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Do Sinners Go To Heaven

I am a born again christian who lives for God. I feel convicted by the Spirit that the once saved always saved doctrine is a satanic way of giving birth to lukewarm, lazy and sin-filled christians. After all, we all go to heaven saint or sinner! Won't we?

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 ---ben on 10/12/05
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alan, the real born-again Christian life is the glory of Christ. "One thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see." John 9:25. Jesus says of us whom are his: "In that which day you all will know, because I in the Father of me, and you all in me, and I in you. I am glorified in them. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. And the glory which you gave me I have given them. And that the world may know that you have loved them, as you have loved me. John 14:20+ 17:10,16,22,23.
---Eloy on 8/6/08

have you seen the latest news from Mars? There have discovered turkies running around, and so is the false teaching that we can lose our salvation. Do you really think that if you are saved you are going to hate God so much that He takes away your salvation? When saved you may make mistakes but your love of God is such that you are dear to Him and He is dear to you. How can we be born again and not love God. We have His Spirit and His smile. It is eternal love that we have, not a human love. You cannot stop loving God and He cannot stop loving you. We are one with God and cannot loose His grip upon our lives, after all it is His grip not ours that holds us and His love that gives us to love Him back.
---Alan on 8/5/08

Count yourselves dead to sin. Repentance of sin wont do it. Turn to the Cross and you will be made perfect in Gods sight. We overcome sin through HIM alone.
---duane on 8/4/08

There is only one sin that will keep you from heaven..Unbelief in HIM...WE ARE SAVED THROUGH FAITH, the rest is by the grace of God.
---duane on 8/4/08

#1 God can't look upon sin, that is why He turned His back on His own Son on the Cross,Jesus was made sin for us. God knew that He was going to have many sons born unto Himself by the death of His son, so He had to be able to embrace His own children. He truned His back once on His own Beloved Son and He did not want to have to turn His back ever again. He knew that His sons were still dealing with the body of flesh and that sin dwells in the flesh, therefore, He created in them a New Creation that is totally sinless, it is holy and that is what He looks upon. He does not even see our sinful deeds in the flesh.
---Debbie_Jo on 8/4/08

4. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteouness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." In 1 John 1:8 John knew there were false teachers in the church. Not only did the false teachers walk in darkness (sin v. 6) but went so far as to deny totally the existence of a sin nature in thier lives.
---Lupe2618 on 8/4/08

I accepted Jesus as my Savior,his blood covered my sin,past present and future.I am now filled with the Holy Spirit and it lets me know when i am getting ready to sin or have sinned, then i must confess that sin to God, only to admit i was wrong, God already knows,my flesh/satan will continue to temp me until the minute i leave it. i am a sinner, i am going to Heaven,when i am taken from this flesh i will get a new sinless body. if this body where perfect now, why would i need Jesus as my mediator?
---KEnt on 8/19/07

I don't pursue sin,but because we are satan influenced flesh, it happens, we turn from our old ways through repentance but it does not mean we can remain sin free, it is impossible, anyone who thinks they can become sinless are placing themselves on the left hand of God. not going to happen in this flesh.
Peace be with you
---KEnt on 8/19/07

Those that walk in the Spirit(don't walk after the flesh), are not under the law, the law is for the disobedient(those who walk after the flesh) (1 Timothy 1:1-11). Christ came as the fulfillment of the Law, gave us His Sayings,a new and living way ,we are required to live by those Sayings, or else we are not even worthy of Him. False doctrine says: living by Christ Sayings or Not, won't affect ones salvation, That's a lie of the devil. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/18/07

(Jude 1:18-21).
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/18/07

Accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior IS the ONLY way to get to heaven. Repent of your sin - God is looking for a church that is spotless & clean.
---Leslie on 12/31/06

No, sin isn't allowed in Heaven thats why Jesus came to shed His Divine Blood for us to cleanse us of our sins, and to give us overcoming power over the temptation to sin. Many people are not going to make it to Heaven because they refuse to accept that the sinning has to stop, even a child could understand this.
---Mrs._Morgan on 7/31/06

Forgiven sinners (the saved)go to heaven-- unforgiven sinners(the lost) go to hell---mima 11/8/2005
---mima on 11/9/05

"But I cannot see that our self crucifixion can be said to be equal to Christ's crucifixion"

