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Our Reasoning Causes Problems

Do you think our own reasoning sometimes interfers with God's discernment for us in certain areas of our lives?

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 ---Fred_S. on 2/21/06
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You are correct. That is why the Einsteins,Ghandis,Karl Marx and other supposedly great thinkers,philosophers and intellectuals of our times went wrong. Their reasoning and intellectual ability kept getting in the way. When we are led by the Spirit everything does not make sense in the natural realm. God deal with us in the supernatural. They could not understand this concept.
---Robyn on 3/24/08

Absolutely our pitiful, poor, natural, humanistic, reasoning is like an insurmountable mountain from our side of the equation. But of course the love of God and his great and enduring mercy forgive us and looks over our reasoning. If we will totally surrender to Him, He will lead us in the right way, the right decisions will be
made and the mind of Christ will prevail.
---mima on 3/24/08

SLCguy,MM became a mormon some time ago..

I do not believe in sola scriptora, it was coined by Luther, yet he rejected it later, as he rejected James and the Epistles of Peter. Sola Scriptora reduces the Bible to a talisman. It is the hallmark of protestantism, and I am not a protestant.

---SLCGuy on 3/5/06
---Observee on 4/21/07

The Moderator was correct, unforgiveness for his family is the issue.
If the mormon church wasn't adequate enough to answer all of his questions, I guess he had to return here to get rid of all that anger. The mormons probably got tired of it somewhere along the line.
---Observee on 4/21/07

One person here who operates under a prophetic anointing was going on about his insights into scripture. So I'm wondering about that prophetic gift.
---Observee on 4/21/07

We do not apprehend God with reason, humility is a good place to start, and personal prayer.

The lord in his infinite wisdom endowed us with the ability to reason. Now why would he offer us that gift and then require us to forgo its use? Reason is not an end in itself, but a means to an end. Look up reason in the dictionary, the word THINK comes up. Look up the word think and REASON comes up. To tell one not to reason is to tell them not to....?
---SLCGuy on 4/5/07

john t, I just checked online, and the price has really gone up for this precious Bible. Actually you can get a copy on sale now for $2,350.00 here at the Ephrata Bible Society. It is 6 volumes from 1514-1517 called the Complutensia Bible of Alcala Spain, or the "Biblia Poliglota Complutense". But since I have gotten my own copy of The Jerusalem Crown, or the "Keter Yerushalayim"- Thank you Jesus! I won't be needing the ployglot.
---Eloy on 3/2/06

Barbara they ain't mittens. They are cats strapped to my hands. That's why I have the problems. Can't afford no mittens.
---Elder on 3/1/06

I know its cold in your part of the country Elder, but it may be a good idea to take off those mittens before you type! :)
---NVBarbara on 3/1/06

Wow! That's great, Alan! Do you also know how to teach a keyboard to spell? Mine has never learned. :)
---Jeffrey on 2/28/06

You said that once you wanted a $1000 Bible (2/22).

Exactly what sort of a Bible is costing that much money?
---John_T on 2/28/06

Elder ... I have somehow persuaded the PC to remember my name, so whenever I type an "a" in the "Your first name" box, it fills in the whole "Alan8869 of UK" Similarly it remembers my email address and automatically fills that in.
If you have an "autofill" box on you tool bar, this is the one which will do this for you.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/28/06

That Eler guy is Elder. Sometimes I get in too big a hurry and I can't spell check my name.
---Elder on 2/28/06

SLCGuy, didn't you read my answer on 2/24? It's pretty straight forward!

Yes, we are supposed to reason. But we are supposed to reason in harmony with the Word of God (2 Cor 10:5). Otherwise our logic will be illogic!
---Jeffrey on 2/28/06

This is the perfect question because the answers reveal the attitude and displays the real answer.
Everyone has answered from reason/thinking. That is part of SLC_guy answer. Yes, God did create each one of us to think. Adam and Eve were created to think. But, look at what they thought. God says some things about our thoughts. Read Phil 3:12-19. Notice how thinking is OK as long as the thoughts are correct v19.
Cond #2-->
---Eler on 2/27/06

Cond #2-->
We are to present our bodies as a sacrifice to God by changing our minds Rom 12:1-2.
Phil 2:5 tells us to have the mind of Christ.
You see, your mind and thoughts affect your will and attitude toward the things of Christ.
Many have and do live by their own thoughts but is when they change their minds they begin to get things right.
Hebrews 11 has a list of some who did.
---Eler on 2/27/06

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SLC_guy: No! I don't leave my mind at the door to worship God! Many don't seem to see the difference between sinful souls using their brains to commit crimes or trying to prove God doesn't exist (and calling it science) vs. what I'll call pure Logic. It's evil desires, and *assumptions* often based on them, that lead to false deductions about God. We can make _mistakes_ due to emotions, poor health or untrained minds. What corrupts our decisions are pride, 'the flesh' and/or worshipping false gods.
---Daniel on 2/27/06

