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Is The Rapture Next

Do you believe the "he" referred to in 2Thess.2:7 is the church? Meaning maybe the rapture is the next event on the Biblical calender?

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There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
---Jack on 8/20/07

(II.) ....then 7 vials(bowls) of Judgment(Rev. 16), ending with Armageddon(Rev. 14:14-20, 19:11-21). God will cleanse the earth through His judgments, then Jesus will reign here for 1,000 years(Rev.20:1-4).Some think this is a fantasy, no, it isn't. God's says to be prepared(2 Peter 3:9-12,14)(Luke 21:36) but for many His warning falls on DEAF EARS , nevertheless, all will be fulfilled, that's thus saith the Lord!
---Mrs._Morgan on 10/24/06

(I.)Yes , the Rapture is next, the Holy Spirit , Bible prophecy bears witness to this, and most Christian's will be slumbering (spiritually speaking), unprepared. Immediately after the Rapture, the world will go into 7 Years of Great Tribulation in which Jesus will break 7 Seals of Judgment(Revelation chapters 6,8:1) and with the 7th seal bringing in the "7 Trumpet Judgments"(Rev. 8:2-13)(Rev.9,10,11)....
---Mrs._Morgan on 10/24/06

"[many here] believe in a post... just the second coming of Christ."

Precicely the point!

"Rapture" is part of a Dispensational Theological system, and that is not a fundamental belief of Christianity--although many fundamentalist churches believe so.

Rather than be tied to "number spinners" and "end times watchers" some, like me, say Jesus can come before the period at the end of this sentence.

Covers a lot of territory, right?
---John_T on 8/30/06

For those who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture, when do you believe that the rapture will take place then? Mid-tribulation or Post? It sounds like most of your believe in a post, which then is not really a rapture, but just the second coming of Christ.
---Jen on 8/23/06

Mrs. Morgan I suggest you take time to read about Paul for one in Romans 7:14-25.
---Elder on 8/18/06

(3.)Alan, ....Once again , how we live before God is between us and God, but we better be abiding in His Truth, if we stumble , get back up, God never says give up, give in, but the devil does all the time. At the end of lifes journey we better not rely on some "false form" of God's Grace to "excuse us" from yielding and obeying God's Holy Commandments. --Mrs. Morgan.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/16/06

(2.)Alan, ....I see no record in the Bible were the Apostles said they were struggling with sin all the time, they spoke quite the opposite.Without God we couldn't do anything, must less stay out of sin.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/16/06

(1.)Alan, how we live before God and our relationship with Him is personal, it is up to us how we live before Him, but we better be abiding in His Truth, the Apostles were abiding in God's Truth, God would not of been able to use them like He did if they were not abiding in His Truth. For you to make a statement that the Apostles were struggling with sin, that just doesn't sound Biblical,where is the Scripture to back that up?
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/16/06

Those who are "In Christ" are being perfected through Christ in us. We, as long as we are in these earthly houses, will never here "be perfect". It's not something WE achieve, it is however the desire of our heart, that has this hope in us to be like Him, even as He is. Yield your lives, and the Lord will do the rest.
---kathr4453 on 8/16/06

Kim - Yes I agree with you. However, the whole of our Christian walk is to be done in Christ, which means staying at the Cross and trusting every moment in Jesus' victory on the Cross for our victory over the world, the flesh and the devil.
---Helen_5378 on 8/16/06

Helen; That is the beginning of our walk with The Lord. We are to go on to perfection. Read Philippians Chapter 3. There is more than just being justified. We are saved by His life, His risen life, and we are to abide in Him, and grow. Pressing on. So many just stop at their justification. No where in scripture is that taught.
---Kim on 8/15/06

Mrs M ... "Jesus said "Be ye perfect""
Now who did He actually address when He said that ... the disciples? Well, how many of them are recorded as being subsequesntly sinless?
He told the woman to go and sin no more. Did He mean don't sin in that particular way (with men) or don't sin at all?
Al the evidence is that none of the disciples or the apostles achieved sinlessness in their earthly lives.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/15/06

We "all" have to answer to God, "not each other" . Some people get so easily offended like someone is coming after them, and it just aint true. The Bottom line is that we have to know the Word, not fashion it into something that is more convenient for us. Thus saith the Lord is Thus saith the Lord, period. We are all responsible for how we live before our God on this earth, He have given us much, so much is expected(Luke 12:48). --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/15/06

