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I noticed that many answers to blog questions are done by writing a lot of stuff but never making a point on the question ask. I sometimes read what is answered but never really get the point. Why avoid the point? Why not just put the point across and then write all the stuff to that point?

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 ---Lupe2618 on 4/29/06
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Gnostisism is Knowledge. It is a scientific knowledge of what really is in the realm of God. I believe it is also Eygytian doctrines in the sciences and other fields
---anonymous on 2/5/07

What is Gnosticism? What churches follow this belief?

Christian Gnosticism or Marcionite. In orthodox Christianity, grace redeems this world; in Gnosticism, it redeems the self from nature.
---paula on 2/4/07

Torn, you got to the point real fast and it didn't take a long message to do it. praise God. So true.
---Lupe2618 on 5/26/06

---tom on 5/26/06

Thank you, Karen, for the reaction. I have been away for so long since our Internet connection has been very slow. When I posted that response, I thought there was only one page. I realized just now that this blog question has already four pages of different reactions. I have to read the responses from the very start. Now I see Lupe's point. (I am sorry, Lupe, for my statement regarding you being mean). But I hope you would see my point too. Given the conditions that I was in, I gave that response.
---Bebet3754 on 5/9/06

If you happen to have the e-sword program on your computer and also have the available dictionaries that can be downloaded, go to the ISBN dictionary, click on the search option (the little binoculars) and type in "gnosticism". This is where I got my information and it is pretty comprehensive. Somebody obviously studied it extensively.
---Linda6563 on 5/9/06

The meaning of the word "gnostic" is so exhaustive as to not have a simple definition. However, in my last several responses, I put in quotation marks the "qualifications" of a gnostic and below each qualification what I actually believe that is so opposite what they believe as to not even be funny. Just read the posts I blogged that have strange sounding doctrine within quotation marks.
---Linda6563 on 5/9/06

What does gnostic mean?
---Ulrika on 5/9/06

Tina5349 it is saying you are no longer a member and I would like to email you. Can you drop me an email here at ChristiaNet? My address here is Donna9759. Thank you.
---Donna9759 on 5/9/06

Have a look at the ChristiaNet Questions Blog and post your question there. Be sure to start it with


This way you will be more likely to get their attention.
---Bruce5656 on 5/9/06

My question is "HOW" does a person get hold of the Moderator? Or someone who can answer some of my questions about the "use" of this site. I have come in here several times but am still confused. Thank you for any help you can give me.
---Christy on 5/9/06

Bebet, I believe the explanation you gave is so true. Yet what I think the question is refering to is that many times people answer as I have seen many times, and they write a whole lot and never mention what their point is. I believe it was ask as a helper for others so they don't read wrong what someone puts down. It is easy to read into the answer and come out with the wrong intepretation of what is been said, if the point is not given. I myself don't think its something unreasonable.
---karen on 5/9/06

"Moderator - I see you are not gnostic. Your first sentence by itself sounded like you were agreeing with Tina."

Should have read a little further before I answered your first question :). I just did what she told me to do.
---Linda6563 on 5/9/06

"Moderator - Are you into Gnosticism Linda? If so, you might want to know that is was the number one heresy the early church fought."

No. Tina told me to go search it out and I did. The words in quotation marks come from ISBE Dictionary, which was pretty comprehensive in its exhaustive study of Gnosticism. If you read what is in quotation marks and then my reply (not in quotation marks), you will see that I do not believe this way nor am I "into it".

Moderator - Yes, I noted that in later posting.
---Linda6563 on 5/9/06

Linda, the conversation is over. May I suggest a book? "In the Face of God." by Michael Horton.
---Tina5349 on 5/9/06

(Part 2)Lupe: Therefore, our answers will be based on the points that we have seen from the original question and from the responses from the bloggers. We have to develop a special way in reading the blogs. If you can't see that the responses each one gave is dependent on the point the bloggers have seen, then there is no point for this blog or forum to exist.
---Bebet3754 on 5/9/06

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(Part 1)Lupe, I am sorry to say that your statement, "I noticed that many answers to blog questions are done by writing a lot of stuff but never making a point on the question ask", is mean. A question will have different answers because each of us comes from different backgrounds and we have different interpretations to the question. Besides this is a forum.
---Bebet3754 on 5/9/06

Do you mean that the reply that we are going to give must always be in relation to the original question posted? That would be easy to do. But remember that we are also reacting to some responses given ahead. In other words, we have to read the original question (that is having a point) and read the first responses (which have other points too). In other words, we have a choice which point to answer, the point which original question possess or the points that the responses are making.
---Bebet3754 on 5/9/06

As for the rest of that "qualification", I don't have a clue what it is talking about.

