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Can We Make Graven Images

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." -Exodus 20:4,5. Does any denomination practice and encouraged this?

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 ---mima on 6/2/06
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Yes, all. >>>Pride makes a god of self, Coveteousness makes a god of money, Sensuality makes a god of the belly. Whatever is esteemed or loved, feared or served, delighted in or depended on, more that God, that, [whatever it is] we do in effect make a god of.>>[1] That we cannot have any other God but He will certainly know it. [2] That it is A sin that dares Him to His FACE, which He cannot, which He will not, overlook!
---catherine on 4/21/08

Islam follows this to an extreme. Blowing up 1000 year old statues because they were images. You will find only geometric patterns in Islamic buildings to completely avoid images.
---dan on 4/21/08

not mine. I don't know what other demoninations do except Catholic because I was raised a Catholic. Now I am non-demonination. It's not even mentioned at my church because it's a given if God said NOT to do it, we don't do it.
---Donna9759 on 4/1/08

There is only one religious group that I know of that follow that rule - Amish. They even feel that a photograph is a graven image and refuse to be knowingly photographed. Also, no jewelry or even zippers. I do not think any of you would like to live without electric or indoor plumbing however. They really take everything literal, hopefully they are not the only ones that have it right.
---yoshin on 8/18/07

This type of Worship is a form of Paganism practice by the ungodly and the heathen.

Psalm 135:15:18

The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, *the work of human hands.
They have mouths, but they cannot speak, *
eyes have they, but they cannot see.
They have ears, but they cannot hear, *
neither is there any breath in their mouth.
Those who make them are like them, *
and so are all who put their trust in them.
---Marcia on 8/18/07

"And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels], of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end, of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another, toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:1820).
---Hans_A. on 8/18/07

"On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim." (Ezekiel 41:1718)
---Hans_A. on 8/18/07

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived." (Numbers 21:8-9)
---Hans_A. on 8/18/07

Jack, are you saying that when people say the Pledge of Allegence to the flag that they are worshipping the flag? Thats funny.
---sue on 8/18/07

If you take a passage out of context you can say or do anything you like.

For those of us who are familiar with the whole Bible, we know that God was speaking against idolatry, not religious art. Otherwise God would be a hypocrite for requiring angels to adorn the Ark of the Covenant, and the snake upon a pole. The Ark of the Covenant was not treated with any less respect than what a Catholic gives to any statue. And the Jews did not worship the Ark any more than a Catholic worships any statue.
---lorra8574 on 8/18/07

When Catholics kneel it is before God, because God is present when we pray. Most of the time, Protestants see statues in Catholic Churhes - every Catholic Church belongs solely to God, it is His house that we built for Him. The statues adorn it because they represent His children who were faithful followers and are role models for all Christians.

We do pray to the saints, represented by the statues, but NEVER TO the statues. And rarely to the saint independant of God.
---lorra8574 on 8/18/07

What difference does it make. many christians say the commandments are now null and void. christians say all you have to do is believe in Jesus and then do anything you want in life that is evil. It doesn't matter if you worship allah, buddha, the sun, moon or stars, you still go to heaven. millions of people worship the cross and wear it around their neck, even though it is strictly forbidden, glorifying his death. Jesus was resurrected and lives, but no one cares.
---Lori on 8/18/07

Yes, the Catholic church does!
Mind you, in the catechism, they leave out the 2nd commandment (if you don't believe me, go check). They relegate to part of the first commandment, last on the list, as if no importance.
---mike8384 on 8/18/07

Lee1, we did TOO say prayers to pieces of cloth in the Baptist Church I was raised in during Vacation Bible School.

They were brought with great solemnity into the Church, worshiped on command: "Attention! Salute! Pledge!" and then we said the pray to them, which in both cases began with "I pledge allegiance..."

If Catholics worship statues, Baptists say prayers to pieces of cloth.
---Jack on 6/16/06

Jack, I have been to Baptist churches and not one does what you say they do. If you say Baptist you seem to be saying all Baptist. Why don't you just state a church you went to? Your ignorance of facts can confuse some that are looking for a Church. If you were against what they were doing why did you attend in the first place? There is many churches that teach none essentials of the Christian faith and we should not attend any of them. Unless you want to believe something else.
---lee_1 on 6/8/06

Moderator--to accuse Roman Catholics of violating the opening commandments, and then to excuse prayers to pieces of cloth is EXACTLY what the Bible calls "diverse weights and measures"--a double standard, as we would say today--and is an ABOMINATION/TOEVAH to God (Proverbs 20:10). Besides, I don't know anyone who worships statues with LATREIA belonging to God alone. Do you?

Moderator - Catholics do have shrines of Mary throughout the world - this is a statement of fact. It is a statement of fact Southern Baptists don't have prayer cloths. To say otherwise, for both of these statements is either igorance or trying to deceive people.
---Jack on 6/7/06

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Lee, it was a Southern Baptist church I went to. The pieces of cloth were worshipped with strict gestures. Both prayers began, "I pledge allegiance..." This takes place in every Southern Baptist VBS. If Catholics worship statues (which they don't), then Baptists say prayers to pieces of cloth.
You can't deny one and affirm the other.