Helen_5378 , Jesus said to be ye Perfect, not I. If you are so bold tell Him , that you will not Abide in His Truth(being perfect through Abiding in His Truth). I'm not into circular reasoning I accept what God says period.--Mrs. Morgan.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/15/06

Mrs Morgan - You see none of us, even the most mature Christian, can ever live up to God's perfect standard. That is why Jesus had to die on the Cross for our sins. For those of us who are born-again, we are in Christ, so when God the Father looks at us He sees Jesus, not us. That is justification by faith. We have nothing good of ourselves. We have Christ's righteousness in His finished work on the Cross imputed to us. In Christ.
---Helen_5378 on 8/15/06

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Mrs Morgan - Yes I am a saint. I am a saint who still sins sometimes. I am a saint who was a sinner, but now I am a sinner saved by God's grace. If you think you never sin, then you had better think again. Are you someone special who has attained perfection on earth?
---Helen_5378 on 8/15/06

Mrs. Morgan, the alternative view, a partial rapture, is not supported in scripture. As I said before there is no such thing as a second class Christian. There is no partial or almost Christians for, as noted before "Almost saved is completly lost." The concept of a partial rapture belongs in the same file as OSAS.
---Bruce5656 on 8/14/06

Either you are or are not a member of the body of Christ. The rapture is not a reward for deeds done. It is the fulfilment of the promise of Jesus John 14:1-3, "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ... I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
---Bruce5656 on 8/14/06

Bruce5656 , you can't say that for sure, that the beheaded one's got saved only in that time period, although some "will get saved" during the TP. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

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Alan, One more time, Jesus said to go and sin no more & be ye perfect which is only possible through Him, we need to Abide in Him/His Truth Always. --Mrs.Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

Mrs Morgan ... it sounds good, what you say, but there has been only one sinless person ... Jesus
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/14/06

Alan,(4.) God said that His "True"people are a "Peculiar People", a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9)(Titus 2: 14)(Deut. 26: 18)(Ex. 19: 5 )( Deut. 14: 2), they don't look, sound or act like the world, because they live in the Spirit and not in the flesh. --Mrs. Morgan.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

Alan, (3.) It's not the "Not Sinning" part that we are to focus on , we focus on Being Obedient to God, Yielding, Abiding, and Continuing in His Word, the "Not Sinning" part is the wonderful" By-Product "of that. Do you know what I mean? --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

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Jack, he is very clear that the parable is about the end of the world, or the time when Christ will return to establish and rule his kingdom on earth. He does not say he wont rapture out the church first. He is speaking of what will happen at the very end. There will be people who turn to Christ after the rapture, primarily the Jews. It is about an event seperate from the rapture.
---tofurabby on 8/14/06

There is no such thing as almost saved, half saved, partially saved, incompletely saved etc. Hebrews 7:25, "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

"Almost saved is completely lost."

The idea of a partial rapture does not fit my bible (and yes it is KJV.)
---Bruce5656 on 8/14/06

PART TWO:The fact that there will be martyrs during the tribulation simply speaks to the fact that some will be saved during that time period but will pay with their lives for that decision. It does not indicate in any way that there will be a rememant of Christians left over that missed the rapture.
---Bruce5656 on 8/14/06

Alan, (2.)one more thing, Jesus said those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled, filled with what? righteousness. Alan, we are to Abide, Continue, and yield to the Word of God, then sinning won't be an issue. --Mrs.Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

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alan8869_of_UK , think spiritual
thinking not fleshly thinking, Alan, Jesus said that he who is born of the flesh is flesh, but he who is born of the spirit is spirit, when we are born of the spirit(born-again)the sinning stops, if a persons falls, they are backslidden. If you like you can go back to the "osas "and "is it possible to not sin" blog. The Scriptures are clear on this, only some are making it difficult.--Mrs.Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

tofurabby , you are so right about living our lives before God. We must live right, which is only possible through Him. Even if a person misses the Rapture, their Salvation will see them though, Heaven will be theirs in the end because they won't forsake their testimony.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

