Son Keeps Debating The Bible
I'm ready to toss out my 19 year old! He's very bright, contributes at home, works, and is working on a degree at our local college. His problem; he loves to debate, questioning the Bible, asking questions I or the pastor can answer. The pastor threw him out of church! My husband is at his wits end!
Moderator - Good, maybe he can go to law school. Put him on these blogs if he wants to debate.
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---Dakota on 2/20/06
Helpful Blog Vote (15)
I know Dakota is no longer with us but just a comment on the young man who wanted to debate. I believe many start debating to prove they are right but are wrong. But through their debates they find the Truth they never knew.
Second, if the person really knows the Truth, their passion sometimes is persistent. They don't want to give up debating certain people, because they feel responsible for the salvation of that person.
Whatever this young man's intentions were, only God and he knows. It is a good idea to study so that whoever he is debating with, knows how to debate the Truth.
---MarkV. on 10/2/10|
You take great personal offense when I challenge or question what you say.
---Cluny on 9/28/10
Now now Cluny.
I never know if its your question or your cats.
But keep trying to debate me my friend. It is entertaining.
---John on 10/1/10|
\\Most Christians would welcome ALL questions. Certainly Paul did.
Is this "The Church of Christ" or similar?
---John on 7/7/10\\
Well, you're certainly not "most Christians," John.
You take great personal offense when I challenge or question what you say.
---Cluny on 9/28/10|
Your son sounds like me. I was raised in church and asked pressing questions from about 6 years old. I never got satisfactory answers, and left the church at 16.
At 27, i fell headlong after the Charismatic doctrines. Then I encountered other beliefs. I also have a copy of "The Lost Books of the Bible" and other books. I was almost disowned by my mother when I was saved (through faith) at 28. I challenged everything they taught, and continually pressed her to either prove me wrong or change her beliefs. The point? His mannerism seems wrong like mine was. BUT, if you don't have answers, maybe you need to study to have some. My mother was saved after I was, in part because of my "debating".
---James_L on 9/27/10|
Yeah i think you should put him on Blog, maybe he will learn something else from other people up here and we will learn something from him too, i would love to here him debate..............
---miran8877 on 9/24/10|
God loves an honest question. All honest relationships involve conversation, questions and answers. God wants honest relationships with us. He is thinking about God's word, trying to understand it. If you don't want your son, send him to our parish, we would welome him with open arms.
---ann on 8/15/10|
It SURE sounds like You, Your Pastor, and Your church is trying to indoctrinate him!
He asking questions that don't fit your churches traditions. Sounds like a cult!
Most Christians would welcome ALL questions. Certainly Paul did.
Is this "The Church of Christ" or similar?
---John on 7/7/10|
Sounds like your son has a problem with pride, rebellion, and idolitry. Pride is when he acts like the devil the most - because that is the devil's nature. Rebellion is the sin of witchcraft (worshipping the devil). Idolitry is when you have other gods (including yourself as God). All of this could be due to his eduction - he is too bright for his own good, and will eventually stumble and fall. He thinks he is right and God is wrong - he is really argueing with God, not parents or pastor. Pray for him, that these would be broken from him, and the blinders be taken off of his eyes, so he can see.
---Leslie on 7/6/10|
\\Rebellion is always against the Lord.\\
That's what the Royalists said at the time of the American Revolution, because the CONSERVATIVE Bible believers were such.
OTOH, the Patriots claimed, "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God."
---Cluny on 7/4/10|
Do not throw out your son.
All you will prove is that you are a hypocrite since you do not follow the Bible to love Him in spite of what he is questioning.
Check the questions and look up answers use this as an opportunity to grow. Many Pastors prefer those who just shut up and sit down without asking questions since they don't know the answer.
Some questions are good and meaningful some are just to irratiate. Which kind is your son asking?
---Samuel on 7/2/10|
Yea, gang up on the Preacher.