It's not. Hanging self was how Judas betrayed Jesus. That is why we believe His crucifixion was the crucifixion of who we were in Adam.
---Lynn on 10/30/05

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

I don't know about anyone else, but I am sealed with the Holy Spirit, and bound for heaven.
---Madison on 10/30/05

Eloy .. I have no trouble with you crucifying yourself daily ... we should as you say all do this..
But I cannot see that our self crucifixion can be said to be equal to Christ's crucifixion. He suffered physical and spiritual torment for hours and then died, carrying the sins of the whole of mankind.
That is something quite beyond what we have to suffer, in our own self crucifixion or in any circumstances.
You say you have suffered more than Christ. I don't think you have
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/30/05

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Eloy, one question, "do you believe you are glorified already?" it seems to me that is what you are trying to say. I understand all you wrote down and have for a long time and your Scriptures are correct but your understanding as to your state now while walking the Christian life sounds like they have been perfected already.
---Lupe2618a on 10/30/05

Alan, i am born-again: "I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. This knowing, that of us the old man was with crucifixion, in order that might be annulled the body which sin, now no longer us be servants which sin." Galatians 2:20; Romans 6:6.
---Eloy on 10/28/05

Eloy ... if you reckon to emulate Christ's crucifixion each day, you are doing it in vain.
Christ's sacrifice was for all time, He said "It is finished"
When you say you crucify yourself, you are not crucifying yourself in the way that Christ was crucified, carrying the world's whole sin.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/27/05

Alan, because everyday and every moment of every day i use this gift of freewill to crucify my life, and to live the life of Christ. Daily we each must choose whose will will we do, will we serve Christ, or will we serve myself. In the garden Jesus prayed about the crucifixon, "And He said, Papa, Father, all things possible to you; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what you will." So Alan, may i ask you, whose will do you do every day?
---Eloy on 10/27/05

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The problem with the Gospel as it is taught today is that it is watered down. People teach that if you walk an aisle and say a prayer that you are saved and that is it Eloy is right it is an everyday thing it isn't just that day when you were saved. It is every morning when you wake up saying "God here am I send me". It is so much more than going to church on Sunday.
---Kaleo on 10/27/05

When we take up our cross daily, we take up only the load that Christ places on it.
When Christ was crucified, He carried the sins of the whole world, every single one. He does not ask us to do it, because there is no need, as He has already borne them.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/27/05

Does not the Bible tell us to take up our cross daily? Is that the same thing as crucifying ourselves daily?
---taylor on 10/27/05

Eloy ... if you say "When we are truly born-again, our old Adamic nature is crucified; and our now dead life is replaced by the new resurrected Christ nature", why is it that you crucify yourself daily?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/27/05

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Emcee, When we are truly born-again, our old Adamic nature is crucified; and our now dead life is replaced by the new resurrected Christ nature. He takes away the stony heart, and gives us a new heart of flesh. The natural man is earthy and carnal, but the born-again man is made heavenly and sinless, even as the life of Christ is holy and sinless. Temptation comes, indeed even to Christ, but temptation has no power over the righteous, for Christ is in us and we serve God, and are not the servants of sin.
---Eloy on 10/27/05

c) 1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the shall sound, and the dead shall be raise incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
I believe this is when we will no longer have the sin nature that we got from Adam.
---Ulrika on 10/26/05

b) 1Corinthians 15:48b and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
---Ulrika on 10/26/05

a) We Shall be changed.
1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead, It is sown in corruption: it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour: it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritul body . There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy , such are they also that are earth: continued
---Ulrika on 10/26/05

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Eloy::Your claim to being crucified in Christ by Faith makes you sinless,I see your point but the manner in which you put it seemed to all, that you suffered equally with christ & this was misleading .However we are still human & even if by Faith we are sinless then we are only dead to sin but can still succumb to temptation in thought word & deed is that true?Life is an on going fact till we die.
---Emcee on 10/26/05

Thanks Alan. I used to wonder what the word justified meant but someone told me a year or two ago that it meant 'just as if we'd never sinned'. This seems to be in line with what you say - ' Christs blood changes us in God's eyes to having no sin'.
---M.P. on 10/26/05

