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Elect Taken Out Before Tribulation

Jesus talking about the great tribulation. matthew 24:22 and unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. If the elect is taken out before the great tribulation why would God have to shorten the day's for the elect's sake?

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 ---liz7 on 12/11/05
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he will shorten the days of the great tribulation for the elect's sake because we will go through the tribulation. jesus never said we would be taken out of tribulation,he said that it will come. but that we are not appointed to the judgement of the wrath of God.
---liz7 on 9/10/07

The "Elect" are the small portion of Jew's who will be saved, during the Great Tribulation Period. Christian's are not suppose to go through this Tribulation Period, but the MAJORITY of them will for various reasons.
---Mrs._Morgan on 9/16/06

Eloy, did you get your children back?

If not yet we should all be praying for you not ignoring that to debate this point which will happen according to God's will regardless which ones of us are right or wrong in our interpretation of future events.
---Linda3 on 12/26/05

Great question Liz7, The Truth of the matter is :there is no "Rapture". So those of us who have not fallen away to false doctrine, are preparing(like Noah, Joseph, the wise virgins). God will shorten the days so we will be able to see His 2nd comming.
---Lynn_Bedford77 on 12/26/05

continued: god also revealed matt. 24:31 the meaning of that verse. and he will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. )the four winds represent either the four corners of the earth or god's omnipresence, here the word heaven is used so they are already in god's presence, but when its used of the sealed of israel rev.7:1 earth is used, so they are on earth.
---liz7 on 12/15/05

God also revealed to me in 2 thess. 2:3 that day will not come unless the falling away comes first. (so people that are left will go to church and say they believe but 2 thess. 2:10-12 because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. and for this reason god will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie. that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (REPENT)
---liz7 on 12/15/05

continued: revelation chap. 3:10 because you have kept my command to persevere, i also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
---liz7 on 12/15/05

i was reading revelation and in reading the letters to the seven churches (and these letters are for the churches today also) rev. chapter 2and3 god revealed 1 verse to me that states the true christians will not be here "the faithful church" but five he tells them to REPENT and one to be faithful until death "the persecuted church".
---liz7 on 12/15/05

Good points Pierre. In addition, if one assigns the last week of Daniel's 70-week prophecy to the future antichrist, they remove the only concrete proof to Jews that Jesus was the true messiah. The time span from Artaxerxes decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (457 BC) to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was exactly the 69 weeks plus 3 1/2 days that Daniel had prophesied. What a shame to assign that great gift of God to Satan.
---jerry6593 on 12/15/05

Lupe: My purpose was to show That the HE in Dan. 9:27 refers to Jesus not the Antichrist. That what is seen as future events (reconstruction of the "physical" Jewish temple and the reintroduction of animal sacrifices) are non-events! Rather I see Jesus as the rebuilt temple, the ultimate and supreme sacrifice and I see myself as a grafted branch of the new "spiritual" Jewish nation.
Finally that the theory of a 7 yr TRIBULATION is also a non event! P.
---Pierre on 12/15/05

Pierr, I have been trying to make out why you gave the book of Daniel (9:27) and the explanation from Matthew Henry? I am just trying to keep up with you guys. I am a little slow.
---Lupe2618 on 12/14/05

Henry's commentary:"By offering himself a sacrifice once and for all, Jesus put and end to all LEVEICAL SACRIFIECES!"
Adam Ckark in his commentary echos Henry!
Finally, Jamieson,Fausset and Brown comment:" The confirmation of the covenant is assigned to Him" (Jesus).
Conclusion: DAN 9:27 applies to Jesus NOT the antichrist! See MATH 26:28/GAL 3:17/ROM
15:8! Jesus gave His life for us, causing the sacrifices to cease! No more sacrifices need to be offered. P.
---Pierre on 12/13/05

