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Bad Things After The Ratpure

A friend raised in a bible believing family told me that as Christians we won't go through the end times such as the anti-christ ruling, the one world government and needing the mark to buy and sell. Will that happen after the ratpure?

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Does any of these scripture tell you when?
Do they say it will be the last day... or do they say it will be 7 years before the last day?

What you give as proof simply saids "In the air" nothing else!

Now Zacheriah did say the Last Day and hmm??? so did Saul and again and again so did Jesus The Christ.

I gave you the exact "WORD FOR WORD" quotes.

All else is manmade heresy based on the delusions of a 15 yrs old deranged witch.

Maybe you Pre-trib heretics should switch Prophetess and go with the SDAs Ellen White for a change.
---John on 12/27/10

Matt. 24:3, the DISCIPLES asked about signs of the end. Jesus' answer TO THEM in verse 4 was, let no man deceive you.
Matt. 24 was spoken by the Lord Himself to the 12 representing ISRAEL.
One deception in the claim that the BoC will go into or through the trib.
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Paul only, gives us Scriptures concerning the rapture, the catching up of the Church, His Body.

The Second Coming Zech 14:4 Acts 1:11 is when Christ will stand on the Mount of Olives.
If you mix Paul's doctrine, the rapture of the Church with the Second Coming, then you mix law and Grace. And, when you mix law and Grace, Satan smiles and God is grieved.
---michael_e on 12/27/10

John, Christ didn't lie. You're different. You have lied or you don't know what you are saying. Which is it?
You post 2nd Coming events only.
You say you don't want what the greek means, who is being spoken to or what the Scripture means. What is left!!?
You peddle a humanistic view.
Tell us where it is written that we should read the Bible. You can't because the word Bible is not in Scripture.
The words catching away are but we use the Latin word Rapture to explain it. Jesus was raptured in Mark 16:19 & Luke 24:51.
Tell us where the Church has gone after Rev 3:22?
If you would really study the Scriptures and not the stuff that you do you would see it also.
You even deny dispensations. Whew! Oh, what do you study?
---Elder on 12/27/10

its simple thess.ch4 says clearly we meet Him in the air..Zech.says clearly His foot first touches the mount of olives.All sripture is given for doctrine reproof correction etc so if you dont like Pauls teachings you are in error.
---richard on 12/27/10

Elder then please show me the direct quotes in scripture supporting your claims. I showed you what Christ said in black and white. Did he lie?

Does MichaelE attend your church. He seems to be a cheerleader.


1) The Greek here means...

2) Here he's talking to them , but here he's talking to us.

3)This verse "means"

NO, I want to see where it saids "and they shall be raptured before the Great tribulation".

I did show you where He said "AFTER" The Tribulation(MATT: 24) and where he said "On the last day"(JOHN 6) and lots more direct quotes.

---John on 12/27/10

John I have addressed your witch theory in the past. The catching away doctrine goes back to the 4th century at least.
Once again there have been raptures/catching away(s) in the past. What are you going to do with those?
Not being able to discern 2nd coming teaching from the catching away is the problem.
The message to the churches is given in Rev 3:1-22. Then John states "After this." A door was open and a Trumpet sounded just like I Thess 4:13-18. The church is not seen after this. So, where is the comfort if we go through Jacob's Trouble?
Do you not believe in dispensational truth?
The ones who can't see this are the ones who won't.
---Elder on 12/27/10

---Elder on 12/26/10
Very good post, very refreshing to read a Biblical post, instead of an opinion from the internet.
---michael_e on 12/27/10

Elder..obviously you are a Dispensationlist/PreTrib Pastor .

A doctrine which began with a 15yr old Scottish Occultist/Witch (Margaret McDonnell)who said she had a vision concerning Dispensation and Pretrib.

So Pastor John Darby whose church in the UK was about to close needed some "magic" to bring back his flock. So he visited her Seances. John Scoffield brought it America (1850s).

And so it is today, since both of these heretical concepts bring Mega churches and so big $$$ to Pastors who seek an earthly Kingdom for them$$$elf$.