It was the son that was causing the problems. He can write me and others to get REAL answers ---Elder on 6/28/10
I understand your points, not arguing, but would point out that only Scripture and YAHSHUA have any answers.
GODly men have/can/may point out multiple witnesses in scripture that testify.
No Man, more especially indoc'd/denom preachers have answers. Sounds to me like the son did not cause "the" problem....lack of guidance/pointing by weak sheepherders allowed the fire.
The academic world has thown more wood on the fire that was never smothered by multiple scriptural witnessing truths.
This can end good. A whole heart seeker can find what he seeks.
---Trav on 7/2/10|
The word of God is spirit and it's life. With that said, but for the spirit of God living in a person there is no way one can fully understand scripture. If your son has a carnal or fleshly mindset, he isn't going to understand scripture. If he isn't saved, pray God will save him and fill him with His Spirit. Please understand, just because he's debating with you doesn't mean God isn't dealing with him. Be blessed! shary8757
---sharyn on 6/30/10|
Better someone with questions than an unthinking robot following along. If the followers of Jim Jones had this kind of inquiry mind they would still be alive. They are dead from taking taking his poisoned kool aid.
---DM on 6/28/10|
I think Moderator had best response
As for throwing out a RESPONSIBLE son? this is more "christian" than his mind questioning?
if all parents ONLY had responsible children with "problem" of questioning belief systems
instead of attempting to CONTROL your sons MIND and MAKE HIM believe what YOU want him to believe allow him to exercise his GOD GIVEN FREE WILL
Apostles told us to work out our own salvation NOT OTHERS including our own childrens - or in this case your adult children
if you are not interested in his debates change the subject rather than encouraging him to continue to challenge
aside from the fact YOU or the minister don't have all the answers
---Rhonda on 6/28/10|
Yea, gang up on the Preacher.
It was the son that was causing the problems.
A Pastor doesn't have the authority to "Throw" someone out of the church. That is probably another "story" your son told. I have dealt with many of these people in the past. They don't want answers. They want people to see how much they "know."
If your son wanted real answers he would have set an appointment and met with the Pastor.
Get real about your son for his benifit. If he wants some real answers tell him about CN. He can write me and others to get REAL answers if he really wants them.
It is my guess that we will never hear from him. He cannot cause division here so it won't excite him too much. Tell him I said so!
---Elder on 6/28/10|
Francis: You should have thrown the pastor out of the church for failing to answer ALL biblical questions.
Pastors do not have to be able to answer EVERYTHING, only GOD does that
In case you did not know
It is better the pastor says 'I don't know enough to answer that' than that he thinks of something 'smart' to say, that is not God's truth
---peter3594 on 6/28/10|
Mine does that too. he ask questions NOBODY can answer..I tell him to go read the bible, and ask God to show him, I don't argue with him about it anymore..He has slowed down on it A LOT! Just try not to let him get to you..They run into people on line and other places who put these questions in their heads. Keep praying for them. DON"T Toss him yet.
---a_friend on 6/27/10|
Robyn, very good answer! :-)
---a_friend on 6/28/10|
You may just have to tolerate this quirk of your son's until he moves out. It can be frustrating. Questioning never ends.Debating can go on and on. It has to be an end somewhere.I would entertain him for a while, some days but then,let him know it is time to do other things. Switch gears. Time to prepare dinner, go to store etc...The bible also tell us to not debate and argue over spiritual things. Romans ch 13,14. Show him these scriptures and this may slow the questions down. We should not try to harp on differences in Christianity. We should focus on what we have in common. Some questions we will not have answers to-- and that's ok. Jesus will set all of that in order when He comes.
---Robyn on 6/26/10|
His problem, he loves to debate, questioning the Bible, asking questions I or the pastor can answer. The pastor threw him out of church! My husband is at his wits end!