Respected Bible scholars like Mathew Henry do not apply DAN 9:27 to the Antichrist at all!! nor does he apply the "one week" to a seven yr period of Tribulation after the rapture!! RATHER correctly applies the prophecy to Jesus Christ, who after 31/2 years of loving ministry died "in the midst of the week" which caused the animal sacrifices to cease!
---Pierre on 12/13/05

Liz4 Zech 14 is not the subject we are dealing with.
If we are the Elect who is the Church?
Great before Tribulation means that there was never a time of trouble like this last time of trouble will be.
You cannot pull verses from just anywhere to prove a point.
If the Church goes through the Great Tribulation then why not just live how you want and get Saved during the Tribulation?
Show me what you think the events are in the Book of Revelation in the order of happening please.
---Elder on 12/13/05

Rickey: For your consderation: What about the 7 years?
The text used as a basis for the 7 yr TRIBULATION theory is DAN 9:27 "He shall...the sacrifices to cease."
A day in prophecy = 1 year; NUM 14:34/EZ 4:6
thus the period of one week = 7 years.
Millions are erroniously applying this to a future 7 yr period of TRIBULATION and "HE" is applied erroniously again to the "ANTICHRIST", who supposedly will make a covenant with the Jews. What is the TRUTH? TBC
---Pierre on 12/13/05

Liz7, A study on the Sovereignty of God, is very important to understand the doctrine of Election. Elect are the one's that will be the church of Christ. In many cases in Scripture this people have not commited their lives to Christ, yet, it is certain they will because God choose them. Yes, we are also the elected ones because we were chosen, we are elected already. The word Elect, has to be read in its full context on the passage to determine if they have been saved already or will be.
---Lupe2618 on 12/13/05

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Elder: Good effort on your part to explain it your way. We will just let our friends read and ponder our respective positions and decide for themselves. One question I do have:
What is the difference between God's church and the elect? Give me scrip.+V. Thanks! P.
---Pierre on 12/13/05

elder read all of zechariah chapter 14 talking about the day of the lord. also we are the elect the word means chosen. we will have tribulation the word great in front of it means it will be more in amount of tribulation not brought about as in judgement from god but brought about because of sin in the world and being persicuted because people don't believe in god.
---liz7 on 12/13/05

The church will be raptured up before this takes place. What Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24:22 pertains to the last three and a half year of the seven yr. tribulation that will take place while we are appearing before the judgement seat of Christ. The tribulation here is refered to as " Jacob's Troubles". (Jeremiah 30:7) The O.T. is a fortelling or prophecy of what will happen during the N.T. period.
---Rickey on 12/13/05

This is a tough one, as there are many verses that support different views. All I know is, I am going!!!
---mike on 12/13/05

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Pierre on 12/12/05
"(REV 16) Now, notThe e what Jesus says between the 6th and 7th plague:"BEHOLD I COME AS A THIEF. BLESSED IS HE THAT WATCHES...AND HE GATHERED THEM IN A PLACE CALLED...ARMAGEDON." REV 16:15-16
DID YOU GET IT? Jesus is talking to His Church! What is the BIG DEAL? TBC"
Here is the big deal...
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 12/13/05

Cond #2-->
Notice the group being spoke of here in Rev 16:9-11. It is those who blasphemed and repented not. Does this describe you?
V 11 They blasphemed because of their pain. Does this describe you?
Just answer this next question,
Who are the "much People" in Heaven in Rev 19:1?
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 12/13/05

Cond #3--->
Rev 19:11-21 is the 2nd Coming of Jesus.
Rev 20:1-5 is the Millennium, the thousand year reign of Christ with Satan bound in the bottomless pit. Then 20:7-10 the final revolt of Satan and his destruction.
Rev 16:15 Jesus will never come as a thief to His Church. Read I Thess 5:4, that day will not overtake the Church as a thief. Why? Because the Church is waiting, watching and expecting Him to come Titus 2:13
---Elder on 12/13/05