It is a scam to lure as many innocent people into your church and, as many dollars into your bank.

Try Benny Hinns faith Healing or Credflow Dollars money scams.

---John on 12/26/10

Rhonda Christ doesn't return twice. In Thess He never comes to earth. He calls His people up. Remember it has happened in the past.
Again the confusion is that folks do not discern the Catching Away from the Second Coming Scriptures.
Next, if there is so much peace why does another war take place at the end of the 1000 years.
Here is the basic outline,
OT time
NT time
Church Age, Acts to Rapture
7 Yr Tribulation
2nd Coming
1000 yr reign
Final war of Satan
Eterenty Future
---Elder on 12/26/10

Rhonda, you read my post wrong. It said on the last day. The Second coming.

You must know by now how I feel about Pre-trib heresy.

The post was reffering to a Heretical rumor that was spread in Thessoninica that Christ had already "Raptured" all the believers in Jerusalem and the Thessalonians missed the boat. It was spread by Heretics of that time.

That is why Saul wrote the 2 letters to the Thessalonians.
---John on 12/25/10

Paul is writing to console them and to let them know the sequence. 1st the dead will rise and the antichrist will come. THEN the saints who are alive will meet the dead and the Lord in the air on the last day etc.

no it does not say that at all


When Christ returns He will bring Gods Kingdom to earth peace & Christ will be ruling from Jerusalem ...since Christ brings PEACE the times of sorrow aka tribulation has ENDED

instead you tell the LIE that Christ returns collects some people and then the tribulation

so in essence according to antichrist rapture theory Christ MUST return twice which contradicts Holy Scripture
---Rhonda on 12/25/10

The Bible teaches absolutely nothing about the "ratpur" And what it teaches about the "rapture", is highly debatable.
---Donna22 on 12/25/10

1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be IGNORANT,
Apparently, someone is Ignorant.
If then all they had was the OT, this language must have been kept secret(Deut. 29:29)
Today we have the complete word, and we still can't find it any place , but in Paul's writngs, so it was kept secret or the risen Christ must have made a mistake. you decide
---michael_e on 12/25/10

effectively the dead and the quick go together but all you pre-trib knockers are unread concerning the scriptures and have no real knowledge of the subject you love to mock...good luck with the anti-christ, shame about the guilotine...(only joking have fun!).
---richard on 12/25/10

1 Thess 4, saids absolutely nothing about "When". In fact it saids "The dead will rise first", which is contrary to what Pre-trib heretics say.

In fact these letters concern rumors that were heard in Greece(Thessonolica) that Jesus had already returned in Jerusalem and raptured up the believers(spread by Heretics as well). Paul is writing to console them and to let them know the sequence. 1st the dead will rise and the antichrist will come. THEN the saints who are alive will meet the dead and the Lord in the air on the last day etc.

2nd Thess2.
"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed."
---John on 12/24/10

1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
If this had been taught before, why would they be ignorant of this information? What OT information could be applied to those who had received salvation, justification and redemption APART from the source of salvation, justification and redemption - the nation of Israel?

Could it be, that Paul had a revelation that applied to saved Gentiles that up to this point had not been written down?
---michael_e on 12/24/10

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John you are right for once. You are getting better.
I meant to say you want people to reject those two and accept your statements.
You then post Matt 24:29-31,
John 6:39,40,44,54,
John 11:24, John 12:48 and John 17:15 in error to "prove" your point.
These verses have nothing to do with the rapture but are about the Second Coming.
You pervert the Scripture and then want people to listen to you.
For an example in Matt 24 the disciples asked Jesus what was the signs of His coming not anything about the Rapture. You just don't want people to see that. Why? Is it that you don't understand yourself? You do not rightly divide the Word of Truth. That is why you are confused about this.
---Elder on 12/24/10

Paul taught a "mystery resurrection" for the church the BoC.