MP ... I quite agree with you!
How judgemental to say that the unsaved are sinners, whereas the saved are not sinners. Of course we are! We sin therefore we are sinners.
The non-Christian must think how hypocritical we are for saying we are not sinners, when they can see quite plainly that we sin in many ways.
Also to deny we are sinners says we are better than the unsaved, becasue we call them siners. But we are no better ... only Christs blood changes us in God's eyes to having no sin
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/26/05

Perhaps, to avoid confusion, we should refer to unsaved people as exactly that and not as sinners. We know that they are sinners, but so are we and I feel that we are not always all on the same wavelength where this word is used.
---M.P. on 10/26/05

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Alan, my defiinition of a sinner is one who isn't saved. Even though those of us who are born-again do continue to sin because we haven't yet received our perfect bodies, we are redeemed. Made new in Christ Jesus. to live for all eternity.
---craig on 10/26/05

Alan, unless you are born-again, you will not see the kingdom of heaven, nor will you understand what it is to be crucified with Christ: for every true born-again Christian receives the life of Christ, including crucifixion. "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Please read Romans 6:6-11.
---Eloy on 10/26/05

Craig ... do you expect to go to heaven? I am sure you do.
How then do yuo reconcile these two statements:
"Who says sinners go to heaven? Not my Bible!" and
"Of course we always sin, saved or not"
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/25/05

To Alan of U.K.

Of course we always sin, saved or not. Like Paul said in the Bible: "I do what I should not do. And what I should do, I do not do. Oh wretched man am I !" Until we receive our perfect glorified bodies we will always sin.
---craig on 10/25/05

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Eloy ... Sorry if I misunderstood yuor meaning. Yes we are to take up our cross and follow Him each day.

When you said you crucified yourself daily, I thought you meant you crucified yourself in the way that Jesus was crucified that is being nailed to the cross and sufferning a terrible death, being innocent, and carrying the sins of the whole world.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/25/05

Rebecca, Emcee, Alan, Daily, every day we chooses to live for Christ and follow him, or not. If you love him you will deny yourself and take up your cross and follow him, else you cannot be his disciple. please read the passages i cited previously.
---Eloy on 10/25/05

Eloy, are you talking about Galatians 2:16-20? Paul is saying man is not justified by the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.
We are justified. Romans 3:22-28 \ 5:1
We are sanctified. 1Corinthians 1:2 \ 6:11
I believe it depends on if we live by the Spirit or live by the flesh determins what kind of life we live. The flesh wars against the Spirit. We have to decide who we want to serve. We do still sin, but we should not be servants to sin. 1John 7-10
---Ulrika on 10/24/05

Craig ... do you believe that once saved, you cannot sin?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/24/05

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4. I cannot change him or make him see what I see or what I feel. He is responsible for himself and not to me. I still love him no matter what he says. I know he loves the Lord so I sure don't and will never question his faith. What happened is that he exposed what was in his heart to everyone. All we can do is love him like a brother and show him who we are. God is in the process of changing hearts and melting them. Eloy can write again and condemn me again if he so pleases, God will still love him.
---Lupe2618 on 10/24/05

3. I have noticed that many want to preach and save too. I know cause I see that everyday. I know for a fact I don't save anyone. We carry Christ with us through the Truth, and we share the Truth to others. God has given us His love and we just love to share it with others through His Word. That is who we are. Children of pomise. Our focus now has become Eloy, because of what he stated. I felt the same way when I heard the words. But I told him I loved him. He refused my love.
---Lupe2618 on 10/24/05

2. Jesus commanded us to preach the gospel, not to save lives. The lukewarm Christians are not my business, I cannot change them or move them to believe more. God is in the business of saving lives. He changes the hearts of others not me. All I can do is teach the truth. But my heart feels for others so I pray for them that God will do His will in their lives. My control is limited but not God's. I have no control in someone's live other then to bring the good news. To equip others and God takes over.
---Lupe2618 on 10/24/05

Brother Emcee, I thank you for your answer and what you said of my faith. I can only believe because that is what I live by. I have no other way of doing things but what God has taught me. I don't ever say I am without sin but do acknowledge I do need God to help me through my life. If for some reason I stopped depending on God all I would do is run into more sin and more consequences in my life. But now the Spirit of God testifies to my spirit that I am a child of God.
---Lupe2618 on 10/24/05

