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Violent Take It By Force

Could someone explain this to me; Jesus said ; "The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

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 ---rober9463 on 8/11/06
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I firmly believe that the passage heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force means just that....for example when you play a sport with passion you would agree that you do it with passion and obviously to win..ok with that said..when you take heaven by force meaning with passion becuase you believe firmly jesus is your lord and saviour and everything belongs to him and nothing will keep you from adoring him and worshipping him everyday of your life then your taking heaven by force and your one of the violent...
---juan on 4/27/12

Birthing of a revelation!What is the kingdom? I suggest you substitute "The word" for kingdom and or heaven. And know every word in the bible some one had to labor through fasting and prayer to receive it. And many didn't have a clue what they would here next! And later somebody recorded it or wrote it down! And then they compiled a book called the bible.
---James_Dempsey on 3/22/12

As Christian we suffer persecution by the world. That's is what the devil wants s that we may be sidetracked and turn away from God and his many blessings and HEAVEN! The devil is the King of lies and envyyy! But when evil strikes we must use warfare having victory over the devil. But we can only do this thru Christ as The Bible states that we are more than conquerors thru Christ. Let our lives be Bibles to those who never had one. The Holy Spirit is bigger than the devil and all his minions.
---TehillaJeffrey on 5/29/11

"Heaven" BEGINS right now for the "heavenly minded" that are in Jesus's body.

In THE AGE OF eternity, there is no such thing as FUTURE because there is virtually no "time" in the AGE of ETERNITY.

"Time" still has SOME meaning to God....ONE DAY is as 1000 YEARS, but this the AGE of eternity/forever.

"Heaven" is supposed to INCLUDE "much more" (just like you said).
---more_excellent_way on 4/11/11

more_excellent_way-- I have experienced the "peace that passes understanding" , when even those around me did not understand the peace I had in the midst of tumult. I've experienced wonderful things in the Spirit, that I cannot even describe. I don't disagree that heaven is a state of mind. But I do believe it is much more!

I believe it is a place where believers will meet
with Jesus one day. No "state of mind", no matter how joyous, how peaceful, will satisfy me for eternity.
---Donna66 on 4/10/11

Yes Donna, "heaven" is a state of mind.

Many believers claim Jesus in their mind/heart but do not walk in peace (the "spirit"), that is why God will "shake" heaven.

Hebrews 12:27
"in order that what cannot be shaken may remain".

The god of confusion always prevented proper understanding of scripture in many ways (this is one of them).

The kingdom of God is not "SCHOLARLY KNOWLEDGE" ("food and drink"), it is being righteous and peaceful (holiness, the spirit).

"I am who I am" wants us to wHOLe and complete persons in Him (heaven HOLy).

Romans 14:17
"the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace".
---more_excellent_way on 4/10/11

More excellent way---Most of the time, in this life, I am happy. Really! I can be happy in spite of physical pain or weariness and sometimes despite adversity. The Holy Spirit within lifts me up!

But is Heaven mainly a spiritual state? One that can be experienced here and now?

I will tell you this.I expect Heaven, whenever and wherever it is, to be a whole lot better than the life I have now! In fact, I'm counting on it!
---Donna66 on 4/9/11

I have Jesus in my heart/mind/conscience. "Heaven" is wherever Jesus is. So, no longer do we have to WAIT a period of "TIME" to experience "heaven".

For the "True worshipper" (John 4:23), heaven is part of ETERNITY (this is the age of eternity, why do look outside yourself or ahead to "FUTURE" to find heaven?) "eternity", there is no such thing as "FUTURE". I await the "city of God" and "inheritance" rewards (the spirit is PREPARING ME).

1 Corinthians 2:13
"to those who possess the Spirit".

Ephesians 1:14
"the GUARANTEE of our inheritance UNTIL WE AQUIRE possession of it".
---more_excellent_way on 4/8/11

Clearly from John till Jesus there was an exceptional aggressiveness with which the Kingdom of God advanced (see NIV). So that explains the first part. Regarding the second, I think Jesus made a veiled comment on the ability given to every Christian (in Jesus) to aspire to be heir to the throne of David (see Rev. 3:21). This will also put an end to the Jewish expectation of the Kingdom's restoration (i.e. the 'overcomer' - agressor would've taken the Kingdom by force).
---hop on 4/8/11

Jesus came in the FULLNESS OF TIME. This is not the age of TIME (and there is no such thing as "FUTURE").

