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Are Faith And FactsThe Same

Is it important to know the difference between a 'faith' statement and a 'fact' statement?

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 ---Fred_S. on 3/9/06
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It is a fact that Jesus rose from the dead. It is faith that says, "His resurrection is the guarantee of my forgiveness of all sins."

Thus facts are empirical evidences; but faith is the personal appropriation of those facts.
---John_T on 6/3/08

It is important to know the difference between fact and faith.We christians live by faith.That is why a lot of unbelievers out there cannot comprehend the statments we make.For instance when u have a headache that is a "fact" but the truth(faith)is that by His stripes you are healed and he has taken your infirmities away.jumy6985
---jumy on 10/3/07

It is a fact that I believe that it is important to know the difference between fact statement and faith statements. But only I know that it is a fact ... there is no proof for the rest of you that I believe it ... you would have to have faith that I am telling the truth.
But maybe it is not important ...
---alan_of_uK on 5/29/07

Paulie-- P.S. I do have the gift of tongues. If I'm praying in the Spirit, I don't know what I'm praying. I can only know whether or not a prayer is answered when I pray with understanding.
---Donna on 3/15/06

Paulie, to answer your question re: my "asking for trouble". No, it did NOT come to pass. Later I realized that if it HAD come to pass, I would have been in a big mess, or at least a situation I most likely couldn't handle. Then I thanked the Lord that though I had asked for a "stone", he mercifully gave me "bread" (See Matt 7:9)
---Donna on 3/15/06

For those who believe that "word of faith" is unscriptural, you need to check again Romans 10:6-11. Verse six says, "But the righteousness that is of faith SPEAKETH on this wise...." "What sayeth it (the righteousness that is of faith)? The word is nigh thee, even IN thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach....." Preaching requires opening your mouth and declaring the things out of your heart.

Moderator - The Prospersity gospel is one of the greatest apostate teachings of our times which is sending millions straight to hell.
---Paulie on 3/15/06

"For he that believeth in Me, out of His belly shall flow rivers of living water." "keep your heart with all diligence, for out of it are the issues (the flow) of life." "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks." Need more Scripture?

By the way, I am not saying to confess something to make it so (name it and claim it). I am saying that you will speak out of the abundance of your heart.
---Paulie on 3/15/06 speak what you believe. Therefore let us by Him offer up the sacrifice of praise, the fruit of our LIPS, giving thanks unto His name. "Behold, I create the fruit of the lips." Song of Solomon says that He eats the fruit of our lips and drinks from the well of our salvation. That well springs up (like a fountain) UNTO everlasting life.
---Paulie on 3/15/06

Just because it doesn't happen immediately doesn't mean it doesn't have impact. For those who do not have tongues, I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is in the business of regeneration and restoration.

"That the COMMUNICATION of YOUR FAITH may be made EFFECTUAL by the acknowledging of every good thing that is in you by Christ Jesus." That's scripture.

Just because what you release out of your mouth doesn't result in death (or life) immediately doesn't mean it didn't have some impact.
---Paulie on 3/15/06

"Sometimes I'm asking for trouble and don't even realize it until later!"

How did you realize it later? It came to pass maybe? The words of our mouth are little vessels that contain either the vain imaginations of the carnal mind (which is death) or the mind of the Spirit (which is life).
---Paulie on 3/15/06

As far as granting us what we say... I dare say most people, let alone christians, would be dead if we really got what we say. And, what about the christians in oppressed countries, many of whom have had their tongues cut out? They can't "say" anything. That doctrine just doesn't hold water under close biblical scrutiny. As I said previously, I've been there done that, and know by experience and biblically that it is bad doctrine.
---daphn8897 on 3/15/06

Glad God hasn't always given me "the desires of my heart" in spite of what I have spoken. Sometimes I'm asking for trouble and don't even realize it until later!
---Donna on 3/15/06

Rickey, God gives us the desires of our hearts... yes and no. He first changes our hearts so that our desires line up with His word. "We love Him because He first loved us." "Jacob I loved, Essau I hated." "God hardened the heart of Pharoh." Scripture also says "the heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it?" (and that's not just talking about unsaved folk). If you want to think you can choose... go right ahead, God is even sovereign over that.
---daphn8897 on 3/15/06