SLCGuy ... I have not actually addressed it to you, but my straight answer is there.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/26/06

2. many times you make a big mistake because you disobeyed. And you learn from that and move on. I believe what brother Fred wrote is correct and that he was talking about the same thing I was thinking. Our motives and reasons many times conflict with God's reasons for our lives.
---Lupe2618 on 2/26/06

SLCguy, we have been given the attributes of reasoning, and many others. But our decisions are many times corrupt because of the fact that we are in the flesh. We have an old nature that fights with the Spirit of God inside ourselves. It is an ongoing battle. You reason with your own thoughts as to what you feel and think but God reasons with His thoughts that are more important then yours. He is trying to sanctify you and you battle against Him without knowing you are.
---Lupe2618 on 2/26/06

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I still ask the same question, and cannot get a straight answer, I think its a straightforward question; We were endowed with the ability to reason, were we then asked to forgo the use of the gift of reason?
---SLCGuy on 2/26/06

Fred_S wrote: 'Daniel is saying "reason is *not* thinking"' (with quotes). WHERE did I write those words? *IF* I did, it needs to be corrected as I certainly see 'resoning' (or 'to reason') as a verb as being a synonym for 'thinking' but I can't find anywhere that I said what you put down as a quote by me!
---Daniel on 2/25/06

2 Cor 10:5:
Casting down imaginations [reasonings], and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

It's not that we don't think or reason, but that we bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. I.e., we line our thoughts and reasonings up with what God's Word actually says.

When we don't do that, our reasoning is illogical and then, yes, it does interfere with God's Will.
---Jeffrey on 2/24/06

SLCguy says "reason is thinking, and thinking is reason". Daniel is saying "reason is *not* thinking". (heads spinning). I'm just a "simple" man. You can call me Forrest if you like. Let's drop all this philosophical bull a moment. At times you have to read between the lines. From my example of FACTS, I can see there is a lack of faith, which leads to doubt. That's all Satan needs to get a stronghold in our minds so we will not follow God's will.
---Fred_S. on 2/24/06

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3. In fact, he made everyone very uneasy. But, people need to know the truth. You and many make good answers to questions and we all need those messages that you and others bring forward, and it always keeps us on our toes and not just become comfortable where we stand. This is a matter of life for the lost, and for our own learning. No one gets credit, but God.
---Lupe2618 on 2/24/06

2. It is possible that someone here listening to these words in this church, in good health, and very secure could be in hell by tomorrow morning. Finally, even those of you that will live the longest on the earth without Christ still have very little time! Your damnation does not sleep; it will come quickly, and in all probability when you least expect it." Here Jonathan was speaking in a sermon and was not afraid to state the facts. He was not trying to make the congregation comfortable,
---Lupe2618 on 2/24/06

Daniel, I am going to quote from Jonathan Edwards, "If we all knew that there was just one person in the congregation that was going to hell, would that not be a terrible thing? If we all knew who it was, what pity we would have on them! Would not the rest of us be griefstricken and cry bitterly for them? But, listen-instead of just one, many of you will remember these words in hell! In fact, it is possible that before this very year is out some of you sitting here right now will be in hell.
---Lupe2618 on 2/24/06

I want to clarify (maybe preach) that what's wrong with many Christians today isn't their _use of reason_ but rather *not* thinking deeply enough! Instead of Scripture and hymns telling the truth "this world's not my home," they've got houses (here), food, cars, vacations, etc. excessively "on their minds" to the point where prayer is more often for making them feel good OR not allowing someone die, etc. rather asking God what they can do for Him! WHY they're still on this earth?
---Daniel on 2/24/06

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Fred_S: What you listed are FACTS *not* "reason(ing)s"! If God really told you to go, then your 'sinful thoughts' for not going might be: 1)I care more about my dog, 2)It'll be too uncomfortable for me, 3)I don't trust You'll provide a job, etc. See the difference? Logical reasoning says: *If* it's God speaking, that trumps everything else, so go _or admit disobedience_; don't blame 'reason' for what's merely an "excuse"! Of course, this brings up _how_ do we *know* God's Will?
---Daniel on 2/24/06

Thank you Alan, I am sorry for my remarks, And thanks for your email too. I hope you understand what I wrote to you earlier this morning. Have a great day.
---Lupe2618 on 2/24/06

Thanks Lupe. I do not feel that any of my answers would give a non-christian any wrong impressions. It would most likely stir their curosity up even more. If a non-christian is reading this blog, chances are, they have a pretty good idea by now what we as christians believe. SOME OF US...seem to have trouble with the difference between "reasoning" and "logic", or just plan old "common sense".
---Fred_S. on 2/24/06

Lupe, as the Mod has pointed out here, these blogs are read by non-Christians, and it is important that they do not get the wrong idea of what Christians believe.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/24/06

