(2) Anyone can be saved - even lost pilers.

(3) Even saved pilers can be lost if they don't cling to Christ.

(4) Your (and my) works have something to do with our salvation.

"commit your life to Christ by faith"
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---jerry6593 on 7/12/08

Confusion between false unity and true unity:

The true gospel is not preached, and false gospels are often preached.
People are unable to differentiate between good and evil, they call good evil and evil good.
People don't recognize the difference between magic and faith in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Christians are willing to take part in fantasy games and read occult literature without realizing the evil that operates in some of those types of thinking.

The confused think of therapy as Buddhism and occultism blended together with secular humanism along with a few people who call themselves Christians who are as tangled into those problems as the ones who call themselves pagans.
---Miriam on 7/12/08

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I'm finding anything related to emergentism is something I want to stay completely away from. False teachers are jumping on the emergent bandwagon and are willing to go over the cliff for anything emergent.

I don't know if this new form of oneness is here to stay, but I'm staying away from it.
---Peggy on 7/12/08

ALL::Not what is the spirit of Truth,but who is the spirit of Truth?
who are the false Prophets?.Good questions
The word is the TRUTH cause it is based on established Facts.Words TWISTED are not Facts therefore are false.Matt16:17-19 is Fact other denominational not affiliated are considered as False.Please, no uproar, just Reflection.Who Guides This institution by Christ another fact Acts.1:4-5 and Acts2:2-4 Matt28:19-20.Yes He even appointed special people to Preach His word.This then is the truth which Must be told.Its yours to take to keep or Break,But remember its the TRUTH.
---Emcee on 7/12/08

Jerry, you are funny but so far off. Listen to my words. knowing the difference between "attrition" and "Contrition" should be very important to everyone. It gives me assurance of my salvation. God already knew what pile I would be in, but I didn't know. What pile do you want to be found at? If you want to be found in the unsaved pile then you don't have to do anything. Just continue to be you, funny. But if you want to be found in the saved pile, you will commit your life to Christ by faith, with a true contrite heart, and trust in His sustaining power, and you will be assured in the saved pile. You can stay in unbelief of the sustaining power of Christ if you want. God already knows what pile you will choose, You don't.
---Mark_V. on 7/12/08

Mark: What do you care about contrition? As a "saved pile" predestinationalist, you can't be lost, can you?
---jerry6593 on 7/12/08

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Mima, I too disagree with your statement. I believe the quote Nana gave is true. I believe Arthur Pink explained it very well. Just calling the name of the Lord does not make someone save. That would mean anyone, who is lost would just say those words and be saved without repenting. Saying them and believing with a contrite heart are two different things. Many have attrition. Attrition involves remorse cause by fear of punishment or a lose of blessings. This is the kind of repentance Esau exhibited. He was sorry not because he sinned, but because he had lost his birthright. Contrition is true godly repentance. It includes a deep remorse for having offended God. He confesses his sins with no attempt to excuse it or justify it.
---Mark_V. on 7/11/08

I got the quote from "Present Day Evangelism" by Arthur W. Pink
You can find it by googling for it. I like what you said here on 7/7/08 and elsewhere about the "stop signs" which is like the commandments, as it were "stop sins", which in themselves do not stop a man from violating them but they define some good limits to righteous and holy living, boundaries.
---Nana on 7/11/08

Nana: Nice quote! I've noted that some here, while insisting that they are "saved," seem to cling to pet sins and dismiss God's Ten Commandment Law as obsolete.
---jerry6593 on 7/10/08

The truth is the truth. Plain and simple. Jesus knows the truth. Nothing can fool Him. Other than that is a lie. Jesus says there is no in-between. Either it's a yes or a no. Either it's the truth or a lie. Us Christians should go by faith and not by sight. Faith is the substance of thing not seen.
---antoa7855 on 7/8/08

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"And do you imagine that the Gospel is magnified or God glorified by going to worldlings and telling them that they may be saved at this moment by simply accepting Christ as their personal Savior while they are wedded to their idols and their hearts are still in love with sin? If I do so, I tell them a lie, pervert the Gospel, insult Christ, and turn the grace of God into lasciviousness." AW Pink
---Nana on 7/8/08

Todd & Alan: Saving belief (faith) is indeed more than mere intellectual assent. It involves a fundamental core conviction that modifies and governs outward behavior (works) in a manner consistent with biblical principles. It is generally not instantaneous, but grows deeper with the passage of time by a close, abiding relationship with God. It is not blind, but is built on the evidences (Heb 11:1) experienced in that relationship.
---jerry6593 on 7/7/08

The objective truth is that true, sincere devotion is not simply a "faith", it is a LOVE for "Abba Father" (Ephesians 2:15). Hebrews 11:6 specifies two types of faith...