Ha, he sounds like my kinda guy. I love him already. I found my answers in scripture....no preacher could answer. He can find his. If he wants a debate...I'm not challenging...but, I'll point out scripture that is undebatable. There is a debater that has every 2nd proof. Tell him there is a guy on CN that every one dislikes because he post scripture that is upsetting.
Luke 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
---Trav on 6/4/10|
It sounds like your son is not saved, and has an pharasaical and antiChrist mind. The Bible tells us that "the natural person receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to that one: neither can know that one, because they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2:14. Until your son accepts that 1) there is a supernatural God whom transcends the natural and can do all things. and 2) he becomes saved and receives the mind of Christ. Then he will always be at odds with the Spirit, and trying in vain to compare the supernatural against the limited natural that he understands.
---Eloy on 6/4/10|
He is NOT a Pastor but a Facade.
---JOHN on 6/4/10|
You should have thrown the pastor out of the church for failing to answer ALL biblical questions.
Sounds to me like the pastor is a POSER
---francis on 6/3/10|
Whoa! Sounds like your pastor was afraid of "losing" the argument. I think you must have meant "questions you can't answer (not can)...and that's the problem.
Searching out the truth is normal for a 21 y/o. And that's good. You don't want him to believe just because the pastor says so. He needs to make his faith his own. There are several good internet sites on "Christian apologetics" that will help you with most of his questions.
If he is argumentative out of rebellion, and like "atheist" on this blog, just asking in order to challenge you and show off his "superior" mind...don't get drawn into the discussion.
Actually, He sounds like a fine young man.
---Donna66 on 6/3/10|
This sounds exactly like my 21 year old son. He is driving our family crazy. I just told my Mom this might be a good thing. We all should be hungry for the understanding of the word. These could be preachers someday. Seek and ye shall find. We just have to pray for the answer. Some things will be known in when God is ready. I think your pastor should have understood that your son is being led by God to ask these questions. God made him like this for a reason. I was worried at first about my sons beliefs but I see now this doesn't have to be a bad thing. Blessed are those who hunger for the word for they shall be filled.
---Lori on 6/3/10|
As a part-time Christian and part-time agnostic, I relate to your son. If he is a decent person, I believe the best things you can do are:
1. Love him and listen to him with respect.
2. Be honest with yourself and with him.
3. Don't force everything on him. Encourage him to find truth and goodness and make them a part of his life.
4. Try your best not to be hypocritical or pharisaical.
---stephen on 12/5/07|
Let your son question things. He is at an age where he is starting to think for himself, form his own opinions. Allow him to explore those things, don't force your beliefs or values on him, it's just going to drive the wedge between you even further apart.
And I don't think it was fair of your pastor to through him out of the church either. What does that say about the church to you son?
---Katie on 12/5/07|
My son, at a similar age, became very challenging regarding the bible but he stopped going to church before he started his challenge. It was a very tough time but, because I was prepared to listen to his questions and didn't pretent I knew it all and didn't make him feel stupid for asking, he gradually calmed down. He is now a solid bible believing Christian and sometimes we have a laugh about just how challenging he was. Ignoring young people's questions is never helpful.
---RitaH on 12/5/07|
I really do not believe throwing him out of the church was the answer. All you have to do is to learn to ignore blasphemers. Also, if the preaching is powerful enough, strong enough, noone needs to be thrown out, they will run out.
---catherine on 12/4/07|
Write me at elder2291 and I will give you my email address and he can write me although I am not good at debating.
---Elder on 12/4/07|
I've got 2 words for Dakota: Study up.
This sounds like a great oppertunity.
A few years ago, my youngest son got into KJV only. I never really thought about it before that. I've been doing a lot of research since then and have learned tons on the subject.
---JohnE on 3/26/07|
There are many Christians with the same feelings about TBN that your son has. I'm assuming that it is a channel that you and your husband watch a lot and that you believe is 100% genuine. Your son is showing intelligence to question and debate issues about which he wishes to know more. You should not stifle this unless he is being blasphemous and extremely insulting to you both. Try to use this opportunity to guide him into the truth.
