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QUESTION FOR CATHOLICS; What would be your reaction to getting a UNSIGNED letter in the mail, outlineing what catholics believe compared with what non-catholics believe?

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 ---mima on 12/29/05
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I agree with Emcee.

There are three good reasons why such a letter should go into the trash:

1) No one person can know even what a large group of people believes. He might be able to say "what Catholics are EXPECTED to believe", but the best way to get an authoritative definition of that is from the Church (or at least research that can be corroborated), not an anonymous leaflet.

2) Even worse, no one person can say what everyone ELSE believes. Many non-Catholics protestants, muslims, hindus, atheists, etc.) believe many very different things.

3) An anonymous letter is clearly not interested in dialogue or exchange of ideas - only propaganda. It offers no opportunity to challenge any of its claims.
---StrongAxe on 1/19/12

Reaction For all usigned Letters WPBasket.
---Emcee on 12/27/07

Speaking as an American, if studies show that only 20% of Catholics in America actually KNOW what the RCC ACTUALLY teaches, odds are the letter would misrepresent RCC teachings. I'm sure they are out there, but I have yet to meet ONE Protestant who actually knows what the RCC teaches (although I blame the US bishops for that - not the Protestants). Prior to the 90's, Fulton Sheen was probably the ONLY Catholic in the US involved in spreading the faith.
---Greyrider on 12/27/07

My reaction would be to pray for those that find the time to judge other Christians, and pray that I dont get tempted to judge theirs. It's the enemy trying to get you to judge your brothers and sisters in Christ. Lets try to learn from each other, instead of picking at differences, and pray that we come together. I can listen the preist at church and watch the Baptist or Evangelist pastor on TV. Either way I'm feeding on the Word, and I'm taking it from whatever Christian source it comes from.
---LaLupe on 12/26/07

RE: "Hatred" shown to the RCC or RC's.

Paul STRONGLY withstood the false teachers of his day. He used language such as would likely not be allowed to be posted here. Is that "hatred"?
---Bruce5656 on 12/24/07

I have nothing against Catholics. I have received phamplets attacking my religion in the mail. The people who produce such stuff usually attack ALL other sectarian groups not their own. Such actions show lack of maturity. This is religious intolerance, the type of intolerance thought to be left in the dustbin of our european past.(BTW I am NOT 'Mike')
---MikeM on 5/8/06

Thanks Daphne for your warm heartedness. Sometimes I feel like I invented "frustration". To me the truth is crystal clear,and to try to explain it to those who are so deeply entrenched in their "ism" seems like a losing battle! Thanks for careing.
---1st_cliff on 1/11/06

1st_cliff, though I rarely agree with what you say, and sometimes I get frustrated because you don't "seem" to listen, I do not want you to stop inputting on these blogs. I think you keep coming back because you want to be convinced of the truth... and we have done a poor job of doing so. Don't give up on us... keep coming back and keep an open mind and heart.
---daphn8897 on 1/11/06

Willow; No Jesus was not just a "mere" man! NVB. Isa 30.10 "Give US no more visions of what is right! Tell US pleasant things, prophecy illusions (vs.11)Leave this way, get off this path,and stop confronting US with the Holy One of Israel". I will leave and bore you no longer! agape
---1st_cliff on 1/11/06

the book in question is an occultic spiritual book that denies the word of GOD and makes Jesus a mere man ..many of your posts do the since both you and it seem to agree I wondered if you were a follower.
---willow on 1/10/06

I agree with Mike, I am "one of us."
Your blogs have become VERY tiresome, redundant and not in keeping with Christian beliefs. The majority here are Christian, I for one am bored with your diatribes.
---NVBarbara on 1/10/06

Willow; Never heard of them!
---1st_cliff on 1/10/06

do you read The Urantia Book?
---willow on 1/9/06

Elder; I said before Paul was indeed a great writer ( Ijust don't believe he was "inspired") He was a Pharisee (whom Jesus denounced) and as a sect they believed in soul immortality! So in alluding to this he says "absent from the body " etc..)leading Christians in that direction (very suttle) Jesus told them they were from their father the devil (father of the lie) what lie? As satan told Eve you won't/don't really die!
---1st_cliff on 1/9/06

Cliff I said before you look at why it can't be instead of why it can. Your MIL is different, I have always let you speak. You just haven't listened. You're on a highway also, kinda broad one. You take little parts to build big cases to discredit the overall picture yet you embrace so many false things. You are proficient in your arguments because you have practiced for years. You leave out and reject the Truth that you need to have complete understanding.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 1/9/06