So, I have done what you said Tina and have checked it all out and have examined myself to see if I be in the faith and have even laid it before my Father. He isn't saying to me what you are saying.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

"An attempt at the solution of the problems of creation and of the origin of evil by the conception of a Demiurge, i.e. a Creator or Artificer of the world as distinct from the Supreme Deity, and also by means of emanations extending between God and the visible universe. It should be observed that this conception merely concealed the difficulties of the problem, and did not solve them."

I don't believe there is a problem with creation and, if there was, I couldn't solve it.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

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"The essential separation of matter and spirit, the former of these being essentially evil, and the source from which all evil has arisen."

My responses over time have proven that I don't believe this is true.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

I believe all Scripture is given by inspiration of the one and only true God.

"A claim on the part of the initiated to a special knowledge of the truth, a tendency to regard knowledge as superior to faith, and as the special possession of the more enlightened, for ordinary Christians did not possess this secret and higher doctrine."

No knowledge is superior to faith. We walk by faith. We can all know the Father by beholding the Son.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

We are brought into communion with the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ. I do not measure a man by his bodily "discipline". A man's discipline is not the measure of his faith. And I definitely do not believe I can go and do anything I want to (licentiousness) because of grace.

"The Scriptures of the Old Testament were ascribed to the Demiurge or inferior Creator of the world, who was the God of the Jews, but not the true God."
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

"The teaching, on the one hand, of asceticism as the means of attaining to spiritual communion with God, and, on the other hand, of an indifference which led directly to licentiousness.

The word asceticism comes from the Greek askesis which means practice, bodily exercise, and more especially, atheletic training. I don't believe that either.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

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"A denial of the true humanity of Christ, a docetic Christology, (which looked upon the earthly life of Christ and especially on His sufferings on the cross as unreal."

I don't deny either one of those. I believe both of them were real, very real.

"The denial of the personality of the Supreme God, and the denial also of the free will of man."

I don't deny either His personality and definitely not the free will of man.

Moderator - I see you are not gnostic. Your first sentence by itself sounded like you were agreeing with Tina.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

...., a religion that regards this world as the creation of a series of evil archons/powers who wish to keep the human soul trapped in an evil physical body, a religion that preaches a hidden wisdom or knowledge only to a select group as necessary for salvation or escape from this world."

Not hardly, Tina. Not even close.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

1. "A one-sentence description of Gnosticism: a religion that differentiates the evil god of this world (who is identified with the god of the Old Testament) from a higher more abstract God revealed by Jesus Christ.

Moderator - Are you into Gnosticism Linda? If so, you might want to know that is was the number one heresy the early church fought.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

Jesus said if you don't take up your cross and follow him you are not worthy of him, our cross is the putting away of sin, by seeking God through Jesus Christ,who gives us power and victory by the Holy Ghost.Ye shall recieve power after the holy Ghost comes upon you,power to be a witness and a witness has power over sin that is his witness.
---exzuc6636 on 5/8/06

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Tinas problem is not with Linda, but Paul:

Ro 7:14 I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing... 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
---John_T on 5/8/06

Consider it dropped. But I'm sorry, Linda, you and I are not in communion. We are not eating at the same table. Do me a favor and read up on Christian Gnosticism. I think you will recognize much of your teaching which is not consistent with true historic Christianity.
---Tina5349 on 5/8/06

Why don't we just drop it and be in Christ who we are, right in His presence eating at the same table and enjoying the One at the head of the table? Food fights are not allowed :). Jesus said so. Grace and peace.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

If the meat (the will of the Father) I eat grieves you, then it is better that I eat it to myself and before Father alone. To be right in anyone's eyes is not so important that relationship with one another in love is placed on the altar of being right. We are all right with Him by virtue of His work and I would much rather be in relationship with you in, by, and through Jesus than to be seen as right.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

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Well, Tina, I had replied to you but it was 706 words long and I don't have any desire to waste your time or anyone elses. You think what you think and no amount of words I say to you or anyone else will change that if you refuse to hear the spirit of the words. If you want to hear what I had to say, I have a pen pal id. If not, you are not obligated in any way. I chose to take the time to type it all out and save it but that doesn't mean you have to consider it.
---Linda6563 on 5/8/06

#1Linda, you acknowledged in a previous post that you sin and you did not deny the struggle against sin. So which is it? Either your old Adam is completely wiped out and you have left this world and gone to heaven where there is no more need for forgiveness, or you are still here on this earth struggling against sin and in need of Gods mercy.
---Tina5349 on 5/8/06

