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Degrees Of Punishment In Hell

Please explain Luke 12:46-48, the parable of the two neglectful servants. One is punished with many stripes, the other with few. Could there be "degrees" of punishment in hell?

Moderator - I would believe the main punishment is eternal separation from God.

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In the original Greek it reads, the servant who knew the Lord's will and did not do it,"...will be beaten much." But he that did not know the Lord's will, and did things worthy of strikes,"...will be beaten less." Both servants were bad: one servant was unrepented, and the other was bad by nature, therefore both are sinners. Hypocrisy is worse than being carnal by nature, therefore because the one was a backslider who never got right, he received more beating.
---Eloy on 1/29/08

Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
---Linda on 6/17/07

Cliff has no faith in scriptures. Thats why he reject the NT.Cliff have said he reject the NT.And how pauls writings cant be trusted and how his words come from the devil.But on some blogs he quote them both to prove his point.Double talker? Cliff said he's a arian. He is so cultic. He follow and accept the teachings of campbell but reject paul writings. Wonder why? He reject the clear teaching of the bible. He want to confuse and trap people. Campbell is a false teacher,but he follow him.
---Ramon on 4/20/06

On another thread, Cliff clearly stated. "I am an Arian."

Moderator - I was just trying to understand where Cliff is coming from, however at this point with both your comments and Elder's it is very clear now.
---John_T on 4/20/06

Moderator, Campbell was a teacher/author involved with various eastern religions, Cults and New Age movement.
He wrote/taught some of the same attitudes and thoughts that Cliff posts. He was involved with some "heavy duty"
cults and teachings. There are others, but a few months ago Cliff admitted that he agreed with the Campbell false teachings. Campbell rejected the writings of Paul and so does Cliff along with other fundamental Bible issues.

Moderator - Thanks for the info and in addition I looked Campbell up last night. Yes, you are very correct Campbell wasn't a Christian, but into New Age and mythology and thought the Bible was a a bunch of mythology.
---Elder on 4/20/06

Moderator, what do you think Cliff is apart from the New Age movement and Joseph Campbell? He has posted more lies, confusion and mistruths than anyone I have read here.
When the truth is proclaimed by someone like John T, Cliff changes direction and comes another way. He openly condemned the NT and stated it cannot be trusted. Many younger Christians get confused by his statements and CN has given him the platform to carry on. He has yet to post one encouraging comment.

Moderator - I am not familiar with Campbell or his teachings. Who is he?
---Elder on 4/19/06

The Arian heresy was condemned by the Council of Nycea in 325 AD. Arius, its name sake, insisted that Jesus was only a spirit being, not having a human body.

It is the same as the Jehovah Witnesses believe today.

Moderator - Are Cliff's comments leading you to believe he is a Jehovah Witness?
---John_T on 4/19/06

Cliff: You describe youreself as being an Arian; that's a HERESY.Thus ANSWERING ANY MORE OF YOUR QUESTIONS IS FOOLISHNESS. You seek not understanding; you spew forth confusion as others noted, and work with our Enemy. Your issue is with the Scripture writers, not us.
You deny CLEAR TEACHINGS OF SCRIPTURE I drop this matter, quoting and following Proverbs 26:4, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."

Moderator - What is Arian doctrine?
---John_T on 4/19/06

John T; I will continue this theread on the blog "is the trinity a person" to morrow am when I have more time!
---1st_cliff on 4/17/06

Rev 3:14 means Christ is the beginning of creation of God as the source and origin of all creation. Gen 1:1-2, John 1:1-14, Col 1:15-18, II Cor 5:17 and others support this.
But why tell Cliff he still doesn't accept the New Testament. I say to the real heretics, Go fly a plane.
Heretics are heretics because they want to be.
---Elder on 4/13/06

"I happen to agree with Arius". Now we know the truth about you from your words.

