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Should There Be Women Pastors

Should there be women pastors?

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 ---Alan on 6/18/06
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How were women able to found churches if they were not able to preach and proclaim the word of God. Just as the bible made cultural allowances for slavery it made allowances for men's superiority complexes too. If you want to read bias into the scriptures the heart speaks. If you want women to have freedom in Christ - that is also in the word.
---Andrea on 8/8/07

Mike, Throughout the Bible women are in leadership roles. The term you used as "weaker vessels" is out of context. If you would have said physically not as strong I could swallow your comment. As far as women Pastors...Women have had to step up to the call because so many men are running from it. Any church you attend in America you will find MORE women attending than men. By the way your comment implys women are not as smart as men. Not true~!
---Saved_One on 8/7/07

Why not? There are and all always will be. I sometimes, find them more compassionate and caring than men preachers. Not to compare. God can use a female as well as a male to further His Kingdom.
---Robyn on 8/7/07

another name for "weaker vessel" could be "more easily deceived".
---mike on 8/7/07

If you can find one scripture that as much has all or some of the words that you have used I challange you to come forwards with them Study to show yourself approved. Re-writting the Bible is accursed. which Gospel(version) did you find that opinion in?
---Carla5754 on 1/1/07

The Bible says nothing against women pastors. The scipture that talks about women being silent, is refuring to the time they lived in. Only men were allowed up front in church, women had to be in back. They yelled at their husbands to tell them what the pastor was saying, and thus disrupted service.
---Leslie on 12/31/06

Having said that the word was translated into english so every man woman and child could understand the word. Paul correctly advised this and knew that this would be an example from generation to generation. If we are to believe that this is the inspired word of God then we have to accept his teaching and not try to devise modern day concepts into the compete word, polarising the text into soceties preference to women preachers. The whole bible backs up Pauls teaching on men being the Head of women.
---Carla5754 on 7/25/06

Bottom line when we read scripture we must ask 1. why the writer wrote the text... 2.What is the context, cultural issues, and 3. to whom was he writing? After this we must make sure that scripture is divided and interpreted line upon line, precept upon precept... If something does not agree with other parts of scripture, we must better understand the text. In essence, if it doesn't agree with the whole counsel of God, then we must not use the text to validate our a priori beliefs.
---mia on 6/28/06

I have sensed after reading these comments that women are viewed in a negative light. Children of God.. Be not decieved by the enemy who comes to bring discord! I have heard people say that women were subject to their husbands before the fall, but I ask you to go and reread your Bible. The differences and gender wars come after the Fall... and thus God had to give the remedy, just like the Law, until He fulfilled His promise.
---mia on 6/28/06

To those that point to 1 Timothy and Titus to express that because the writer says " the husband of one wife..." and not the reverse to express his point, I submit the following: Women were not in the position culturally to engage in polygamous relationships. Apostles were writing to the churchs and responding to issues that were relevant to actual issues in the Church. We must view scripture in light of this to rightly divide the Word.
---mia on 6/28/06

But because of our contextual, cultural perspective, we cannot see that. Bottom line is that there is neither Jew nor Greek, male or female. Jesus cuts through oppression, bondage, and frees up those who know Him to serve him and others. We should not covet these positions as if they are special, nor exclude people based on human criterion - specifically one's gender. Have we the Lord Jesus Christ with respect to persons?
---mia on 6/28/06

Ultimately these roles are the leadership (servants)given to the church. MOst servants, in the context that we use servants in our Western culture, are in fact women. Women serve their husbands, their children, and others. Not a problem. When we look at the term leadership, in the context that we use leader, we look at it as top-down authority.
---mia on 6/28/06

Now I realize that it is sometimes hard to extract yourself from culture because our thoughts are not God's thought. We have finite minds and we think contextually. But consider that titles of pastor, teacher, evangelist, have evolved into something entirely different in our Western society. We tend to place a special emphasis on these roles as if to hold them is to have achieved some sort of greater spiritual state. But let us take a moment to examine these apart from our cultural context...
---mia on 6/28/06

Jesus led 12 apostles who were all Jews, do we now say that only Jews can be the leaders of the church? Remember the Mary's , they were the first to proclaim to the men (the disciples) that the Lord had risen from the dead.
---mia on 6/28/06

Darlene: Sounds like a great program. I got my MSW part time, while working full time. I cannot afford to quit my job, as I have student loans to pay off and rent to pay. I will have to forego further education for now. Most doctoral programs require full time study. I am a single woman. My ex was not supportive of graduate school for me when we were together.
---Madison1101 on 6/24/06