LOL just a SIMPLE TWIST of word smith-ing and you have created a whole new meaning and a LIE

the MYSTERY IS that some will not believe there is a resurrection of ALL never does it IMPLY or allude to some fantasy of a "catching away" one must ADD to Holy Word of God to make the claims you make

the TRUTH is Christ returns only ONCE and when HE does there will be peace on earth and the times of sorrow aka tribulation will be OVER

Israel was PROTECTED during Gods wraths and so WILL Christ protect those who OBEY HIM
---Rhonda on 12/24/10

Jesus HAS "kept" us in the world these past 2000 years and the church has had its share of tribulation,but the end time tribulation is a specific thing...not just a play on words,read the details (was 666 relevant for the dark ages?...of course not!).
---richard on 12/24/10

Yet he wants you to believe something said by someone in 1830.
---Elder on 12/24/10

ON CONTRERE' my friend. It is "YOU" who wants us to believe what this 15yr. old Witch said in 1830.


And, then, he wants you to believe him.
---Elder on 12/24/10

TRUE! I want you to believe HIM!


2)JOHN 6:39,40,44,54 (on THE LAST DAY I will raise them up..)
3)JOHN11:24 (...ON THE LAST DAY)
4)JOHN 12:48 (...ON THE LAST DAY)

---John on 12/24/10

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It's common to hear many deny the "catching away" of the BoC was preached before the 1800's.
Paul taught a "mystery resurrection" for the church the BoC. Even if the "mystery resurrection" was never preached after Paul, the internet doesn't change the truth of scriptures. Most misconceptions are due to failure to "rightly divide the word.
In blenderized gospel circles, Matt 24:37 is taught as the same as 1 Thess. 4:13, WRONG
1 Cor. 15:51-53 Paul, under the inspiration of the HS, calls this resurrection a "mystery",
Paul IS THE Apostle to the Gentiles. He's not writing to Israel. Israel has her promise of resurrection applicable to her prophetic program.Acts 3:19-21
---michael_e on 12/24/10

\\One deception preached to the Christian, is the Body of Christ will go into or through the tribulation.\\

Jesus said, "I pray that You NOT take them out of this world, but keep them safe from the evil one."

The Rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus. Take us out of this world."

Whose prayer do you think the Father will grant?
---Cluny on 12/24/10

Typical responce from someone like John. He said, "Someone in 375 AD said somethng. I think not!" Yet he wants you to believe something said by someone in 1830. And, then, he wants you to believe him.
Com'on John disprove the "raptures" that have all ready taken place.
As far as the cigar... when we both stand before God I am going to non-smoking maybe you are going to the smoking section, save your cigar. Does it have a UPC code? You won't be able to sell it if it doesn't.
---Elder on 12/24/10

Actually, this quote from Pseudoephraem had to have been written AFTER the time of the real St. Ephraim the Syrian.

It would have taken a while for the writings of the real one to have gained any respect and authority.
---Cluny on 12/24/10

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As far back as 373 AD Epharaem the Syrian taught and wrote about the Lord removing His Saints before such a time.
---Elder on 12/20/10

Close Elder, But NO cigar.
The writings you are reffering to, was Psuedo Epharaem. A Psuedographica Manuscript. He himself never claimed or wrote that.

Even so... is this an authority we need to respect or consider. Someone in 375 AD said somethng.

I think not!

The problem is those who entertain this heresy are grabbing at straws with unfathomable faith in finding something ANYTHING to support their heretical claims. I posted several times the facts and history concerning this issue.

Try again!
---John on 12/23/10

One deception preached to the Christian, is the Body of Christ will go into or through the tribulation.

Paul alone reveals doctrines, practices and the end of the BoC on earth.
Paul alone reveals salvation by faith alone in the finished work of the Cross.
How Christ died for our sins, shed His Blood and our FAITH IN IT brings justification.
Paul ALONE gives instruction for Communion service, instructions for Deacons, instructions for the local church. Paul teaches us the end of the Body of Christ on earth. Paul alone gives us scriptures concerning what many ridicule, the rapture or the catching up of the Church the BoC. The language of I Cor 15:51-54, I Thess 4:13-18, II Thess 2:1-3 is nowhere else in our Bible.

---michael_e on 12/24/10

No, these happen BEFORE the Rapture.

