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Rude To Ask If One Is Saved

Is it rude to ask another person if they are saved?

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David, credited means IMPUTED, not to confuse with IMPARTED.

So, James compliments Paul that faith without obedience of faith ( not obedience of commandments ) is dead. James goes further in giving examples of his use of works of faith , using Rahab as an example of these works of faith, by not only believing their report, but taking it one step further and hiding the spies. Again James uses Abraham's works of faith as does the Author of Hebrews in Chapter 11. All three authors compliment one another in what WORKS OF FAITH MEAN, and not one instance of those works listed mention keeping the law. No law said , sacrifice , build an ark, lie to your town, sacrifice your child, reject Egypt etc.... these were all OBEDIENCE OF FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/20

Good question.
It all has to do with the phrase...Credited righteousness. Pauls teaches Abrahams faith, was....Credited to him as righteousness in (Romans 4).

In (James 2,14-26), James says a Faith without deeds has no value. What does James mean by this? If it has no value, it is a Faith....which is not credited as Righteousness. Notice James, used Abraham as his example too.

Like Abraham, the faith which is credited to us as Righteousness, are those deeds we do, because we believe God will keep the covenant He has made with us, like the covenant God kept with Abraham in (Genesis 17).

Credited righteousness meant, Abraham grew in Gods Grace.
---David on 11/21/20

Then how do you reconcile that with Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
---StrongAxe on 11/20/20

By reading the next verse:

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
---Ruben on 11/21/20


Then how do you reconcile that with Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
---StrongAxe on 11/20/20

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So here we see Paul clarifying the New Creature IN CHRIST.

Are you a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST? How did you come to be a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST? Does Paul EVER preach you can become a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST by works ? Or BY FAITH? You may want to study ALL OF GALATIANS for one place to see you cannot. It was because if the false teaching of WORKS that came in, they all fell from GRACE. You really don't want to insult the Spirit if Grace.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/20

David, i agree with Strongaxe that we must not leave out scriptures that clearly say other things as well. Our old man cannot perfectly keep the commandments as Romans 5 state the law was brought in that SIN WOULD ABOUND. Wow, go figure. And where sin abounded GRACE MUCH MORE ABOUNDED. AND THEN ROMANS 6-8 show us this GRACE in which we stand when we are IN CHRIST.

Everything outside the New Creation (we being a NEW CREATURE in the New creation ) is lost and hellbound,( its a 6....a 666, falling short of a perfect 7. You will never be a perfect 7 outside of Christ..EVER, no matter how much lipstick you put on. Now you are without excuse David. You have been to!d the truth and have rejected it.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/20

Paul says obedience leads to righteousness, but DOESN'T say we are saved through obedience---StrongAxe

Actually...He say just that in (Romans 2:6-10). How do you explain that?
God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile, but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
---David on 11/20/20


I have known Cluny 19 years, but am not Orthodox. We agree on some things, and disagree on others. I don't know Hanegraaff. Which views of his do I hold that differ from biblical doctrine?

NOBODY is on the right path. Paul said "We see through a glass darkly". Nobody's theology is perfect. What is important is whether our errors are minor and insignificant, or major and catastrophic.

You make assumptions about what we understand. As I said before, one must analyze ALL scripture, not one or two verses, to understand it. Paul says obedience leads to righteousness, but DOESN'T say we are saved through obedience - that is a work, and "we are saved through faith, lest anyone should boast".
---StrongAxe on 11/19/20

So funny David posts Romans 6 and has fought me tooth and nail on Romans 6 now posts a verse in Romans no one has ever discussed this with him before .

Another reason i'm done discussing with David. He has shown so much dishonesty here online its not funny. He'll say anything to squirm out of apologizing.

But an FYI David, Paul is addressing those who are now saved, being justified and have peace with God. This is our sanctification part of our salvation. Romans 5 precedes Romans 6. Learn to read in the order Paul wrote. He wasnt schitzophrenic. Are you?
---kathr4453 on 11/19/20

David has shown himself totally confused day in and out making all kind of wild accusations towards people..".your doctrine is this and that Etc"". You are a this and a that and on and on. Hopefully Strongaxe will get an apology ( I still never got mine) for David's false accusation.

Of coarse the JW's are the only true faith...bla bla bla. I know Walter Martin would say...the sign of a CULT is that THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE THE ONLY TRUE CHRISTIANS. There are plenty of those here online.