Madison, Baylor University, 1 hour from me,they offered a PSYD ,3 years of Graduate level studies and a 1 year intern program, in which you would actually be working at a Clinic or hospital,instead of writing a Dissertation. It made a lot more sense to me to be making money too, instead of paying out more money and going another year to college, besides all the research. Perhaps that would be a good way for you too. I was already trained at MHMR as volunteer marriage counselor before got BA Degree.
---Darlene_1 on 6/24/06

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Darlene: Were you studying for a PhD in psychology? I want to do that in the worst way, but because of finances, I had to settle for an MSW in clinical social work. Having passed the clinical exam for my state, I need to get the hours now for the LCSW behind my name.

People are hurting from so many evils in our society, and the wounds from childhood run deep. My ministry is to work with them, the severely mentally ill, eating disorders and addictions.
---Madison1101 on 6/24/06

Madison,I know,there are too few Christian Counselors. That's a good reason to check a counselors background before seeing them. The Psychiatrist I mentioned wasn't a Christian Counselor, but he was a Christian. When people don't understand about counseling they are ready to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Psychology was my field but I needed 3 more years education,one internship, when my first grandchild came along, I decided it was more important to me to be a grandmother.
---Darlene_1 on 6/24/06

Darlene: I just hate to see people throw out an entire science because of lies.

I will add, there are often no licensed Christian therapists, and if that is the case, the person can see a secular therapist but be sure to be in a discipleship relationship. A good secular therapist will not encourage a person to go against their personal beliefs in God. That is what happened to me. There were no licensed therapists covered by my insurance. My therapist is prayed for every time I go.
---Madison1101 on 6/24/06

Madison,people who become"gun shy" at the false teachings begin looking for something false everywhere. Yes if counselors set Psychology up as the "be all to end all" thats wrong,but when counseling couples with Bible truth, which is possible without quoting scripture, it does help people understand. That's why Christians should go to a Christian Counselor. People shouldn't confuse plain counseling with a Psychology Gospel Movement, they're two different things.
---Darlene_1 on 6/24/06

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I don't believe that God uses all psychologists and I think it is dangerous to advocate he does. I attended a psychology class where a friend of mine let the tutor mess up her mind by delving in territory where only God can handle when you are saved. She became as weird as the tutor and still looking for deliverance.
---Carla5754 on 6/24/06

Helen: You are assuming I am saying that people should use psychology to help themselves. That is not what I am saying. In my recovery, a psychologist helped me to find out what in my heart and mind needed healing. The Lord did the healing. The psychologist helped reveal the wounds that were buried deep within. I believe the Lord uses therapists in the field of psychology to help His children learn where the hurts are, and the Lord does the healing.
---Madison1101 on 6/24/06

Rebecca S is right that people want an easy fix. The past 3 years I've been through spiritually very tough and extremely testing times. It would have sometimes been far easier to just give in and turn to man whom I can see. I refused no matter how hard the going.... Jesus died on the Cross for me and if He doesn't heal me down here then I will be healed in heaven because it is an everlasting covenant that I have with him. Faith in God at times can be really tough but that is what He requires.
---Helen_5378 on 6/24/06

Nancy... I suppose you may literally believe at least some parts of the Bible? Good!

I mean you no harm; but, you set yourself up for my question. Everything you say goes against the grain of Scripture. I had to ask because, believe it or not, I'm concerned for your soul. It's your most valuable possession & you're in danger of loosing it forever unless you repent of your sins & become born again.

I pray salvation in Jesus Christ is also a part of the Bible you'll come to believe.
---Leon on 6/24/06

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Jack - If God used Psychology then He would have had no need to send His Son Jesus to die on the Cross. Psychology is man-made, not God-made, and false teachers take it and twist and distort God's Word to suit Psychology. Psychology points man to man and self-help.... Jesus says "Come to Me all you who are weary and heavy laden".
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

The worldly seek answers from the world. Psychology leaves God out! God has given us all we need through Christ.
2 Peter 1:2-3 says, "Grace and PEACE be multiplied to you in the KNOWLEDGE of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us EVERYTHING pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence." People want and easy fix and an easy believism. If that doesn't work, take a pill.
---Rebecca_S on 6/23/06

John, you say "you always take the written Word literally, you can make a lie out of it." If you read something literally then you are avoiding exaggeration, metaphor, or embellishment. If it is not literal, then that means you have liberty to conceptualize the reading, like realism verses abstract artwork. So it would not be possible to read a literal lie in the Bible unless the writings were the lie because you would be reading it upholding the exact word for word meaning.
---tofurabby on 6/23/06