There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

Those who are waiting for it will be the first to fall down and worship the Beast.
---Cluny on 12/23/10

//Elder on 12/20/10//
Amen elder, makes a lot of sense
---michael_e on 12/23/10

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If you don't understand Scripture correctly you would think there is no pre- Jacob's trouble catching away. Jacob's trouble is the Great Tribulation not just tribulation. Jesus said He'd keep the church from this time.
As far back as 373 AD Epharaem the Syrian taught and wrote about the Lord removing His Saints before such a time.
The 1830 Margaret MacDonald attack is just another confusion of what God promised. Raptures have already taken place and there are at least two more in the future.
Mixing Second Coming with Rapture Scripture is the main problem.
There are many writtting before MacDonald on this subject. The confusers would not have you know this.
---Elder on 12/20/10

Ofcourse if you believe in this Heresy of Pre-trib Rapture. Bad things will indeed happen to you after!
---John on 12/19/10

Is a pritrib rapture horsey purebred?...I jest.
---Eloy on 12/19/10


It was started (19th century) by a Witch named Margaret McDonald(Google it)passed to John Darby then to John Scoffield who brought to America.

Tribulation is for believers, Wrath is for the wicked. All believers have gone through tribulation. Why would G-d give "YOU" a pass??? It comes from the word Tribul. A sled use to seperate the Wheat from the Chaff. A testing of faith.


MATT 24:29-31
JOHN 17:15
JOHN 6:39-40,44,54
JOHN 11:24
JOHN 12:48
DAN 12:1-3

---John on 12/18/10

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there is no rapture

rapture is anti-christ to Holy Word

the RESURRECTION OF ALL happens when Christ RETURNS to earth to rule in Jerusalem as King of Kings when all governments on earth (whatever is left after the great time of sorrow aka tribulation)

Christ returns once and when HE does this will usher in PEACE on earth

Christ is SEEN by ALL the earth when HE returns and the times of sorrow will be over

until then man cannot ever bring peace to earth ONLY Christ can with Gods Kingdom on Earth
---Rhonda on 12/18/10

. Will that happen after the ratpure?
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Everyone who has not trusted in christ will be killed by the brightness of his coming. So there wil be no activities on earth after the rapture. Untill 100 years pass
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
---francis on 12/16/10

//Did Noah SUFFER God's wrath? Well, maybe being cooped up to some is suffering?
---kathr4453 on 9/22/10//
You are right Kath, Noah might have had "cabin fever" but those outside the ark suffered the wrath.
---michael_e on 12/16/10

The Tribulation such as has never been begins with the Day of the Lord, not to confuse with "The Lord's Day", or the Day of Christ.

The Day of the Lord, prophesied in the OT and again re-iterated by Christ in Matthew is "the Day of HIS WRATH", spoken MANY times and clarified many times.

We, the Church are told we are saved from the wrath to come. Why, because we are IN HIM, and will be WITH HIM.

Now many think we are to SUFFER in this tribulation, and those who believe in the rapture don't want to suffer. However NOW the CHURCH suffers, but it's a different kind of suffering.

Did Noah SUFFER God's wrath? Well, maybe being cooped up to some is suffering?

---kathr4453 on 9/22/10

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**It is an idea brought on my misinterpretation of scripture (another solid argument against Sola Scriptura).**

If the idea is a misinterpretation of scripture, that would support the concept of Sola Scripture because the pre-trib rapture would be a result of a new "tradition" and not based on scripture.
---Rod4Him on 9/16/10

I believe your friend is correct, that the Church the Body of Christ will be "caught up" as Paul writes of the mystery program revealed to him by the ascended Christ, and will not be here for the tribulation period.
The trib is a prophesied event.
The "catching away" rapture of the boC was never prophesied.
---michael_e on 9/16/10

After a bit more research, I stand corrected. Thank you for showing the value of why research is important for such a difficult subject.
---Jerald_Archer on 9/16/10

Daniel 12:1 there shall be a time of trouble,.. and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout... and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together

What these texts say is that

A: ALl whose names are in the book of life delivered AFTER the tribulation
B: Tribulation must happen before the resurrection
C: resurrection and rapture happens the same time.
---francis on 9/16/10

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The rapture are the "catching away" must take place before the Antichrist forces the mark of the beast on people. Otherwise the church(blood bought Christians) could not possibly live through the end times. Because to take the mark of the beast is to do me one's self to hell.