"HEAVEN" is NOW "IF" you are in a "heavenly" state of mind.

If you were poverty stricken and even crawling through the gutter, could you still be happy and content?....(this is a heavenly state of mind), or would you be complaining endlessly about being a "woe is me" victim? (a "HELL" state of mind).

The future is the "city of God" and the "inheritance" rewards.

The meaning of that verse is that people would use books and gestures/rituals to "force" themselves to have a heavenly state of mind....this is the age of ETERNITY.
---more_excellent_way on 4/4/11

For appox 400 years, between Malachi and Matthews, there was no spiritual word from God. Israel was under bondage to Rome, so when John came, the poeple knew that it was close to the time that the Messiah was to come. The idea behind, "the kingdom suffereth violence," is that the people thought that the Messiah was to come to free them from the rule of Rome, and restore the Israel as a world kingdom it once enjoy. The people moved with great hast to get in place, but for all the wrong reasons. By the end of Jesus time on earth, the majority had turned back from following him. As Jesus was ready to ascend back to heaven, his diciples asked him, would he now restore the kingdom Acts 1:6
---Elder_M._Davis on 4/4/11

violent-tending to distort the meaning or intent.
Read Genesis 6, especially verses 5, 11 and 13. Look at 2 Samuel 22:3. The people twisted and distorted God's blessings to satisfy their own lusts. He didn't give them life and the things of the earth to do according to their own thoughts and pleasures. He defined it as "violence" according to the above definition. God hates disobedience. Look at 1 Samuel 15:23. The verse in question is not saying a good thing. The kingdom of heaven (God) suffereth (allows) violence (disobedience). The second part defines what the disobedient do. They force (do as they please). Jesus illustrates this in Matthew 11:20-25. Babes will look for instruction and do what they're told.
---jre11 on 2/25/11

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

same scripture in Luke says:

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The text means that strong men, men of courage like John are the ones who preach the gospel, and strong men, men of courage enter the kingdom.

look up greek translation for violent: 1) strong, forceful
---francis on 1/22/11

This scripture is talking about the valiant , the fierce , for the truth . To fight for their Salvation firm until the end . Those who want to conquer and finish this race must be spiritually vicious . Not the negative way vicious is used but in the war for your soul .I'm almost 60 yrs of age and getting close to the finish line and going into the home stretch and to conquer and be Victorious we need to be vicious spiritually against our enemy . This is a war , that's why Vic tor ious and Vicious are connected . See it for yourself , I almost couldn't believe it when I was looking at the word vicious and saw that when the letters tor are placed in the word vicious , it then becomes Victorious ! The Glory goes to Jesus but it's true .
---Joy on 1/20/11

They who will have an interest in the "Great Salvation" are carried out towards it with a strong desire, will have it upon any terms, and not think them hard, nor quit their hold without a blessing....The kingdom of heaven was never intended to indulge the easeeeee of triflers, but to be the rest of them that labour.....Oh that we could see a greater number with a holy contention thrusting themselves into it.....What's the opposite of holy? EVIL. Eyes on Jesus off man.
---catherine on 8/20/10

Taketh by force>>>you will find it in Matthew 11:12. In Luke 16:16>>> The publicans and sinners often sought entrance with great earnestness and determination, while the Pharisees usually made no conscious efforts to enter [see John 3:1-16 for the story of one who did.]
---catherine on 8/20/10

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People full of intensity and passion take a hold of privileges of being a member of the Royal household.They live with great intensity as children of the Most High God..Jesus Himself was certainly not a pushover with no definite belief system...He was intensely obedient and diligent in all He did...Christ in us the hope of glory....seeking with all your heart, mind and body....single minded about the things of God...extremely focussed...Jesus said "Be perfect...." and that will take great obedience, great passion for God's Kingdom...great perseverance...GREAT a very Great God..violence, n.1.physical forced used to damage/injure 2.intensity,severity: as, the violence of the storm.3. desecration.4. great force of feeling,
---Sue on 8/19/10