There is nothing wrong with being a psychologist but it cannot be compared to the counseling of Jesus because his is not the psyche realm or soul realm but by the Holy Spirit that reveals or councils in Spiritual Knowledge the carnal realm is the enemy of the Spiritual. A person with Spiritual knowledge has no need for a psychologist because the Holy Spirit leads them into all truth. Only carnal people can be helped by a psychologist.
---exzucuh on 6/23/06

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Madison 1101 - Madison I am not the only one here who knows that the Psychology Gospel is a false teaching - ask the Moderators and take a look at the new E-cards. I have known about it for a long time. IF MAN CAN HEAL YOU, THEN JESUS DIED IN VAIN.
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

2/... 2 Timothy 4:3,4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables". Psychology is a FABLE.
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

Madison 1101 - Psychology is man-made ok, I am sure you would agree with me on that? Anything that is man-made that "preachers" take and use to suit the Bible is gross error. Colossians 2:8 says "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and NOT ACCORDING TO CHRIST". Psychology is very clearly "philosophy and empty deceit". ... continued
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

Inasmuch as "psychology" comes from Greek words meaning "science of the soul," can Helen explain just WHY God doesn't use Psychology, and why she knows so much about what God does and does not choose to use?
---Jack on 6/23/06

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God doesn't play mind games. That is the specialty of satan. He is the master of trickery. The first sin committed on was by listening to his sly tongue making the woman doubt what God really said. The bible is plain, God does not work that way. He gave us sense enough to see the truth ourselves. If you are saved, then for heaven sake grow up! Look for someone not as blessed and do them good. That is all the 'psychological' help you will need and you will realize everything is not about YOU. sheesh
---Rebecca_S on 6/23/06

God works in people to guide them to His truth for their lives. God can work through a person who is in counseling to quicken something to them that they need to work on or change. I won't say He works through Psychology, but I will say He works through situations to enlighten His people. I once heard a Psychiatrist say of patients, they should get in church because they need something for the healing,acknowledging it takes God. Psychology isn't a false God,just a tool helping the healing, like medicine.
---Darlene_1 on 6/23/06

Nancy - You said that "psychology is not a gospel, false or true". What I am referring to is the false Psychology Gospel which is being preached and taught within Christianity today. It uses Psychology to twist and distort God's Word. No-where in God's Word will you find that God says to "help yourselves".
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

There is always going to be argument over whether women should or should not be in various areas of ministry. I believe that God can use anybody for the furtherance of His kingdom and that all of the Spiritual Gifts are distributed regardless of gender.

Satan must be jumping for joy over this blog.
---Madison1101 on 6/23/06

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Helen: I have not been led astray. I have been ministered to by the Great Physician. For it says in Isaiah that Christ is the Counselor. If He is the Counselor, then I believe He must use psychology, because that is what Counselors use, at least in my profession.
---Madison1101 on 6/23/06

Helen: I guess Romans 8:28 is wrong then?

" 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[a] who[b] have been called according to his purpose."

My version does not say, "except psychology."

Please give me the verse that supports your thesis that it is false doctrine.
---Madison1101 on 6/23/06

Madison 1101 - You said that God works through psychology. My dear sister you have been lead astray by false doctrine... you need to repent and come back to the Cross of Christ. God only ever works through His Son Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross -- period. Bless you.
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

Hi Eloy,
You said that the devil persuaded the 'weaker sex' to sin, who persuaded Adam to sin? Please be patient with me, I am just learning.
thank you very much and God bless you
---SUE on 6/23/06

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Helen: Please show me the verse that says "Psychology is a false god?"

I just began a career in the mental health field as a therapist in a psychiatric hospital. It never occurred to me, in all my years of studying psychology, that it was a false god. My pastor never discouraged me from my studies, in fact he encouraged me. If I am ignorant of scripture, I need to be enlightened. Please show me the verses.
---Madison1101 on 6/23/06

The one who stands up and teaches doctrine is not in a position of authority?
---mike on 6/23/06

Acts 10:45-47 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Peter based his decision to baptise them on an experience.
---exzucuh on 6/23/06

We need to focus on our own 'beam' rather than judge other's spiritual relationship with God. The correction within ourselves will be the greatest advocate, for behavior speaks louder than self-righteous words.