Pierre on 12/12/05
"Paul also advised the church that "WE MUST GO THROUGH MUCH (to) ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD" Acts 14:22
QUESTION TO PONDER? If we are not here, how will we go through much tribulations?"
Pierre again you do the same thing.
Do you see the "plural" much tribulation, meaning more than one?
Again this is NOT the Great Tribulation.
This was written to the Disciples to encourage them. Read the verse it's right there.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 12/13/05

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Cond #2-->
They were "exhorted" to continue even though they would suffer many things.
By the way, have you, as a Christian, gone through any tribulation since you have been Saved? Has anyone else reading this?
---Elder on 12/13/05

Pierre on 12/12/05
"Math 24.9,13
QUESTION TO PONDER? If we are going to escape the tribulations, who is Jesus talking about?"
I have already answered this question many times. You might want to read my responses.
But again, He is speaking of the Elect. We are not the Elect we are the Church.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 12/13/05

Cond #2-->
Matthew 24 is not speaking of the Church.
Again you misquote and misdivide the word.
You cannot understand it if you don't put it in the right perspective and place.
Take the time to see what the Disciples asked. Matt 24:3 they asked about the 2nd Coming and the end of the world not about the Great Tribulation.
These are three different things
---Elder on 12/13/05

Elder: You stated that "The Great Tribulation starts at the Rapture." I would appreciate your giving a scripture to back up that claim. The only rapture alluded to in my Bible is that associated with Christ's second coming. (1 Thes 4:17)
---jerry6593 on 12/13/05

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Pierre you simply misquote and wrongly divide the word.
Eph was written to the Ephesians to explain the wonderful things we have received in Christ. He refers to the Church as a body, temple, bride and soldier.
His purpose in writing was to strengthen believers.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 12/13/05

Cond #2-->
The Theme of the book is;
God's Purpose,
Christ as the Center,
The Nature of the Church,
The Family of the Church,
and Christian Behavior.
This book has nothing to do with the Christian standing in the Tribulation.
What does "evil day" in 6:13 refer to?
Well, in 5:15-16 Paul said the days were evil.
Was he speaking of the Great Tribulation or something with right then?
He was refering to daily battle.
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 12/13/05

Cond #3--->
Christians fight against principalities and powers i.e.: evil forces, 6:10-17.
The "evil day" is the daily battle against the powers of darkness. That is why the armor is spoken of. During the Great Tribulation people are told to run to the mountains and take NOTHING with them. You have pulled verses out of context to prove a point which they don't. Paul identified the enemy, explained our equipment and issued the command to Stand when the enemy comes in daily battle.
---Elder on 12/13/05

"Because you have kept the word of my patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation, which will come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Revelation 3:10.
---Eloy on 12/13/05

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Pierre, you are so wrong. God will take us out, not through. The elect are the ones who come to believe on Christ, and those days will be shorten for them. The things they will be kept from in those days, is the wrath of God. They will have the seal of God on them, so not to be harmed by the things God will send on those who refuse to believe.
---a_friend on 12/13/05

2. Acts 14:22, does not speak about the tribulation time but what the Apostles were going to go through. They are not alive now to take that to mean during the tribulations. "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God." Also the Kingdom of God refers to the sphere of salvation, the gracious domain of divine rule over believer's hearts (1 Cor. 6:9; Eph. 5:5; Col. 1:13,14;). This was the dominate theme during Christ's earthly ministry. These passage is not about tribulation times.
---Lupe2618 on 12/12/05

Pierr, i don't know how you get tribulation out of Matthew 28:20, it is not talking about the tribulation time. the Phrase, "I am with you" does not end with the conversion of the believers but is an ever lasting, there's is a touching echo of the beginning of Matthew's gospel here, Immauel(1:23) "Which is translated, "God with us"-remains "with us" even to the end of the age" Says nothing about believers going through tribulation.
---Lupe2618 on 12/12/05

part B.
Since Israel is under a spirit of slumber, many don't believe the Messiah has come yet. Many are not saved, because they reject Jesus as the Messiah, as they did when Jesus was on earth. Therefore the Jews who are left behind, because they are not saved go through the tribulation. The Jews who are saved during the tribulation are the elect or election.
---Ulrika on 12/12/05

