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Where Do Backsliders Go

Describe what happens when a person "backslides."

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 ---melissa on 8/5/06
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In Hebrews 10:26-29 it mentions "How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" Ill repeat who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him. What do you think a person being covered in the blood of Jesus and then sanctified means?
---Matthew on 5/6/08

paul struggled with sin(Rom 7:19)For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise.(Rom 7:20) But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me." we should always desire to be in fellowship with God"(1Jn 1:8)If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(1Jn 1:9)If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
---richard19791979 on 8/25/07

Amen, Lisa!

Matthew, when the Bible says that the devil believes in God, its referring to the devil believing that God exists. Everyone knows (or should know) that no one is saved by simply believing that God exists. When the Bible tells us to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved, the word "believe" here means "to trust", "to put ones trust into", "to entrust one with your life". Its not referring to simply acknowledging God's existence.
---Kay on 1/3/07

I truly doubt when Jesus said, "anyone who comes to me I will not cast out" was meaning people who just believe in him. He wants you to obey him also. Even the devil himself believes in Jesus.
---Matthew on 11/28/06

Matthew, a blog ends with Christ-like replies, then somone comes along, adds their capstone. Usually, it's critical, wanting to start another argument. Not sure if it's an unrelenting critical nature, or the need for any kind of attention.
---Tim on 11/28/06

Matthew, You cannot stop people from believing that they are saved forever. They do believe what Jesus said, "And he who believes in Me, shall never thirst" and again "All that the Father gives me will come to me; and him who comes to me I will not cast out All those that are saved believe this very words Matthew, the very words of Christ to the believer. Sealed means sealed, Scripture never mentions unsealed, or eternity been temporary.
---lisa on 11/28/06

2. "For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but MY steadfast love shall not depart from you, and My covenant of peasce shall not be removed, says the Lord, who has compassion on you."
---lisa on 11/28/06

No you are right Tim. The biggest problem is a personal arguement may start that will never end unless someone just says "Sorry but I'm no longer going to respond to you?"
Then they respond that it's because you know they are right anyway. Why are people like that? I just wish to speak the truth but people make it so personal that their is no choice but to ignore them. In turn they assume they "won" the arguement when really the person is just giving up on them.
---Matthew on 11/27/06

Matthew, I appreciate your optimism. Have you ever tried to stop a freight train? I don't know if 2520 OSAS comments can be stopped or will ever be stopped before the second coming of Christ.
---Tim on 11/27/06

Dear Matthew, You are living proof that God is working with the young people today. Matthew, I find your godly honest-hearted reasoning very refreshing the Word says "As a man thinketh, so is he"(Proverbs 23:7). Stay IN Christ Jesus/The Truth, Which is God's PERFECT Love! God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/26/06

This should end all the OSAS and if it doesn't something is wrong. I John 3:6-10
"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.
---Matthew on 11/26/06

II) No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother."
---Matthew on 11/26/06

Thank you brother Bruce for your explanation. I am glad that you answered me. I have read much of what you say and on most all the blogs, you do a great job, and you are very orderly. Your answers to almost all of what you wrote concerning sin and what you believe in OSAS subject was very clear to me. I believe with the exception of 5:4. Estranged from Christ..fallen from grace" The Greek word for "estranged" means "to be separated," or "to be severed."
---lisa on 11/26/06

2. The word "fallen" means "to lose one's grasp" on something. Paul's clear meaning is that any attempt to be justified by the law is to reject salvation by grace alone through faith alone. Those once exposed to the gracious truth of the gospel, who then turn their backs on Christ (Heb. 6:4-6) and seek to be justified by the law are separated from Christ and lose all prospects of God's gracious salvation.
---lisa on 11/26/06

3. Their desertion of Christ and the gospel only proves that their faith was never genuine (Luke 8:13,14). And 5:5 "the hope of righteousness by faith Christians already possess the imputed righteounsness of Christ, but they still await the completed and perfected righteousness that is yet to come at glorification (Romans 8:18,21). with verse six, Nothing done or not done in the flesh, even religious ceremony, makes any difference in one's relationship to God.
---lisa on 11/26/06