Now, tell us from which piece of fiction did this come? Bishops attended,some semi-illiterate... None of the bishops were Jews

Please cite a reliable source such as Britannica, Schaff etc., not anonmyous JW texts offering no footnotes
---John_T on 4/13/06

John T;Will the real heretics please stand up!Constantine was a clever ruler, not a bible scholar.This was the beginning of the apostacy. I happen to agree with Arius,The fusion had begun,(Roman and Christian) 318 Bishops attended,some semi-illiterate,some voting bishops were murdered. None of the bishops were Jews! The Nicene Creed was adopted to cement the group as in one accord. Cleverness and might does not constitute truth!Being of the majority opinion is not my strong suit!
---1st_cliff on 4/13/06

No, it does not. Are you a JW? That is their "theology" and it was a heresy, the Arian Heresy, condemned at Nycea 325 AD.

By citing and adhering to theology condemned at the First Ecumenical Council, you are admitting that you are a heretic.

I do not call you that, you call yourself that through your pushing heresy.

BTW Have a happy Easter! I serve a risen Savior who is co equal to God because He is God incarnate
---John_T on 4/13/06

John T; It seems to agree with Rev.3.14. does it not?
---1st_cliff on 4/12/06

Essentially, you are saying that Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of the Living God, who came in the flesh, died at Calvary, and resurrected three days later is a made, or created being. Is that correct?
---John_T on 4/12/06

John T; "is not quickened except it DIE" (define "die" ).Paul is using vegitation here as an example,then contrasts animals,then spiritual beings with humans,then resurrection!"Sown a natural body,raised a spiritual body" Does it indicate "immediately" ? Could be days later? years later? What is "assumed"? The 1st Adam was "made" a living soul. the last Adam(christ) was "made" a quickening spirit. Do you understand "made"?
---1st_cliff on 4/12/06

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Cliff says he does not base his belief on just one verse of Scripture yet he uses just one verse from Num, Deut and Judges.
Almost any point can be made using this technique but notice that John gives the whole thought in his reply from I Cor 15:36-45.
---Elder on 4/12/06

Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:... 38 But God gives it a body as it has pleased him, and to every seed his own body 1 Co 15:36-38
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
KJV. (1 Co 15:44-45)

You err
---John_T on 4/11/06

John T; I never base belief on a single scripture.Heb. text-Num23.10 "die the death(my soul)31.19 "person" (soul)Deut.19.11"smite him mortally"(soul fatally)Judges 16.30"let me die"(let my sul die)There are literally dozens of examples.It's exhaustive but with a concordance you can verify the truth! I have better things to do than "kick up dust". A little like trying to fight the establishment,the likelyhood of anyone listening is pretty slim!
---1st_cliff on 4/9/06

Cliff: Believe what you will. You can even believe that the moon is made of green cheese. But we know from fact that is not.

Likewise your citing Isaiah and the concept of "soul-person" We know from Scripture it is not so, and there is only one verse, a metaphor, where it is mentioned. One verse is a POOR foundation to build a doctrine.

Are you being serious, or are you trying to kick up dust, as others here indicate? You never answered that one.
---John_T on 4/8/06

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John T : That does not conflict with what I said. The soul -person,that sins will die in either case dieing does not mean "living on" does it? As far as Luke 12,the drama here is not about dead people,but rather "responsability" at Christ's return!
---1st_cliff on 4/8/06

I have heard the the Jehovah's Witness believe Heaven is on earth and Hell is in the grave.
What religion believes a born again person's soul dies?
---Ulrika on 4/8/06

Some rules for interpertation: You do not make a doctine of one verse. You have to look at the context and grammar.

Here, the word "soul" is a metaphor for "person", thus, the person who sins shall die. If it were as you allege, it would read, "each soul..." It doesn't.

