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Can You Prove The Pre-Rapture

How can we be sure of a rapture of the church before Jesus comes with the host of Heaven? Anyone care to prove it?

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 ---martyr on 6/13/06
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Why is it that many christians are so willing to use implicity and discard explicity?

Scripture after scripture explicitly describes the second coming of our Lord as being after the tribulation. There is no scripture that proves a rapture pre-trib....

God is not a God of confusion....He does not imply anything, just the opposite!

Please people, stop listening to others and read it for yourselves!
---Marie on 11/15/07

Who are they that do not take the mark of the beast? Who are the ones who flee the abomination of desolation? Who are the ones who are given over to be imprisoned? Which ones are the ones that turn on their own relatives in fear of the anti-christ? Which ones should pray that their flight should not be in the winter or that they should not be pregnant or nursing? Are those the ones that will be raptured? Are they the ones who are not saved? Who are these people who Jesus is speaking to?
---jody on 11/3/07

While reading this phrase,"that those who choose to live sinful now will have a Second chance after the "pre-trib rapture" until Christ "really" comes." I was reminded of Genesis 4:6-7, 6 "And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"
7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?--
question, Did God offered Cain, a second chance??? You decide
---Mima on 11/2/07

I am not convinced that there will be such a thing as a rapture. I am wondering if it is a man made idea taken out of contexed as a wishful thinking type of thing. That perhaps someone read that scripture and twisted it a little due to fear of persecution. I do not see evidence from anything Jesus taught. Just can't see anything clear on the matter. I truly hope that I am wrong and continue to search scripture to prove myself wrong but do not find any.:)
---jody on 11/1/07

Anytime False doctrine is taught and believed by millions, all would be well served to search for motive. Since the basis for this belief requires believing Church will be gone before anti-christ revealed, 'All' who believe this doctrine of devils will never recognize the anti-christ when he is revealed.They will be deceived along with the 'world'. Why? For chosing to believe a LIE.
---jack8937 on 11/1/07

This is a frivolous debate. But, let's reason this out.

First, There are only two resurrections, not three. One when Jesus appears and the other at t he end of Christs thousand year rein where the rest of the dead is resurrected and judged from the Book of Life. If people are raptured at the beginning, judgement has been pronounced, because the Christians were taken and the evil people left on Earth. But it is written that both the tares and the wheat will be harvested at the same time.
---Steveng on 11/1/07

Second, there is nothing new under the sun. No one in history was ever raptured because of tribulation. Jesus himself said no one has ascended into heaven. Neither Moses or Elijah will be the witnesses. God even says that he buried Moses in a valley. I suggest reading a phrase dictionary telling the many ways to say that a person kicked the bucket, bit the dust, he flew on the wings of the wind to the happy hunting ground, etc.
---Steveng on 11/1/07

Third, Every time there was a catastrophe, Godly men and women were not raptured, but were protected by God while still on earth. Noah and his family, David and his friends, the Israelites during the plagues, etc. The Christians during the tribulation period will be protected the same way by the mark of God. All humanity is in the same boat and will experience the same thing, but Christians are protected.
---Steveng on 11/1/07

Fourth, There is only One Judgement Day, not two. If people are raptured at the beginning, judgement has been pronounced, because the Christians were taken and the evil people left on Earth. But it is written that both the tares and the wheat will be harvested at the same time.
---Steveng on 11/1/07

Fifth, Why have a tribulation? If the Christians were taken up and the evil left on earth? Many Christians believe that they would rise before the tribulation to escape Gods wrath. But why would the dead be taken? Can the dead can't feel the wrath of God on Earth if theyre dead?
---Steveng on 11/1/07

Sixth, how can you Christians be so vain to think you are more special than the Christians and Godly people who died in all of history. Don't be afraid about what is about to happen during these end times for God promised to protect you from his wrath. Persecution, on the other hand, is what we will face. Are you willing to die for Jesus like all the other Godly people and Christians in the past? Now is the time to strengthen your relationship with God.
---Steveng on 11/1/07

Seventh, the verses that most Christians believe that pertain to the rapture can be easily plugged into the beginning, the middle or the end of the so-called tribulation period. Christians will be going through the tribulation much like all the other people who gone through tribulation in the past like the Israelites in Egypt during the plagues, Noah and his family, and all the remnants. Dont worry though if your faith in God is strong, He will protect you.
---Steveng on 11/1/07

Last, but not least, we will be warned about it before it happens.

So, forget about this rapture thing, about the age of the universe, about knowing how the Earth began, or when it will end, about dinosaurs, about "Who's on first, What's on second and I-don't-knows on third." Teach the Gospel that Jesus taught - the Gospel of the soon to come Kingdom of God and how to get there. Go out into the world and spread the Gospel. For the harvest is plenty, but the workers are few.
---Steveng on 11/1/07

Yes, Lisa, BUT...