The only true believers are those who believe JESUS CHRIST IS GOD. Not God the Father , Not God the Holy Spirit, but GOD THE SON. THE SON OF GOD. Not Michael the Arch-angle either. Not a created God either.
---kathr4453 on 11/18/20

You are close friends with Cluny, so I thought you went to the same church. And you seem to have many of same views as Hank Hanegraaff...who is Eastern Orthodox. Personally I dont see that it really matters, when all the wrong paths lead to death.

When you walk in the dark, you will only see what Satan wants you to see. Look at the verse below, a verse you and Kathrine have obviously never seen in the light. Paul says it is obedience which leads to Righteousness, and disobedience/sin which leads to death.

(Romans 6:16) Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
---David on 11/19/20

David SIN is everything to do with this old creation and old man. This us why we need to put on the NEW MAN CREATED IN CHRIST.

You can't fluff up our old sin man no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig. It is dead in trespass and sin. DEAD...IN ADAM ALL DIE. period, end of discussion. In Christ will all be made ALIVE. Not to say that means universal salvation, but to say all IN CHRIST, from Adam and Eve to Noah to those TODAY who's faith was/is in promise of the messiah, are NOW THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT. HEBREWS 12:23.....AND THE CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN...AND interestingly enough WE SEE THOSE before THE LAW. You must read Romans 5 David. It's obvious you have rejected this part of the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 11/18/20


Where ever did you get the idea that "the foundation of my church is the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese"? I am not now, nor have I ever been, Greek Orthodox, or any other kind of Orthodox.
---StrongAxe on 11/18/20

The foundation of Pauls teachings are on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The foundation of your church is on the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese, who have crafted a doctrine to suit their needs. So its difficult to argue with someone like you.

Proof of what I say, which comes directly from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese.
The Orthodox Church doesnt see sin as the breaking of a rule, a violation that needs a pardon. Instead, it sees sin as sickness that needs healing.

How does the Bible view sin?
(1 John 3:4-5) Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.
Is a pardon needed?
It is according to (1 John 1:9).
---David on 11/18/20

THIS IS the Gospel that was preached in Acts 8:25. Acts 1:3 testify to His resurrection. David simply does not know the Biblical definition of THE GOSPEL.

Here is THE GOSPEL...also reiterated in Romans 10:9-10

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand,2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
---kathr4453 on 11/18/20


You quote Romans, yet forget Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

I.e. NOBODY is obedient to God's teachings, so by your theory, they cannot call Jesus Lord.

This is the danger of building a theological tower based on one or two verses. One must consider ALL of scripture combined.
---StrongAxe on 11/17/20

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Kathrine freely admits her church teachings are not founded on the Gospel of Christ that his disciples taught (Acts 8:25).

You see folks, Without a foundation on Truth, you are able to take teachings like Pauls and create a doctrine which best fits your lifestyle.
For example...In (Romans 10:13) Paul teaches Everyone who Call upon the name of the Lord, will be saved. Without a foundation, you can create your own path to its meaning.

Jesus said, Folks who arent obedient to his teachings, can not even call him Lord, in (Luke 6:46). So how can someone who doesnt keep his commandments, call on the name of the Lord to be saved, when they must keep his commandments to call him Lord? ((Romans 2: 6-7)
---David on 11/17/20

Netflix has a great Documentary ....SCIENTOLOGY. Well evidentially it got many calls from JW's stating how Scientology was much like JW's. So they gave them a whole episode to share their stories of abuse, just like Scientology or ALL CULTS USE. . It's season 3 towards the end either episode 9 or 10. An absolute must see, how religion is used to form cults keeping folks in bondage . Horrific. If you all out there know any JW or you yourself, you may want to watch and see the comparisons of how they abuse and FREE YOURSELVES FROM THIS DEMONIC STRONGHOLD it has on you or others. And of coarse anything like this does NOT preach the TRUE GOSPEL. ....seeing it doesn't preach what being SET FREE is all about, never wanting you to BE FREE.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/20

David, yours is that OTHER GOSPEL Paul referred to in Galatians ...the one accursed. This is why we study to show ourselves approved unto God RIGHTLY NOT WRONGLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH. I also believe Matthew is to Jews, addressing the 1000 year reign, AFTER THE CHURCH IS BUILT. I believe many cults like yours, JW, MORMON ect, only look at the 4 Gospels thinking they are those saved during that time, inheriting the earth, going back to the original Eden etc. As long as you remained brainwashed by these false Gospels, by your own choice, I can't help you. That's your choice David. But knowing what I know, IM REMAINING RIGHT WHERE I AM....IN CHRIST WHO IS MY LIFE. GALATIANS 2:20-21
---kathr4453 on 11/16/20

I am showing folks, with illustrations, why there are so many false doctrines. The reason is simple, and with your help, I was able to demonstrate this.

