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Is There Irresistible Grace

Do you believe in "Irresistible Grace"

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 ---mima on 1/9/06
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Rev Herb; yes I stand totally against all 5 points of Calvinism!!---mima-1/9/2006
---mima on 9/12/08

StevenRem 7000,

Amen brother! Good post!

Lord bless you,
---trey on 10/30/07

Do you believe that all those that died in the wilderness went to hell?
No not all and no not Moses

Many will say if one leaves the church, or doesn't respond to the Preacher's plea, they were never one of the elect.

I'll have to differe w/ya on this one.
there's is a initial repentence when one comes to faith and he is born from above. Though he may afterwards (how long?) backeslide.
The theif was on his death bed BUT had been made a new creature in Christ
later i enjoyed :-)
---steven-rem7000 on 10/29/07

Hey trey

I'm with you preservaton would have been a better term and is a better term.Do you believe Solomon went to hell?
No, He backslide for quite whiiiiile... But his conclusion was Ecl12:13 "fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man" God did chastise him just by letting him do his thing. He missed the commune of God and was let known all other gods are idols in his idoltry.
Gods love never changes and that is ONE of the pictures presented here.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/29/07

Hey StevenRem, good to hear from you.
Again, my problem is with the doctrine of Perseverance. I do not believe that all the elect will persevere, but I do believe that all the elect will be saved eternally.

I believe in the doctrine of Preservation of the Saints, which is the true Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

I read in the scriptures that the Lord loved Solomon (2nd Sam 12:24, Neh 13:26).
---trey on 10/26/07

Hey StevenRem, (part 2)

I also read that the Lord changes not.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

If the Lord ever loves one, he loves them forever. They do not go to hell.

If the Lord's people sin, he doesn't cast them away. Psalms 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
---trey on 10/26/07

Hey StevenRem, (part 3)

I've never read where Solomon repented, yet the Lord loved him. Why? Because he was one of his elect. Do you believe Solomon went to hell?

Another example: All of the Children of Israel were delivered from Egypt (shadow of Christ delivering us from sin & hell). Even though they were delivered from Egypt, all but 2 died in the wilderness (shadow of God's people living outside the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth).
---trey on 10/26/07

Hey StevenRem, (part 4)

Do you believe that all those that died in the wilderness went to hell? How about Moses? He wasn't allowed to enter the promise land (again a picture of the church or Kingdom of God here on earth).

Many will say if one leaves the church, or doesn't respond to the Preacher's plea, they were never one of the elect.
---trey on 10/26/07

Hey StevenRem (part 5):

I believe they may fail in their walk (example: Solomon), or they may never respond outwardly to the preached word (example: children of Israel in the wilderness), but a child of God will respond internally to the voice of Christ (example: the thief on the cross), and that's what really counts. (also see:John 10:27, and Rom 8:33).

Hope this helps you to understand my point.

Lord bless you dear brother,
---trey on 10/26/07

Hey trey,
Just FYI those points either stand together or they fall (fail).One can't say he is elect and not know his depravity . One can't say he believes in the atonement and Christ not keep him.Jude24
If you don't have perservernce (you keep ourself) you just have a few doctrines then God didn't really save you.
If God doesn't do it all he didn't do nothing at all Eze36:23..
---steven-rem7000 on 10/24/07

Hi Rev. Herb,

Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistable Grace, Perseverance of the Saints.

I believe in 4 of the 5. I do not believe that all the saints will persevere. I do believe that all the saints will be Preserved in Christ (that's true OSAS).