If we teach the Pre-trib rapture, we are giving a false hope (as well as false doctrine which Scripture warns against), that those who choose to live sinful now will have a Second chance after the "pre-trib rapture" until Christ "really" comes.
---Adam on 11/1/07

I'll Just trust in Jesus, and leave the details up to Him. When He comes back we will know what will happen. Then every knee will bow to Him. And we won't have to worry, cause it will be over.
The End.
---Lisa on 10/20/07

There is no backing for the Pre-Trib Rapture. The Pre-Trib view is established by adding more to scripture than what it really says. Every verse used for the Pre-Trib view, can be used against it.
---Adam on 10/10/07

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In Rev.7:9 before the 7 seals are finished opening and before any of the 7 trumpets have sounded and before any vials are opened we already see the inumerable great multitude from every tongue and nation that no man could number standing before the throne in white robes washed in the blood of the lamb. I can't say exactly how long they have been there but they sure didn't go through the great tribulation.
---john on 9/17/07

Herb, it seems to me that were going to meet God on his decent, doesnt that mean that the tribulation has already happened and were meeting him on his way down, b/c wrath of God is finished???
---mark on 3/19/07

First the rapture happens. 1Thes.4:17. Then the 7 yr tribulation. Then Christ returns and the wicked are removed and Christ set up his kingdom on earth. If the rapture does not happen before that then who are the armies in Rev 19:14? They are not angels.
---Rev_Herb on 3/19/07

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord
---Rev_Herb on 3/19/07

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Jesus said even He does not know the day or hour. Why then do we profess to know when? Got it down to the week then do we??? Maybe He said this so we wouldn't argue over the timing? Linda speaks wisdom. What if the great apostasy results from "christians" who were misled on this issue?
---Joshua on 3/19/07

Martyr, I shall await with interest, myself.

For 1830 years, the Bible was understood to teach a POST-tribulation gathering when Jesus returns to earth.

The same passages that have been used to "prove" a pre-trib rapture were believed to be POST-trib, as a study of Christian writings through the ages will show.

Amillennial, too, for that matter.
---Jack on 3/18/07

Isaac Watts wrote:
"Shall I be carried to the clouds on flow'ry beds of ease/while others fought to win the prize and sail through bloody seas?"

How many soiled American Christians will say, "You'd better believe it!"
---Jack on 6/15/06

Jesus prayed, "I pray that you do not take them from this world, but keep them safe from the Evil One."

Today's rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus. Take us out of this world."
---Jack on 6/15/06

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Thank you Rev. Herb for a correct answer. We have been studying the book of revelation and I have sure learned a lot. I won't go thru tribulation here on earth. What we go thru on earth is NOT the judgements of revelation.
---shira on 6/15/06

It can not be proven because it is not biblical.
---joseph on 6/15/06

I'm with the last post, the Bible is very clear about us meeting in the sky "at" the last trumpet. Alot of bad stuff happens before. I am actually afraid that alot of people will turn from their faith when Jesus doesn't come back "early" like many are hoping for. Remember Noah was under God's protection in the Ark but he still had to ride those waves during the storm.
---Linda on 6/14/06

We will go through the Tribulation according to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 & the Last Trumpet Judgment.
---Don_Stayton on 6/14/06

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Rev Herb--Wrong.

Eric--Right on! :-)
---Jack on 6/14/06

I agree with Rickey answer. As to timing I do not rule out Rev. Herb answer.
---mima on 6/14/06

Where did you get the idea they didn't go through the tribulation?

This SAME passage is frequently linked with Rev 20:9 ff. The two groups are identified as the same, and it's clear that they came THROUGH the Tribulation. The Bible says so.
---Jack on 6/14/06

Martyr, take a hard look and do a study on the parable of the 10 virgins. Then maybe you will see the light.
---Fred_S. on 6/14/06

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1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
---madison on 6/14/06

In Revelation 1-6 it implies the church and the rapture before the tribulation period. In Jeremiah 30, Jacob's Trouble is mentioned referring to the 7-yr. trib. period. During that period the church will be at the judgement seat of Christ.(2Corinthians 5:10)
---Rickey on 6/14/06

Read Revelation 16:15 Jesus says "behold I come as a theif."

Chapter 16 talks about the 7 last plagues that many believe will happen after Christ comes "as a thief" in the secret rapture. But as the chapter reads, the plagues are falling and in the middle of the plagues Jesus says behold I come as a thief. Jesus has not come yet. When Jesus says I come as a thief He means that He is coming unexpectadly. Revelation 3:3 proves it.
---eric on 6/13/06

the truth is that there will be no secret rapture. Rev 1:7 Every eye will see Him. Matt 24:37 as the days of Noah so also shall be the coming of the Son of man."

Noah and his family were preserved "through" the flood or tribulation. it will be the same way in the end time. The church will go through the tribulation and then Jesus will come in all His glory. There is no secret rapture, then a 7 year trib then Christ comes in His glory.
---eric on 6/13/06

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Rev. chapter 4 the rapture happens when John told to come up here. After that the church is never mentioned again in the book of Rev. So this happens before judgement starts on the earth.
---Rev_Herb on 6/13/06

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