Most people, seeking Salvation, naturally come to a church to find it. Being new Seeds, many of them are ignorant of the Lords teachings, so they put their trust into that particular church/path for their salvation..(Matthew 13:19).

For those who follow a false doctrine, studying their bibles, will be no help if they study according to the false doctrine, which does not make the Gospel of Christ the root of their teachings.(Matthew 13:21)

Those who follow the Holy Spirit, will grow in the fertile ground and become the Sons of God. (Matthew 13:18-23)
---David on 11/16/20

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David, Stop comparing yourself to me, and holding yourself up as God Almighty. I know you deny the teachings of Paul, and the Gospel according to the Mystery. I know you deny the cross or our life in Christ AFTER the Cross. We have NOTHING WHATSOEVER in common. I don't believe the JW doctrine. I OBEY Galatians 2:20-21 AFTER WE ARE SAVED. You don't, and never have.

We are saved by Grace through faith. You say you are not.

You still have not apologized for slandering me on another thread, making YOU STILL A SLAVE TO SIN. So who are you to lecture anyone ? Unless it's envy and jealousy eating at you. I do believe that is your problem. Exactly WHAT is this sin of yours you have to keep confessing? Do tell.
---kathr4453 on 11/16/20

David, your cognitive reasoning is off the chain. The deception is all on you who deny Jesus Christ IS LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. THIS is the very foundation we disagree and from that point on you are building on sinking sand.

Are you saying you are sinless? Were you ever a slave to sin and still are or were never a slave to sin? Stop using me as your punching bag and use yourself as the perfect example of your truth. You have not done that, nor will you answer my questions ..

Jesus saved me from sin and death. I am a new creature IN CHRIST, and now a servant of righteousness freed from the power of sin longer I but Christ in me....

And you continually scoff at my testimony. THAT IS DEMONIC.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/20

DAVID I HAVE BEEN FREED FROM SIN.---kathr4453 on 11/14/20

Notice two things in her post(s). First, notice how it took her 3 posts to answer a simple Yes or No question, which Jesus says is a sign of deception.

Secondly, Though She will readily admit to being a sinner, she proclaimed She has been set free from sin. Which means, though she sins...she is not a slave of sin. Which would mean, though her answer was Yes, It should have been No.

Kathrine had to answer in this manner, because her doctrine is not founded on the Truth in the Gospel of Jesus, through which will will all be judged. (2 Thessalonians 1:8)
You will always get a deceptive answer, when it is not based on Truth.
---David on 11/15/20

Of course those who sin are a servant of sin. Also those who LIE, SLANDER another, bear false witness against another is SINNING. They are servants of sin. They are doing the will of their father...who is satan....the father of lies.

What i find interesting is David should be asking himself if he is still a servant of sin. No one is arguing about whether that verse is true or false. Its true.

The real issue is how and what David believes about being freed from sin. Paul tells us how. So, why does David not believe those scriptures. No verse states confessing sin frees you from the power of sin. Confessing Jesus Christ as the Son of God will. Identifying with Jesus in death and resurrection life does.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/20

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David SCRIPTURE DOES NOT COME FROM THE EVIL ONE. How dare you try to muzzle the WORD OF GOD.....That is a demonic tactic.


Romans 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/20

David I sorry YOU are still a slave to sin. We should all pray for your deliverance from the power of sin.

I can't understand why you refuse to believe how one is set free from sin. Scripture in Romans 6-8 I find simple to understand. You don't? WHY?
---kat453 on 11/14/20

As we can see in Kathrines answer, by not referencing the Salvation teachings of Jesus Christ. Many doctrines simply dont trust the teachings of Jesus Christ. Though he is called, in the Bible, The Author or Authority of Salvation.

They believe in Jesus Christ, but somehow, they dont believe what he taught in his Gospel. Here is one of many examples, if Kathrine will comply.
Jesus taught in (John 8:34) , Anyone who sins, is a Slave to sin?