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Isaiah 29:10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto to this day.
These verses are talking about Israel.
---Ulrika on 12/12/05

While the 7 last plagues are falling and just before the battle of ARMAGEDON, JESUS CHRIST HAS NOT YET COME AS A THIEF!! Therefore He must come like a thief at Armagedon and THAT WILL BE THE TIME WHEN HE WILL GATHER HIS CHURCH! (Note: as a thief = element of surprise not secrecy)
Good bless! P.
---Pierre on 12/12/05

of the last plagues (REV 16) Now, notThe e what Jesus says between the 6th and 7th plague:"BEHOLD I COME AS A THIEF. BLESSED IS HE THAT WATCHES...AND HE GATHERED THEM IN A PLACE CALLED...ARMAGEDON." REV 16:15-16
DID YOU GET IT? Jesus is talking to His Church! What is the BIG DEAL? TBC
---Pierre on 12/12/05

Paul also advised the church that "WE MUST GO THROUGH MUCH (to) ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD" Acts 14:22
QUESTION TO PONDER? If we are not here, how will we go through much tribulations?

ANSWER: Jesus will see His church THROUGH the
tribulation not from it! Mat 28:20
---Pierre on 12/12/05

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Jesus Christ also said the believers: "Then they will deliver you up to TRIBULATION and kill you, and you will be hated by all nattions for My name's sake. Math 24.9,13
QUESTION TO PONDER? If we are going to escape the tribulations, who is Jesus talking about?
---Pierre on 12/12/05

Elder: READ and MEDITATE on the following:
There ar some who teach that the Church will not be here on earth for the endtime events: the GREAT TRIBULATION and the FALLING OF THE 7 LAST PLAGUES! IS THIS TRUE !!
GREAT TRIBULATON: Paul urges us to take up the whole armour of God THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND IN "THE EVIL DAY" and having done all, to stand! EPH 6:3
QUESTION TO PONDER: How are we going to stand in "the evil day" if we have previously disappeared??
---Pierre on 12/12/05

In this verse Jesus is saying , unless those days of great tribulation were shortened all flesh would die. Matthew 24:22 We do not have events such as described in Revelation going on all over the earth threatening the lives of all flesh. We do not know the exact time Christ will come for his church, and we will be caught up. 1Thes. 4:15-18 I believe it will be before the tribulation.
---Ulrika on 12/12/05

The redeemed will be taken, (raptured / caught out of the world) before the Great and terrible tribulation. The "elect" are the Jewish people "elected" to be the evangelist to the lost world during that time. Many will be saved due to the elect's preaching of the gospel...but they will be martyered for their faith in Christ Jesus. Only those who have never heard and rejected Christ will hear and receive Him and be saved.
---truth_seeker on 12/12/05

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Liz7 you need to seriously sit down and outline the events that occur in the Book of Revelation. The Great Tribulation starts at the Rapture and ends at the Second coming of Christ. You are saying that the Great Tribulation is poured out on the very one who controls it. Why would you think Christ returns to this earth and then the Tribulation starts? When He returns He sets up His 1000 year reign.
---Elder on 12/12/05

Pierre hopefully you are Saved by the Blood of Christ without any works of your own. If that is true then you are not part of the Elect spoken of in Matt 24. You are part of the Church. The Church will not go through the Great Tribulation. When Christ calls the Church out we will go stand before the Bema Judgement and receive or lose rewards.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 12/12/05

