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Book Of Revelation Difficult

While reading another blog, I was wondering why God makes us decypher things such as the Book of Revelation? Why not just come out with it?

Moderator - Because some things will become more clear as we get closer to the time. Also the church is in an apostate state which will make it impossible for most to understand as they truly don't have the Holy Spirit as a guide.

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 ---sue on 4/19/06
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Michelle: the Christians at the begining of the age were called 'PEOPLE OF THE WAY'..followers were later called Christians when Christ came. Read Ex31:17 Sabbath is a sign between God and the children of Israel/followers of Christ.Read to the end..He wrote it with His own fingers.
---pop on 4/8/08

Scripture says, before Jesus ascended to the Father, He said "I will send you the Comforter and He will teach you all things" and Amen, Revelation is very easy to is an open Rev with the book of Daniel and ask the Comforter to lead guide and teach you in His Word and believe that hE WILL DO IT..and He will reveal to you all things written in Rev and Daniel. Yes, we do have the Holy Spirit/Comforter with us right is up to us to believe
---pop on 4/6/08

"Moderator - No, the New Testament scripture doesn't require tithing as it is impossible to following the complete tithing rules of the Law even if one was a Jew. Christians are required to be cheerful givers and to give as God has blessed them. Seal of God isn't the day Saturday.. there were no Christians prior to 1850. Christians are suppose to have a daily walk not a Saturday only walk with God. Is it possible the Pope might require a Sunday worship for all of mankind? Of course. "
---Michelle on 3/26/08

"If he did, I would not be attending that type of church as the scripture is clear the One World Religion is lead by the False Prophet or the friend of the apostate church. The church today is almost completely apostate and the false doctrines and false teachings are everywhere. Why don't the SDAs focus on these false doctrines that are sending people to Hell?"

Thank you, Moderator.

---Michelle on 3/26/08

Lupe, some info for you on the Sabbath. The meaning, A perpetual memorial of CreationEx20:11,12, A sign of sanctificationEx13:13, Eze20:20, A time of fellowship and experience God's presence among us, without the Sabbath all would be labor and sweat without end, A sign of righteousness by faith, A symbol of resting in Christ and a symbol of the believers entering into the gospel rest.
---jana on 9/17/06

Lupe: I am afraid you still don't get it!
Yes, every day we can and should worshio the Lord BUT when the SABBATH comes around which I did not pick but God set aside by making it a holy rest day, our worship experience is enriched because we have more hrs to focus on it and we are less hurried. (talking about public worship).
Q. Are you suggesting there is not a difference between your TU and SUNDAY worship experience? P.
---Pierr5358 on 5/19/06

Thank you Pierr, I knew you would not have an answer because we do worship God everyday the same. I believe "just saying" that you pick Saturday, will make you different then the rest of us. While I am saying, "Everyday is a wonderful day worshipping the Lord" The only difference is you pick a day, and I pick all days. Peace and love from your friend and brother.
---Lupe2618 on 5/18/06

Lupe: about WORSHIP. First I would suggest that there is private and pubic worship and my focus is on the second. I made a list of activities I engage in MORE on Sabbath than on the other days (not excluding my private devotions) because Sabbath is a HOLY rest day which offers me multiple opportunities for an enriched worship experience. You seem to think that everyday day offers those same opportunities to the same degree. I don't agree, but no hard feelings. P.
---Pierr5358 on 5/18/06

No apology is necessary for no offense was given. I do like your spirit about things, though.

Perhaps you may wish to rewrite your comments again, telling on which hat post you place your hat. Sometimes, when I am tiored, I fumble finger on the keyboard, or do not write clearly too.
---John_T on 5/17/06

John T. That was simply a term I used. I called it probationary, because man is mortal for this dispensation only. Maybe a different word should have been used. I meant no offense.
---josef on 5/17/06


Where in Revelation, or the Bible, for that matter, is this statement of yours found? "probationary period of mortal man"

From where are you coming theologically? My guess is either JW or SDA. Please clarify; i wish not to jump to conclusions.
---John_T on 5/16/06