Bless all of you,
---trey on 10/22/07

Does T.U.L.I.P mean anything to you?
---Rev_Herb on 10/20/07

2. pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me; for they are thine." (Mark 13:20), "For the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened those days (at the destruction of Jerusalem). This are just some of the passages I wanted you to look at and you don't have to believe them, but they are the Word of God. I don't have to go far to see who saved me. (God). again if you have and answer why those are their and don't mean what they say, I sure would like to know. Thanks
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

Hi again Alan, I just read your last statement, and would like for you to ponder on this passages, and when you do just think how you can reconcile them in your theory. (John 15:16,) "Ye did not choose me, but I chose you" (John 6:65), "No man can come unto me,except it be given unto him of the Father. (John 6:37), "All that the Father giveth me shall come unto me." (John 13:18),"I speak not of you all; I know whom I have chosen." (John 17:9), "I (Jesus)
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

4. Alan thank you very much for answering. I will continue to press the fact that God is Sovereign to whoever wants to hear. Whoever doesn't, it is out of my hands. God has told us through His word who He is and how He did things, and how it will end. Scripture is complete. He is the Potter and we are just clay. I hope you have a great day in the Lord, and blessings.
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

Lupe ... We have both accepted Jesus ... but cannot prove why or how that happened ... free-will or God's compulsion. I thank God that our undersatnding how ths works is not a salvation issue. Bless you.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/18/06

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Lupe ... I follow not man's point of view, but the words that Jesus spoke. Read those first, and the words of Paul do not mean that we have no choice as to whether we are saved or not.
Neither of us can prove our point. I made a decision ... but cannot prove that God did not make me make it. You think that God made you accept Him, and I cannot prove that you accepted him under freewill !!!
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/18/06

3. I find myself wondering where man got all those powers, how they can save themselves and then after save they can give it up and go to hell. They can bring people from the dead alive, they can make themselves wealthy, change a volkswagon to a Roylce, they can do just about everything. What do they need God for? Why pray to God and ask Him to save our children when they can save themselves. We should pray to them instead. This was just my opinion and my feelings, not from Scripture.
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

2. you can do what most out there do. Nothing, and follow man's point of view, that he saves himself, or you can follow God's point of view, that He saves you. There is no question that the decision is yours along. I don't have any problem in excepting the fact that God saved me. I am humble enough to believe there was nothing good in me that is for sure. And just thank God for saving me and having mercy on me. I sure didn't deserve it. You don't have to answer to my statement, but let me say how I feel,
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

Thank you Alan for listening. You didn't have to read it. You ask and I gave and then you turn and tell me what I read is wrong. Well, it is written whether you believe in it or not. I did not write it. It just goes to show that Scripture is not been used in its totality. You said it right. People use the verses they want. i gave you almost the whole chapter. The whole book of Eph. states who you were before Christ, who you followed, and finally and finally who saves you.
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

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Lupe ... Luke 15 20 Does this sound like the reaction of a man who had controlled the return of his son? No, the prodigal's return was not expected.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/18/06

Lupe ... Look at Christ's words in Mark 16 15 & 16.. It is clear from this that those who believe will be saved and those who do not believe will be condemned, Salvation or condemneation FOLLOW belief or not believing. There is no suggestion that God decides who will believe and be saved.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/18/06

Lupe you believe that because you find a verse in the Bible which can be interpreted to support what you wish to believe. Others find verses in the Bible where Jesus says "Come unto me ALL ... " And John says "Whosoever believes ..." With those as a starting point, the verses you rely on can be seen to have a different interpretation which is not that of God creating the majority of the human race purely to send them to torment.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/18/06

6 Of course you would say it is unfair, as many do. But as Paul continues He quotes from Ex. 33:19, in response to the accusation that such a teaching about God's sovereign election is inconsistent with His fairness, Paul cites this text from the Old Testament that clearly indicates that God is absolutely sovereign and does elect who will be saved without violating His other attributes. He determines who receives mercy. verse 14, "is there unrighteousness with God?" the answer is in verse 16,
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

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5. resides solely in His own sovereign plan, perfect example of election unto salvation. God has chosen some Jew-and some Gentiles-but not all, for salvation. "not of works but of Him who calls" The fact that God made His choice of Jacob before the boys were born and apart from personal merit demonstrates that election unto spiritual life is unrelated to any human effort, and is based only on the prerogative of God who makes His selection. (8:29; 1 cor. 1:9).
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

In my repiy to Rev.Herb I was wrong I meant to say I stand totally for all 5 points of Calvinism.
---mima on 1/18/06