Mrs M ... Do you really think that you no longer sin?
That seems unbiblical to me.
We will be presented sinless before God, but that is because our sins are covered by Jesus, not because we are perfect in our actions
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/14/06

Helen_5378 , so your a SinnerSaint ? What is that?
People should not misinterprete Sinner Saved by Grace. Sinner(Past tense) saved by Grace. You can't be saved and be a sinner at the same time. The sinning has to stop. But this was talked about in the OSAS blog and the "Is it possible to not sin blog". --Mrs. Morgan.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

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** Jack, You are always so quick to condemn the pre-trib rapture idea and those who believe it, yet never give valid biblical evidence to support your theories either.**

I have repeatedly given several, but here is one passage:

The parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13.

Jesus doesn't say that the wheat gets gathered a week before harvest time (or 1007 days before the harvest), but they BOTH grow together till the harvest, and then what gets gathered first?
---Jack on 8/14/06

Mrs. Morgan you said, "All the virgins were clean and pure, Blood washed." The Bible doesn't say that. You are adding to Scripture again.
Five were foolish and didn't prepare even after being warned. Matt 25:2-10 the wise were ready for the Bride Groom.
Any left behind at the Rapture are lost and have never been Saved.
In all the years I have dealt with people on this subject, who hold your view, it is always some other Christian that is not going but they are always going. Why?
---Elder on 8/14/06

Instead of just talking Morgan why don't you answer the questions put to you? We all have an opinion of things but opinions are not truth. You cannot expect total obedience to you. Unless you are glorified already and seating in judgement of others, in Christ own seat. And as we know you are not. You are just a sinner and always will be a sinner until you die. For all come short of the glory of God.
---karen on 8/14/06

Helen_5378 , yes I do believe in the true authentic born again experience, I'm not disagreeing with you on that point, but I don't agree with you about All Born Again Christians going up, for reasons that I mentioned previously . --Mrs.Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

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2/... Unless of course you happen to mean sinners that are not saved i.e. born-again, but you did not state that.
---Helen_5378 on 8/14/06

Mrs Morgan - ("wait and see if sinners get into heaven, since some claim they do"). We are all sinners and those who are born-again are sinners saved by grace. I don't know where you get this idea that you are no longer a sinner, because we will all fall short of the mark on this earth. Perfection awaits us all in heaven. You are claiming something that is outright not Biblical.
---Helen_5378 on 8/14/06

Mrs Morgan - Maybe you would care to read my post again. I did not say as you claim "all the Christians who are left behind". What I said is "...only those who are not born-again will be left behind". Someone who is not born-again is obviously not a Christian, or did you not know that? Therefore what I am saying is that all those who are born-again Christians will be raptured, and those who are not will be left behind.
---Helen_5378 on 8/14/06

2. "Those looking for a pre-trib rapture will be the first to fall down and worship Antichrist." Real Christians will be fine even if there is no rapture. Its those who claim Christ yet live secular worldly lives, decieving themselves who will be in for a shock. They will miss the rapture or from your view fall with the anti-christ. Unless our hearts are truly with Christ we will miss heaven. Our short lives here are just a small test to see how we will live in heaven. Do we make the grade?
---tofurabby on 8/14/06

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Jack, You are always so quick to condemn the pre-trib rapture idea and those who believe it, yet never give valid biblical evidence to support your theories either. The only quotes I have seen you use are from the olivet discourse which takes place after the rapture would have already occured. Jesus is speaking of his physical return when he will establish his kingdom on earth and will rule. He is not talking about the rapture at all. The best evidence for me is Rev. 3:10 when Christ will save the Church.
---tofurabby on 8/14/06

karen, (2.) ....and on another point, wait and see if sinner's get into heaven, since some claim they do, you know. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

karen,(1.) "All" will know what is true and what is fiction when the Rapture takes place, and "even then" some will be "in denial". As usual there are many opinions on this matter, but I stick with the Bible Truth(KJV). When some folks hear about people missing all over the world , they will then know they have been left behind, some I guess will just have to wait and see...
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

Elder, (7.).. for he dwelleth "WITH" you, "And" shall be "IN" you.At the time Jesus said this, the comforter(Holy Ghost) wasn't "in them", Jesus commanded them to "TARRY". Many Christians have not been taught right concerning the Holy Ghost & many things. After Salvation, Jesus "commanded them" and "us" to "tarry" , go on to receive the Holy Ghost. But many have looked over this. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