So to answer the question your friend is correct.
---mima on 9/16/10

\\The idea of the "Rapture" is on of the enemy's most subtle tricks. The Church Fathers (which should always be studied hand in hand along with Scripture) also wrote nothing about it--as it is not in the Bible\\

Be careful.

The Rapture has always been part and parcel of the events associated with Christ's Return and the General Resurrection and Last Judgement.

But it is NOT something that happens secretly 7 years (or 1007 years) before the Last Judgement.
---Cluny on 9/16/10

The idea of the "Rapture" is on of the enemy's most subtle tricks. The Church Fathers (which should always be studied hand in hand along with Scripture) also wrote nothing about it--as it is not in the Bible. It is an idea brought on my misinterpretation of scripture (another solid argument against Sola Scriptura). I am often saddened that those who profess to know the Bible are often the one who understand it the least. Hollywood uses the subject as it is a great plot and people have the natural psychological tendency to want to believe they will be "chosen" to proclaim "truth" to others--these are the false teachers Christ warned us about.
---Jerald_Archer on 9/16/10

The word ''Rapture'' is not found anywhere in the Bible. The Bible does teach Christ's second coming. Contrariwise, the Pre-Trib teachers teach Christ's third coming.

People have many fears of the Antichrist, the mark of the beast, the one-world universal government, and et cetera.

Revelation 22:10, ''And he said vnto me, Seale not the wordes of the prophecie of this boke: for the time is at hand.'' 1560 Geneva Bible

Pre-Trib teachers would have you to believe that nothing has happened thus far in Revelation since the Rapture has not occurred in Revelation 4:1 (yet)... consequently meaning that the seven Churches were exhorted 2,000 years ago in Revelation chapter 1-3. And nothing more.

Is that sealing Revelation?
---Kev on 9/15/10

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Things that will happen sft the rapture, such chaos.

People from the Man - made relig - otg's churches will try to kill themselves & they will not die, they will suffer in that agony. Most will in the Great battle where the blood will be up to the bridle of the horse that Jesus will be riding on.

Sorry to say, but there will be those from The Church of The Living God that will be left behind due to disobedience.
---Lawrence on 8/16/10

Reuban before JESUS comes all will be resurrected to life. Therefore those who pierced him and all other eyes will see Him come in the Clouds.

Very simple.
---Samuel on 5/7/08

36 WATCH YE therefore, and PRAY always, that YE may BE accounted WORTHY to ESCAPE ALL these things that shall come TO PASS, and to stand before the Son of man.

I don't care what "WORD"(Rapture,ect.) people Give IT.
"ESCAPE" in ANY language, means GETTING out of Something.
IN this instance, IT'S the Wrath That's Coming!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/6/08

Rhonda you are right. Jesus is only coming back once. Not a half and once. If we are alive at the time we must endure all the tribulations and remain faithful.
---Nicole on 5/6/08

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Rapture or catching away ...or any other term used to portray Christ returning 2 times is false ...Christ only returns to earth once ...there is nothing in scripture to support Christ returning to "collect" true Christians prior to the Day of the Lord ....and then again at the end of the tribulation to collect those who survived

Christ only returns once at the end of the tribulation and it is correctly called a resurrection to eternal life
---Rhonda on 5/6/08

I've given you the truth,
Do with it what you will.
ALL, will know the Truth soon Enough.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/5/08

John also says in Revelation 1:9 that "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation...." If Revelation talks about the end of the world, then John can't be our companion, can he? But he was a companion to the church back then. Revelation 1:7 says "Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him...." This is not talking about the end of the world if those who pierced him shall see him.
---Reuben on 5/5/08