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Who says sinners go to heaven? Not my Bible!You MUST be born-again. Without Jesus one is doomed for all eternity. Be careful how you interpret what you read in the Bible. Don't lean on your own understanding, and test all voices. It may not be God speaking to you.
---craig on 10/24/05

Where in the Bible does it say you can lose your salvation? Other than the sin against the Holy Spirit, every sin repented for is forgiven. Once we belong to God nothing and no one, not even satan can snatch us away.
---clark on 10/24/05

Ain't it funny reading these blogs. Like Eloy says, you can see the hearts of men by what comes out of the mouth. Reading the replys from Eloy and others reminds me of Luke 18:10-14. This is about the Pharisee and Publican who went to pray. Be careful of thy boasting, Pride and exaulting of thyself Eloy. The greatest teachers listens, evaluates, and then speaks with an informed knowledge. Just like the people at Berea, Acts 17:11.
---Jerry on 10/24/05

Eloy ... Christ was crucified for us once and for all ... for our past present and future sins.
There is no need for yuo you to crucify yourself.
As Jesus said "It is finished"
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/24/05

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Eloy::I have heard this claim from your mouth on several occasions & The only conclusion I can come to is that you have an imaginative mind bordering on blasphemy :You need to reevaluate your self when you equate yourself with Almighty God _surely you Jest when you say you crucify yourself daily & the resurrected Christ is in you.
---Emcee on 10/23/05

Eloy: You don't understand. Jesus carried all the sins upon his back. He was beaten until he wasn't reconigized by his strips we are healed. He not only suffered physical pain, but spiritual pain as well. his followers and "friends" turn away from him, he thought his Father, God Almighty turned his back on him. We have not went through nothing compared to Jesus. Another thing Eloy: you say in one paragraph that you don't sin, and in another paragraph, you say your crucified daily? Which is it?
---Rebecca_D on 10/23/05

Pierre, I understand that passage the same way. My church had a revival at the beginning of the month; one of the messages the guest preacher gave was about that verse and that's the way he explained it , as well.
---Heather on 10/23/05

Heather and Alan, i crucify myself daily, and the resurrected Christ himself lives in me and i in him, and he also lives in every true born-again Christian. Please read Luke 14:26,27; Galatians 2:20.
---Eloy on 10/23/05

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And yet another look:
5 wise virgins
5 foolish virgins
A voice crying, "Behold the Bridegroom cometh."

The Spirit and the Bride say, "Come." I don't want to be either a wise or a foolish virgin. I want to be the Bride.
---Deborah on 10/23/05

Rno: You need to take another look at the story
of the 10 virgins.
My take is that they were all very good Christians waiting for the groom to come.
The only difference between them is that 5 had no oil in their lamps and when the groom came they were not ready. What does it mean?
They had no FAITH! but counted on themselves to be saved. As a result they fell asleep and missed the wedding feast (the Lord's return).
---Pierre on 10/23/05

Ron ... You make it seem that it will be a matter of luck. If we are in the act of sin (anger, judgmentalism ,as sometimes on here, or what ever) at the actual moment would mean we are doomed ... a moment earlier or later, and we would be saved because that would be before or after the sin.
God would surely not operate thus?
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/23/05

Eloy : You sound like a second Christ, if you are carrying the sins of the world, as He did.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/23/05

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I don't believe that a Christian can be saved if he or she is in Backslidding mode and WON'T REPENT If the Bridegroom comes when we are sinning do you really think He will take us up to be with Him in the rapture...If this is so..then that parable of the 10 Virgins is a lie
5 Wise 5 foolish= 50% are foolish and are screwing around doing worldly things , the others are seeking GOD's face all the time...Which BRIDES do you think Jesus will take up to be with Him in the Rapture,???
Regards Ron7949
---Ron on 10/23/05

Look, Eloy, any debate you receive re: your answers is your own doing. However, I'm sorry you took my comments as my crucifying you; I was doing nothing of the sort.
---Heather on 10/22/05

Alan and Heather, Thank you for your compliments. i am crucified daily, but you are free to believe whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 10/22/05

Eloy, you're wrong. No, Jesus was never sexually abused, and there may have been no broken bones, but you've missed major points. His face was so destroyed His mother didn't recognize Him. What truly makes His suffering worse than anything any of us (including you) could ever endure is the fact that HE NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG-HE WAS COMPLETELY INNOCENT. He voluntarily took all that abuse so we would never have to. Saying you've suffered worse than that is supreme arrogance.
---Heather on 10/22/05