4. And Paul explains that a true believer has faith that is working through love. Saving faith proves it genuine character by works of love. The one who live's by faith is internally motivated by love for God and Christ (Matt. 22:37-40). On the other hand, there is others that have heard the Truth of the gospel, know what God ask of them, yet they wish to take another path to reach the goal. Thanks again for your answer Bruce.
---lisa on 11/26/06

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(I.)Bruce,I had to post this,The Holy Spirit led me to: Godly Reasoning is so important, the Word says "As a man thinketh,so is he(Proverbs 23:7)",We must have this mind (Philipp.2:5). We must be careful not to mix "man's-reasoning" with God's reasoning(which is much higher),Christian's that rely on "man's-reasoning" will NOT live the way God wants them to live.The reason why Jesus spoke so ardently against evil is because God doesn't tolerate complacency.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/26/06

(II.)Bruce,If Jesus would of said,He who sin's often is of the devil, instead of "He who sin's is of the devil",that would leave room for complacency and corrupt reasoning.God doesn't"mince Words",man does.Jesus would not of said"Go and Sin No More" If it were not possible. Once again,Christian's must yield themselves completely to the Holy Spirit,allowing God's power to control them,which is much more powerful then even their "best effort".God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/26/06

The backsliders are them spoken in II Peter:

II Peter 2:20: "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again
entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the
beginning." See also matthew 12:45.
---Nana on 11/25/06

II Peter 2:21: "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of
righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment
delivered unto them." See also Luke 12:48.

II Peter 2:22: "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The
dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing
in the mire.".
---Nana on 11/25/06

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(I.)Bruce5656 , My Lord didn't suffer on that cross and die in the manner that He did, for Christian's to proclaim "I don't habitually sin" and that is fine. God Forbid! Jesus said GO AND SIN NO MORE, not "Go and sin in less frequency", He meant what He said. God don't accept "half-stepping " in regard to His Truth, People will have to make a choice with His Truth, People will either deny self, or walk in deceit. Bruce, I follow Jesus , not man.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/25/06

(II.)Bruce, You say you can't align yourself with Eloy, I can't align my self with anyone or anything that changes the Words of my Lord, or anyone or anything that professes that Jesus' Blood is "mere human"(corruptible blood). I accept the WHOLE sacrifice of my Lord, which includes His Death and offering of His precious sinless Blood. Bruce, do you? The WHOLE sacrifice of Jesus was "like a lamb without blemish", that includes His Blood too,Bruce(1 Peter 1:18,19).
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/25/06

(III.)Bruce, You said "Mrs. Morgan, represents an extreme point of view that, as with eloy, has zero tolerance for anyone who disagrees with them." Bruce, I don't walk with those who COMPROMISE the Word of God. Opinions means death to many(Proverbs 14:12)(Proverbs 16:9), God's Word is eternal life(John 14:6), only to those who RECEIVE It by the Holy Ghost Himself. Yes Bruce, It is true, that God knows the heart and intentions.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/25/06

Nana, You are welcome! God Bless you too, dear one.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/25/06

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(IV.) Bruce, I want to see you in Heaven with all of my heart, You are the only "Bruce that I know", All you will have to say is "Christianet" and I will remember you(in Heaven), But the Holy Spirit tells me that one can't get there with a "false Christ" with his "mere human blood" and "habitual sinning". You know what I mean Bruce!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/25/06

Correction:(IV.)Bruce,...But the Holy Spirit tells me that one can't get there with a "false Christ"with "mere human blood" and by " NOT habitually sinning",Jesus said the sinning has to STOP. We must condition our minds(Philipp.2:5)to the Word's of Christ and not "man's reasoning".Man's reasoning says "do the be YOU can",but God says "walk in HIS Spirit" which is more powerful then OUR "best effort"!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/25/06

Correction #2:(IV.)Bruce,... Man's reasoning says "do the best YOU can"(not: "do the be YOU can",sorry!) ,but God says "walk in HIS Spirit" which is more powerful then OUR "best effort"!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/25/06

I will be popping up on Christianet from time to time, But for now I will have to focus on my family, many of them are lost and lukewarm, I'm currently working on some Christian literature for them, and my sister will be doing the "Editing" for me, thank goodness(smile)! God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/25/06

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Sorry to take so long to answer. I lost track of which blog your question was in.