3. in the way people worshipped God in the Old then the New. In the old people had a leader to speak for them. They followed the person God choose as their leaders. In the New Testement we have a personal relationship with Christ. Something those people didn't have. He now recites inside of us as a church. Everyday the Holy Spirit speaks to us and teaches us so it becomes one unity between the Spirit and us. So to me its an everyday thing between Christ and myself. Just a though.
---Lupe2618 on 5/16/06

2. everyday with the same authority would be better? I cannot hold myself back and say I will worship Him a little better on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday. How could I? I know this debate has been interesting to me between all of you and I sure don't want to beat this thing down, it was just so amazing for me to grasp. I was never aware before about the teachings of SDA but have now learned a lot. But my only question to you was what I stated. That was all. I believe there is a big difference in
---Lupe2618 on 5/16/06

Pierr, let me state that I find no wrong in you worshipping on Saturday. That you cannot explain what the difference is in worship, I don't understand, other then you do more on Saturday then any other day is really nothing different then doing it everyday. How is it possible to not put everything into your worship and hold back a little for Saturday's? How can you hold back? Your love for Christ is the same everyday, your prayers are the same. Wouldn't you think that praying
---Lupe2618 on 5/16/06

Yes, there is a White Throne Judgment, but I do not see it happening as SDAs do. (Rev:20:11-12)

I see it as the Accuser of the Brethern (Rev12:10)laying charges against God's Elect.

But none shall be able to lay any charge against God's elect (Rom8:33ff), and here is the important part, FOR IT IS GOD WHO JUSTIFIES. That means that there are any "supermeritorious" works to get me a better place in heaven, etc. than is prepared for me before the foundation of the Earth.
---John_T on 5/16/06

This is the true testimony to the fact that The fathers ways are true and just, thus best suited for his creation. This is our inditement against Satan, our standing in agreement with the Father decision to destroy him and his works. Honor and respect The Father and hold Him in the highest esteem, love Him and Love each other as He for Christ sake has loved us. This is the teaching of the book of revelations.
---josef on 5/16/06

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As witnesses of the true kingdom (the reign of the Fathers Spirit within us). To demonstrate the Fathers method of operation, or His way. He has set His principles for life, our testimony is a life laid down and made new to test, prove and approve those principles and to demonstrate His good, acceptable and perfect will. Our witness is a soul humbled to except and to live out those principles.
---josef on 5/16/06

The most important concept of the book of revelations is the fact that the Lord is revealing Himself, His plan for man and the fulfillment of this probationary period of mortal man. To open our minds to who we truly are. We are spiritual beings experiencing a human existence. We are not to allow this experience to dictate our thinking. We who are called are experiencing these mortal existence as tangible representatives of His way.
---josef on 5/16/06

Moderator: First of all let me invite you to join me in elevating the "tone" of our dialogue. You ask me if I knew how the tithe was used. Yes I do since I took the test and I wrote a blog on it. (support of the ministry & the poor).
What do you mean when you say that I am a giver??? I am (in contrast to what?) I give both my offering and tithe freely and cheerfully! Not sure about your point. As for TSK I did mention attending Sabbath School were we read/study the Word in depth. P.

Moderator - Ministry and the poor is only part correct - please read more. As Lupe stated, you are not doing anything different on Saturday then someone else on a different day. The issue is the worship of the day Saturday?
---Pierr5358 on 5/1/06

The last posts signed "John" should be "JohnT"

Sorry about that
---John_T on 5/1/06

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#3At the Last Supper did he command a new day to worship? I know He didn't leave it up to us to decide.When we speak about days, lets do it in Gods' way.
Gods' days don't start at midnight like human days. They begin at sunset and end at sunset. This is important because God said it. If it was not important God would have not mentioned this in Genesis.
Maybe you can guide me to the Scriptures that say Gods' days now begin at midnight.

With Gods' days in mind pray, and look at Acts 20:7.
---gerardo on 5/1/06

Please read Matthew 13:10-17,34,35; 18:3-5; Romans 2:29; Hebrews 3:7-19.
---Eloy on 5/1/06

Sunday Christians say SDA's keep the Sabbath as a way to gain favor by "working" according to the Law.

If there is no Scripture that commands Sunday worship then aren't Sunday worshippers "working" under some one elses law? And if so, who commanded this.