Jeremiah, 1:9 "Then the Lord stretched out His hand and touched my mouth, and the Lord said to me, "behold, I have put my words in your mouth"..... spiritual gifts can improve. I am much better now than when I first started out. God chose me to be a prophet. I did not ask for the job....The other day I was criticized for admitting that I am a prophet, and, that real prophets don't go around saying that they are a prophet. I do not broadcast it. I have told my family, they all think that I am crazy, too. Luke 13:33>>>Jesus said, "Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day, for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem.
---catherine on 6/2/10

Catherine, you'll find more people willing to listen if you slow down. Wait for God's words to flow in your heart before you start typing. Don't start out with what you know. Sometimes your thoughts are rambling. I honestly believe God has called you prophetically. Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the time your words make you appear self righteous & that will drag you down, not lift you up, much less anyone else. It starts with disappointment which leads to discouragement, resentment, self-pity,persecution complex, & anger. When this happens our doctrine remains true but our spirit is wrong & no one will listen. They just think we're crazy.You are the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus. He is all about love.
---fay on 6/2/10

Will you please give me Scriptures. Make me work. Ha. The answer to your question is this and it does require more studying. Scripture Matthew 11:12>>>The meaning of this saying, taketh by force, and the connection of verses 12-14 with preceding and following contexts, is indicating that John opened the Kingdom of heaven to SINNERS and thus became the culminating [to reach the highest or crucial point] point of Old Testament witness....In LUKE 16:16>>>And every man presseth into it since the Jews rejected Christ's offer of the physical kingdom age, ad His rule over them, that dispensation and ministry was never inaugurated, though it shall be after the Great tribulation [Mt. 24:29-31, Rev. 19:11-20:6].
---catherine on 6/2/10

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the vord VIOLENCE here refers to STRONG MEN, men of courage who will enter the kingdom, and move it forward.
---francis on 6/1/10

The kingdom of heaven means God's righteousness, the good. The violent rob and kill and destroy the good, and they take the good by force. Good Christians suffer at the hands of violent nonChristians, for all who live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But God our Almighty Father himself will deliver us, and condemn every enemy.
---Eloy on 6/1/10

Amen brother Scott!

Daniel 10 is also a frightening example of this war in the heavenlies.
---larry on 5/31/10

yea Scott! perfect explanation. Thank you.
---fay on 5/31/10

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The Kingdom of God has come under violent attack by the forces of Satan. In a war, there are two sides that battle. The other side is the army of God, or the Children of God. The Children of God need to act violently in regards to the devil and his demonic advances on the kingdom. If we patty cake the war, we will lose.

The weapons of our warfare are not physical weapons, but they are spiritual weapons, good for the pulling down of strongholds(2 Corinthians 10:4). Pull down strongholds. This is an act of violence. Violence can be used for good or evil purposes. Violence is just that, violence. It is a forceful action that is meant to change or destroy. The Children of God are changing this world by destroying the devils strongholds.
---Scott on 5/31/10

(continued from earlier reply.)
In Matthew 11:12 (NIV)"...the Kingdom of Heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it." The Kingdom of heaven is causing violent damage to the kingdom of darkness, and Satan does not like it. He is trying everything in his power, be it lies, trickery, deceit, to stop the advancement of the Kingdom of Heaven. Christians must force their way through the attacks of the devil and lay hold of the Kingdom of Heaven.
---Scott on 5/31/10

Before Jesus was glorified, worshippers tried to "force" God's kingdom to 'come to them' by complying with the dictates in their scriptures and "forced" themselves to perform the proper 'gestures' (rituals, rules/ordinances).

The spirit of God cannot really "indwell" if the worshipper must be FORCED to be Godly.

Matthew 11:12
..."take it by force".

John 7:39
"for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified".

Books, etc. do nothing to actually prepare the heart and mind of the worshipper for the kingdom of God.

God's spirit can only "indwell" if we are willing to be like Him (God is LOVE, not faith, not text).
---more_excellent_way on 9/25/09

"From John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force." Read the scripture in context. John the Baptist was forcibly arrested and suffered the violence of having his head decapitated. Likewise, Jesus was threatened when the crowds tried to 'seize' Him and throw him off a cliff.
Then read what Jesus says about his own generation in the verses that follow.