The thread is about Luke 12:46-48. How did we get to Isaiah?
---John_T on 4/8/06

cliff.#2.The reason why you are so confuse is because you reject the NT.People like you end up capping on the OT to prove there point. You cant understand the NT. You never use the NT to prove your point.You a OT-Only guy. No wonder you cant understand "Spiritual death". How can the NT be clearer? Ez 18:4 proves nothing because you cant understand what the Nt saids about Spiritual death.When will you learn? How can you understand it if you cant understand the simple stuff in the NT?
---Ramon on 4/7/06

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cliff.Still with that verse? You should really marry that verse.Many people have told you and given you examples from scriptures.The NT.But i guess since you reject the NT, you will never understand.That verse talking about SPIRITUAL DEATH!. How many times people have to tell you. You need to take verse into context! And compare them with the NT. Think you can handle that?. What is your point? Do you even have one? You need to compare what the NT saids.Something you cant do!You reject the Nt.
---Ramon on 4/7/06

Cliff: The word "nefesh" is used over 700 times in the OT. SO WHAT? That proves nothing.

You grasp at straws to make an obscure point, but I STILL know not what you are saying.

If you are quoting Scripture, all of us here ask that you quote it correctly, and entirely.

Quoting in context also helps. That way we know that you are not using Scripture for a pretext.
---John_T on 4/7/06

John T :You wont find it under "soul" but under "dead" #5515 ,still nephesh,same word translated soul most places. Anyway what could be plainer thah ez.18.4 "the soul that sinneth it will die"?
---1st_cliff on 4/7/06

John T; The scriptures I cited are all Nephesh (Heb. soul) in the Hebrew text! see Strong's Concordane.
---1st_cliff on 4/7/06

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De 2:30But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God (hardened his spirit,) and made his heart obstinate,Lev 5:4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, 2 examples of soul and spirit- the soul has to do with the mind of man the spirit is the spirit of life that God breathed into Man. exzucuh
---Exzucuh on 4/6/06

Cliff: Lev19:28 "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD"
King James Version.

You grasp at straws to make an obscure point, but I know not what you are saying.

If you are quoting Scripture, all of us here ask that you quote it correctly, and entirely.

Quoting in context also helps. That way we know that you are not using Scripture for a pretext.
---John_T on 4/6/06

cliff.Where are you coming from? is this another one of your tricks?Did you pull that one out of the hat? You Just cant understand the simple stuff.
---Ramon on 4/6/06

John T; Soul=nephesh(heb) Lev.19.28-dead soul,21.1,21.11,22.4-all dead souls,num.5.2,6.6,6.11,etc., infinitum! Eccl. 3.19"man's fate is the same as that of the one dies,so does the other.all have the same breath (ruach-spirit)all come from dust and all return to dust>
---1st_cliff on 4/6/06

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Cliff: Just searched KJV. No "dead soul" found there. Did you make that one up?

As to Krishna, & CS, they are patently false. Neither can stand up to the rigors for truth, as can the Bible.

You bring into the discussion things that have as much common ground as Genesis and the Gilgamesh Epic, making faulty, specious analagies for an unclear purpose.

Are you being serious, or are you trying to kick up dust, as others here indicate?
---John_T on 4/6/06

John T; Y'know when you drift off the reality it's much like talking to Christian Scientist where nothing exists,not even us,we're just the figment of somreone's immagination! The last time I spoke with a Hari Chrishna he lost me somewhere between saturn and the black hole of space!God speaks to us figuratively and symbolically but not in abstracts knowing we are "but dust"
---1st_cliff on 4/6/06

John T; Then what is a "dead soul"?There are many scriptural references to dead souls.
---1st_cliff on 4/6/06

Cliff: Other than trying to make a specious, faulty, ambiguious analgy to a spiritual issue, there is no connection. I do not get the drift.

The spiritual realm is entirely different in matter, essence and purpose than the material world.
---John_T on 4/5/06

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John T; In physics it's not unusual that 2 things (joined)produce a 3rd. IE electric current + filament produces light! Dust of the ground + breath of life produced a soul. If the current is disconnected,where does the light go? Do you catch my drift?
---1st_cliff on 4/4/06

Cliff.#4.You say "But then again I've come to rely on my calculator for accuracy". Then your calculator must be broken then. I still dont get how "1+1=30000". You take the Bible and demand others to show you physical proof.You have no faith in scriptures, heck you by own account reject the entire NT(yet you dare to quote it as if you believe it).You dont ask questions to get the truth, you are just trying to trap people and confuse them.
---Ramon on 4/4/06

JohnT is right.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Rom. 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Read Rom. 7:14-25
---chris on 4/4/06

Genesis 2:7 " (the physical body) became a living soul.
The OT looks at man as having two parts, body and soul; and the NT looks at man as having three parts, body, soul and spirit.

