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Church Using Worldly Methods

A Christian publication that I read recently printed an article called "Stained Glass to Starbucks". It dealt with ever changing methods of soul - winning. But, My question is.. Is the Church trying to imitate the world in order to "save" people, and will this method work?

Moderator - Yes, the Church is using more and more worldly methods to "attempt" to grow Church membership and winning them to Christ becomes secondary. This has sprung out of the Seeker Friendly movement. Spurgeon over 100 hundred years ago had the same problem to deal with when he wrote a sermon titled "FEEDING SHEEP OR AMUSING GOATS".

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 ---mike on 11/16/05
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It's not THE WORLD who has made us victims.

Every time we rather be NASTY, lazy, impatient, play head games on someone and manipulate someone to do what we want, be nosy busybodies and find a reason to judge, criticize, ridicule, or mock what is good, or justify what is actually wrong (thinking of it as "NAUGHTY") and impose shame, guilt, humiliation, or intimidation on the other person, WE ARE THE WORLD that rather have UNTRUTH.
---greg on 3/21/08

We, the human race (SIXTH day creation) have always chosen to replace God's three gifts of grace to humanity...
1) Father (creation)
2) Son (salvation)
3) God's spirit (Godly teaching)

with our own (6th day creation) wisdom/rituals/protocols.

and we refused to love the truth (2 Thess. 2 "strong delusion" doctrines of the heart, Ezekiel 14:4-8 in the KJV (KJV correctly translates the word "according").
---greg on 3/21/08

The world should never influence the church. I f any wordly tactics are used there will be much corruption,evil and confusion. It should be the other way around--always. God's word is enduring,life-giving and has saving power all on its own. Does not need the world or any wordly tactics to be effective. I pray our pastors and leaders and all christians all over the world,know this.He is our all- powerful and mighty God.God forbid if we ever need anything other than Jesus Christ,Our Lord.
---Robyn on 3/20/08

If a new method works, then that is great. God can use anything or anyone. The motives sound fine..bringing others to Christ. So long as it doesn't compromise the gospel. When you go fishing you use the best equipment to find the fish. Same principles apply. Fish to catch the most fish! I think we all need to get a fresh glimpse of the fact that lost people WILL go to hell. Wouldn't you therefore use any means to bring them to Christ?

Moderator - At issue, is that frequently the focus is shifted to growing membership first and then salvations second. The problem is that discipleship rarely follows.
---Chris on 3/19/08

It is a very fine line that we tread. If the world has methods that work which can be implemented by the church without compromising the truth then that should be fine (the founder of the Salvation Army said "Why let the devil have all the best tunes") but when things start being introduced into churches that are best left outside the door we are compromising and that will not get in genuine seekers who are hungry for God. Quality over quantity - let's not just become another 'club'.

Moderator - Well said.
---M.P. on 3/31/07

Linda, my pleasure. You are a blessing also. God bless you.
---Eloy on 5/28/06

Jesus wrote in his word over 2000 years ago that there will come a day that they will "Heap to themselves teachers having itching ears"...
People want to hear what sounds good to them..We have a lot of Itching Ear teaching and Preaching going on...
---larry on 5/28/06

"I don't think that the power of the gospel needs man's ploys to convince the lost to get saved."

Thank you, Eloy.
---Linda6563 on 5/28/06

Preaching is God's plan for spreading the gospel. 1 Corinthians 1:17-21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucifed. Jesus reached people by preaching and healing. Luke 3:3 \ 8:1 Later when Jesus breathed on the deciples, they also received power to preach and heal. John 20:22 Luke 9:2
---Ulrika on 5/28/06

Yes! We are in the world so we must "act" as the world does to be able to win friends to Christ. Even in church, the music is no different from what you hear outside. I guess it is done so not to alienate people.

This method would work if there is a serious follow up and bible study. If none, then the church would just be a concert place for budding Christian musicians. And the friends and souls to be won to Christ would just be the audience.
---raine on 5/28/06

Protestants today imatate, and do not inovate. Christianity used to be the basis, the cultural mooring of America. In Alex De Toquville's "Democracy in America"-1930 he wrote that Americas power was not goverment, but the nations church's. He wrote we would move from a Puriten republic to a selfish democracy, and thats what has happened. Christianity is molded to the culture, an ad campaign, a TV special, marketed for the MTV generation, shallow, religious nihilism.
---MikeM on 5/28/06