'Harpazo' almost always has a negative connotation regarding violent or forceful seizure by thieves, robbers or violent men. The only exception is when the saints of God are seized or raptured by the bridegroom.
---thomas on 9/25/09

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Who is suffering violence? Heaven!
Who are the ones taking it? The violent!
Think its a good thing to be violent, forceful, assailants!
I see some here have already justified this.

But when was your lord ever violent?
Some say at the temple, he whipped the people.
Some say the tree, with no fruit!
Some even say, he said pickup a sword!
As you hear, you will see his sword, is his word and only his word!

If you understand this, then you also see his sword has two sides.
Some just know how to teach, this is given to you by God.
Other pickup the word and read, thou shall not sin!
Now they are teachers. Look! God said, with no understanding!
God Bless
---TheSeg on 9/11/09

Instead of the term "violence" from Greek, a Hebrew equivalent could be "breaking forth." Jesus may be hinting at Micah 2:12-13 which gives us the image of a shepherd leading a noisy flock through a narrow gate to freedom and green pastures. In fact, there is a rabbinic interpretation existing in Christ's time (discovered by David Flusser) that the "Breach-maker" from Micah represents Elijah and the "King" represents the Messiah. The Kingdom of Heaven is breaking forth, and every person in it is breaking forth finding liberty and freedom. Try searching on Avram Yehoshua for fuller explanation or the book "Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus" by David Bivin and Roy Blizzard, Jr. -Shalom!
---lennie on 9/10/09

Jesus said that because we need to fight the good fight of faith, and not give up.
---Betty on 2/20/09

How about this on this: Like the violence of an army taking a city by storm. Multitudes are wrought upon by the ministry of John, and became His disciples. And it is placed in this Kingdom that one would think had no right nor title to it, and so seemed to be intruders. When the children of the Kingdom are excluded out of it, do you got it? And many come into it from the East and the West, THEN IT SUFFERS VILOENCE. I am having so much FUN. The publicans and harlots believed John, whom the Scribes and Pharisees rejected, and so went into the Kingdom of God before them. You may this scripture in Matt. 11:12-14.
---catherine on 2/20/09

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Mt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now...

You have to read the verse in context. There's a period of time involved, as can be seen from reading the whole verse.

John was the spirit of Elias. Violence is strength of mind, also. Jesus is stating those who realized that John was greater than the prophets (he prepared the way of the Lord) would know who Jesus was. Jesus is confirming He is the Messiah and all one needed do was "take" the fact and accept Jesus.

Now, since Jesus has poured out His Holy Spirit, it is much easier to "take" the kingdom.

The words "take" and "force" are the Greek word, harpazo - the word used for "rapture".
---BruceB on 2/20/09

They who would enter into the Kingdom of heaven must strive to enter, that Kingdom suffers a holy violence, we must run, and wrestle, and fight, and be in agony, and all little enough to win such a prize. And to get over such opposition from without and from within. Oh, that we could see a greater number with a holy contention thrusting themselves into it! They who will have an interest in the Great salvation are carried out towards it with a strong desire, will have it upon any terms, and not think them hard, nor quit their hold without a blessing.Note: The Kingdom of heaven was never intended to indulge the ease of Triflers, but to be the REST of them that labour. Another note: John was the BEGINNING of the GOSPEL.
---catherine on 2/20/09

This verse refers to the unseen warfare that every Christian must engage in against our three common enemies,the world,the flesh and the devil and the fact that we, oftentimes, have to force ourselves to do what we know is right and pleasing to god.