I can't explain it, just telling it as is.
You flatter me with the degree.

BTW are you being serious, or are you trying to kick up dust, as others here indicate?
---John_T on 4/4/06

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John T.Amen!
---Ramon on 4/4/06

I did answer your Q, perhaps you do not accept it. Let's try again.

Jesus is my Savior, Sanctifier, Healer and Coming King. Because He saved me, I will go to heaven.

Character is not the same as fruits, nor works. I am a sinner, and I do so daily, though I try not to. My character is holy because Christ sanctified it, and before Him, I am holy.

It is not what I do that keeps me in or out of heaven; it is ONLY what Jesus has done that does that.
---John_T on 4/4/06

#3.Cliff will have you have believe that you can drive cars without gas or weels.And he will argue with you. Cliff proves what Jesus said.He said that many false teachers will come, and fool many.Jesus knew cliff before he was born.He has no understanding of scriptures. He reject paul and believe all his words are from the devil.He will tell you why you cant believe him and the NT.Cliff games got to stop.He want you believe his lies.He reject the NT, and wonder why people expose him.
---Ramon on 4/4/06

cliff#2.Cliff,you cant understand.And you never will.You reject the entire the NT.The only thing you want to is mock the NT.And make other do the same.You want to confuse people.Why do you even come to a christian site for?You reject the NT,yet you like talk about it,and make others question it.You said that elder can read your mind, but even if he can,he will just find air and no light.
---Ramon on 4/4/06

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Cliff Has Come Here with no faith in the word,thats why he reject the NT.He want you to believe that if they no real proof,then you cant believe the bible.
---Ramon on 4/4/06

John T: You sidestepped the question. I merely asked you the same question that you asked 1st Cliff. I then asked a second question concerning the display of your character (your fruits).

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;" (Mat 7:20, 21)
---jerry6593 on 4/4/06

Cliff you said, "I've come to rely on my calculator for accuracy."
That is your problem. You have taken a Spiritual Book and demanded to see physical proof of everything you read.
Does an Iron Ax head float? Does water roll back in the sea? Can we speak to a rock and have water come out? Can a donkey speak? Does food fall from the sky? Can fire, not lightning, fall from the sky? Do Chariots fly?
Can you prove any of this with your logical mind?
Cond #2
---Elder on 4/4/06

Cond #2
8+8=16 in your calculator because it was so before your calculator was programed.
By the way tell me how a calculator works and why do you believe it if you don't know?
Sign of the times you say. The NT says the time shall come when they shall not endure sound doctrine. You reject the entire NT which proves the point.
---Elder on 4/4/06

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John T; Can you show "us" where in gen. we were made a 2 part entity? Adam "became" a living soul.not given,not had but became. Maybe your Phd can put a different spin on this!
---1st_cliff on 4/4/06

Cliff ... occasionally you make some sort of sense, but generally, I still do not know what you believe. You say a lot about where others are wrong, but what do you put in place of these things?
Who was Jesus? Is He still? What did Jesus do for you?
---alan8869_of_UK on 4/4/06

You will not find the word hades in either the NT or the OT in KJV, nor Gehenna, nor Sheol. It is the word hell. Hell is "the unseen world" translated in KJV but in the Revised Verison it is Hades. Same goes for Gehenna and Sheol.
---Rebecca_D on 4/3/06

I believe this "punishment" is just that. Not eternal damnation. We punish our children for wrong doing, meeting out the punishment in kind for the "crime". This is to reprove, not condemn. God punishes us when we need it to make us stronger, not to cripple us.
---mikefl on 4/3/06

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Some of you are really good at slinging insults around, proving the saying that Christianity is the only army that shoots its wounded. But do any of you know the difference between soul and spirit?
---Jeffrey on 4/3/06