Basically, the answer is yes. However it is based on a reading of the whole chapter as well as other passages in the NT..

Hebrews 10:35-38 "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

In Galatians, Paul addresses the problem of the Concision (Judaizers) who were infiltrating the church in Galatia with their version of the Gospel. Their message was that you had to observe the OT law (circumcision in particular) to truly be saved. It is apparent that some of the members of the Church there were falling for this and submitting to circumcision thinking that it would make their salvation surer than faith alone.
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

In his summation, Paul said:
Galatians 5:1-7 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

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Re. agreeing with eloy or Mrs. Morgan about being sinless.

I am reluctant to align with anything eloy says.

Mrs. Morgan, represents an extreme point of view that, as with eloy, has zero tolerance for anyone who disagrees with them.
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

That being said, to sin is a choice. There is no such thing as sin by accident (unless it is of ignorance.) 1 Cor 10:13. Does that mean we can be sinless in practice? Yes. Do we sin? Speaking for myself, the greatest tendency to sin comes in the area of sins of omission not sins of commission.
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

There can be no question that there is an acknowledgment in scripture that we do sin (1 John for example) and that the grace of God is sufficient to cover sin. But there is no license to sin. Rom 6:1-2. Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06


The difference is that for the Christian, sin is not the norm, it is the exception. 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God "sinneth not" My understanding of this passage is that the Greek translated "sinneth not" involves the concept "does not habitually sin".
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

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I believe that the key is walking in the light as John puts it.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. As we live according to the truth we have, as our daily intent and hearts desire to honor God in how we live, we are under (as I call it) Gods umbrella of forgiveness. It bears repeating that this is no license to sin
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06


This is key: God knows the heart. If the heart is looking for an excuse to sin, presuming to take advantage of Gods grace, this can in no way be called walking in the light. God knows the heart. He knows if the desire is to honor Him or to see what one can get away with. He knows if ones dependence is on Him or on self.
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

Non OSAS people tend to accuse OSAS of living lives of sin thinking God will overlook how they live. OSAS people tend to accuse non OSAS of living in fear of "loosing their salvation." Unquestionably there are those who do in fact have those attitudes and one is a tragic as is the other.
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

There are lots of OSAS folk who walk in the light. There are lots of non OSAS who walk in the light. We will meet in Heaven.
---Bruce5656 on 11/24/06

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Mrs. Morgan - Before you go, I pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth.
---Helen_5378 on 11/24/06

Mrs Morgan,
God Bless you too and thanks for your Godly posts.
---Nana on 11/24/06

I pray that those that are walking in the light of God's Truth will continue to walk in that light. And I also pray that those that are walking in darkness will cease in doing that, but choose LIGHT. Amen! I will have to focus on my own blood kin, many of them need godly help/direction. I will have to leave CN. Love you, and God Bless you all!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/24/06

(I.)Mima,I Don't walk in sin.If I told you that I walked in sin, I would be lying. People can't walk in light and darkness at the same time,one must make a CHOICE,then go with that.Those that walk in sin, are sinner's,those that are TRULY born-again, do not walk in sin, but in the Spirit, the Word says this. How a person lives(Fruits) is a example of what's in their soul and heart. Either one yields to the Spirit full-time, or not, part-time is not enough.Jesus didn't say go and sin less, But,Sin NO MORE.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/24/06

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(II.)Jesus pulled me OUT OF darkness,God said His people would be holy,without spot(washed by His precious Blood),the glorious Church, Jesus is ONLY coming for His "glorious Church",and they are not "workers of iniquity(sin)"(Matthew 7:23)Jesus said be ye perfect and go and SIN NO MORE, He meant what He said, be ye PERFECT, Holy through Him. Christian's that are sinning when He comes back will be left behind, and if they die in their sins, they will go to hell,this IS Biblical.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/24/06

(III.)Hopefully this will be the last time someone asks"are you sinless?"People need to be more concerned if THEY are "sinless", sin can't enter heaven. Christian's are to speak God's Truth(not confusion)in regard to Sin and Grace/Salvation while they LIVE IT, or else they are just deceiving themselves, and some other's, But NOT God! God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/24/06