Who is my God? The Creator of this beautiful planet, my father and my mother for I am a Child of God.
---Nancy on 6/23/06

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Leon:Matthew 7/1-5:"Judge not,that ye be not judged.For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:it shall be measured to you again. why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye,but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?Or how wilt thou say to thy brother,Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold,a beam is in thine own eye?Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."
---Nancy on 6/23/06

Romans 13:3-4 For rulers are not a terror For he is the (minister) of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the (minister) of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
(minister)DiakonoV diakonos dee-ak'-on-os probably from an obsolete diako specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon or deaconess):--deacon, minister, servant.this says Pastors have authority
---exzucuh on 6/23/06

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
As long as people serve the law they are in bondage to sin it strengthens sin But under the law of Grace the power of sin is broken.The law condemns you to death,sickness,poverty,slavery,because all have sinned there are none righteous therefore the curse. there is no more curse in Jesus and no more law in Jesus.
---exzucuh on 6/23/06

Helen.....Psychology is NOT a gospel, false or true; it is a branch of science. God gave us a mind to use to for understanding. That doesn't mean we dismiss God's presence in the healing process however. There is alot of black/white, either/or thinking here....
---Nancy on 6/23/06

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Nancy: Who is your god? Reference your comment 6/22/06 regarding not judging...

Rebecca_S: Good catch..."Grace"...(1 Sam. 15:23 regarding rebellion; Eph. 6:10-18)
---Leon on 6/23/06

This is the Word the law
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
It was nailed to the cross to take it out of the way because it judges, now it can't judge those who turn to grace but does judge those under the law. you see theres more to it because theres more word to back it up. you have to rightly divide the word.
---exzucuh on 6/23/06

Were does it say that pastors have authority in the church? Shouldn't the pastor be one of many servants? Pastor, meaning shepherd. I don't see anything about positional authority of the pastor in the Bible so how can a woman pastor be usurping authority when there is no real authority to usurp? Or has the church made a bigger deal about the pastor than is necessary?
---john on 6/23/06

Women are the weaker vessel? You see how, if you always take the written Word literally, you can make a lie out of it. We are intructed to not only live by the letter but by the spirit of the Word. So what does the spirit of the Word say to us there? The letter says women shouldn't speak in the church. Is there a particular problem being addressed? Some cultural and traditional beliefs in there maybe?
---john on 6/23/06

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Basing the things of God on an 'experience' is foolish. We are to walk by faith and not by sight and certainly not some goofy self-edifying feeling or experience. Those who do are as weak as can be and cannot stand on their own. They have to be spoon fed the 'supernatural' and satan loves them. The wise see trouble and turn aside but the foolish just keep plundering headlong into it. Good grief!
---Rebecca_S on 6/23/06

I just want to say that I have carefully read all of your responses and if I were the devil, I'd be laughing my head off, why you ask? Because the trick of the devil is to get Christians to argue about doctrine, to judge this preacher, etc., which is what you are all doing here. Didn't you ever hear the saying: "You eat the chicken and spit out the bones?" You take what the Holy Spirit uses to minister to you, what doesn't, you spit out the bones. Get it?
---Donna9759 on 6/23/06

Madison and Nancy - I too have received a miraculous healing from the Lord Jesus. Three years ago I came home crying my heart out to Jesus 'cause I was just diagnosed with Emphysema and I was still smoking and just could not stop. I cried to Jesus "You have to do something" -- He asked me to confess it as a sin, which I did, and also told Him that I believed that He took my cigarettes on the Cross. I was set free immediately. That is what a true healing is.
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

Nancy - Psychology is a False Gospel.
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

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Helen: I am saying that God works through psychology. I am not saying God cannot work without psychology. He does both. With me, he uses psychology to heal me, and to allow me to work with others so He can heal them, as I am a therapist. For some, He just heals them directly.
---Madison1101 on 6/23/06

Helen, that is not what Madison is saying. God uses everything for the good........including psychology. It isn't just snap your fingers and your all better......healing is a process, and psychology is a type of medicine. It helps us to understand our behavior. It isn't evil and it doesn't mean we don't take things to God. God uses psychology to help us, Madison and I have both had experiences that prove it.
---Nancy on 6/23/06

exzucuh. I cannot believe you think the WORD was nailed to the cross! The world hates the Word and has tried to destroy it since day one. Who's side on you on?! Our sins were what was nailed to the cross. Jesus took them all so we can become the children of God. The Word of God still lives and He said His word would last forever!
---Rebecca_S on 6/23/06

Madison 1101 - What you are proposing is that God really cannot heal by Himself at all that He really does need help from mankind in the form of psychology!!! What a lie that is. God is. That is denying the finished work of Jesus on the Cross. Either Jesus heals or no healing takes place at all. You are taking God's Word and twisting the truth to suit your means. False teachers and those who believe their lies will answer to God.
---Helen_5378 on 6/23/06