#2New creation means a completely new creature. It does *not* say that I have a new will. The will is an aspect of man. That which is born of flesh is flesh. That which is born of Spirit is Spirit. There are two births, two creatures made from God. One under the curse because of the flesh and sin of Adam, and the other under the blessing of Jesus the Christ through redemption and sanctification of the Holy Spirit. I will not be rid of the old Adam until physical death.
---Tina5349 on 5/8/06

#3It is not a *change in my will*, but that our merciful God is willing to declare me (a sinner) not guilty. Grace is a gift. I am a saint and a sinner at the same time and I am in good company. Rom 7. "Chief of sinners though I be, Jesus gave His life for me." Yes, there is growth in this Christian life, however, as a Christian matures he becomes more and more aware of his sin and his need for a Savior. As we grow in Christ, we see more clearly why Jesus needed to suffer and die for us.
---Tina5349 on 5/8/06

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#4Linda, it is possible even within Christendom to be too spiritual. Each time God is encountered in the scriptures, people did not react with joy, but with fear and trembling. I'm not sure who it is you've been meeting with, but I question whether it is Almighty God. Being in the presence of God only made men more aware of their sinfulness. Isaiah 6:5.
---Tina5349 on 5/8/06

#5You seem to want some sort of excursion into mystic fairy lands where you can create your own definition of a God that pleases you (an idol). When one puts a greater emphasis on the theology of glory as opposed to the theory of the cross, one is more focused on himself and his own spirituality (subjective feelings) rather than looking outside of himself to the grace and saving work of Jesus Christ (objective knowledge) or the written Word of God.
---Tina5349 on 5/8/06

#6Linda, what you teach is confusing and contradictory. You seem to think you have some special, secret, higher knowledge known only to the initiated select few. This is dangerously close to Gnosticism. Since the beginning man has wanted to puff himself up. 1 Tim 6:20 Paul tells us to avoid worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"-- which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.
---Tina5349 on 5/8/06

#7 It seems from what you say that you think you have found out something that no-one else here knows- how to become like God. You think you have some sort of special gift or calling. But this is the lie of Satan from the beginning- "ye shall not surely shall be as gods." Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, Gen 3:5." What you teach, Linda, is dangerously close to Christian Gnosticism.
---Tina5349 on 5/8/06

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We are to have the eyes of our understanding enlightened that we may know what is the hope of HIS calling and what the riches of the glory of HIS inheritance IN the saints and what is the exceeding greatness of HIS power to usward who believe, according to the working of HIS mighty power. Again, His words not mine. Grace is not just God's Riches at Christ's Expense. It is also God's Righteous Ability Constantly Expressed. Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, not continue in it.
---Linda6563 on 5/7/06

However, we are to grow in His grace and knowledge and come to know the love of Christ that passes knowledge that we may be filled with all the fullness of God and I do believe that growth in His grace and knowledge changes our experience of His life in every realm of man in this earth.
---Linda6563 on 5/7/06

What does "new creature" mean to you, Tina. A new creature is one who never existed before. Those are God's words, not mine. And if you are not what existed before, then who are you? If you were a sinner before you were born again, what are you now if you are born again? And Gnosticism is the belief that man is saved by knowledge instead of grace. I never said that. I believe we are saved by grace through faith. Every man who ever believed on Jesus is saved.
---Linda6563 on 5/7/06

The difference between imputation amd infusion is the difference between a charge card and a tea bag.

Christ's righteousness is imputed, or charged onto our "account". Our sin nature is not changed until glorification.

Infusion takes part of the original, essentially changing it, and adds it to another item, hot water and changes it into tea.

The former is the Protestant view, the latter is the RC (trans-substitution) view
---John_T on 5/7/06

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Linda, what you write sounds an awful lot like some strange form of Christian Gnosticism or Marcionite. In orthodox Christianity, grace redeems this world; in Gnosticism, it redeems the self from nature.
---Tina5349 on 5/7/06

#2 Help me understand, Bruce. How is it that God is capable of baptizing the 2nd or 3rd time, (the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer, your words not mine) but not the first (and only) time with water and the Word for the forgiveness of sins as the scriptures say? Why, in your opinion, can He not use the hands and mouths of men to accomplish this? Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5
---Tina5349 on 5/7/06

We do suffer persecution and trials but in any trial, there is a faithful and true witness who stands up and tells the truth. The truth He speaks is truth whether you ever believe it or not and when He stands up in me and says, "By My stripes you were healed", my whole being responds to His voice for the words He speaks unto me are Spirit and they are life. In other words, His words quicken my MORTAL body.
---Linda6563 on 5/6/06

We are either the very righteousness of God in Christ Jesus because Jesus was made sin and blessed because He became the curse or we are not. There is no incomplete anything there and no gray area. Either that is true or God is a liar. Let God be true and every man be found a liar. To partake of His sufferings does not mean we suffer what He suffered on our behalf. It means we come to recognize that Father God identified us there in Him and His suffering was our suffering.
---Linda6563 on 5/6/06

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"His righteousness *imputed* NOT infused to us."