Kathrine, do you believe this to be the Truth? Yes or No
All you need to say is simply Yes or No, anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
(Matthew 5:37)
---David on 11/14/20

Folks, those who are seeking a CLEAR PATH TO GOD, is to come to Him through His Son Jesus Christ. No one can come to the Father ( I'm supposing this is who David meant ,re God) except through the Son..John 14:6.

Jesus says "I AM "THE WAY TRUTH AND LIFE.....


David is confused by scripture. He isn't attacking me but the very word of God. He's confused, and thinks everyone else is too, because he is. So arrogant for one, since I see no one else back up his complaint. David only speaks for himself here. JW 's ARE confused by the Gospel. They always will be. They simply don't believe as Christians do.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/20

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David, we are living AD....AFTER JESUS DEATH AND RESURRECTION. I believe those saved live by Galatians 2:20-21, that also is reiterated in Hebrews 13:20-21. YOU DO NOT. By your own words, you have denied Jesus Christ IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY. My job is not telling you if your saved or not, but showing folks what scripture states concerning salvation.

Hebrews 13:20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/20

David, how did Peter answer your question in Acts? You may want to tell us why your teaching rejects Peters answer. You're confused David. My belief in the WORD of God is only confusing to those who aren't saved. You refuse to confess JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD. You have made this clear since you defended Jehovah Witness belief regarding Jesus. You refuse THAT CONFESSION. All those who put their faith in Jesus have confessed they are sinners in need of a savior. Yet you seem to think we are to write volumes listing every single sin from the day we were born. I see no scripture support for that. When we are saved, we are always sorry for our sin. Why you accuse Christians of not being sorry is just a devil's way to accuse the brethren.
---kat453 on 11/13/20

Here on CN we have a platform to teach millions of folks about God. I try to unscramble confusing teachings like yours, simply to make a clear path for those who seek God.

To show folks, just how confusing your teachings on salvation are, I will ask you a simple question. Please make it as clear as you can, so folks can see the difference in our teachings. You do not believe that I am saved, so tell me, What must I do to be saved, without doing anything?
---David on 11/13/20

Sin is the transgression of the Law, but Kathrine does not believe we are under Gods Law. If there is No law, there can be No sin (Romans 5:13). She has no reason to confess sin, because without Law, sin is impossible./////

Again another lie from David. Romans 5 THE WHOLE CHAPTER show that from Adam to Moses ADAMS SIN BROUGHT DEATH TO ALL. That FAITH in the promised redeemer we see this promise in Genesis 3:15 and Abel's sacrifice pointing to Jesus sacrifice, as did all sacrifice from Adam to Jesus death and resurrection was FOR SIN. Job sacrificed FOR THE SIN OF HIS SONS. Job was before the Law of Moses.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/20

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David, I just corrected your understanding of Romans 10:9-10. Confession in these two verses is confessing Jesus Christ is the Son if God, who died for our sin and rose again for our justification. No one was discussing the Lord's Prayer. I said the majority of verses in the NT concerns confessing JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD......something you seen to want to avoid doing and keep fighting here. You can't even agree with this truth.

Thy Kingdom come on earth has to do with the 1000 year reign of Christ. The subject here is not about that is it? It's about salvation.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/20

There you have it. You can follow the teachings Kathrine follows...or the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus gave instructions on how to pray, see if you can find a confession of sin is his instructions.

He said to them, When you pray, say:
Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread. Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.
(Luke 11:2-4)
---David on 11/12/20

Romans 10:10 REITERATE Romans 9.....

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Confession here in Romans 10:9-10 is confessing Jesus Christ is Lord. It does not say here confession of sin. If you look up every NT scripture using the word "CONFESS" , the majority is openly confessing Jesus Christ is Lord. Confessing He is the Son of God. THIS IS WHAT THE PHARISEES REFUSED TO DO. THIS IS WHY THEY ARE LOST.
---kathr4453 on 11/10/20

The bigger problem is teaching that it is okay to live in sin. Jesus died to save us not just from hell but from living in hate and sin.

Remember the servants who did all things right. Not to be saved but because they were filled with love. Many refuse to read Titus, or James. Others ignore First John.

Those who love GOD will love others.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/9/20

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1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

This David is what you need to confess. There are many NT scriptures on confession, but the majority of them reiterate this verse in 1 John 4:15. Also note CONFESS in Romans 10:9-10

Under the NC David, you definitely want GOD to dwell in you. He can't dwell in sinners, but only THE NEW CREATURE CREATED IN CHRIST. There is no HOPE OF GLORY for you if God does not dwell in you.