Cond #2-->
How do you feel about Hinduism, Taoism, Mysticism and the New Age movement? Those you hold hands with agree with those things and reject Paul also. Your comments expose your beliefs.
If we remove Paul from Scripture then we remove the clearest plan of Salvation in the Bible from Romans. Yet that doesn't bother you. You seem to get pleasure that Bible believers reject you.
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 1/8/06

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Cond #3--->
If a subject goes against you then you say it is only figurative and could mean something else. I fear for your Soul. Your excuses are running out and your time is running short. You are ever seeking but refuse to come to the knowledge of the Truth.
---Elder on 1/8/06

1st cliff, You too with the bleeding heart? Please give us a break! Sorry I couldn't help reading some of these. It's almost like a soap. You get sucked in and you get let down.
---Linda on 1/8/06

1st Cliff::I believe you are a good man at heart but tooo analetic Religion is Belief ISM not science.God is love.
---Emcee on 1/8/06

Mike; So you speak for "most of us" huh? In life's experience I found there are 3 things you can't reason with. #1 Emotion,#2 a drunk #3 a mob.
---1st_cliff on 1/8/06

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1st cliff. Now your saying that your equal with Jesus. Should I vomit now? Give us a break here dude! Most of us aren't buying it. Yes, you back your arguments with scripture but you twist it to help YOUR case! Satan used scripture too.
---Mike on 1/8/06

Ulrika; I realize that all my words are falling on deaf ears, like Jesus' words at Mat.11.25"you have hid these things from the wise and learned" You believe my words to be "foolish"? (outrageous you said) 1cor 1.27 "God chose the foolish ones to confound the wise" If you paid attention to my posts you would have noticed that I back my arguments with scripture or historical facts!
---1st_cliff on 1/7/06

She didn't speak to you for a year? I hope you gave her the same respect Cliff.
---NVBarbara on 1/7/06

1Cliff, I think I know why your wife says don't start anything. You say outrageous things, that can not be proved by scripture. From what I gather of your faith, it is a mixture of many religions and makes little sense.
---Ulrika on 1/7/06

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Clifford; If you can't see the difference between literal and figurative, then you have a lot to learn; When you read anything in the scriptures you need to ask yourself "is this literal, figurative symbolic or prophetic! else you will never come to a full knowledge!
---1st_cliff on 1/7/06

1st cliff, there is a way that seems right to a man but in the end there is death. Did you say that you don't believe there is a literal hell and God wouldn't cast you in it? cliff, READ YOUR BIBLE! You have been repressed too long and this is why you lash out in this manner. Your wife is exactly right. You start things and most of the time they are meaningless things. You waste many words for nought.
---Clifford on 1/7/06

Emcee ... I agree with you. It is not I who is arguing or wanting explanation ... I have been saying just what you say.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/7/06

Elder ;This was not an attempt to"belittle" you,I just speak my mind! My MIL is exactly the same as you and has "preached" to me for 20years. Her idea of conversation is "I talk you listen!" I once spoke up and said I don't believe a loveing God tortures people in a literal fire,and she wouldn't speak to me for almost a year! When we visit my wife says to me "don't start anything!"
---1st_cliff on 1/7/06

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Elder; Again you have me wrong! I do not spend time discrediting scripture (if you notice I cite it to prove) It's your "interpretation" that is flawed ,not scripture! You're a cookie-cut Christian,whatever the group (fundamentalist) believes ,so do you! You are typical of "denominalationism" my way or the highway! NVB (let us) when did "US" ever mean one?
---1st_cliff on 1/7/06

what is truth?
---willow on 1/6/06

Alan: The Trinity is a MYSTERY & not revealed by God as yet. No amount of delving Will unearth this Information which is Gods Perrogative.
---Emcee on 1/6/06

Anti dog ma:: THIS is a serious christian net for those who seek the truth. ANTI would suggest against. I believe you have the wrong Forum & would be relegated to one more of your own making.
---Emcee on 1/6/06

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Cliff, from your stand point if it is the 21st Century those things that were truth in 325AD had to change to fit us for your appearance. Of everyone on CN you spend the most time trying to prove the Bible is wrong. You are not confused you just want to discredit Scripture. Comes from your cultic studies I guess or who ever led you down your path. Time is running short most people don't live to be a hundred so they can "get it right" for God. By the time you find Truth it may be too late.
---Elder on 1/6/06