Revalation chapter 1 states these events will "shortly come to pass" and the "time is at hand," therefore we know revelation is not talking about the end of the world. The book is called The Revelation of Jesus Christ, and yet matthew 24:36 says "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only." Here Jesus admits only his father knows the time of his coming, therefore the Revelation of Jesus Christ cannot be about the end of the world
---Reuben on 5/5/08

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God says in the book of Ezek. & Rev.,
That the Life giving water that WILL flow from the Throne of God that will be IN the New Jerusalem that Desends from Heaven After J-Day.
WILL give Life to the Dead Sea & that we will catch fish & the trees that bare the 12 kinds of Fruit that grows along the Banks of that river & the Leaves shall be used to heal the world.
This IS both in the Book of Ezek & Rev.

I've given the vrs, before, If needed I'll give them Again?
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/5/08

Truly with all respect, Are you saying that the Rapture is not at the same time as the 2nd coming of Jesus?
As a Catholic, I am confused when some who speak of a Rapture-Tribulation-2nd Coming of Jesus.
Are you saying He is coming back 1 and 1/2 times to earth?
Honestly, I am not being smart with this question. I am confused of your doctrine on Rapture.
---Nicole on 5/5/08

The church cannot take the mark of the beast. To do so is to forfeit your soul. But after a Pre- tribulation rapture( If that word upsets some, we could say "catching away" all hell will break loose. It will be like the restraint or leash being taken off a mad wild beast. In fact is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Christian who holds the wild beast of natural man.
---mima on 5/5/08

Wake up and look around and smell the credit cards. Do you really believe the Bride is spotless for Jesus's return? Do you think we have to look at our current circumstances and maybe use our God given brains a little more. After all we are only using 10% apparently. Another thought How many Anti-christ actions are taking place under whos governence at the moment. Is everyone everywhere (families despite of geography and cultural richness and variety) not displaying the be-attitudes taught by our Messiah?
---Harry on 8/28/07

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LOLOL! :D Love your humor, Kevin! :D
---Mary on 8/20/07

My question is, after we come back where are we all going to find any food to eat, I would think that we would have to have a good bush knife, rabbit trap, box of matches, soap, mobile phone, and a dehydrated Mc Donalds hamburger and toilet paper all strapped to our body. The unrighteous will have taken everything that we had. What do you think?
---Kevin_Kranz on 8/19/07

We are already living the end times. As Christians we should be prepared for the rapture. After the rapture the anti-Christ will be revealed and there will be sufferring and gnashing of teeth.
---Cris on 8/17/07

The Rapture, in the sense of our gathering to be with Christ, takes place at His second coming and the general Resurrection AFTER the Tribulation.

Those looking for it to happen after the Tribulation will be among the first to fall down and worship Antichrist.
---Jack on 3/23/07

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The best way to get to heaven is not to concern yourself with frivolous conspiracies and debates. These take your time away from what really matter -- feeding the poor, quenching their thirst, clothing them, comforting them, looking after them when they are sick, and visit them in prisons. Do all of this in the glory of God. Genuine love is serving others without asking for anything in return. Pray to God to give you the ability and the resources to accomplish His will.
---Steve on 7/17/06

The best way to get to heaven is not to concern yourself with frivolous conspiracies and debates. These take your time away from what really matter -- feeding the poor, quenching their thirst, clothing them, comforting them, looking after them when they are sick, and visit them in prisons. Do all of this in the glory of God. Genuine love is serving others without asking for anything in return. Pray to God to give you the ability and the resources to accomplish His will.
---Steve on 7/17/06


Prove to me from scripture that there will be 7 years of tribulation after what people are calling the secret rapture.

And dont use Daniel 9. The last 7 years of the prophecy of Daniel 9 already happened. The last week of the 490 year prophecy started in 27ad with the annointing or baptism of Jesus. In the middle of the week Jesus was crudified 31ad. The week ended in 34 ad when the gospel went to the whole world.
---eric on 6/18/06

The book left behind and other books that talk about the rapture are purely fiction.