Daphn8897, God does grant us what we say. His word said that He would give us the desires of our heart. Our salvation came by us saying something(Romans 10:9-10) GOD cannot force anyone to get saved nor can He chose who will get saved. We have the choice& our words say so. I am not saying God is a geni, but I am saying that He is held accountable to His word.
---Rickey on 3/13/06

SLCguy, Actually, both John T and I did earlier in the blog. Though I think Ulrika did a more suscinct and thorough job than I did (Thanks Ulrika for the definitions!!). And, you are spot on. It is a good question.
---daphn8897 on 3/13/06

Selfish Desire:
We all know the story of Adam and Eve's Eve's saw the fruit of tree and her desire to eat the fruit and afterward she gave it to her man ASdam to eat it!(genesis 3:6) we all are prone to make wrong that a faith or facts ?
---sunny6887 on 3/11/06

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Dear Fred,
Faith is the security of things! Faith also is a relationship. Facts are for historians and has nothing to do with faith. When you understand the meaning of "having a relationship with the Lord", you will not only understand the facts, but also believe the facts.
---Ernst9433 on 3/11/06

Yes, it is. A fact can be supported by data undestandable to anyone. Did Jesus really live? Yes, according to the historical record. Did He sacrifice His life for sinful mankind?
I believe so. But that is a statement of faith. And even a Spirit-filled life may be misunderstood. Maybe I'm just a "good" person. I Cor 2:14 says
"The natural man receives not the things things of.. God for they are foolishness unto him. Neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned".
---Donna on 3/11/06

The question is a philosophical one, it leads the the old 'faith vs. reason' question. In western culture that question was supposedly bridged by the theologian Kerkerigard( spelling?) who believe his limited reason led him to know he needed God, to whom he surrendered his reason, and reason was 'born anew.'

(Ulrika is the first one to answer to attempt to answer what is a good question here, the others are having a private conversation.)
---SLCGuy on 3/11/06

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
fact-somethig said to have occured or suposed to be true. (this is 1 of 5 answers in dictionary)
---Ulrika on 3/11/06

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Paulie: YOU didn't say anything about taking Scripture out of context. I did. That's because many people do it. Actually, some would also disagree with you about the meaning of "by His stripes we are healed".. (I'm not saying that I do), but I'm not going there. I'm happy for you that you didn't need to study in college. I took A&P in college, too, aced them both.. but with so many terms to memorize I had to study. Guess the Lord thought the discipline was good for me. :-)
---Donna on 3/11/06

Saying what He says about who you are in Christ, what you have in Christ, and what you can do in Christ is never out of context, particularly if you know who you are, what you have, and what you can do in Him. I understand the point you are making, but where in my responses do you see me saying that God's Word is to be taken out of context? I merely stated that we are to agree with Him in every circumstance, no matter how it looks.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

That is not a denying of "facts" or "symptoms". That is a defying of them and a magnifying of the Lord and His work. When you magnify someone or something, it becomes bigger in your life. You can magnify the problem and it gets bigger or you can magnify the Lord and the expression of Him in your life becomes bigger. Your choice.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Donna, I never said anything about using His Word out of context. It is not out of context to say, "With His stripes we are and by His stripes we were healed" when we are experiencing symptoms in our bodies. That is called reactive faith. Faith becomes proactive when we begin to thank Him for what He has already accomplished in Christ BEFORE there are any symptoms. With whose stripes we are healed and by His stripes we were healed is true all the time.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

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Since we have been saved in spirit and are being saved in our souls and shall be saved in our bodies, then it simply makes sense that our confession of Jesus as Lord didn't end when we first believed. We began in agreement and we will finish in way or another.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

By the second or third week of that semester, my peers were coming to me and asking me to pray with them before the tests. You can say what you want regarding faith and the words of the mouth but my testimony is true. We cannot even be saved lest we believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths. God Himself established that link.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Well, Donna, I have a testimony in that area. The Word in Proverbs says, "The memory of the righteous is blessed." I believed that Scripture, spoke it continuously in front of my college peers, and aced every Anatomy and Physiology exam I took, without studying, simply remembering it all from the lips of my college professor up to and including the final. This included both paper tests AND the labs where we had to identify parts on models and animals in dissection.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Paulie; I didn't say don't speak or don't speak the Word of God. Yes, the Holy Spirit, resident within us, should naturally flow out of us in attitude and speech and testimony of His greatness. I'm talking about applying Scriptures, regardless of context, to specific situations where they may(or may not)apply. e.g. if I expect to ace my physics exam without studying, because "We(I)have the mind of Christ" (I Cor 2:16) I'll likely be disappointed. I've used His word for MY purposes, not His.
---Donna on 3/10/06