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You see Alan, you did the same to Fred on his answer. I thought he did a great job of explaining that our thoughts or contanminated, he didn't say all of the thoughts, You knew what he meant, why did you still ask? There has to be a reason other then not understanding. I understood the whole message he was giving. The point was, that we need God. You came back and said that men can reason and make choices which of course is true, but we need God, which is the Main point for a Christian.
---Lupe2618 on 2/23/06

But, Fred, this is what you said "Man's reasoning and mental capasity are contaminated by sin and thereby flawed and unacceptable to God" That indicated that all our reasoning is unacceptable to God. You have now restated your position, and I agree with it.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/23/06

Thanks Daniel. Shira worded it more correctly. Alan, the question is not for every thought that runs thru our heads. Here is an example. If it's God's will for me to depart from my life here, and do some mission work, let's say the U.K., I'm going to have about 300 "REASON'S" why I cannot and should not go. But God, I have a good job, my kids like their school, I have a nice home, my church home is here, my family is here, my dog get air sick, I get air sick..etc. This is what I'm talking about.
---Fred_S. on 2/23/06

[Pt.2] for that's the part of us that "interfers" with God's intentions whether we use any 'reasoning' or none at all! Quite often, being 'reasonable' keeps us from sinning more than 'giving in' to our sinful emotions. You're incorrect in saying satan "attacks the mind thru reasoning"; *unless* by 'reasoning' you mean "pride"! It's lust for anything and pride... temptations that he uses to attack us (1 John 2:15-17). God's Spirit inside us is greater than satan!
---Daniel on 2/22/06

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Fred S ... This is what you said only a couple of blogs ago: "Man's reasoning and mental capasity are contaminated by sin and thereby flawed and unacceptable to God"
That certainly indicates that all our reasoning is unnacceptable to God, but perhaps you did not mean that.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/22/06

[Pt.1] Fred_S: I know what you mean (and especially after you added a further note), but what you're calling this ("own reasoning") isn't the best way to say it! I believe Shira's closer, calling it "choices" instead. Many Christians mess up their lives making decisions based more on EMOTION than logic! Isaiah 55:8-9 is very true, but God also said: "Let us REASON together" (Isaiah 1:18). The sinful "I" part of your question _must be emphasized more_... [cont.]
---Daniel on 2/22/06

Our reasoning is the choices we make. Sometimes they are not so good and we get in trouble. God made us creatures of choice.
---shira on 2/22/06

SLCGuy, what are my first 3 words of the question? Take your guns off and just read the question in a general way as the rest of us do. Note the "clue" words I used: SOMETIMES, CERTAIN AREAS. This is a good example of why I ask the question. Some people (not calling any names) just think entirely TOO much on simple little questions. We all already know what we know, it's just nice to find out sometimes what other's know.
---Fred_S. on 2/22/06

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Fred ... do you go in an aircraft? Do you trust the reasoned design of that aircraft? Do you think that God gave man the ability to reason, so that he can to a certain extent, work his own way in the world? I would answer for myself, YES to each of those questions
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/22/06

"Thou shalt not think" is not a commandment.
---SLCGuy on 2/22/06

Man's reasoning and mental capasity are contaminated by sin and thereby flawed and unacceptable to God.
Pr. 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Isa 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
---Fred_S. on 2/22/06

yes, most definitely. Our ways are not His ways and our thoughts are not His thoughts. As high as the heavens are above the earth, so are His ways above our ways and His thoughts above our thoughts.
---christina on 2/22/06

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Absolutely. Our own wisdom can be a terrible spiritual block. Let me share this. A couple of nights ago, I went to bed, praying that God would speak to my heart - not about any certain issue - just speak to my heart. I won't go into detail about what He revealed, but I will say that He did speak to my heart, and it wasn't all milk and honey. He showed me where I need to meditate and listen more to Him.

-- Listen --
---mike on 2/22/06

One of the arguments regularly leveled against Christians, by many unbelievers, is that we have accepted what we believe in blind faith. They think they are too intelligent to believe as we do or they say they will not believe until someone PROVES this, that and the other to them. We have to show them that ours is not a blind faith and that we once questioned things but now have the answers we need. God gave us an enquiring mind as well as 'faith as a little child'.
---M.P. on 2/22/06

yes, because God is the parent, and we are the child. I recall how I wanted this special Bible really really bad, but it cost over a thousand dollars, and I didn't understand why I couldn't just get enough money together to get it. After some years passed I got a much better and cheaper priced one. But all the while that I didn't have the one which I wanted badly, I thought that my God was holding out on me, when in actuality he had something much better for me.
---Eloy on 2/22/06

Fred S ... the person who believes after he has reasoned things out, and conquered doubts, has a stronger faith than one who blindly accepts what he has been told.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/21/06

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Again, why were we endowed with the ability to reason(think) and then asked to forever forego its use?
---SLCGuy on 2/21/06

Satan also attacks the mind thru reasoning, which bring in DOUBT, which WEAKENS our faith.
---Fred_S. on 2/21/06

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