Who was God speaking to in Genesis when He said "Let US make men in OUR image and OUR likeness?" The 3 in one Trinity is taken partly on faith. I only say "partly" because we had God in human form as Jesus, and in spiritual form as the Holy Spirit. We have not seen the Spirit, but have felt His leading and He was spoken of by Jesus. Faith in ALL things of God comes by hearing, READ YOUR BIBLE! If ALL things were seen, we would have no need for faith.
---NVBarbara on 1/6/06

Ann I understand what you say, but previously you did not mention the "whole" and thus did not mention the Trinity. I felt that might open the way for Cliff to make something of it, and claim you as being a non-beleiver in the Trinity. He can't do that now.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/6/06

Elder; According to scripture Jesus was co-creator.(with His Father) The Catholic Encyclopedia says "the trinity is the central doctrine of the Church" they also believe in an "immortal soul" (not scriptural) and the burning ALIVE (torture) of human souls forever.You subscribe to all of these . Where are you in this 21st century time frame?? still stuck at 325 AD?
---1st_cliff on 1/6/06

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Cliff even though you bypassed my question I will answer yours. Religions have strayed all the way up to 1st Cliff.
You have all the reasons and excuses of why truth can't be truth. Again I will say, we have never seen you contribute anything to these blogs. Your only input is to try to confuse and shake. Your arguments are good from a human standpoint but we are dealing with spiritual things.
So answer this, was/is Jesus the Creator or not?
---Elder on 1/6/06

Cliff, you didn't respond to my scripture quotes about the names of Jesus. How do you answer that, please? And Alan, God the Father & God the Son ARE 2 different persons, being 2/3 of the whole- one God, three Persons, each being equal in power & glory...what did I say there that was not correct? It's faith, not science, that makes me believe in the Trinity. I personally don't have a big problem understanding it. It has always been, and always will be.
---Ann5758 on 1/5/06

Alan; A mystery is just that if you don't "solve" it! Daphne, the antonym of greater is lesser. If His Father is greater then He is lesser. Right?
---1st_cliff on 1/5/06

Cliff, also... in that context Jesus was not referring to the Father being better than him, but in a role of "greater" authority - indicating that "submission" (yes, ladies - THAT word) is practiced in the Godhead - though equal, the Holy Spirit submits to the Son, who in turn submits to the Father. On a side note, I find it quite freeing that my submitting to a father, husband, boss, or pastor does not mean I am less - it just means I have a different role.
---daphn8897 on 1/5/06

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Ann ... you are not really answering Cliff's argument against the Trinity. Your words "He is co-equal in power & glory to the Father, and reigning with Him in heaven" would indicate that He and God are different individuals. The Trinity is a mystery ... we cannot explain it scientifically, as Cliff seems to demand. I am content to trust without all the mechanics
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/5/06

Daphne; This is the 21st century, we don't talk like that anymore (thought it not ROBBERY) The correct meaning is in the NIV "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped"(phil 2.6) Ann; How is it that other trinitarians claim Jesus was 100% God on earth ? (and He still said His Father was greater)
---1st_cliff on 1/5/06

Cliff, Philippians 2:5-10a
Who being in the form of God, thought it NOT robbery to be EQUAL with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above EVERY name, that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow...
---daphn8897 on 1/5/06

Of course God the Father in heaven was greater than God the Son on earth, ONLY while Christ was in His human form. The Father cannot be destroyed- the Son could be hurt & killed. That makes Him- physically- less than Father God. Even the angels in heaven were slightly above Christ in His earthly form. Not now, tho. He is co-equal in power & glory to the Father, and reigning with Him in heaven.
---Ann5758 on 1/5/06

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Isaiah 9:6, in the prophesy concerning Christ's birth, He is called "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father", as only a couple of His names. How much clearer do you need the scriptures to be?
---Ann5758 on 1/5/06

John; Take a good "interlinear" study Jn.1.1, see that it says "in the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with (ho theos)the God, and the Logos was ..(not "ho" the God ) just God they didn't have the article "a" so you assume there's only one "god" used in this verse! If your biological father was a god ,you would also be one! What else could Jesus be in heaven? an angel, human??? By His own admission Jn.14.28 "my Father IS greater than I"
---1st_cliff on 1/5/06