Cond #2-->
The Great Tribulation starts on the earth at the same time. It lasts for 7 years.
After that Christ returns (The Second Coming) and binds Satan.
The 1000 year reign of Christ begins.
After the 1000 years Satan is loosed and goes out and deceives the world the last time.
The Final War on earth is fought and Satan is forever cast into the Lake of Fire.
---Elder on 12/12/05

We born-again christians are already suffering tribulation, and we cry day and night for deliverance. i personally have had my children kidnapped, and i have gone through horrendous horrors that i will not expound now for the enemies glory. And i beg God daily to cut the time short, for he wants everyone saved, but i tell him the longer he waits more and more believers are falling away into perdition, because of tribulations of being christian in an antichrist world.
---Eloy on 12/12/05

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2. The one's saved already don't have to go through that time.
---Lupe2618 on 12/12/05

Sister Ann and Elder are correct Pierr. It is not talking about people that are saved already. The elect talked about here have not commited their lives yet. Chosen but not yet saved. If the afflictions of this time were to continue, no flesh would be saved. No one would survive. But "for the elect's sake(so that redeemed people do not suffer more than they can bear) the time is "shortend" held short of total destruction.
---Lupe2618 on 12/12/05

Elder: I think that the author of this blog is right when he/she states that Math 24:22 is talking about the Great Tribulation. I also agree with him/her THAT IT WOULD NOT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL FOR THESE DAYS TO BE SHORTENED FOR THE ELECTS' SAKE, IF AS YOU SEEM TO THINK, THE ELECT WILL NOT EXPERIENCE THE GREAT TRIBULATION! If you still disagree, study the blog carefully and come up with a
Bible based answer to affirm your viewpoint!
---Pierre on 12/12/05

elder the great tribulation is not the wrath of God jesus comes back after the great tribulation and then the wrath of God starts. you look in your bible and find the word tribulation and wrath together, you will not find it.
---liz7 on 12/12/05

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Pierre is that not what I said? If you think you are going through the Great Tribulation/Wrath of the Lamb you are wrong as I have told you before. Christians have trials and tribulations but will not suffer the Great Tribulation.
The purpose of the Great Tribulation is to bring the unbelieving Jew and others to Christ. If you are already Saved why would you be subjected the the Great Trib?
Pierre if you go through it it is because you missed Christ here.
---Elder on 12/12/05

Good for you mima, The Times Of The Gentiles as such [in control of Jerusalem has long passed]. The Lord here is speaking of the (un)raptured Christian remnant & converts, along with the now Jewish believers in Him. The Jewish laws are evidently in force again [vs.15-20] as attested by the weekly sabbath day travel laws, etc. Things will be a lot worse for mother's nursing babies, as winters there are bitter cold! God's Best.
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 12/11/05

The statement and question make it clear: As follower of JCH we will suffer serious persecutions but He will see us through, not allowing us to be subjected to more than we could bear. Elder, I hope you get it soon! P.
---Pierre on 12/11/05

Matt 24 and 25 are not about the Church Age Saints. It is about the Tribulation Saints. Ann has told you correctly.
God ALWAYS gives excape to His people. The death angel was an example. With the blood applied as God instructed the Death Angel could not touch the first born of that family.
You are not a member of the elect you are a member of the Church if you are Saved. You will not go through the Great Tribulation.
---Elder on 12/11/05

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The elect will go through the tribulation, they will be the ones to come out of the tribulation.
---a_friend on 12/11/05

YES the believers will be rapture. However
the elect that the tribulation will be shorten for are the Jewish people. The Jew are still the elect of GOD also.---mima 12/11/2005
---mima on 12/11/05

I believe it means that there will be such horror on the earth that if God allowed it to continue indfinitely, all life on earth would be destroyed. He allows it to go on for just 7 years. His "elect" are the new believers that get saved during the Great Tribulation. There is a scripture verse- I can never find it when I want it- that says we are told these things so we may avoid the things that are to come. We are most definitely saved from the Tribulation.
---Ann5758 on 12/11/05

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