(1.)Helen_5378 , If you think you are going to get into God's holy Heaven with "unrepentant sin", I feel sorry for you, and those that reason like you. Why would someone who claims to be saved through Jesus/washed in His Blood, believe they can carry around "unrepentent sin" and still be clean at the same time? That's NOT Biblical, don't make sense, the Blood of Jesus DON'T MIX with willful sin(Hebrews 10:26,27), the Blood only cleanses a person when they honestly repent.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/24/06

(2.)Some don't know what "True Salvation through Christ" means. Trying to use Scriptures to "so-called" prove that sin can enter Heaven is sad!
Helen_5378 , "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Revelation 21:27)
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/24/06

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Mrs. Morgan: would I be correct in assuming that you believe that your sinless? Free of all sin?
---mima on 11/24/06

Mrs. Morgan - That is not true. To say that one unrepentant sin will keep a person out of heaven is wrong. There is sin not leading to death (1 John 5:16). There are sins of ignorance which we all commit. There is also sin leading to death, Galatians 5:19-21. It depends what the sin is. To wilfully continue in sin that leads to death would cause a person to lose their soul if they do not repent. On the other hand, if it is sin not leading to death, then their salvation is not lost. We cannot judge.
---Helen_5378 on 11/23/06

Mrs. Morgan - ("You are not saved until all your sinning stops") -- That is a lie no matter who said it. If that were the case, then none of us would ever be saved and none of us would ever make it to heaven. While we are still in the flesh, we will always sin. Perfection only awaits us in heaven. The Bible does not teach sinless salvation.
---Helen_5378 on 11/23/06

Mrs. Morgan - ("Sin cannot enter heaven") -- That is correct. That is why Jesus had to die for us, so that we can enter Heaven in Christ Who is the sinless One. When God looks at me, He sees His Son Jesus the Lamb of God.
---Helen_5378 on 11/23/06

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2/... Then when God looks in the Lamb's Book of Life, He sees my name in it. Then He looks for me, but cannot see me because I am hidden in Christ. I am totally in Christ and His Blood covers me.
---Helen_5378 on 11/23/06

Matthew, CORRECT, CORRECT,CORRECT. I heard a good minister say, "You are not Saved until all your sinning STOPS". The blood of Jesus must "continue to work" in a Christian's life, those that believe you can get saved in '71, and still be saved, while not yielding to God's Word, are deceived. God requires us to YIELD to Him, so He CAN mold us into what He wants us to be, and that is NOT a sinner. Sin can't enter heaven.(2 Corinth. 7:9,10). God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/23/06

(II.)Matthew, Some Christian's are "fully aware" that God must be given the freedom to "mold us", and He can't do that to a rebellious Christian. There is NO liberty in rebellion. Jesus said only a FEW will walk down that narrow Holy Ghost Disciplined Road to Heaven, in which, GOD CALLS CHRISTIAN'S TO WALK. God is patience and loving, but expects Christian's to eventually "grow up, and wax strong in His Truth".
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/23/06

(III.)Matthew, If they fail to do this, something is wrong. A Christian that has a problem with sin, means one or some of these things :(1.)Has not "fully matured spiritually speaking", (2.)doesn't want to yield to God, or (3.)Was never saved to begin with. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/23/06

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Even one unrepentent willful sin will cause a Christian to go to hell, but many Christian's don't understand this, and that is dangerous! (Hebrews 10:26,27)
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/23/06

(1 John 3:9,10)
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/23/06

Matthew , You sound just like my brother Bob, he is so honest-hearted , like Nathanael(John 1:47), a blessing indeed! He believes in the importance of TRUE godly repentance and living IN God's holiness and righteousness, and not making excuses(like the "sin-nature")not to do so.(2 Corinth. 7:9,10). Stay innocent in mind(reasoning)(Philippians 2:5)and spirit through Christ Jesus(smile)! God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/23/06

Being sinless is steadily being repentant of all sin and asking for forgiveness and repenting them even more as you do them. It doesn't mean you wont sin but it does mean you flee from them. Rather than just saying "Oh well it doesn't matter I'm saved anyway." That attitude is NOT God's way.
---Matthew on 11/23/06