Elder; The Scribes,Pharisees, Essenes,Zealots,Herodians etc were all religious "denominations" in the 1st century who were content in their beliefs and saw Jesus as a "trouble maker" They plotted against Him because He spoke truth and exposed their false beliefs! If religions strayed that far off the path in His time,how far have they strayed in the past 2,000 years?
---1st_cliff on 1/5/06

Johann ... well the Catholics did not seem to be answering, and you know how these discussions tend to wander far from the original questions. I would still like to know what led to the question being asked?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/5/06

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Cliff do you have nothing to contribute but controversy?
You have voiced the same questions and statements over and over. Who do you think you convincing? You only want to stir and confuse those who may be weak in the faith.
Don't you think it is time for you to contribute instead of being a dissembler. I spent weeks answering you privately to no avail so what exactly do you want to accomplish?
---Elder on 1/5/06

cliff. The Bible says the WORD was God. What's the problem? If He was just a god then why would we be told to worship Him and give our lives to Him? We understand God as the Father, as the Son, and as the Spirit. These 3 are one. If not then we would have 3 gods. You don't have 3 gods do you?
---john on 1/5/06

Alan...#2 Do you fully understand the term "only-begotten"? Rev 3.14 says Jesus was God's First creation,hence "only-begotten" Jhn.1.1 Tells of the "beginning" of the Logos " in the beginning was the word" God had no beginning!He's from everlasting to everlasting. Plain and simple Father and Son!
---1st_cliff on 1/4/06

Alan; I'm in the construction business and before we create a thing of beauty,we tear down old dilapidated structures! Who ,but God Himself created the relationship structure you call "Trinity" Father and Son. Not brother and brother or father and father (right?) Nowhere in antiquity is father and son "equal" either in time or social status! The scriptures support this view without "twisting" cont...
---1st_cliff on 1/4/06

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Johann, this blog just wandered around as most do, thus non Catholics are blogging as well. I'm an ex Catholic, does that count?
---NVBarbara on 1/4/06

Ok, Canda, carrying on in the scripture you used-how do you explain"the Word WAS God"? Emmanuel means"God with us". Jesus said"Before Abraham was,I AM", using the name Jehovah told Moses. Joseph was also told before Jesus was born what His name would be. It was made official by the ceremony at 8 days old, but He wouldn't have been called "Hey you"for the first week of His life. They would have called Him Yeshua, and at His dedication,the name would be declared and made legal.
---Ann5758 on 1/4/06

Patrick::Contrary to what you say & the authority lies in the bible. Jesus's words "thou Art Peter & upon this rock I shall build my church feed my lambs feed my sheep "Christ is the head of his church. Are you saying your words are more accurate than the Author & giver of Life???
---Emcee on 1/4/06

pt2: Anyhow he was with his father,then the word became flesh, reconizing him as "Jesus" ,then if you notice in scriptures he is named the "messiah" at his baptisim,not before but he is still Jesus. After his death & ressurection he remains Jesus, sitting at the right hand side of his father. Sorry ,but the "trinity" brought into by the R.C.C. about so many centuries after his death has never match up, he is his fathers son, period.
---canda3996 on 1/4/06

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First off Mary was only the mother of Jesus in the flesh. He wasn't given that name until 8 days after he was born, when Gabriel told her what to name her son, Jesus, she did just that at the 8th day of the Jewish circumsicion, bringing him into the temple. Before that he was the "Word" & was with his father, God creator of the heavens& earth.
---canda3996 on 1/4/06

QUESTION FOR CATHOLICS; I didn't know you were all Catholics on this thread as was the request. Why answer you have all the right answers already and leave the impression that all Catholics are dumb as rocks.
---Johann on 1/4/06

Cliff, I believe in heaven the parts of the Trinity are all equal. When Christ walked the earth He was part man, which I believe is why He stated that at that time the Father was greater. Take it or leave it Cliff, your Trinity argument is getting old. As Christians that is our belief, you won't change it. I'm not Chinese, nor live in China. Should 'the year of the dog' be important to me? I don't think so.
---NVBarbara on 1/4/06

Cliff ... you try so much to destroy our belief in the Trinity, but offer no alternative. Can you explain YOUR belief about Jesus, who He was, when/how/why He was created, and what His relationship with God the Father is.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/4/06

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NVB: Didn't you know that in the Chinese calender that this is the "year of the dog?" So if Jesus is part of this "hypostatic union" being co-equqal why would He tell His followers that His Father was GREATER than HE? (Jn.14.28) I don't believe He attempts to confuse people!
---1st_cliff on 1/3/06