Even in Death Jesus Rested.

At his crucification, His closest followers worshipped on that same Sabbath.

These are the people that He spoke to each and every day.
---gerardo on 5/1/06

Lets look at both sides of the coin.

SDA Christians believe the day to worship God is Saturday.

Other Christians believe Sunday is the day to worship God.

SDA Christians believe this because they believe it is what God asks in the Bible, obedience.

Sunday Christians believe that Sunday is the day to honor Jesus for His Resurrection.
---gerardo on 5/1/06

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JT Let me first agree that the labeling of the J phases is not directly found in the Bible BUT I still insist that these lables in no way take away anything from Jesus' majesty!
Do I understand you correctly??
'requiring another step after death'
Do you deny Jesus' role as mediator in heaven? Do you deny the IJ phase as described
in Dan? Do you not believe that the saints will 'audit' (my word not EGW!) the J for a 1000 yrs BEFORE the wicked are destroyed? Thanks. P.
---Pierr5358 on 5/1/06

Lupe: Can't seem to grasp what you are looking for.
As I see it, there are a number of activities that are part of my daily worship to the Lord, such as studying His word, offering prayers of different types, seeking ways to represent Him faithfully.
Then there is the Sabbath worship which is special because it allows for more of the above but in a greater variety and in a less hurried way and in a fellowship atmosphere and it happens on the the special day set aside by the Creator to honor Him. P.
---Pierr5358 on 5/1/06

Orthodox Jews also keep the sabbath, but the way they observe the 4th commandment is far different than the way that Adventists do as described below. Observing the sabbath as God instructed in the O.T. involves doing very little if anything at all. No cooking, no household work, traveling very short distance, etc. It sounds as if Adventist sabbath keeping is what the SDA church has deemed it should be and not how it was instituted biblically.
---ralph7477 on 5/1/06

2. I think this stand you put and give so much information on and answers don't explain how that worship is different. Only on words that Saturday is your day with God. While I say all days are with God. As the moderator said, its a relationship with the Lord. An everyday event, trusting worshipping and bringing our cares to him. That's why I ask, is the special worship where you sing songs to Him and you don't do it other times. peace
---Lupe2618 on 5/1/06

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Pierr, you never really explained how your special worship was different. I know you have a lot to write about Saturday's going to be with your kids and maybe camping, but how is your worship different then any other day? I am not wanting to argue on denomination just on special worship. How can you do a deeper worship different? Do you close the doors to your churches on all other days? How do you stop someone in your congregation from worshipping God deeper during the week? You see what I mean?
---Lupe2618 on 5/1/06

The reason the book of Revelation seems so difficult is because man, with his natural carnal understanding, has made it so...and we have believed them. The book is called "The Revelation (unveiling, uncovering, apocolypsis) of Jesus Christ. If you read that book and don't get the person and work of Christ out of it, you began reading it with a preconceived doctrine or tradition of man that makes it of no effect.
---Linda6563 on 5/1/06

"It is finished!" is significant because it comes after "Eloi,..." MY God, why are you forsaking me? (Psalm22) Jesus was theological on the cross with both things.

Because Jesus is the sinless Lamb sacrificed to pay the sins of mankind, he knew that his suffering was vicarious, and that he took upon himself the sins of the world.
Requiring another step after death means that Christ only took on SOME of our sins because there is no condemnation... for the Christian.
---John on 5/1/06

Let us agree that a three-stage IJ or an IJ in any format is not mentioned directly in the Bible. Nor, like the Trinity is it "hidden" on the OT.

Three passages come up: "Today, you will be with me in paradise", "absent from the body but present with the Lord" and 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul describes death, and our new bodies.

All point to direct, immediate changes and have no secondary, probationary judgment.
---John on 5/1/06

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Moderator: I say this as kindly as possible. You response leaves me with the impression that you did not give much thought to your answer. What did you mean in line 2 on tithing 'they are also different...' and what do you really know about my tithing and offering practice that you write 'I know for a fact ...according to scripture' Really!?
Finally on the TSK you write 'A Chritian ...daily and more! Could you, and work full-time? I think not! Try to be more thoughtful with your comments. Thanks, P.