Imputed or put on account was old testament righteousness. It was "on account" because Jesus had not yet died and rose again. New Testament righteousness (who is Christ) is imparted to us upon receiving Him. He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. We are either a new creation in Him or we are still who we used to be in Adam.
---Linda6563 on 5/6/06

#1 Bruce said: "the Trinity, the Incarnation..." are scriputral teachings. Baptisimal regeneration is not. Rx: Again, that is *your* opinion. Scriptural evidence clearly suggests otherwise. Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom. 6:34, 1 Corinth 6:11, Eph. 5:26, Titus 3:5, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21.
---Tina5349 on 5/6/06

"God does not take away our sin nature until we are changed and given a new body. 1Corinthians 15:42-54"

Your sin nature in spirit has already been taken away. The carnal nature (spirit) of your mind is being dealt with as you partake of the bread and wine. And your body will be changed when He appears, which is a direct result of the mind being renewed.
---Linda6563 on 5/6/06

The "the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, Resurrection, the two natures of Christ" are scriputral teachings. Baptisimal regeneration is not.

No one here has ever said the Catholic did not acknowledge some truth. But the false doctrines strike at the heart of the truth of salvation. Paul spoke of Satan appearing as an "angel of light." (II Cor 11:14) Who would accept him if he came with all the wrong teachings?
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/06

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But when you mix some truth with the false it makes it eaiser to accept the false.
Even Satan knows and believes that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh and he is the saviour of man. (James 2:19) That knowledge will do him no good whatsoever.

Galatians 1:8, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/06

Hey Bruce, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, Resurrection, the two natures of Christ, etc. All Catholic teaching. Does that make them wrong? If you believe so strongly that my belief regarding baptism is heresy and likely to send me to hell, I would think you would want to correct me out of brotherly love and concern for my soul. You seem to have time to discuss other issues at length.
---Tina5349 on 5/6/06

Brother Bruce, I alway enjoy your answers and it is great hearing from you. Thank you brother.
---Lupe2618 on 5/6/06

Very well said, Ulrika.
---Tina5349 on 5/6/06

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Not all Pentecostals Linda, not all baptist, not all of anyone. This is not a matter of one denomination, it is a problem with the church. The body of Christ. It did start with John Wesley for I have his books and have read what he started. I believe your view on the atonement is wrong for we do have corruptable bodies, that are dying each day. As you can see by the request for prayer. As a body, we bring our request to Christ, only He knows the results of anyone and His decision is always perfect.
---Lupe2618 on 5/6/06

When we are saved, God forgives us and takes away our sins (I think that means he takes away the penalty for our sin, spiritual death).Psalms 103:12

Jesus paid the price for our sin. 1Peter 2:24

God does not take away our sin nature until we are changed and given a new body. 1Corinthians 15:42-54

We are given the tools to resist and fight temptation in the meantime. Ephesians 6:11-18, James 4:7
---Ulrika on 5/6/06

#3 There is no resurrection without the cross. On the contrary, your whole life is a cross and resurrection life. Daily dying, daily rising. Confessing your sins, hearing His word of Absolution you are forgiven, His blood has been shed for you.
---Tina5349 on 5/6/06

#2Christ doesn't promise that our lives will get better, or that we will stop sinning. In fact, Christians often suffer more, and are definitely more aware of their sin. It is the faith of the Crucified One. Our sin becomes His sin. His righteousness becomes ours. It is the great exchange! Our sins *imputed* to Him. His righteousness *imputed* NOT infused to us. There are no sins left to accuse. Our whole life is a cross and resurrection life. Confess your sins, hear His word of forgiveness
---Tina5349 on 5/6/06

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#1 Some here say, "if you only would surely receive these good things-health, wealth, prosperity." Beware. These are wolves in sheep's clothing. "If only you had enough faith, etc., your life would get better." No. Experience reveals that the Christian and the unbeliever share equally in suffering. Both get ill, both suffer the effects of the sin of others and their own. Both lose jobs and loved ones.
---Tina5349 on 5/6/06

Thanks for the encouragement.