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verse 12 (saying with a loud voice)
verse 13 (heard I saying)
Those are in just chapter 5 alone. In chapter 4, you have verses 8, 9, 10, and 11. That book is full of vessels saying some things and declaring from the heavens. Our God, whom we bless with our mouths, pours back into the earth what we minister to Him because, though He desires our worship, He doesn't need it. He is all sufficient in and of Himself. Now, let's hear how big God is in your life.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb AND the word of their testimony (how much word is in your testimony?) This is where the God in you that cannot be contained speaks. He is the faithful and true witness who gives the testimony.

And finally:

Revelation chapter 4 and 5, you will find that those around the throne are saying a lot:

verse 9 (sung a new song, saying)
verse 11 John heard the voice of many (one voice but many different vessels)
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Hebrews 11:5

And Enoch, before his translation, has this testimony, that he walked with God (must agree to walk with God and agreement comes from the mouth).

And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. Rev.14:5 (verse 4 tells you who this verse is talking about)
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Donna, you are looking at this from the outside in instead of the inside out. The whole point of what I wrote is to remind us all that the God in us (He is the Word and has been from the beginning) MUST overflow simply because He is more than enough for just you, or me, or any single person on the face of the earth.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

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If you esteem Him so much bigger in your life than anything else, then you won't be able to contain the river in you because, by its very nature, it overflows. That is what I am talking about. After all, if we were all flowing in the greatness of the God within us, everything that flowed out of us would bring life to all it touches (see Rev.22). SLC guy, I answered the question.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

When those in the upper room were MADE witnesses by the baptism of the Holy Ghost, they SPOKE. The truth is a man named Jesus and He is the Word come in the flesh in His body (has, is, and shall come) and, since He is the faithful and true witness, let's hear Him speak through you and give testimony to His place in your life. That's what I mean by God being no bigger in your life than in your mouth.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Again, that is not "us calling the shots". That is us being His voice in the earth and that voice making a difference. By virtue of what you just said (God is bigger in my life than in my mouth), then let's hear how big He is in your life. That's your testimony, isn't it, and a testimony comes out of your mouth. Witnesses are called to give testimony and they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so HELP ME GOD. That's sounds like yielding to righteousness.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

The Christ in you will eventually come out of your mouth. There is a reason He is called the Word and there is a reason that the Word was made flesh. There is also a reason why He said that milk and honey (promise land) is under your tongue and a reason He makes such a big deal of the tongue in the book of James. The tongue is so set among our members that the whole body is bridled by it. It can set on fire the very course of nature. God said that, not me. I just agree with Him.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

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Donna, if you will go back and read what I said, you will understand that I am not saying that we "call the shots". I am talking about saying what He says to, in, and through you. We ARE called to agree to walk with Him and agreement comes out of the mouth. It is not what goes into a man that defiles a man but what comes out of his mouth. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks (there's the key right there...the heart and mouth are linked).
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Paulie: God is a LOT bigger in my life than he is in my MOUTH. How tragic our lives would be if God was limited to act only on the basis of what we say. In fact, He would then no longer be God! The FACT of the matter is, WE don't get to call all the shots in life. Thankfully He overlooks a lot of things people say and does what He knows is best. Because I know that HE is in control, not I, it is easier to have FAITH in Him.
---Donna on 3/10/06

I was involved in a Word of Faith church for over 6 years, in leadership. So I fully understand that teaching. I also know how corrupt and man centered it can be. I can't tell you how many times it was implied that "you know the gospel, now let's move on to more important things.." Very dangerous thinking indeed.
---daphn8897 on 3/10/06

Paulie; Your point is taken. All faith is trancendent in nature, ther 'natural man' is locked into the physical, but the question remains........
---SLCGuy on 3/10/06

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Ricky, I know exactly the scriptures to which you are referring, and am very familiar with your stand. But, God is not Santa Claus, granting us our wishes just because we say them, or a geni that has to obey our commands. He is GOD. Our ability to say anything correctly or of value is entirely up to Him. He holds our very breath in His hands.
---daphn8897 on 3/10/06