Moderator - Yes, I meant what I said. Do you know how the tithe was used in the Bible? Do you know how offerings were used and the occasions for both of them? Study these issues and you will realise you are a giver. It's an issue of understanding what the words mean. As to the Saturday issue, you didn't include reading the Word of God, prayer, or fasting. These are daily walk issues for Christians. Christianity is about a daily walk and relationship with God and with others. As Lupe stated, you are not doing anything different on Saturday then someone else on a different day. The issue is the worship of the day Saturday.
---Piere5358 on 4/30/06

JT: I really wish you would help me understand why my seeing the judgment as a process of several stages (investigation-execution-review) makes you say that it means that Jesus did not do enough on Calvary, that Salvation must be helped by human efforts. I see nothing that says that. Please explain.
As to who goes to heaven...let me worry about my own readiness! P.
---Piere5358 on 4/30/06

Exzucuh: If we can agree that seal/sign are synonyms may I suggest that you read EX 31:17 &
EZEKIEL 20:12 & REV 7:1-3 again. P.
---Piere5358 on 4/30/06

The seal is not the sabbath but the name of God Revelation 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
---Exzucuh on 4/30/06

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Which of my sources about the IJ is not telling the truth, Encyclopedia Britannica, Wikipedia, or pro SDA sites, official or unofficial?

As has been said SO MANY TIMES, there is absolutely no direct NT evidence of IJ, and it is wrong because it means that Jesus did not do enough on Calvary. Salvation has to be helped by mankind's efforts.

Or are you telling me that I will not get into heaven because I may not tithe, eat pork chops and worship on Sunday?
---John_T on 4/30/06

Rather than reinvent the wheel, I refer you back to these blogs: /1129909971.htm and /1138014417.htm. Copy and past the stuff from the / to the htm, and paste it on the address bar, wiping out the # for this blog: /1145447551.htm. You will find about 700 blogs in which neither Jerry nor Pierre can give clear, Scriptural answers to the heresy of IJ.

When Jesus said, "It is finished" it did not mean "closed door", it meant that he did what is needed for salvation.
---John_T on 4/30/06

Moderator:Just took the test It confirmed in my mind that OFFERINGS & TITHE are NOT the same. OFFERINGS, I decide how much I want to give BUT TITHE the Lord tells me how much to give, 10%. Both are important but NOT THE SAME !!
Most churches that tithe use it to pay preachers, Bible workers and Bible teachers in christian schools BUT to pay the other budgetary items, they use offering monies NOT TITHE. Finally Math 23:23 confirms that he Jesus deoes not want us to stop tithing! P.

Moderator - Of course Tithing and Offerings of the Old Testament are different. They are also different from "Cheerful Giving" required in the New Testament. I know for a fact you are not Tithing and Offering according to the scriptures, but instead are giving. If you think otherwise, please take the Financial Bible quiz again and read the scripture answers in more detail.
---Pierr5358 on 4/30/06

L. True Sabbath Keeping
TSK > attending Sabbath Schoolm studying the Word in depth to fortify our minds with His truth.
TSK > attending Sabbath worship service to hear especially good preaching/teaching helpful to us in helping spread the good news of Jesus.
TSK > Enjoy extra free time to spend times outdoors leaning from God's second book!
TSK > Take extraq time to help the needy, feed the hungry and visit the shut-ins (prisons and nursing homes) Thank God for these TSK activities! P.

Moderator - A Christian better be doing these things daily and more. Sounds like you worship the day Saturday instead of just worshiping the creator?
---Pierr5358 on 4/30/06

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Lupe: back to your question of what is special aboutTrue Sabbath Keeping:
TSK >cessation from all our regular labor and occupation to enjoy both physical as well as spiritul rest,to enter into fellowship wit God spending quality time with Him.
TSK > not engaging in common business trahnsactions.
TSK >spending extra time with our children, teaching them spiriitual vaues and interacting with them.
TSK > taking time deliberatly to admire God's creation spending time outdoors. TBC
---Pierr5358 on 4/30/06

Mod cont:
LEV 27:30-33 tells us that God claims one-tenth of our income as His. Tithe is holy and the Lord uses it to test our stewardship.It is so important that one of every two parables Jesus told was about money, to remove selfishness from our hearts through faithful stewardship of our money.
MAL 3:8-12 the TITHE to be placed in the church treasury to support God's work. Finally, if we are faihtful, God promises to bless us abundently, and His promises are sure!. P.