The HOPE OF GLORY is heaven David...joint heirs with Christ...sons of God. You need to aim HIGHER.
---kathr4453 on 11/9/20

David, When we put out faith in Jesus Christ, our faith is in the FACT that Jesus died FOR OUR Sin. Confessing Christ is confessing we are sinners who CANNOT SAVE OURSELVES BY OUR OWN GOOD WORKS AND DEEDS. THAT JESUS ALONE SAVES. Jesus died FOR MY SIN and yours.

The problem David, folks like yourself want to ADD TO Jesus sacrifice because they don't think it's enough. They want to take credit for their salvation by works. Not of works, lest any man should boast. All you do David IS boast. ....AND LIE AND SLANDER. YOU ARE STILL IN YOUR SIN, but spend your time worried about others sin. MINE HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN DAVID. Yours have not...because you keep committing them over and over will be punished.
---kathr4453 on 11/9/20

Jesus Christ died to be a sacrifice for our sin, the only sacrifice acceptable to God. But without a confession of sin, you are wasting his sacrifice.

Sin is the transgression of the Law, but Kathrine does not believe we are under Gods Law. If there is No law, there can be No sin (Romans 5:13). She has no reason to confess sin, because without Law, sin is impossible.

But for those of you who are sinners, confess your sin before God and learn the truth for yourself. If nothing happens, Kathrine is right. But if you notice evil, evil you didnt notice in your life before the confession...Paul is right.

For with the heart man believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:10)
---David on 11/7/20

Unfortunately David has totally left out Jesus Christ in his false belief system. NO ONE, NOT EVEN DAVID can come to the father except THROUGH....AGAIN LISTEN UP.... THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

So folks, I'd really listen to the WORD OF GOD That shows us the way TO THE FATHER. There is no salvation apart from Jesus death and resurrection, no matter how good you think you are. Only Pharisees believe as David does...and they are as lost as lost can be, as they arrogantly undermine your faith in Christ.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/20

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Like many people who seek God, I too followed a few false doctrines and God still Chose me. Fortunately I was seeking a relationship with God, and not salvation through a doctrine, which allowed me to continue my sinful lifestyle.

I dont care for many of the Catholic or Protestant doctrines, but like God, I do care for those believers who earnestly seek a relationship with God. And for those seeking that relationship, God will take them away from those false doctrines, and lead them the way through his Holy Spirit.

Many people are satisfied with the guaranteed salvation, their false doctrines have promised them. If thats all they want, they will have to wait till judgment day to find out God doesnt honor those guarantees.
---David on 11/1/20

Jesus kept the sabbath because He was under the Law at the time of His death and resurrection. And as Hebrews points out the New Testiment now in effect came into effect after Jesus resurrection. Under the Law, Bulls and goats were slaughtered too, yet no one keeps that either. Just as JESUS IS OUR PASSOVER LAMB, HE IS ALSO OUR SABBATH. our life is now IN CHRIST, not in days months and years.

This is what I obey Jerry and you don't. You like the Pharisees who rejected Jesus have rejected salvation by Grace through faith. Just read Romans 10 and Hebrews 3-4. We "enter" ... not keep HIS REST. We live in a whole new day .
---kathr4453 on 11/1/20

katty: It is God who judges you - not me or any SDA. God gave us Ten Commandments to obey. The fact that you don't want to obey Him by keeping the fourth one has nothing to do with me. Take it up with God. Jesus kept ALL of the Commandments - else He would be a sinner. Don't you want to follow the example of Jesus?

---jerry6593 on 11/1/20

So I guess Sunday worshippers are no longer an issue with Jerry. Good to hear Jerry. Some SDA's totally judge those who don't keep Saturday Sabbath. Now I guess Politics are more important to Jerry. He judges those who again don't measure up to his political leanings. I'd say that is judging. A few here judge ones faith based on politics...David for one. Interestingly those here who do are EXTREMELY LEGALISTIC. It's not that interesting because the EXTREME RIGHT WING IS VERY LEGALISTIC. So their faith is in LEGALISM, not GRACE Or FAITH. They confuse legalism with Christianity. So did those Pharisees. They were so legalistic they crucified their own messiah. Blind legalism leads to hell. Wake up.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/20

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little ax: I have never judged you. I have criticized the leftist ideologies you aspire to and have pointed out where the Bible condemns your religious beliefs, but I have never judged your fitness for salvation. I firmly believe that it is God's job to do that.