When will cliff understand and finally accept the truth.'1+1+1+1=1', i have a harder trouble understanding '0+0=125', my calculator cant get that answer. Nither '1+1=30000'.I guess it got to be those high-tech calculators. Cliff need to wake up before its to late. Cliff is the only one that have doubts with the word of God. So he continue to post his cult teachings To confuse others.He want you to believe that you dont need a printer to print papers.Dont listen to him.Listen to the bible.
---Ramon on 4/3/06

#8.Notice cliff cultic teachings. He focus on rejecting scriptures,then accepting it. The cults,christians trashers,atheism, etc carry the same view as him. We all got to ask, why does cliff reject the NT but still quote from it? Why does he hate paul, but quote his writings? Cliff is a Pro-double talker.His statements has no value. Its not found in the bible. Cliff wants everyone to believe his false doctrines. Maybe his friends dont believe him. The new-age movement got so many minds.
---Ramon on 4/3/06

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:... 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body
KJV. (1 Co 15:35-38).
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
KJV. (1 Co 15:44-45).
---John_T on 4/3/06

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Cliff: According to Genesis, we are spirits inhabiting a physical body. The physical is temporal; it wears out, dies and decays. Not so the soul.

We were originally created to have fellowship with God forever, as it was in Eden, but sin changed that, death came to all because of Adam.
---John_T on 4/3/06

Cliff: You argue with WE Vine and FF Bruce, not me. These are Major League scholars. My education gives me an advantage, but your sophomoric statements do not get out of the Tee Ball League.

Your statement rants on empty because it ignores the clear context, and hopes to confuse by focusing on the irrelevant.

For God, time is irrelevant. He created it for us.He is an eternal being, we are not. Thus time is a "pimple" in eternity.
---John_T on 4/3/06

#7.Carefully listen to Cliff's false teaching.Lets not believe what he saids,since he reject the NT. Cliff wants to fool everybody.But they are people that are wiser that cliff and wont fall into his traps. Why cliff reject the NT? maybe all the teachings that contradict his are there, Jesus is there. But he still quote it,double talker. He want you believe that you can fly, and shoot fire balls out of your eyes. Cliff believe half of 2 is -18. Cliff say 1+1=300000. Cliff likes to cause doubt.
---Ramon on 4/3/06

Elder; That's a pretty slick little blackboard trick,I never would have thought of it,1/2 of 8=3 works kinda neat! but I have more trouble with 1+1+1=1,still baffles me!But then again I've come to rely on my calculator for accuracy. Sign of the times I guess.
---1st_cliff on 4/3/06

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#6."But maybe like Elder,you don't believe He died!" Where is cliff getting these lies from? Where did Elder ever said he dont believe jesus Died on the cross? His body really did die.But did his inner part cease to exist also?(1Pt.3:19-20)Cliff cant understand this.But if we all listen to cliff, we will reject the NT, and end up rejecting Jesus words.Cliff don't have faith in Scripture.He question every part of it.Cliff wants everyone to do the same.God have mercy.
---Ramon on 4/3/06

John T take notice it is like so many other untruths Cliffs tells he has now told you "what Elder Believes." As in many other things don't believe him for he knows not what I believe and he cannot because he rejects God's Word. The New Testament to him is a documentary and that is all.
Ask him he will tell you.
Don't trust him to tell you what I believe or what you should believe either.
Everything he says comes from a New Age Cultic background.
---Elder on 4/3/06

#5. Why cliff keep posting things untrue? Cliff said that you cease to exist afterdeath. Everything cease to exist afterdeath(soul/spirit), then how can christ preached to those in prison? Is cliff confuse more than ever now? Does he accept the entire NT (from matthew to revelation)? Could cliff be saying that Jesus Cease to exist afterdeath, and he still dead now?Cliff dont know what "death" is biblically.But if you be like cliff, you reject the NT, and profess falsehood doctrines.
---Ramon on 4/3/06