Its not biblical. Study it out more. I encourage you. Im not trying to stir up emotions, I am sorry if I have offended anyone.
When I was becoming a christian I heard so much about this secret rapture. And I alomst accepted it but I found many holes in that theory. Remember its only a theory like evolution. I have studied this topic many times and it gets more clear each time. There will be no secret rapture.
---eric on 6/16/06

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Indeed, after the rapture, there will be 7 years of the anti-christ rule called "The Great Tribulation". (Read Elder's comments on 5/11) The first 3 & 1/2 years will involve the anti-Christ pretending to create world peace, and the remaining 3&1/2 years will be horrible because Satan would rule the government completely which he cannot do now.
---Okebaram on 5/19/06

I agree with your friend. If a person is one of God's then they won't see what will happen. this is a good thing, because I don't want to be here when it all goes down.
---Rebecca_D on 5/19/06

Johns advice against speculation (which much of this topic is) is well founded.

I believe in the imminent return of the Lord (could happen any minute) Matthew 25:13, "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

I live as if he is not coming back for 1000 years. 1 John 3:2-3, "... And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."
---Bruce5656 on 5/11/06

All of the examples given here may very well give insight to the Great Tribulation but they are not examples of the Great Tribulation.
The Bible says the Great Tribulation will be a time as never seen before.
Tribulation comes to all of God's Saints. Some are even murdered for the Faith. That is not the Great Tribulation though.
---Elder on 5/11/06

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Unlike some here, I reserve the right to be wrong, especially in eschatology.

I do not need extensive charts or well-meaning-but-inexact THEORIES to tell me Jesus is returning soon. He said he will, and that is sufficient.

I was on live TV with a "number spinner" once. He and his unlearned ilk led too many astray, and they do not stop when their so-called knowledge is wrong. They create new numbers.
---John_T on 5/11/06

i believe in pre-trib.of the rapture because
the church is not mentioned after the tribulation is described in the bible. we are living in the end times not the tribulation.
---mike on 5/11/06

There is no (THE)in the revelation great tribulation it only says the church came out of great tribulation, in tribulation all christians enter the kingdom. Read the history and marterdom of the church before us, a much more holy and righteous church than we. If the Apostles and church were not raptured out of their tribulation or any after them, who could even think that such would be the case for the unthankful church of today who pay God for blessings rather than put faith in the cross of Christ.
---Exzucuh on 5/11/06

To those who deny a pre-trib rapture, consider this. All the evil that will occur in the Great Tribulation can only happen if the Holy Spirit removes Himself from direct influence on this earth. For this to happen and the church to still be here would mean that God has denied His promises and abandoned us, as the Spirit dwells in the true believers. Yes, there will be TERRIBLE things happening at that time.
---tommy3007 on 5/11/06

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I see a mid trib or post trib "rapture" as being more likely because IMO the 10 Egypian Plagues as a type (rehersal) of the Great Tribulation.

None of the Hebrews had the plagues, only "non-believers". That view also satisfies the Scripture saying Believers will also escape judgment.

That is my two cents, and I will not go further; the end times are speculative, and known only by God the Father. Jesus could come before you get to the period at the end of this post.
---John_T on 5/9/06

Renea we will have to go through these times, but take courage not one hair on the head of us who know and embrace the truth, and share this truth with others, fall to the ground (1 Sam. 15:45), (luke 21:18). For in our patience we provide for our souls verse 19. Watch and pray always, that you may be counted worthy to escape (shun the origin of the cares of this life, and the deceiver) and all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man (Lk 21:35).
---josef on 5/9/06

Recall how Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego went through the tribulation under the AntiGod ruler, Nebuchadnezzaar, but the fire did not harm them. The AntiChrist and the ungodly will persecute the Christians, but God avenges. Recall the 10 plagues which fell upon the Egyptians, but not the Israelites; how Noah and his family were spared; Lot and his family; and Daniel in the lion's den. We overcome and aren't hurt in the 2nd death. Please read Matthew 24:4-44; Revelation 2:10,11; 3:20-22; 12:11; 14:9-12.
---Eloy on 5/9/06

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