We could spare ourselves lot of sorrow and heartache if we would simply bow our hearts and yield our tongues (that little member no man can tame) to the Lord. It is just as much sin to disagree with God using our tongues as it is to physically murder someone, seeing that we do more damage with our mouths than we do with our hands.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

I always tell people that, in any circumstance, we should not speak until Jesus, the Faithful and True Witness living inside of us (who always declares Himself and His work...the truth), speaks. Then we are to agree with what He says.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

When we "awake unto righteousness", we need to feed on His body and His blood. All those unbelieving folks outside missed the whole thing....and Jesus knew their unbelief because of what they spoke out of their mouths. Out of the abundance of the heart......
---Paulie on 3/10/06

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He said she was sleeping and was laughed to scorn. You know what He did with those folks? He put them out because of their unbelief. Those who won't believe will never see His power. He carried in with Himself only Peter, James, and John and Jairus. Jesus spoke the word and that girl got up. The very next thing He told them to do was to give her something to eat.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Jesus gets to the house and there are all kinds of professional mourners there who are there because they believe the girl is dead. Their eyes are on the problem instead of the answer and about all that will make someone is a professional mourner. I know a lot of Christians like that. The facts were that the girl was dead. Those who were looking at the facts were mourning. However, the Truth was on His way in and He had a different view.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

When Jesus was on His way to heal Jairus' daughter, Jairus was met by some folks with a lot of unbelief in their mouths. Jesus told Jarius, "Don't be afraid. Only believe." Notice that He spoke for Jairus and then didn't even give him a list of things to do. He didn't tell him to go home and read his Bible more or pray more or fast more....He told him to ONLY believe.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Good question. I have read all the answers to this interesting question. Not one person has dealt with the issue the question, an intelligent one, asks. Faith is subjective, facts are objective, apples and oranges. A 'faith statement'is a statement of belief, a 'fact statement' is a statement based on objective reality. It is a denial of reality, (and not faith) to invest in a 'faith' that has crashed into objective reality. Lets get the horse and cart properly aligned, or am I missing the point?
---SLCGuy on 3/10/06

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God will be no bigger in your life than He is in your mouth. Milk and honey (promise land) is found under the tongue and the tongue of the wise IS health.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

The truth is truth whether we sin or experience symptoms or not. Jesus is the Truth and He is unchangeable and uncompromisingly righteous. We need to be thankful who Jesus is and His work of redemption. He made us heirs of God and joint-heirs with Himself and it is in Him that we HAVE redemption through His blood. What you are thankful for will grow in your life.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

Faith always has its foundation in the Truth. Facts are but truth is. We may experience symptoms in our bodies. Those are facts. But the truth is "with whose stripes I am healed" and "with whose stripes we were healed." We may have sinned yesterday. The fact is that we missed the mark but the truth is that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus because Jesus was made sin with our sin. Faith always carries the good report of the Lord.
---Paulie on 3/10/06

We are supposed to declare what the word says in IPeter 2:24. When we do this we will be doing what Jesus said in Mark 11:22-23.
(Job 22:28; 2Corinthians 4:13; Proverbs 6:2; Romans 10:9-10; Proverbs 18:20-21) Jesus spoke to the sea and the storm ceased. He said we would do what He did. We were created in the Godhead's image and after Their likeness. He spoke/declared something and it came to pass, so we can too.
---Rickey on 3/10/06

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Daphn8897, I would just like to share some scriptures with you on the topic of having what you say. (Mark 11:22-23) Jesus told us to "Have the faith OF God." God, by faith, spoke somethings into being(Genesis 1) When He was restoring the earth, He spoke/declared something and it came to pass. By faith we as christians are to speak what the Word says and expect it to come to pass. For example, healing, we are not to deny the sickness if it's there.
---Rickey on 3/10/06

john, Actually, no. We are to believe what God says is fact. What we say, until we see Him face to face, will always be tainted with sin - whether it be unbelief, selfish ambition, or just plain error. Believing what WE say will come to pass, as some kind of formula to make things happen, is bordering on witchcraft.
---daphn8897 on 3/10/06

I have no idea where this question came from. I did not send it in. Must have me confused with someone else.
---Fred_S. on 3/10/06

We are to believe in what we ask for as if it already happened. That is faith turning into fact.
---john on 3/10/06

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"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen..." Substance and evidence, from a biblical perspective it seems that faith is not based merely on a feeling or a wish - there is substance and evidence.
---daphn8897 on 3/10/06

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