Moderator - Sure he can. Southern Baptists don't do what you mention which is called being a false witness.
---Jack on 6/7/06

2. I sure don't know which church you went to that worship a cloth. I have never heard of it before. You have to join a good teaching church. If you want to so bad you will find one. If you don't want to, then of course you will remain the same. Always complaining about the others churches. I find many that are bad and I just move on. The Spirit should guide you.
---lee_1 on 6/6/06

Jack, continue to read Scripture and stay away from traditions. Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Now you might not want to be free, thats another matter altogether. You might want to be a slave to a church, that is your choice. Tradition or Scripture. its your choice not mine. I have made my choice and I take Scripture over tradition anytime.
---lee_1 on 6/6/06

Lee1, when I went to Vacation Bible School as a Baptist (before I got saved) we said prayers to pieces of cloth that were worshipped with strict regimented and stylized gestures.

Oddly enough, both prayers began with the same words, "I pledge allegiance..."

If Catholics worship statues, then Baptists say prayers to pieces of cloth.

It's either both or none.
---Jack on 6/5/06

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I AM an ORthodox Christian, and have been so for over 30 years.

Orthodox Christians are noted for their devotion to the Holy Icons as one way of proclaiming the truth of the Gospel.

Common garden variety Protestants, or even Evangelicals, are another matter.
---Jack on 6/5/06

Jack, Catholics are use to having been taught by the church so Bible questions and answers is what seperates both the Othordox Christian and the Catholic. You, Ruben, Emcee and others question Scripture all the time because you are not use to reading it for yourselves. Once you began to read it, you will see what God really said. Then you have a choice, believe Scripture are believe in your church. No one will blame you for what you do, it is up to you.
---lee_1 on 6/4/06

2. but don't confuse it with Grace, grace is not the same as free will. Read the bible and believe.
---lee_1 on 6/4/06

Jack, just do what you like, make all kinds of images and idols. You have free will. That is what free will, will do. Do what you want.
---lee_1 on 6/4/06

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Couple of thoughts.
1/ Ruben, if you honour and pray to your family photographs, then you are in breach of the 2nd commandment.
2/ True, the Decalog is OT, and hence we can ignore it and live under grace.
---mike8384 on 6/4/06

According to the Bible, not only can we make graven images, but we SHOULD make them.

God commanded Moses to make images of the cherubim in Exodus 25.

If there was this permission--yea, precept--in the old law, then is there not MORE grace now?
---Jack on 6/3/06

The division of the 10 commandments is clear, and is not based on chapter and verse. The commanment not to pray to images is clearly a separate onem at least in my Bible, to the commandment to worship God alone,
---mike8384 on 6/3/06

Mabe another reason Echad/God told Abram to leave his people. Remember Aaron's calf? The brazen serpent made by Moses at Echad/God's instructions that King Hezekiah destroyed (Nehustan) [Num.21:5-9, II Ki.18:1(4)7]?

Some rightly believe tv [can be] a one eyed devil used wrongly.

Paragraph's? As the sabbath was made for man & not vv. paragraphs serve the same purpose [Neh.8:1(8)10], no problem!
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 6/3/06

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I have a small cross my Mom gave me when I was 14, a cross, not a crucifix. I used to wear it more than I do now. When I wore it, it was just a reminder of what Christ had done for me. I NEVER worshipped it!
---NVBarbara on 6/2/06

mi ma
Would being in a church structure or worring about money or being concerned about how you are doing at your job would be a graven image. hmm lets take it to another reality, fear! and not doing what you have commanded to by Jesus is a graven image be cause you are worshipping self so is anything you can think of that may take the place of GOD wow!.I thank GOD for our saviors blood sacrafice and the cleansing power of HIS blood that makes all our sins white as snow. great question
---willow on 6/2/06

Question for Mike 8384:

Since the Bible was NOT written with chapter and verse divisions in the original (these were added after the invention of the printing press), how do you tell where one commandment ends and the next one begins.

If Catholics worship graven images, then when I went to VBS we said prayers to pieces of cloth.
---Jack on 6/2/06

I've got angel figurines all over my house (in heaven above) and a few figurines of fishes and dolphins here and there (water under the earth)- don't have anything in my house that would look like anything that came from UNDER the earth....BUT I DON'T BOW DOWN TO ANY OF THEM. I think THAT was his point
---T.S. on 6/2/06

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Yes crosses can be considered an idol. There are no crosses or figures in my house. there is the bible,Gods holy word, but I do not wear crosses because by reading his word I know what he did for me.I do not need to look at one to be remined. My congregation does not have any crosses in the building either.
---Candice on 6/2/06

When I went to Vacation Bible School, we had to say prayers to pieces of cloth.
---Jack on 6/2/06

Mima How about pictures on the wall of my family members or in my wallet?
---ruben on 6/2/06

I used to wear, back in 1983 when I was newly saved, a head of Christ in Gold around my neck. When I went to a deliverance service, they told me to take it off and I immediately did. Here's the point. My friend Barb wouldn't take hers off, they wouldn't minister to her. Because I was so willing to take mine off, they realized it wasn't an idol in my heart. So isn't it okay to wear if it's NOT an idol in your heart?
---Donna9759 on 6/2/06

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Yes!! The crosses people wear around their necks are graven images. I happen to know a pastor who wears a small wooden cross around his neck and of course that too qualifies an graven image.
---mima on 6/2/06

mi ma, what about the crosses we wear around our necks? Are they graven images?
---Donna9759 on 6/2/06

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