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Elder, (6.)Jesus said I will send you "another comforter",( John 14:17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him;
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

Morgan, I would say you are not understanding God's word because you are listening to your pastor who is so far off himself that he is going to lead you streight to hell. You need to understand that Christians or God's children and they have eternal life. They do belong to Christ, and they have faith in Him and not in themselves. Those are true Christains. The other are apostrates who know the word and refuse to follow the true gospel of Christ, they are fakes, only speak and speak but no truth in them.
---karen on 8/14/06

Helen_5378, it's not fair to say that"all" the Christians who are left behind are not born-again, did you Read in Revelations about the Christians who will be beheaded for their testimony? they came from the Tribulation Period --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/14/06

All Christians are not going in the Rapture. Really? Once one is justified by faith in Christ then we are all in Christ and all justified. Jesus made it possible for us to be justified before the Father by His sacrifice of Himself on the Cross, and we are justified by faith in Jesus. That means that all who are justified are going to be raptured. Obviously only those who are not born-again will be left behind.
---Helen_5378 on 8/14/06

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Elder, (5.) I almost forgot, Revelations talks about some Christian's who were beheaded for their testimony, they appeared in robes of white,they came from the Tribulation Period. The Anti-Christ's rule will be stronger in the" goat nations", the nations that are" against Israel". The U.S.A. is a "sheep" nation(good to the Jews)so the Anti-Christ's rule won't be as strong as say Russia.--Mrs.Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

Elder, (4.)--I stay sober-minded, I am looking for Him(Christ) and I don't listen to the devil, I have hid God's Word in my mind and heart that I might not sin against Him(Psalm 119:11), so I plan on going up! and I hope you do too. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

Elder, (3.) ...I know some will dispute this. And as for your question how do I know, and will I go? Well I choose to Abide in God's Truth daily and Jesus promised to take His obedient one's(Rev. 3:10), resist evil, I depend on God for strength and guidance, I know I am nothing without Him, I have been Baptised in the Holy Ghost, the Baptism of Fire that John spoke of that every born again child of God should tarry(Luke 24:49) and go on to receive after Salvation(Matt. 3:11)(Acts 19:2).
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

Elder, (2.)The "oil" represents receiving the Holy-Ghost on the "inside", in other words being "baptised by the Holy-Ghost". Many have not been taught-right about this. The-Holy-Ghost is "with" a born-again child of God, but we must be" baptised by Him", in order for Him to be on the "inside" "dwelling "inside" of us. It's the Holy-Ghost inside of God's people that will change them in a moment in a twinkling of an eye...
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

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Elder,(1.) this answer will require more that 85 words, but I will start with the Parable of the 10 virgins(Matthew 25:1-13). Many have misunderstood what this parable means. Please note that 5 of the Virgins(All virgins were clean and pure, Blood washed) didn't have the "oil" that they needed to make the Rapture.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

Mrs. Morgan, you say all Christians will not go in the Rapture. Why not and what is your backup to your statement?
Are you one that is going or staying and how do you know?
---Elder on 8/13/06

Those looking for a pre-trib rapture will be the first to fall down and worship Antichrist.
---Jack on 8/13/06

Not all Christians will be taken in the Rapture, but for the one's who are left behind, don't lose hope, don't lose faith, Do that which is right and holy and good, and God will be there waiting for you in the end. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

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** As a point, there is also a concept in Biblical interpretation of ongoing revelation, things that at the time were there but not understood.**

This way lie the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Unification Church.
---Jack on 8/13/06

As a point, there is also a concept in Biblical interpretation of ongoing revelation, things that at the time were there but not understood.
1/ Darcy did not invent Rapture, there are references to it in Pilgrims Progress.
2/ Ongoing revelation: abolition of slavery. The Bible far from condeming slavery encourages it. Payl sends Onesimus back to his master, but tells the master to treat his slave with love,. not free him.
---mike8384 on 8/13/06

(4.)I hope this helps. We are in the closing of the Holy Ghost Dispensation , and the Holy Ghost will not allow the Anti-christ to be revealed until His Dispensation Ends(The Rapture).God Bless. --Mrs. Morgan.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