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Lupe This question asked by Nicodemus, when he was not a christian, Jesus was telling him to believe in HIM the one who had come from heaven, follow in his way & his teachings.But those who do what is true come to the light,so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God-J3V21--I believe Lupe that is why I write.
---Emcee on 10/22/05

Lupe::I do not doubt the verasity of your statement & the sincerity of the claim.I know you to be a good man an emissary of Jesus.We are not talking about our selves.We are dealing with a doctrine that has the potential to be misleading especially to people who are lukewarm innocent people who dont have the concept to evaluate the danger of the B/A-OSAS theory.This is satans way of entrapment could you see the possibility. True Jesus died for our sins but where in the bible does it say OSAS J3v3
---Emcee on 10/22/05

Emcee, if we have faith and believe in the promises of God we will change. You have to believe first Emcee. With it, comes the promises of God. We are children of promise Emcee, when we believe. God tells us, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh" none believers. And He also say, "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit". We are born of the Spirit Emcee.
---Lupe2618 on 10/22/05

Eloy, I don't doubt that you suffer and have suffered physically and emotionally. Does it help to alleviate the pain knowing and saying this? "i said that i have suffered morn than Jacob, Job, and Jesus altogether." Does this way of looking at your life help you? Maybe you should count your blessings. It would give you a brighter attitude.
---Ulrika on 10/22/05

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Eloy ... you say that experience is reality ... OK so you know how you have suffered, because you experienced it.
But how can you in all honesty say that you know how Jesus suffered? Did you experience THAT?
Does it take both Rebecca and me to point out that Jesus suffered much more than the physical pain, which is all you seem to be cnsidering.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/22/05

Rebecca, will you believe that i write the truth, or will you doubt? Scripture reads that Jesus died at a very young age, and many have suffered more horribly than him. Scripture says that he never even had a broken bone, but the two people crucified beside him had their bones broken, nor did he ever have to battle any fatal disease, and he was never sexually molested, etc, etc.
---Eloy on 10/22/05

Rebecca, you do not know what i know.
---Eloy on 10/22/05

Alan, experience is reality.
---Eloy on 10/22/05

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Ulrika::There are a lot of good people on this C/net.Examine Bens question it is more a taunt followed by a question,which you and I know the answer is absurd. People with sin on their souls will never see the gates of heaven leave alone enter because we know Almighty GOD detests sin.
---Emcee on 10/21/05

Eloy: You don't know anyone's heart but your own. Many people have suffered more than Jesus? While Jesus was carrying the cross to Golgotha's hill, he was carrying our sins. Remember Jesus suffered before we did, he went through it ALL so he would know how we feel.So I don't see how anyone can suffer more than him. Ps 22:1,13,16,18, Isa 53:7-12, Jn 11:50, Gal 1:4. If you have suffered more than Jesus then you would know how everyone feels all the time.
---Rebecca_D on 10/21/05

Eloy ... As you say it is the truth, presumably God has told you that you have suffered more than Jesus.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/21/05

Alan and Lupe, thank you for your compliments. Your free to believe whatever you desire. And as for me, i will believe only the truth.
---Eloy on 10/21/05

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Emcee, I don't agree with what Ben said. I took the time to look up the verses, to show why I believe that I can not loose my salvation. That does not make me lazy. It also does not mean I am perfect. It means I trust in God's promises.
---Ulrika on 10/20/05

3. Because as Christians our dependence is on God everyday till we die. We have to believe that with our hearts because He told us so. If it depended on me, I would fail over and over. Oh how we need Him. That is what I try my best to teach, that God is sovereign and things work His way and not mine. My life depends on Him.
---Lupe2618 on 10/20/05

2. Although a Christian must continueally acknowledge and confess sin, he is not powerless aginst it. Fulfilling the duty of confession does not give license to sin. Sin can and should be conquered through the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 6:12-14;8:12,13; 1 Cor. 15:34; Titus 2:11,12; 1 Peter 1:13-16, because we now have an Advocate, Jesus Christ to speak in our behave. That is why I don't believe someone that is save loses his salvation.
---Lupe2618 on 10/20/05

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