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Sinless is not difficult and again it doesn't mean you won't sin. If I am sinless at this very moment it means as of this moment my sins are forgiven and I am making an effort to never sin again. Sinless is the idea of being forgiven and having repented of all your past sins. It doesn't mean you won't do them anymore.
---Matthew on 11/23/06

Bruce, since you gave Matthew a great ok on OSAS, and you didn't say in what part he was ok. Did you mean that his interpretation of Hebrews 10:26-29 was correct? Also which part of Galatians are you speaking about that discribes born again believers losing salvation? I ask you since you are very good with God's word. Of course I already know you don't believe in OSAS so as a curtesy, can you please answer my question?
---lisa on 11/23/06

2. My other question is, do you really believe Matthew and Morgan on the subject that they are sinless or can become sinless in their lifetime? I also see you don't want to answer many questions but somehow you had to say something on this for a reason. There is many other blogs about the subject but you stay away from them. That is why I ask, thank you brother Bruce,
---lisa on 11/23/06

With our help,and also the help of the Word and Truth, He forward slides to Jesus Christ our Lord where theres rest in the soul. Amen Hallelujah...Know ye all...Jesus is our Rest..In Him only will we get the peace in our lives...
---billy on 11/23/06

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Eph 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them
---willow on 11/22/06

Mrs. Morgan, are you discribing backsliders here in 2 Timothy 3? How is it you see all enemies of the Gospel as backsliders? Many places Christians are warned about those who are imposters. Yet you call them backsliders. Do you know how to rightly divide the Word of Truth?
---kathr4453 on 11/22/06

Mrs. Morgan and Matthew, you're both right on target. In spite of those who bear false witness, continue to let your light from Jesus Christ shine brightly. Feed deep on the words of Jesus, for the truth we preach will always prevail over those with empty-talk.
---Eloy on 11/21/06

(2 Timothy Chapter 3)
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/21/06

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John Mark, who was with Paul and Barnabas did exactly that. Yet he came back. Paul was so angry at Barnabas for wanting John Mark back in the Ministry, that it destroyed for years Paul and Barnabas's friendship. I guess at that time Paul didn't believe one could do such a thing. Well guess what, one can,..... but here is the clincher...The "real thing" comes back. The prodical son came back. It happens. Let's pray for all prodical son's and daughters. God knows real thing comes back!
---kathr4453 on 11/21/06

So you see Mrs Morgan, we are called to restore people back to the Lord, and to pray for them, not condemn them. That is not our job. Many people are caught in the snare of false teachers. It's the calling of the Church to preach the truth and to wake those out of their slumber. In doing so, those who were never saved, just may hear the Gospel, and those being drawn away by false teachers may wake up, repent and turn back. The WORD of God is living and powerful.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/06

Morgan, you speak against Grace more then anyone. You put every believer under the law. you might not understand it but you do. When you speak against the believer and the promises of Christ, you are accually working against Him. You tell Matthew great. But he is a new born believer and you are already pointing him the wrong teachings. You will be held responsible Morgan.
---lisa on 11/21/06

Your conclusions on OSAS are very correct. A simple reading of Galations will demonstrate this truth.
---Bruce5656 on 11/21/06

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Mrs. Morgan, please back up what you're saying with scripture that one can lose their salvation and get RE-SAVED. Show me exactly where it says that John Mark got RE-SAVED. Show me clearly where it said he lost his salvation. If you don't have clear cut scripture that one looses their salvation and gets RE-SAVED,then it's not the teaching of scripture, but the false teaching of man who doesn't understand scripture. Please back up with scripture these 2 questions. Loosing salvation,and getting RE-SAVED.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/06

The backslider slides away from the Lord, and slides into sin: if the backslider returns to the Lord they will be saved; if the backslider does not return to the Lord they are rightly thrown into hell.
---Eloy on 11/20/06

A-men Matthew. The light of Jesus Christ keep you on the straight and narrow way, for few there be that find it and stay thereon, and his most Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth. In Jesus I pray. Amen.
---Eloy on 11/20/06

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