Language like "it is not the absence of baptism that damns the soul, but the despising of baptism." is indeed very close to Catholic dogma with talk about "baptism of desire" etc.

I don't believe you can effectivly deal with that mentality in a form like this. I have zero interest, and even less time at this point, in getting involved in a discussion on baptisimal regeneration.
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/06

Analogy- man woman relationship to man God relationship, courtship-(repentence-broken contrite spirit)
marriage cerimony,legalization and name becoming one- (water baptism)
consumation and intimacy-(baptism in the Holy Spirit).Roman 7:4
---Exzucuh on 5/6/06

Lupe, wouldn't it strike you as interesting that "Pentecostals" are the ones who believe what you call heresy, particularly since the baptism of the Holy Ghost is the defining mark of Pentecostals? Like I said, the baptism of the Holy Ghost brings more light (understanding) than what you previously had without it.
---Linda6563 on 5/5/06

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Tina, if He took your sins, what are you still doing with them? If I come to you and take something from you, you do not still possess it because I have it. Even so much more God did in Christ when He not only removed our sins, He dealt with the nature of sin. Jesus didn't just bear sin, He became it and removed it far away, along with the curse. That is how He fulfilled the scapegoat aspect of the two fold Lord's goat/scapegoat offering.
---Linda6563 on 5/5/06

There is a doctrine of perfectionism that holds that holiness or perfect love, brought about by the grace of God, is attainable by every Christian in this life and sets believers free from willful sin. The doctrine grew out of the teaching of John Wesley and continued through the early Pentacostal movement. This attainment of perfection is seen as a second work of grace that is wrought instantaneously in the heart of the believer. What this doctrine does is, it has an inflated view of one's own
---Lupe2618 on 5/5/06

Linda said, "just keep sinning and hating your neighbor. I use those two examples not because I believe you do either one of those" Yes, Linda you have me pegged, I do these things and worse every day. Take it up with Jesus. He took all my sins, past, present, and future to the cross.
---Tina5349 on 5/5/06

When He rose again, that vital union was not severed but something had taken place. The wicked man had been taken and the righteous was left. Even though we have sin dwelling in the members, we are to yield the members and when you yield the members, the spirit man in union with Christ is expressed. When He appears in and through us, He appears without sin or anything else that Adam released in the earth.
---Linda6563 on 5/5/06

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In other words, where our faith rests determines who is expressed in and through the body, the man of flesh where sin lurks or the man of the spirit where righteousness dwells. I agree with what you said about the conflict but I don't agree that we must sin everyday or that we are even sinners anymore. I believe we are new creatures and the very righteousness of God in Christ Jesus because Jesus was made sin with our sin, coming into vital union with us in our fallenness.
---Linda6563 on 5/5/06

If one is dead to sin and alive to God, Tina, and he/she believes that, is it not at least reasonable to expect that what is dead is not an expression anymore and what is alive is? Or even better, that the living Spirit brings life to the dead body? If our born again spirits are in union with the risen and seated Christ and we walk in the spirit, then how can anything other but the risen and seated Christ (who is Righteousness) be expressed?
---Linda6563 on 5/5/06

We all agree that sin is sin, even to the point of judging one another, and we all agree that we are to walk in love. However, we leave out the mental, physical, and financial aspects of that work. It ought not be so.
---Linda6563 on 5/5/06

And true trusting in the gospel (the death, burial, and resurrection) will result in the expression of the life He came to give in every area of man. If you don't believe that, then just keep sinning and hating your neighbor. I use those two examples not because I believe you do either one of those but because the spiritual and the social aspects of redemption seem to be the only two parts that most believers accept.
---Linda6563 on 5/5/06

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#3 A believer's sin is the same sin and just as great as that of the unbeliever. To the believer, however, it is forgiven and not imputed, while to the unbeliever it is retained and imputed. Galatians 5:18 "But if you are led by the Spirit"...Note the verb is passive. How is the Christian led by the Spirit? By his faith in Jesus.

Paul is not saying that Christians do not do good works, or that it is all right to live in sin. However, we are not justified by law but by faith.
---Tina5349 on 5/5/06

Linda #2 As a result you cannot do the things that you wish to do. Someone who is not aware of this conflict within the Christian will be completely overwhelmed by a spirit of sadness and will despair. In fact, the godlier one is, the more aware he is of this conflict.
---Tina5349 on 5/5/06

#1Linda, to walk or live in the Holy Spirit means to trust in the Gospel promises. The words in Gal 5 express a promise. The Spirit struggles against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit. Paul is saying that the sinful flesh is a burden to the Christian because of the conflict within the Christian.
---Tina5349 on 5/5/06

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