This reminds me of a Christian girl I first met at a young group's church revival, afterwards on the college campus we were witnessing to others, and she used fear, she instilled great fear of hell in order to get a person saved. I told her that that was not proper to scare people into heaven, she reasoned that it was ok as long as it works. But it is not alright, the end does not always justify the means. I don't think that the power of the gospel needs man's ploys to convince the lost to get saved.
---Eloy on 5/27/06

The mod is correct. The church is for edification and is not for amusement. If they arent Bible based, I wouldnt bother going. I dont have a problem with forming various Christian groups for fellowship, but it does not belong as church functions. By changing the church you are sending a message that you can have your cake and eat it too, which I dont think we want to decieve people. -Chris
---tofurabby on 5/27/06

As seeker friendly are we simply winning souls without any follow up? The Great Commission does not say to simply "go and convert as many people as you can." No, it says, make DISCIPLES of all men. In order to be a disciple you need guidance, teaching a community of faith to come around you. Would the money be better spent on teaching materials and programs for discipliship as opposed to light shows and coffee carts?
---Em on 4/24/06

The winning of souls is far more important than the technique that is used.A hundred years ago the piano was a bar room instument. There was great uproar about having one in the church because it was "the world". Just do what God says and get out and do it. I'm sure God will forgive you if you step over the line while winning a few.If I can amuse a goat to become a sheep then hallelujah.
---john on 12/17/05

While we should have fun socializing, there is a proper time& place. 1rst we should "seek" the kingdom of God & then "things will be added unto you".If we put Gods message first in our hearts instead of going to church to catch up on "who" did "what" in the week, maybe somebody would remember what the main Sermon was about!Note *Not ALL people are focusing on socialazation at church* ;-)
---Candice on 12/17/05

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Mike-to do it like it says in thr book means "comple" them to come in. YES? see LUKE 14:23 ---MIMA 12/15/2005
---mima on 12/16/05

In order to be the Church, to be sanctified, to be seperated and holy, to be a peculiar people, we have to do it like it says in the Book. Jesus is coming back soon to take His Church out of this world. Let us prepare by taking the world out of the Church. Say NO to secular schemes masked as evangelism.
---mike on 11/29/05

So, W.W.J.D.? Can you imagine Jesus attempting to get people's attention using slight of hand tricks, or ballet, or slide shows of Jerusalem, or long single line healings-televised with infomercials on His new book/cd/prayer cloth? I don't think so! He would (and does) do the same as He did in the N.T., faith healings and then ministry of God's word for us. As such should His churches do. Amen.
---mike_fl on 11/29/05

Many are out there on their own just looking for methods and God is not even involve. Moses had to make major adjustments in his life to join God in what He was doing. He questioned whether God could do it through him. God reveals what He is about to do. The revelation becomes an invitation to join Him. He is able to do anything He pleases with one ordinary person fully consecrated to Him.
---Lupe2618 on 11/21/05

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Bornagin is so right. When God is about to do something through us, He has to get you from where you are to where He is. He comes and tells you what He is doing. We need to join Him. He is the primary cause of all things. He works through the Holy Spirit to convict and as servents we just follow.
"Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets," Amos 3:7.
---Lupe2618 on 11/21/05

If we are "Fishers' of men" - the BAIT that we SHOULD be using is God's Holy WORD! What other bait will do, other than the Holy scriptures! Christ did NOT use TRICKS during His reign as He was teaching. Rock concerts and belly dancing will not bring the lost closer to Christ, it will only re-enforce WORLDLY CHRISTIANS.
Make sure you have the right BAIT, before you take on the roll of "FISHERS' OF MEN"!
---bornagin on 11/18/05

Some years ago I heard a missionary, who works in Brazil, telling of an unusual evangelistic tool - balloons. In the remote area she worked travel was difficult so her family attached details of their church and bible verses to tags attached to helium balloons. They had wonderful response from people who found these, some very far away YET some criticized this method as being 'frivolous'. As she said "God can use anything, even a small balloon, to reach others for Christ."
---M.A. on 11/17/05

The Holy Bible makes it very clear that it is the LORD who saves souls and adds them to the church,(Acts). It is not according to the will of the flesh, or the will of men, but the will of God, (John). It is the duty of those in leadership roles to keep the Gospel pure, which I am sorry to say they have not done and this is why the churches are inundated with worldly people today; and these do worldly things to attract more worldly people.
---brian on 11/16/05

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Truth is - the Church, the True Church, doesn't have the fun to offer a wondering soul that will compare with what the world has to offer. Got to make them see the real Truth, not change the Truth.
---mike on 11/16/05

I have not read the article you wrote about so I am unfamiliar with it, but it seems like if we are to be fishers of men, we need to use the right bait.
---Annie on 11/16/05

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