---jerry6593 on 10/30/20

Can't quite understand what Jerry thinks he's agreeing with ven over. Ven never said what Jerry said. Ven never used the word judge either. So according to Calvinism Jerry, the concept is, that before Jacob and Esau were ever born, not having done any good or evil, God chose, NOT BASED ON JUDGING ...but Gods good humor....the heavenly lotto.

Interestingly too, no where does it say God chose Jacob before he was conceived in his mothers womb. God never said to Rebecca BEFORE she conceived....but told her when these little guys were already formed ...the elder will SERVE the younger. Still nothing about " Hay Rebecca, I've chosen one of your son's for heaven and the other for hell.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/20


You wrote: So true ven! God alone is the judge of our fitness for salvation. When we claim to judge ourselves or someone else, we usurp the prerogative God, and thus have committed blasphemy. We can judge fruits, but salvation - that's God's job.

Yet aren't you always judging the salvation of people like me and kathr, not to mention Democrats in general, in exactly this way?
---StrongAxe on 10/29/20

So true ven! God alone is the judge of our fitness for salvation. When we claim to judge ourselves or someone else, we usurp the prerogative God, and thus have committed blasphemy. We can judge fruits, but salvation - that's God's job.

---jerry6593 on 10/29/20

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Only God is the only One who can bring life to a dead heart so that the person who is lost, can hear the Gospel truth. Without that happening, they will not accept the truth, because their heart is dead in trespasses and sins.
---ven on 10/9/20

So true Strong ax. Good points.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/7/20


You wrote: I usually ask what do you believe. Why? Then let their answers show me what I should ask next.

Exactly. It is very important to reach people with dialog, trying to understand what they believe, and seeing what common ground you have for discussion, and then introducing new concepts within the framework of their currnet understanding, rather than trying to beat them over the head with something they may not be ready or willing to hear.

A viral meme that has been circulating recently:
I have seen too many people with the Bible on their lips, and hate in their hearts.

And this is what Christians who come beating them over the head with bibles seem like.
---StrongAxe on 9/24/20

I usually ask what do you believe. Why? Then let their answers show me what I should ask next.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/20/20

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Cluny had to move out of the place he was living at the end of January. Since there, he has been living in a series of temporary places, but he doesn't have access to the internet. That's why he hasn't been posting on here since then.
---StrongAxe on 9/20/20

No, I don't think it is rude. I rather be asked then assuming I am Saved.

I am a Catholic living in the South. Many people have asked me and I tell them yes I was Baptised.

Now, that's when it can get rude when the questioner refuses to believe the method of Salvation.

Anywho, I rather someone be rude to me, than being nice to me as I walking closer to hell.

Some people just don't know unless they are told.

BTW, I haven't seen Cluny's posts. Is everyone okay? Any update?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/20/20

Yes, it is rude. It is prying, and pushy. You 'win people over" from your loving actions and respect and the love shining out from you.
---Megan on 9/16/20

No I haven't alan of uk. When someone can not give a testimony of their being bought by the Blood of Christ, it does not take much of a gift to know that these are hypocrites. I do have a problem with that I admit it. But you know what so did Jesus.
---catherine on 1/9/08

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Personally I've brought more people to the Lord through his Prophetic words & by the words of the Prophets then i have by his Gospel, People usually already know that part(Birth,Death,Ressurection)as we all should & have no other Gospel.
No, it's not rude though, But it can be counter productive in saving the lost.
Usually the lost will look at you as if you have a Holier than thou attitude & can't hear the next word out of your mouth
---Duane_M on 1/8/08

Funny people have no problem telling me that they are going to hell. Complete strangers will suddenly 'dump' their sins to me. All I ask is how are you today. Strange how open people are when you are completely open. They sense and know who is and is not judgemental.
---dan on 1/8/08

Would someone with bad pathology, a liar, be saved?
The testimony is not authentic and the circumstances are forever changing, would the pathology of the liar prevent them from being saved?