(3.)Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. --The Holy Spirit is keeping(holding him back) the Antichrist from being revealed until He takes His Flight with the Bride of Christ, when this happens, then the Antichrist will come on the scene the 7 Year Great Tribulation starts.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

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(2.)....only he(The Holy Spirit) who now letteth will let, until he(The Holy-Spirit& the Bride of Christ remember the Holy Spirit is currently dwelling in God's holy-bride) be taken out of the way.And then shall that Wicked be revealed(when the Holy-Ghost goes, the Bride goes, only then will the Antichrist be revealed), whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

(1.) 2 Thessalonians 2:4-9 reads :Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God(the Anti-christ), or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?And now ye know what withholdeth(the Holy Spirit) that he(the Anti-Christ) might be revealed in his time.For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/13/06

Stacie-(Here is the most obvious.
Mark 13:24 (resurrection/rapture).) here is another obvious, Jesus was not talking about a Rapture in the begining of the chapter, he foretold the destruction of the temple which happen 70Ad, besides he said vs 30 ' " THIS GENERATION will not pass away, until these things have taken place, thus the destruction of the temple in 70AD.
---Ruben on 8/13/06

Quite right, Stacie.

Those of us who believe the Bible about a pre-trib rapture being wrong do NOT deny that Jesus is coming.

But the Bible experts of 2000 years ago worked out a schedule for the Messiah to follow--all according to THEIR reading of the Scriptures.

The Messiah came, He didn't follow their agenda, and so they rejected Him.

"And these things are for our examples." I Cor 10:4.
---Jack on 8/13/06

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Here is the most obvious.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, AFTER that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of Heaven shall fall (the sixth seal) , and the powers in the heavens shall be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then He shall send His angels and shall gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven (resurrection/rapture).
---Stacie on 8/12/06

Over a five year intense study, I have personally recorded 49 scriptures that oppose a pretrib rapture and have yet to find one that supports it. All of the scriptures I have found support a prewrath or posttrib rapture/resurrection.
---Stacie on 8/12/06

BTW, Mike and whosoever:

A pre-millennial pre-tribulation dispensationalist interpretation of eschatology is NOT the only Christian school of thought.

In fact, historically speaking, it's a late innovation, not having been heard of before 1830 and John Darby.
---Jack on 8/12/06

Mike--I will be happy to as soon as you prove from Scripture that there IS a pre-trib rapture.

Give book, chapter, and verse in your reply.
---Jack on 8/12/06

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Commentators of the first few centuries interpreted "He who restrains" to be the Emperor. St. John Chrysostom made a big deal of this.

The last Christian Emperor (as opposed to mere king) died in 1918--Tsar Nicholas II, a devout Christian.
---Jack on 8/12/06

Tracy and Jack, you say there isn't a pre-trib rapture, prove it from scripture.
---mike8384 on 8/12/06

II Thess 2:3-8
v3 the Man of Sin to be revealed.
v4 this person opposes everything of God.
v6 something is withholding this Man of Sin from being revealed.
Cond #2
---Elder on 8/12/06

Cond #2
v7 the iniquity is all ready at work but has not been let loose to display all of his evil because something (someone) is opposing him.
Who opposes sin but Gods Holy Spirit? No one.
When the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way the wicked one shall be revealed, v8.
Cond #3
---Elder on 8/12/06

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Cond #3
The Second Coming of Jesus will be noted by our gathering together with Him and the other Saints, v1.
God has given us His Holy Spirit, I Thess 4:7-8.
WE cannot stay here and the Man of Sin be revealed because the Holy Spirit is the one restraining that evil one in II Thess 2:7-8.
If the Holy Spirit goes we go.
Now read I Thess 4:13-18.
---Elder on 8/12/06

The "He" in this verse refers to Michael the arch angel. The Wicked refers to Satan. Rev.12:7 "And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;..." 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth,..." When Jesus told him to get behind Him he was restrained and now stands behind Him as accuser of the brethren until that time.
---Josef on 8/11/06

The church both faithful and apostate is usually refered to as "woman" as I understand it. I believe the He is the Holy Spirit. The second coming seems to be close at which time we will meet him in the air.
---Linda3 on 8/11/06

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