---m.p.a. on 3/26/07|
Your pastor was wrong. The Bible can withstand every debate, and if you son loves to debate then he should. Some can go through their whole life on blind faith, and this is fine. But for others, they need to test everything so that they can know for themselves that they are on solid ground.
Furthermore, it is important for faith to mature. The faith of our youth comes from our parents, but as an adult we need to receive it for ourselves and make it our own.
---lorra8574 on 3/25/07|
If he were my son I'd be very proud of him. He's still so young. Love him! Thank God for him! My son was also an intellegent kid, high IQ and loved to question everything. As my son is not around anymore to question everything, your's is. Tell your husband to lighten up. And go to another church that isn't so afraid of questions.
---sue on 3/25/07|
You should be grateful your son wants to learn and asks questions. Find him good spiritual reading and tell him to study his Bible. Put him on these blogs. Find people that can answer his questions, before he looks for answers in other religions. Pray for him.
---Junia on 3/25/07|
Wonderful your son sounds like my kind of guy. And the fact that he is debating the Bible and asking questions makes me know for sure that God is dealing with him. People that God is not dealing with certainly do not debate the Bible or have anything to do with the Bible. Hold on, he is maturing and learning by the day.
---mima on 3/25/07|
For me this blog is really filled with humor as my imagination spins back towards the past. You are not alone! My parents were also at their wit's end dealing with their eldest son and older children who sided with my elder brother in relation to believing on the bible and going away from the RCC doctines! As a parent, be patient. You must be happy with the questions! It means your son is eager to learn. He needed more understanding and more patience.
---Linda6546 on 3/21/06|
To the parents of their child they kicked out, maybe you should take a closer look at TBN. It maybe to late for you to take that closer look, you have watched it so long you threw your son out. Do you love the prosperty gospel? Really pay attention to what they teach. If he were my son I would bring him home.
---Thomas on 3/19/06|
The only way to learn is by asking questions. You need to be ready to give him answers. If you don't know the answer, find it before you try to answer.
---Thomas on 3/19/06|
Dakota, it sounds to me as if your pastor's definition of 'authority' means "Everyone must agree with me". Does he, or do you, want your son to just pretend to accept all that the pastor says to 'keep the peace'? He'd be a wimp if he did. Your son is showing you that he is intelligent and no push-over. As the moderator says, let him debate on ChristiaNet. He might just get what he is looking for.
---M.A. on 2/28/06|
Dakota:I was raised in a home where debate was expected, my father used to mention a subject, and say you get one side and I'll get the other, and the debate was on. I know you're presently upset but please be encouraged, your son has time (at 19) on his side. Debate will increase his knowledge and knowledge of the Lord is as wrong inducement to salvation and service unto the Lord.
---mima on 2/27/06|
I feel sorry for your son. Praise God that our Heavenly Father does not get exasperated with us and throw us out.
Your pastor is wrong about Dead Poets Society. The thesis of the movie is about thinking for oneself and choosing one's own destiny instead of having it chosen for you.
Your son sounds like a great kid. I would be proud to call him my son. He sounds like my boys. With maturity will come refinement of his behavior.
---Madison on 2/27/06|
To respond to believers here. Our pastor said 'Dead poets Society' was anti-authority, humanistic. Our Son is VERY witty, its directed towards what he calls, 'all phonies.' Donald says 'this line you will not cross'- in reference to authority, which Our Son, Jason calls 'a starting line.' The 'secular' school councilors at Cal State think WE are the problem, they say we should not alienate Jason with undue pressure to 'conform to dogma.' This enrages Donald. The contradiction is he does well in school.