1) believing that God exists.

2) believing and trusting in His loving kindness (LOVING Him, not mere faith in Him).

Hebrews 11:6 "...For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists AND that he rewards those who seek him".

" for faith" (Romans 1:17).

James 4:8 "Draw near to God [because you LOVE Him] and he will draw near to you".

"So faith, hope, love..." (1 Corinthians 13:13, which one is GREATEST?).
---more_excellent_way on 7/6/08

I think it is fairly clear that there is a difference between "beleiving in" and "beleiving that"
---alan_of_UK on 7/2/08

Nice point.

There is a difference. Even the demons know Jesus is the Son of God. But, they are still in Hell.
---Nicole on 7/3/08

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And yet, that is not always the case:

Matthew 7:22-23:
"22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

There will be many who CLAIM Jesus as Lord, but he will say he never knew them.
---StrongAxe on 7/3/08

Nothing in scripture is of random occurence/happenstance. God made sure all events happened as they should and that the words would be recorded so that someday we could learn from them if we choose. He had Pilate refer to humanity's preference for subjective truth in John 18:38 ("What is truth?") and let us know the answer in John 14:6. The "strong delusion" is NOT a future event (2 Thessalonians 2:10). After learning the "word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 1:13)....the INTRODUCTORY doctrine of Jesus (Hebrews 6:1), we should learn the "sword of the spirit" (Ephesians 6:17) and have our conscience purified also (Hebrews 9:14).
---more_excellent_way on 7/3/08

Excellent Reasoning James on 30/6 Jn14:26 and in a like manner when Jesus is teaching it is about "MY Church" as in Matt16:17-19 ONE Flock one where do we get this false doctrine of "Body of Believers"believing what in whose name.Oh Ye of little Faith-"a voice of ONE in the wilderness make straight the ways of the lord"The truth imust be told.
---Emcee on 7/2/08

I think it is fairly clear that there is a difference between "beleiving in" and "beleiving that"
---alan_of_UK on 7/2/08

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Mima, I think it's the same thing as John 3:16 saying "whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.", but James 2:19 says "Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

So Jn 3:16's "believe" must imply more than to intellectually acknowledge the existence of Christ. Meaning a belief that produces repentence and obedience.

I think it's the same with "whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

To "call on the name of the Lord" must imply more than making sounds with your vocal chords. After all, many will say "Lord Lord"...and He will answer "I never knew you."
---Todd1 on 7/1/08

It is my contention that if you hear a person call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ then you, the hearer, can proclaim that person saved. I say this because three times in the Bible it says this" For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Is this contention wrong?
---Mima on 7/1/08

robinz: You make almost a good point, but only God can truly judge motives. He has, however given us the charge to be fruit inspectors. "By their fruits, ye shall know them."
---jerry6593 on 7/1/08

It also has a lot to do with unbelieving believers. You put them, and all the false preachers together and the world is confused. Keep in mind that even believers are not going to agree on everything, because none of us, I suppose has it 100%. Hypocrites, pretenders of Christianity, are making a joke out of the trues.
---catherine on 6/30/08

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Here is one way to detect false doctrines. Look at the motive... or look at who it glorifies... If the motive is selfish, or if the action glorifies man (the creature) instead of God(the creator), it is of Satan.
---robinz on 6/30/08

John 14:26 is the verse where this is found. Here is what I find interesting with this: First, Jesus was ONLY speaking to His own 12 disciples. Second, this verse must be only for the 12 disciples since the last part says that the Holy Spirit will cause THEM (12 only) to remember what Jesus said. Third, in John 15:15 Jesus told ONLY the 12 that He is now calling them friends AND that EVERYTHING He learned from the Father, He made it known to them--ONLY! So, to say that the Holy Spirit lead US into all truth MUST then mean we will find this ALL truth from studying what the eyewitnesses wrote--ONLY!
---james on 6/30/08

How right you are Jerry ... I suspect that ALL of us, and I include myself for certain, and perhaps you as well, are like that.
---alan_of_UK on 6/30/08

"Contradictory truths" is an oxymoron. There are many flavors of error, but only one truth. The problem is that most people are not interested in the truth, but rather in a confirmation of their preconceived beliefs. Pity!
---jerry6593 on 6/30/08