Moderator - Take the Financial Bible Quiz to learn the scriptures.
---Pierr5358 on 4/30/06

Moderator: Promo for Chistian Stewardship:
PS 50:10-12 tells us that the world and everything in it belongs to God.
1 COR 4:2 tells us about the Christian theory of ownership: we owe nothing, rathe we are stewards - managers- of what God gives to us. We are to be faithful caretakers of what he entrusts us.
1 TIM 6:10 tells us that money in itself is not evil, but the love of money, greed and the craving for money. TBC
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

Moderator: You rightly express alarm considering the condition of the church and the many false doctrines that are being taught. It is my purpose here to help promote the truth only before time runs out! P.

Moderator - All I hear is promotion of Saturday worship. If you have any other doctrines to promote, now is the time. Take the Financial Bible Quiz to properly understand what God says about money.
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

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Moderator: Comments
GEN 14:18-20/28:20-22 seem to indicate that the tithing principle was given by God long before the Mosaic laws were given to Israel. You talk about the impossibility of following such a law but many Christians tithe. Please read carefully MATH 23:23 It tells that Jesus endorced the tithing principle. As for the seal of God, EZEK 20:12 & 20/HEB 4:1-4= THE SABBATH and then in REV 7:1-3 tells about God's people receiving the seal of the Sabbath before the end. Thanks. TBC
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

Moderator: Two questions:
God does own everything. Still he asks us to tithe to help support the ministry even TODAY, does He not? At the end of time there will only two camps: the righteous id by the SEAL OF GOD and the lost id by the Mark of Beast, is that not true? P.

Moderator - No, the New Testament scripture doesn't require tithing as it is impossible to following the complete tithing rules of the Law even if one was a Jew. Christians are required to be cheerful givers and to give as God has blessed them. Yes, but the Seal of God isn't the day Saturday. If that were the case, then there were no Christians prior to 1850, which would be a silly comment. Christians are suppose to have a daily walk not a Saturday only walk with God. Is it possible the Pope might require a Sunday worship for all of mankind? Of course. If he did, I would not be attending that type of church as the scripture is clear the One World Religion is lead by the False Prophet or the friend of the apostate church. Pierre, the church today is almost completely apostate and the false doctrines and false teachings are everywhere. Why don't the SDAs focus on these false doctrines that are sending people to Hell?
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

JT: You are really not telling the truth about how SDA see the IJ. Diagree if you must but don't lie on top of it! P.
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

Sue:Don't bother reading JT's blog about the IJ instead take your time and find the answer to the follow question. Since when Jesus will come again, the final reward of everyone will be decided already, does it make sense to label the part of the judgment just before Jesus returns and checks our record THE INVESTIGATIVE phase of the judgment? It does to me but you decide for yourself!
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

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Sue, if you weren't confused before you read all that, what does the fact that you believe you are confused now tell you? God is certainly not the author of it. Go back to where you were before you became confused and rest there. If you need to change your day of worship, I am certain the ever faithful and "abiding in you" Holy Ghost will convict you to do so. That is what a relationship is all about.
---Linda6563 on 4/29/06

That is the reason behind the Sa/Su controversy. SDAs contend that the Sabbath means ONLY Sa, and that we who worship on other days are essentially apostate because we violate the 4th commandment, or we grill pork chops to eat them.

Peter's vision in Acts 10 was merely symbolic, and that the Jerusalem Council's decision in Acts 15-16 was illegal because it said all meat, except strangled meat is good for food.
---John_T on 4/29/06

Hope you understand that IJ is something NOT found in Scripture, ergo a heresy.

SDAs use a weaving of non-related Scriptures to create from nothing the doctrine that salvation by Christ ALONE is insufficient for salvation. Something else must be added, IJ.