---Dakota on 2/27/06|
I am sure our Son will choose law after graduation. What they do in college debate teams is debate on an issue, any issue, abortion, gun control, everything. They have to debate one side of the issue effectively, then the next day argue the other side of the issue, just as 'effectivcely.' Seeing our Son do this one time was too much for my husband, who found it 'unGodly.' He left the building and will not speak to our Son. He has a G.P.A. of 3.8- I am proud of HIm, but seem alone.
---Dakota on 2/27/06|
We belong to a Charismatic church. One thing our Son does is openly make fun of TBN, poking fun of the pastors on it, calling it the 'greatest show on earth' or the 'Elmer Gantry Network.' This exasperates His Father, who this weekend threw him out. Donald, my husband cut him off, so he is now cut back to 12 units at Cal State to work full time to avoid student a loan. I don't mean to use this blog as a sounding board, just wondered what other believers input would be.
Moderator - There are many false doctrines associated with the entities listed above and it sounds like your son is seeing through the hypocrisy and is expressing himself in an inappropriate manner.
---Dakota on 2/27/06|
2. could have made time in which he to talk to him. He just gave up on him. Maybe he has a reason and doesn't have time but I believe he could have done a better job. You cannot make someone's heart change. you cannot save your son, you cannot make him see what you see and feel what you feel. Your relationship with Christ is between you and Christ. Speak to him in love and be prepared with God's Word. Whatever you speak that is Truth will have an effect on him one day. Plant the seed and don't give up.
---Lupe2618 on 2/27/06|
Dakota, I believe it was wrong for the pastor to kick him out. When someone is debating with others, of course they have a different intention in mind, but it is an oportunity for them to hear the Truth. Whatever Truth you give him from Scripture will have an effect on him as he grows up. The seeds are planted and right now you might not see a single evidence but God's Word has power. The question is, how strong are you as a Christian? How about your husband? It seems to me that the pastor could have
---Lupe2618 on 2/27/06|
What is wrong with "Dead Poets Society?" I liked that movie too! My son is now 32, at about the same age he had questions. He was brought up in the church and was a leader among the teens before he went off to college. He has read MANY books on other belief systems and we have had some LONG conversations about them. He has gone full circle and his belief in God is stronger than ever. They are not robots and if they are thinkers they will have questions and doubts. Be ready with answers!
---NVBarbara on 2/23/06|
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Dakota: Why is it wrong for your son to take your daughter to the play? You can have a good dialogue with your daughter about the issues raised in the play.
Dialogue with your children opens up communication and discussing the Truth of scriptures helps them develop their own beliefs.
---Madison on 2/22/06|
Dakota: Your son sounds like my sons. They question and challenge me to give logical answers for my beliefs. Lee Strobel wrote "The Case for Christ" and other books that are good for him to read.
What is wrong with the film "Dead Poets Society?" I love that film.
---Madison on 2/22/06|
I am blessed by the responses. Jason was told to leave when he brought in a book called 'Lost Books of the Bible' and openly expounded on them. Jason took his younger sister to a play, 'Inherit the Wind' and went to a museum with some church youth and, pointing to the fossils, yelled, 'ain't that something.' He brought home a film, 'Dead Poets Society' KNOWING it would upset his Father. He goes on tangents. The college councilers have no issue with him, he even helps other students, are we the problem?
Moderator - What denomination are you?
---Dakota on 2/22/06|
MikeM, why do you see questioning as being rebellion? It is the most natural thing in the world to ask about things. This is the way he will learn. All he will learn from being thrown out of church and/or home is that Christians are not sure enough of what they 'claim' to believe, nor are they as loving as they 'claim' to be. Once he decides that why should he want to know anything further about the Christianity that others 'claim' is so precious?
---M.P. on 2/22/06|
I know people like that, always angling for attention: I say yes, they say no; so I say no, and then they say yes, always in opposition and trying one-upmanship. The source is similar to a religious spirit, and it's disrespectful and insolent conduct for a Christian adult to put out affronts and condescending aires among the leaders of the church.