God says liars will not enter His kingdom, does it matter whether you consider yourself to have bad pathology or a simply a liar?
---Mike on 1/8/08

Catherine "My motive in this is to somehow convince them that they are not saved"
Presumably your gift of Discernment has already told you that they are not saved?
Do you ever try to "somehow convince them that they are not saved" and find that they are already?
---alan_of_UK on 1/8/08

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Usually I do not have to ask. Right away people start telling me how many times they go to church. What they are doing in the church and God said this to me and so forth. I can not help myself. I ask them for their testimony of salvation. And they look at me. Some say it was a prickly of the skin. Some ask me, "what is that"? Then I give my testimony..My motive in this is to somehow convince them that they are not saved.
---catherine on 1/8/08

I ask people all the time if they are saved. I have'nt had anyone say that I was rude. If they did say that I was rude for asking, that would not bother me. I would rather be rude and maybe plant a seed of faith in their heart about Jesus which could ultimately save their soul. I had a catholic priest get angry at me once for witnessing Jesus to him. He called me a heratic for leaving his church. Six months later, he got saved, left the church and became a missionary after that. True story.
---John on 1/8/08

No it is not rude. I don't ask very much, Because everyone I ask tells me they are saved. I have never, ever, had anyone to tell me that they are on their way to Hell. But the world tells a different story. And this nation.
---catherine on 6/16/07

Something as important as a soul delivered from hell. No. I dont think asking if someone is saved is rude. You are actually doing the person a favor that last into all eternity. That is the most loving and honorable thing you can do for another person, is to lead them to Christ. Rude or not, I want to win souls for Christ. He who does so, the bible tells us, is ...wise.
---Robyn on 6/16/07

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There are many tactful ways to broach the subject with someone. Sometimes the direct approach is the best approach.
Matthew 10:16, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
---Bruce5656 on 6/15/07

No, it is not rude to ask a person if they are saved. If they don't like it, which some don't, then I hope that I have planted a seed and that it will grow and they will get saved.
---Helen_5378 on 7/25/06

it is rather rude if you dont speak in the normal do you know Christ? when the Titanic went down, a pastor in the water brought a lot to Christ by asking if they were saved before he died..
---jana on 7/24/06

Yes, to just go up to a stranger and ask if they are saved is rude. I like to get to know a person before I delve into their spiritual lives.
---Madison on 2/26/06

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I believe that in some cases it is... especially if the person is someone you just met. Being "saved" confuses some. Saved from what? And some are instantly offended (they sense that your main goal is to "convert" them, not that you care about them)Why not start a conversation and learn a little about them, their lives and their concerns. What do THEY believe? If they reveal their beliefs or lack thereof..then you can expain yours and tell them about Jesus.
---Donna on 2/25/06

I don't believe that it is. What I usually do is start a conversation w/ a person by asking them the date or time, etc. By conversating you can find out alot about the person. After talking with them for a few minutes I ask them if they would like prayer for anything. That opens them up a little bit more. Then I ask them have they excepted Jesus as their Savior.
---Rickey on 12/15/05

2. a fish is more likely to mean he/she is a Christian). Observing their reading material can give clues. If someone swears a lot in conversation it is tempting to shut off from the person but sometimes we might be led to say that we don't like to hear such words - and who knows where a conversation can go from there? None of these approaches should be of us though, we should always be receptive to the Holy Spirit showing us which approach is correct in each individual situation.
---M.A. on 12/15/05

I travel by train a lot and get into conversation with strangers. I have never asked a stranger "Are you saved?" and have never been asked it myself. I think such a question suits certain settings only, Christian conventions, mass evangelistic rallies etc. There are ways of getting an answer to that question without wording it that way and we must be led by God to say what He wishes us to say to strangers. Noticing someone wearing a cross can be an opener, (it might just be jewellery to them;
---M.A. on 12/15/05

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There is a difference in asking someone if they're okay or if they are saved. We shouldn't just witness just to the lost, we should witness to everyone. By me witnessing to someone saved it could lift them up and be a blessing to them. Like I said, if you have to ask if someone is saved, chances are they're not.
---Rebecca_D on 12/4/05

Is being saved something to hide or be ashamed of? Asking if someone is saved is showing your concern for their spiritual well being. I have seen posts with someone asking if someone is saved. It can give you an idea if they need prayer or witnessing.
It is ok to ask about how a person's health is.
---Ulrika on 12/4/05

I dated my husband for a year and married 7 months ago. To this day, I've not asked him if he is a Christian. It showed in his actions by putting others before himself, keeping commitments when it caused him problems, looked for good in people, forgiving, prayerful, and respectful.
---Tammy on 12/4/05

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