According to IJ, the believer will get rewarded according to the measure he/she was able to keep ALL the OT laws (ceremonial) abolished in Christ. Thus, "It is finished" means "You are own from here, folks".
---John_T on 4/29/06

2 Corinthians 3:13-15 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
---Exzucuh on 4/29/06

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Lupe: I respectfully disagree withyour last blog. Ex.' rules stop us from loving' yet God said: "If you love me, keep my commandments. I hear you say again that since you
worship God every day that is good enough. It seems that you resent God's commanding that you recognize the Sabbath as special and holy. Why I don't get it but I respect you still! P. Moderator: I disagree with your view on tithing. I believe it is still an ordained practice useful to finance the salaries of Pastors P.

Moderator - According to the New Testament it all belongs to God not a tip.
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

Moderator: That comment was "a low blow" ! I did not say what you said so try not to draw conclusion that are not in line with my blog. You and I know that salvation is not all about keeping the Sabbath. It is also about charity and kindness towards others. Ultimately thouh the saints as described in REV are a commandment keeping people. P.

Moderator - Just answer the question. Is part of salvation about worshiping on Saturday?
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

2. day in the Lord. In Christ you would want to worship Him every minute. If we had a rule as you say it would stop us from loving Him everyday. in fact a law. I believe in Christ there is no restriction because we are in love with Christ. Those people in the Old Testament didn't have the love of Christ. So there is a big difference.
---Lupe2618 on 4/29/06

You say Pierr, "when you come to realize/understand that God blessed not Sunday (4th comandment) and you say so what? you could be in some difficulty" What difficulty would I have if I worship Him everyday? I believe the people in the Old Testament not having the Holy Spirit in them did what they wanted to do unless they took at least one day of the week to pray. The New Christian in Christ, wants to worship God everyday because he is in love with Christ and to him everyday is an awesome.

Moderator - It's the same principle with money. The Jews had to bring tithes and offerings. In the New Testament it all belongs to Christ and He let's us give according to our cheerfulness. In the NT, all we have belongs to Him - our worship, time, money, resources.
---Lupe2618 on 4/29/06

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My head is spinning. All this writing about Saturday worship and Sunday worship. I'm more confused now than ever. I just dont know ....
---sue on 4/29/06

4. and that you close your doors to your church except for Saturday and that no one in your denomination will ever worship any other day because you believe in this so much. But you don't close your doors do you? You worship God everyday, I believe. You have put Scripture after Scripture but don't show what the difference or special thing you do that makes worship different.
---Lupe2618 on 4/29/06

3. then I would believe they stand on their believes because they would have a difference in believes and stood by them. In your case there is no difference in worship yet you call it special, what is so special about it? How can you worship different when you worship God? Worshipping God is done the same everyday. The only thing I see as difference is you telling everyone you worship on Saturday's, and everyone is wrong to worship any other day.

Moderator - The difference is the worship of the "day" Saturday versus worshiping the creator.
---Lupe2618 on 4/29/06

2. If there was something you did different like close the doors to your church for worship everyday except Saturday then, that would be a difference. If you had a special song only on Saturday, it would be different. Do you see my point? Take the Jehovah Witnesses point on blood, "they say no blood" so no transfusions, people die, yet almost all eat meat. Meat has blood and even if they say it doesn't they are wrong. You cannot take all the blood out of meat. Now if they all were vegetarians
---Lupe2618 on 4/29/06

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Pierr, you explained but didn't tell the difference in worship. What is the difference when you are worshipping? What kind of worship is special and what is not special. Isn't all worship special and to our Creator? I have read and read everything about what you guys have discussed and I still don't see the difference in how you worship changes from just saying,"I worship on Saturday". What difference does it make to make that statement?
---Lupe2618 on 4/29/06

We Agree! Investagative Judgment is Garbage!!