4. before they had done anything good or evil, God's choice of Jacob, instead of Esau, to continue the physical line was not based on his personal merit or demerit. "the purpose of God according to election" Rather God's choice of Jacob resides solely in His own sovereign plan, a perfect example of election unto salvation. God has chosen some Jew-and some Gentiles-but not all, for salvation. "not of works but of Him who calls" The fact that God made His choice of Jacob
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

3. of Hagar and Keturah were not chosen to recive the national promises made to him. Yet, if you continue, "Children of God" Paul's point is that just as not all of Abrahams's descendants belonged to the physical people of God-or national Israel-not all of those who are true children of Abraham through Isaac are the true spiritual people of God and enjoy the promises made to Abraham's spiritual children (4:6, 11; 11:3,4). verse 11, The children, Jacob and Esau,
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

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2. So far God is telling us who are the children of promise and it is not all of Israel. (verse7) To illustrate the truth of v.6 Paul reminds his readers that even the racial and national promises made to Abraham were not made to every physical descendant of his, but only to those who came through Isaac. Only Isaac's descendants could truly be called the children of Abraham, the inheritors of those racial and national promises (Gen 17:19-21). "Children of the flesh" Abraham's other children
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

Alan, it's not my theory, it is written, check my answer to Bruce on the "Depravity of man" blog. I put down from Scripture. Romans 9:6, "But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, Nor are they children becuase they are the seed of Abraham; but, In Isaac your seed shall be called." so far God is saying, this previliges God had revealed to Israel ("not all Israel who are of Israel") will get the promises.
---Lupe2618 on 1/18/06

Lupe, if God choses and in effect makes those who will repent, why is there so much joy in heaven when that sinner does repent? If God choses who will come back to Him and makes them do it, why was the father so pleased when the Prodigal returned. Why did God make all those whom He will not call back to Him?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/17/06

4. Man gets the glory, and God gives thanks for choosing Him. Now, how silly is that? That God is trying so hard and is failing in His work to accomplish His purpose because man don't let Him. I think people ought to think twice before choosing this theory. God is Lord and Master of everything. He gets the glory, He get the honor and no man can thwart His hand.
---Lupe2618 on 1/13/06

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3. When people read the definition of "irresistable grace" they don't like it. Yet Jesus tells us "you did not choose me, I chose you" And if God gives you the faith to believe, together with the rependence, then no one can refuse the work of the Holy Spirit. Now man doesn't want to turn their rights to God so he refuses to except that God is control. Even the one's that are saved. Thus man, not God, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.
---Lupe2618 on 1/13/06

2. Christ. He is not limited in His work of applying salvation by man's will, nor is He dependent upon man's cooperation for success. The Spirit graciously causes the elect sinner to cooperate, to believe, to repent, to come freely and willingly to Christ. God's grace therefore, is invincible; it never fails to result in the salvation of those to whom it is extended."
---Lupe2618 on 1/13/06

Irresistible Grace: "In addition to the outward general call to salvation which is made to everyone who hears the gospel, the Holy Spirit extends to the elect a special inward call that inevitably brings them to salvation. The external call (which is made to all without distinction) can be, and often is, rejected; whereas the internal call (which is made only to the elect) cannot be rejected; it always results in conversion. By means of this special call the Spirit irresistibly draws sinners to
---Lupe2618 on 1/13/06

If I may:
T otal depravity of man: Every one is born in sin and incapable of redemption on their own
U nconditonal election: If you are predestined to be saved (the elect) you will be
L imited atonement: Jesus only died for those who will be saved
I resistable grace: If you are one the elect, you WILL come to Him
P reseverence of the saints: Once saved you can never be lost
---Bruce5656 on 1/11/06

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Thanks EMG, but those words are not self explanatory. Are you able to say what they actually mean
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/10/06

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin; Unconditional Election; Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement);
Irresistible Grace; Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved).
---emg on 1/10/06

Not all of the 5 points are wrong.
---Rev_Herb on 1/9/06

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