Woof woof, that's all I heard you speak, did you just escape from the pound? Cliff, that is known as the "Hypostatic Union", that Jesus can be 100% man, like when He talked, walked, ate, everything a 'normal' man does. But 100% God when He performed miracles, forgave sin, and came from death to life!
---NVBarbara on 1/3/06

What's this antidogma stuff, to put it in nicer terms? Give us all a break you .... puppy! May we call you dog for short, dog?
---Dog_catcher on 1/2/06

The Nicea 'trinity' is pagan in its source, the Roman Bishops were enforcing the will of Emporer Constantine. The Antidogma has spoken.
---The_Antidogma on 1/2/06

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Cliff ... no-one professes to understand the Trinity completely.
But when we say that Jesus was 100% God we also say he was 100% man. We say the qualities of Jesus were that He was wholly God and yet wholly human. We do not say He was 100% of God.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/2/06

Altho this blog is not primarily about "trinity" answer me this (if you will) Trinitarians have said that Jesus was 100% God in the flesh! He (being God the Son) said to His followers John 14.28. my Father(God the Father) is "greater" than I! Which conversely means He was "lesser" What I've said all along,I don't doubt His "divinity" but by His own words is a lesser God! agreeing with JN.1.1 The Logos was "a" God!(no "a" article in Koine Greek)
---1st_cliff on 1/2/06

Cliff ... Jesus was what God was called when He came here 2000 years ago. It was then that Mary was the mother of Jesus's human body. She was not mother of the eternal Jesus. I think you shouold be able to understand that reason why I and others do not accept the RC dogma that Mary was Mother of God, Queen of Heaven etc.
You lack of belief in the Trinity may make it more difficult for you to understand what we are saying.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/2/06

Sure the world is wicked but you ain't seen nothin yet! Remember history, when there were barbarians who ruled the world. Not like today but worse! It can get like that again, in fact the Bible says it will and WILL be worse! This is why we must bring in the harvest while we can.
---Jammie on 1/1/06

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1Cliff, I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I also believe Jesus is God who was came in the flesh. 1Timothy 3:16
Mary was the vessel from whom Jesus' earthly body was born. Jesus exsisted from the beginning. Mary was only his earlthy mother. Jesus has no heavenly mother. Mary is not and was not deity. Great is the mystery. I don't need proof, that Jesus is God. I take it by faith in what is written in scripture.
---Ulrika on 1/1/06

Ralph, i'm not naive. If i would disclose to you just a few of the things that i have suffered you simply would not believe me. But i speak from personal experience, the wickedness was next to nothing in Lot's day as compared to today.
---Eloy on 1/1/06

Alan; You're off on a different road there. What I said there is that trinitarians believe that Jesus was God,in the flesh here on earth.Mary was the mother of that "fleshly"Jesus. If you believe that He was God at that time and that she(Mary) bore Him, was she NOT His Mother??? You have to admit that Mary was "God's" earthly mother for 33 1/2 yrs, Right?
---1st_cliff on 1/1/06

Moderator "It is because I do alot of blocking. Don't kid yourself, it is even worse - just not noticed because of blocking" I had not thought of that! But why not allow their insults and accusations to be published? Or similarly block those that attack the RC in such a way? At least then we would get a fair and balanced view of both sides of the RC debate.

Moderator - Sometimes some of the bloggers Christian or Catholic just go too far. We allow up to the line posts, however I wish the bloggers would not try to test the boundaries.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/1/06

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Cliff ... it has been said here often enough that Mary was the mother of the human Jesus. But God existed from long before that. The Bible says that the Word (i.e. God) became flesh. Mary was the mother of that flesh. She was not the mother of the Word before it became flesh.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/1/06

Bruce ... #1 I agree with what you say ... but the point I had been making was that when I read Emcee's blogs, and Ruben's, I see some sense, and (what are to me a non-RC) a lot of silly and misguided comments, and failure to address the question posed to them. But they NEVER show visciousness and accusations of lies and evil, either to other contributors or their churches.

Moderator - It is because I do alot of blocking. Don't kid yourself, it is even worse - just not noticed because of blocking.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/1/06

Eloy, Don't be naive, It was way worse back then during Lots time, (The angels God sent were molested) but it may catch up in the future. God forbid!
---Ralph on 1/1/06

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