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MAN IS AT FAULT,He seeks God his way not Gods way.God created and gave us ONE His church Man with the delusions of Satan created many denominstions.steering man away from GOD.The truth must be told .Man has to change NOT GOD.
---Emcee on 6/20/08

Conflict can be because ones hold to things the Bibe says, without knowing what they mean. And one's misunderstanding contradicts someone else's (o: Example >

Ones know we are not saved by "works" (Ephesians 2:9), b-u-t > James clearly does say, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) But his examples are works of LOVE > personally assisting a needy person (14-17), putting God first (18-24), and helping God's laborers (25-26). While we do things in God's love, this love justifies us (makes us right, just, like His is), so that > "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17)
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/20/08

Because of:
a. People not questioning what they are told. Acts 17:11
b. The lack of familiarity with God's word
c. The blind leading the blind I Tim 1:7
d. The false teachers who are gathering to them selves a following for glory or money or both Romans 16:17,18
e. People would rather hear what is convenient - itching ears II Tim 4:3
f. Teachers who have their own agenda Eph 4:14
g. People have a seared conscience I Tim 4:1

etc, etc
---Bruce5656 on 6/20/08

It is mostly due to folks listening to man instead of the Holy Ghost.
---Linda_Smith on 5/6/07

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and AMEN linda, you hit it right on. many rely on teachers only and not check with their own bibles if what they're being taught equals with it. we also have so many different bibles and most are full of errors and with missing whole texts.
---jana on 9/11/06

The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. True born-again believers cannot commit this sin. Only those people who the Holy Spirit doe not indwell can commit it.
---taylor on 10/29/05

Patti: The way you asked your question, leads me to believe that you're just as aware as I am that 'relativism' as you call it entered many churches quite some time back! One of the main reasons for this is abandonment by many of the principle that there is only ONE correct interpretation of any Biblical passage; though there may be many *applications* of it to our lives! God NEVER asked us to leave our minds at the door when examining Scripture!
---Daniel on 10/29/05

Please refer to the "Unpardonable Sin" blog for my answer.
---Bruce5656 on 10/7/05

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bruce, you never told us your position on the "unpardonable sin". what is it?
---James on 10/7/05

If you read the Blog "What is the unpardonable sin" posted on 8/23/05 you will see a classic example of something that, while defined clearly and specificly in scripture, yeilds a host of answers that have nothing to do with the scriptural meaning but rather what people have been taught or what people think.

No wonder, there are so many "points of view" when people will not take the time to simply read the bible for themselves.
---Bruce5656 on 10/4/05

Sometimes certain points may appear to contradict when in fact all that's involved are different levels of understanding. Ephesians 3:10 speaks of the manifold wisdom of God. The word "manifold" means many-sided or diverse.

The Bible contains elementary truths & more mature truths (Hebrews 5:11-6:3). These truths don't contradict but the latter involves a deeper understanding. We all interpret the Bible according to our own limited knowledge and understanding of Scriptural truths.
---DoryLory on 10/1/05

What set Simon apart from the other disciples in Matthew 16:17, was the fact that he had received a revelation from God. The others knew truth, but Simon had received a deeper truth.

"I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better." (Ephesians 1:17)
---DoryLory on 10/1/05

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Scripture never contradicts itself. Any genuine Scriptural truth must be in the Bible in two or three different places. If you come across a seeming contradiction, and both points are solidly supported by several other Bible passages, then it may be a matter of simply comparing a basic truth with a more mature, deeper truth.
---DoryLory on 10/1/05

In the past I've given a number of seminars to military people, using the Bible as my base for the subject presented. One question that is always asked is, "Why are things explained different in various places where we have been stationed?" Answer, because there is a tendency to mixed cultural mores with Biblical facts. (Mores, while good, may only be good for that culture.) You also have both biblical igorance and false teachers who teach the Bible out of its real meaning.
---WIVV on 10/1/05

Patti : In my humble opinion it is each individuals discernment of the scriptures based on ones free will.One needs a shepherd to watch the flock & that is why we are asked to follow HIM.
---Emcee on 10/1/05

some denominations use one verse of scripture to support their beliefs, but mostly it is not rightly dividing the Word of God. Many take verses out of context and like moderator says it is false teachers and prophets.
---shira_5965 on 10/1/05

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Sister Patti, since the time of the churches in Scripture man has done almost everything possible to use Scripture for power, control, and just to pull many away from Christ. So long as there is sin in the world you will continue to see more of man's ideas. Bruce explained many of the reasons. Don't be alarm, God is in control of His creation and what He proposes He will finish. No man can frustrate His counsel. He will accomplish what He planned.
---Lupe2618 on 10/1/05

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