#4.Here's how cliff works.He will say that going inside a car, starting the engine, and closing your eyes, you wont crash. But if you open your eyes and start seeing where you going,he will say you crash. All of cliff' s"ideas" is not found in the word of God. He want you believe that beliving the bible will cause you corruption. Do you think he want to spread the truth? No. Why does he want to cause confusion?Could it be possible that even his friends doesn't believe him?What cliff do is wrong.
---Ramon on 4/3/06

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John T; Jesus talks about the resurrection of "the dead" not dead bodies. Can you go to the cemetery and let the dead out? No because Christ has the keys to unlock (symbolically) the graves and call them out! When they are empty (graves) no longer needed,they are tossed ,figuratively into the lake of fire for final destruction! Christ preached to those in prison ,pre flood, not 3,500yrs later! He was dead for 3 days!But maybe like Elder,you don't believe He died!
---1st_cliff on 4/3/06

#3.Cliff has always spread untruths.He want you to reject scripture.He want you to think that mixing black and brown in a cup will make white.He want you to doubt scriptures.he rejects the NT and he want you to do the same.He want you to believe space really has 'air' and you can breath in space.Cliff, you still posting untruths? Cliff want everyone to belive that when christ died, he was gone. Nothing survie.Cliff wants to cause doubts.Why is he here in a christian site?He want to blind others.
---Ramon on 4/3/06

#2.How can cliff understand the bible,if he reject almost every part of it? 1 PET 3:20, how can cliff understand this, if he dont think the NT is part of scriptures?His false doctrines is not taught in scriptures.But cliff cant see that and he continue to post his untruths to confuse people.Why does cliff want everyone to believe hell is not a bad place? Satan do the same thing.He likes that.
---Ramon on 4/3/06

karen.RIGHT.cliff doubts almost every part of scripture.By his own account he reject the NT,but he still quote from them.Double taker.Cliff has no ideal what the truth is,he want to make everyone doubt scripture.He is a anti -paul.He believe paul is a child of satan.He dont belive the bible is GOD words.He reject jesus own words about life afterdeath.He is a anti-NT.Why is he in a christian site?
---Ramon on 4/3/06

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Cliff said, "My role as an educator"..
Here is how Cliff educates.
He tells you that half of 8 is 3. He then argues about it. Then he illustrates that if you write 8 on the blackboard and reject the left side of the number and erase it, it leaves you with three. The proof that 4 and 4 equal 8 has nothing to do with his "proof" because you are the one that won't accept the reality of the blackboard example.
His ministry is for you to reject the New Testament.
---Elder on 4/3/06

The reason you don't know 1 Cliff is because you don't have faith in Scripture. You judge by your own understanding. That is where your mistake is at. How can you believe in something written if you don't have faith in God's Word as been Truth? So everything you read is from your own understanding. Scripture speaks of this issue also. When a new born starts his walk, he also doesn't know much about God, but he has faith. Where you don't have it yet. That is why you question everything. Just my opinion
---karen on 4/3/06

Sorry, but Scripture and the best reference books do not support your thesis. From which sets of teachings are you getting your ideas about hades/sheol?

Please name your sources.
---John_T on 4/3/06

The word hades is used four times in the Gospels,always by Jesus, Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; it is used with reference to the soul of Christ, Acts 2:27, 31;
Christ declares that He has the keys of it, Rev. 1:18; in Rev. 6:8 it is personified, with the signification of the temporary destiny of the doomed; it is to give up those who are therein, 20:13, and is to be cast into the lake of fire, ver. 14
Vine's Expository dictionary of Old and New Testament
---John_T on 4/3/06

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Cliff: According to Scripture Jesus decended into hell to preach destruction to the souls there. The word is phylactA Of the 45 times mentioned in the KJV NT only 8 have words other than "prison" translated. These were the souls of men before the flood 1PE3:20
---John_T on 4/3/06

I place no trust in my actions as being worthy to merit heaven.

I place all my trust in the finished works of Jesus being sufficient to pay for all my sins, past, present and future.
---John_T on 4/3/06

John T: If YOU were to die tonight, are YOU sure that YOU would go to heaven? Do your actions confirm or deny your answer?
---jerry6593 on 4/3/06

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