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I have read it and I do know what it means as I have said before. I gave you your answer and you can be made free of your bondage, it is up to you, the truth makes free it does not make slaves, thats how you know the difference, But believing thats up to you. I'm already free and I don't need anything thats going to limit God. I don't need the law I have the law of the Spirit written in my heart. Jesus is the word made flesh and it was nailed to the cross so it wouldn't judge those who came to Jesus.
---exzucuh on 6/22/06

exzucuh, "She was his creation and had capabilities no other had because God gave them to her"..that is your view, sounds good, looks good on paper, but that is not in the bible! We are ALL creations of God and any abilities we have are from Him. She was made judge for one reason and one reason only. Find it, read it and learn.
---Rebecca_S on 6/22/06

I have read that and none of that is why God made her Judge he made her judge because he is God and She was his creation and had capabilities no other had because God gave them to her. And she was not afraid to obey God and did not listen to blind guides of that day that would tell her she must stay in her place. Grace makes us free. Woman are slaves under the law.
---exzucuh on 6/22/06

2. BTW, she is referred to as Deborah, the wife of Lapidoth. The women were always identified by the husband, the head of the house. Also, she never sat and judged as the men judges did in the gates of the city. She was out in a field under the palms. There is a reason for that. Find it, read it and learn.
---Rebecca_S on 6/22/06

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1. exzucuh, if you take the time to read the account of Deborah being made judge over the land, you will see it was done as a judgement against the ungodly and spineless men of that day. It was done to shame them. Deborah was a godly woman who was put into a position that had always been given to men. When God could not find a righteous man, He used a woman to show them what a disgraceful lot they were. Even the military commander refused to go to battle unless she went with him.
---Rebecca_S on 6/22/06

Nancy, Why would God show you contrary to what is written in God's Word?

1Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6
---Creancup on 6/22/06

Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. Have you ever read the Bible God made a woman Judge over Isreal under the Law. Just because Paul told some busy body women to keep their mouth shut in the church dosen't mean he was also talking to women ministers. Paul himself being taught by a woman minister. You believe in that foolish male doctrine saying Paul said it but will not believe his other scriptures I give you concerning more important things.
---exzucuh on 6/22/06

Grace, read what you just wrote. Yes, pagan religions always go against what God has said. The first couple was made with the man to be the head. You can't go any further back than than. That was the way God intended it to be but satan had other plans. You're claiming to be a Christian and upholding heathen practices as something we should do! God an His plan came first.
---Rebecca_S on 6/22/06

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tofurabby....I don't take everything in the Bible literally. That's all.....especially if it goes against what God has shown me. The Bible has been subject to cultural influences and you have to think about that before jumping in and going literal. Especially if it causes hurt and is judgemental in any way.
---Nancy on 6/22/06

I do not doubt that a woman can teach just as well as a man, I am not trying to belittle women by any means. I just go by what the Bible tells me and agree that peoples actions need to follow the Bible. God wrote down the roles he would like us to fill and I will not go against it. It is ironic to me that you now say quoting scripture is useless unless we live (behavior, actions) accordingly and then reject what it says.
---tofurabby on 6/22/06

I absolutely don't agree, can quote scripture all day long, but in end, if you don't LIVE (behavior, actions) accordingly, then there is nothing but hypocrisy. God would not judge a women's leadership ability based on her sex, but on her understanding of spiritual matters. A woman is just able to comphrehend God as a man......The God that I know wouldn't judge based on sex but human man would.
---Nancy on 6/22/06

Exactly, Madison!!! Well said!
---Nancy on 6/22/06

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As much as you may think a woman is weak and man's ego (arrogance) is greater, therefore making him weak. In that weaken state he can get into compromising situations: which makes all God's people look bad.
---MT. on 6/22/06

Nancy, You said "You can quote LITERAL scripture until the end of time, but it can never take the place of example by behavior."

There is never... never a single point in time where man's actions take precedent over the Word of God. I dont care how "good" a person may seem or may say, if they cause you to stop putting God's Word first, then they are not of God. God's Word is the final authority over all.
---tofurabby on 6/22/06

Nancy: I so agree with you. Part of healing is believing truth, instead of lies. Truth is found in scripture. Romans 12 says to be transformed by the renewing of the mind. That is psychology. Jesus said "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Free from what? Bondage of mental illness, from spiritual oppression, from Satan's hold on our minds and lives.
---Madison1101 on 6/22/06

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