---Eloy on 2/22/06|
I too have had many problems because of "debating" to get answers. Most of my strongest understanding has come not from being shown the answer, but by being able to clear all the negatives away to reveal the truth. Some things in life can be accepted without reason. The most important need to be yea or nay; no room for maybe. Help him to erase those negatives or help him find those who can, then you both win.
---mikefl on 2/21/06|
Miss Dakota; It seems 10/1 that it is 'ok' for your son to think, only 2 say you have a problem with your son. The more dogmatic ones beliefs are expressed, the more insecure they are with them. More infromation would help.
---SLCGuy on 2/21/06|
What is wrong with questioning? Unless he expresses his difficulties, the things he does not understand, he will never learn. Your pastor must be very unsure of himself if he is not prepared to discuss someone's doubts ... does he not realise that here is a lad needing to be saved. and He is unprepared to do something about it?
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/21/06|
Rebellion is always against the Lord. The OT was very clear about what happened to a rebellious son. Allowing him to continue on in you home that way will only do harm to your whole family. Questioning is a crafty form of rebellion, one crafted by Satan. Contention in the home, OR the the church will only lead to ruin for both. More details should be given, but I suspect the pastor was in his right mind.
---MikeM on 2/21/06|
When our son (about the same age as yours) started questioning the bible it was hard going but we either answered him or found out the answer for him. He asked our friends more than he asked me and my husband and they said "Just wait until he's saved (they KNEW he would be) then there will be no stopping him." And boy wern't they right! Tell your son "Ask away and we'll find the answers." As for your pastor I'd say he's in the wrong job.
---emg on 2/21/06|
Miss Rebecca, You sound like my husband and our pastor. He loves to study the Bible, and other things. He does not get into trouble and seems directed. He is taking science classes, but is considering law. He has the gift of intelligence, and a keen intellect. This 'philosophical disposition' of his is all right when at school, but gets on my husbands and the pastors nerve. He was always that way, and school has made it worse. I am tired of being in the middle. We belong to a Charismatic church.
---Dakota on 2/21/06|
What kind of pastor throws out a 19 year old because he cannot answer his questions? Is there more to this? At least your son was still going to church, many 19 year olds do not these days. He has a God given right to question things. Often those who do the most questioning become the strongest Christians, once they have thrashed everything out that was bothering them. Unless he's done something truly dreadful please don't thrown him out of home as well. Will that answer his questions about the bible?
---M.P. on 2/21/06|
At aged 19 he is old enough to reason for himself. Timothy was preaching at that age and winning converts.Does he want to prove the scriptures right or wrong?
---David on 2/21/06|
A good book for him to study is "The New Evidence that demands a verdict" by Josh McDowell. It has a lot of intense questions people have asked about the Bible.
---wes on 2/21/06|
We would need to know more background information to provide any reasonable analysis.
What are the nature of his biblical questions; be specific. Are they real or is he just arguing to be combative. Tell us more about you church, denomination. The seminaries your pastor attended, academic degree you pastor has. Maybe then we can come up with some operable recomendations.
---Phil_the_Elder on 2/20/06|
There's nothing wrong in debating and/or questioning the Bible. As an past Youth & Eduation Director, I use to encourage to do exactly that. The worse thing a pastor can do is "kick him out of the church". Two things are stated by this -one the pastor doesn't know and is not willing to find the answers and second, the pastor is neglecting a spiritual need in your son. Would suggest you find a pator/church who is not afraid to answer his questions.
---WIVV on 2/20/06|
Satan is working through your son to get to you spiritualy. Satan wants you to be confused, upset, etc. There is a saying He who angers you, controls you. Satan is making you say things you ought not to say or do things you ought not to do. Your son is letting satan contol him by making him question the bible. Pray for his mind, satan has him and he won't let go. When your son starts with this, answer him in a calm voice and speak the truth of the word, if he refuses to listen dust your feet and go on.
---Rebecca_D on 2/20/06|