From Britannica:
Among those who persisted after the failure of Miller's prophecy were Joseph Bates, James White, and his wife, Ellen Harmon White.
These Adventists, called Millerites in the press, believed that Miller had set the right date, but that they had interpreted what had happened incorrectly.
---John_T on 4/29/06

Reading Daniel, chapters 8 and 9, they concluded that God had begun the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuaryi.e., an investigative judgment that would be followed by the pronouncing and then the execution of the sentence of judgment. What actually began in 1844, then, in their view, was an examination of all of the names in the Book of Life. Only after this was completed would Christ appear and beginhis millennial reign.
---John_T on 4/29/06

JT: What is the standard by which we are judged if not the moral law (James 2:12)? Or do you believe that Biblical judgement is heresy? The last group of people that used the word "heresy" so much were burning people at the stake.
---jerry6593 on 4/29/06

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JT: You claim that "It is finished" is the completion of salvation. If that is so, then what are we still doing here. The Bible teaches that salvation is a three-step process: Justification, Sanctification and Glorification. You are stuck at step one, and are hoping for Glorification without passing through step two. Do you really think that you are ready for Heaven with your current character?
---jerry6593 on 4/29/06

Pierre ,, we are then waitng for the correct definition
---alan8869_of_UK on 4/29/06

I feel sad in my heart because we fail to comprehend the awesomeness of God and just how particular He is.
Ex: He commands "Remember the Sabbath day... holy! We argue, TU is just as good! God asked Cain & Abel for an animal sacrifice. Cain brings fruits! God said do not touch the ark. One day, the road was rough. Some guy reached out and was zapped! Moses made one serious mistake > could not enter the land. He struck the rock!LESSON:Let's not mock God! P.

Moderator - From the beginning of Christianity, Christians worshiped daily and met daily. Are all Christians going to hell because they are mocking God except for the SDAs?
---Pierr5358 on 4/29/06

Donna: I am sorry that you had to be exposed to JT's def.of the investigative judgment. It is garbage! P.
---Pierr5358 on 4/28/06

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L cont
You are correct that there is a rule that tells us that since God made the 7th day a special day we should also observe it as such. (4th com) Snce the 7th day was made special, the other days, while good days in themselves, are not on the same level as the Sabbath. Is it wrong to worship on SU? Not in a general sense BUT the day you come to realize/understand that God blessed the Sabbath not Sunday (4th commandment) and you say "So what?" you could be in some difficulty! P.
---Pierr5358 on 4/28/06

First let me stress that it is not I who insist on SA worship. IT IS GOD
who is very particular about the 7th day Sabbath! It is He who created it and set it apart, making it alone a HOLY-DAY! and asking us to REMEMBER IT!
You ask me how Sabbath worship differs, is special, compared to TU for instance. It is about the same difference as between Sunday worship and WE night prayer meeting. TBC
---Pierr5358 on 4/28/06

Paul teaches in romans chapter 14 that days and meat do not matter that the kingdom of God is righteousness and peace in the Holy Ghost
---Exzucuh on 4/28/06

2. later in time and say, you guys with other day worship are not good enough but the Saturday one's are special to me. Not very logical but I guess we will see if our worship on other days is good enough.
---Lupe2618 on 4/28/06

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Pierr, you keep insisting special worship on Saturday's but what is a special worship that is different then other day worship? Sounds more like you want or feel that a rule has to be put that we can call a special worship but doesn't distinquish from other days even if you say Sat. What it seems is that you want to tell the world they are wrong to worship on Sunday or Monday but its ok to worship Saturday and by saying it you are also special sense you said it was Saturday and God will look
---Lupe2618 on 4/28/06

Monitor: No offense but are you saying that it is not true that most christians worship on SU? I think it is very true!
Note I never said it was forbidden to worship on any other day BUT you surely will not deny that He set aside the 7th day on which day we are too offer Him a special worship because it is the only day HE made into a HOLY-DAY, IT IS MORE SPECIAL than TU, even if you go prayer meeting on TU because He made it so! P.

Moderator - Yes, the majority worship on Sunday, but still large groups worship at church on other days also. If someone worships on Wednesday and Saturday is that bad? Is the Wednesday and Sunday worshipper worse than a Saturday only worshiper?
---Pierr5358 on 4/28/06

Investigative Judgment (IJ) is a heresy that says that Jesus did not complete the job of salvation at Calvary.

According to SDA doctrine (sic) mankind will be judged as to how well he has kept OT laws such as Sabbath, or not eating pork chops, then he will be rewarded appropriately by getting into heaven.

It is a heresy because it limits the nature and extent of the Atonement, and makes Jesus a liar when he triumphantly said, "It is finished".
---John_T on 4/28/06

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