Doing what we know is right does not always come natural to us,but goes against our fallen human nature. However,if we make the effort to do what we know is well-pleasing to God,we dispose ourselves properly to be able to receive the Grace of God by which we are saved and enabled to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
---Steven on 2/20/09

This verse is refering to the fact that the kingdom is always under attack, in the natural and in the spiritual. Those who violently praise, worship and pray will take the heavenly kingdom back and bring it down into manfestation in the earth realm.
---Chena on 11/25/08

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This story, although highly unusual is completely true. While working as a riverboat captain I ha a large sore On my foot. It became infected, and I need to go to the doctor. That night while praying about my foot I became very angry and started to shout at Satan to get out of my body and leave me alone. This was at 12 o'clock at night. At 6 the next morning I got up completely healed! Wild story yet completely true. And I had it least one witness!!
---Mima on 4/21/08

Scripture is difficult to translate. It seems to speak of the world's opposition to Jesus and the Kingdom of God. Those who are citizens of the Kingdom, on the other hand, are commanded to avoid unnecessary conflict. [Titus 3:2] Violence>>The Arrogant and Wicked are said to be clothed with violence like a garment, which means it is a characteristic of their lives and they practice it shamelessly.
---catherine on 4/21/08

I think that the word may have also been translated to 'aggressive' which in British English is a negative word but in Japanese English is used to mean 'positive, energetic'. I think that the idea in the original language was that the leaders who will take people out of deception into the Kingdom of God, do not sit and meditate or have mystical experiences all day. They work and pray, and thus are able to lead people into the true Light of God.
---frances008 on 4/20/08

Thank God for Eloy who posted July of 07. I think his/her response is nearest to the truth. Jesus is NOT talking about followers of Jesus being violent. He's talking about them suffering violence and the violent take it by force, which John the Baptist did NOT. He's contrasting John the Baptist with those that take it by force. Read the verse in context and you will see
---Werd on 3/5/08

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We are to be "violent" in terms of spiritual warfare. It means to bring an abrupt change. We should be fervent in our faith, unafraid of persecution for living as Jesus wants us to live. And to boldly (but respectfully) preach the Gospel to help bring an abrupt change in people's lives by leading them to Christ.
---Greyrider on 11/17/07

Jesus meant that to keep on the narrow path and gain access to eternal life in heaven, one must be "violent" against temptation and sin and must earnestly seek to live a righteous life. Remembering that God "spits out the luke warm", one must be fervent in their repentance, in their uncompromising faith in Jesus and the Word, and in keeping thier "eyes on the prize" and living as Christ lived. One must boldly witness to the world and be on fire for God!
---Christopher on 11/15/07

At this point Jesus is making this statement to alert his followers that the Kingdom of Heaven is imperfect because of principalities and rulers of darkness. Satin is constantly roaming about causing discord in the Heavens and in the earth. There is a spiritual war taking place. This is why God says that he will create a new Heaven and Earth that will be perfect because of the violence and suffering of the present ones.
---Marcia on 7/8/07

Jesus was saying that the people of God suffer damage, as John Baptist in the wilderness was mocked for preaching "Repent- Get Right with God", and our persecutors take us by force. "From the time of John Baptist up to now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent ravage it:" Matthew 11:12. Please continue reading Matthew 11:18,19.
---Eloy on 7/8/07

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Consider this scenario: something happens to those that will inherit the kingdom of heaven. A chikd of God. A prayer warrior is alerted to this problem and begins to pray and war spiritually about this matter. I have only encountered one prayer warrior. I saw him prostrate on the floor praying in an apartment in Shen Yang China, and it truly was a warring prayer. When he saw me he immediately stopped and composed himself to what we would call normalcy.
---mima on 7/8/07

The word violent int the Greek means valiant or faithful or basically setting your face like flint, not being double minded, the word taken is the same word used as caught up, as in us being caught up to meet Christ, a supernatural translation from one place to another, meaning to seek the Kingdom first putting everything else aside and by the Holy Spirit you will receive the Kingdom.
---exzucuh on 1/1/07

All this fighting with the devil is a deception, he is subject to Jesus and must bow,
many today are like the Sons of Zebedee trying to use the name of Jesus but have no authority to use it. If you are under the Blood and believe Jesus is the Son of God the devils will be subject to you. But if cannot through the Holy Ghost defeat the real enemy your flesh, Like Samson you will shake yourself for the anointing but be defeated.
---exzucuh on 1/1/07

In the Spiritual realm, there is a war going on for your spirit between angels & demons (spiritual warfare). Are you for God, or for Satan? You can fight with the angels for your spirit to be with God, or with the demons for your spirit to be with Satan. If you are fighting for God, you have to do battle violently, so as to take back what Satan has stolen from you. There is no room for wimpy wariors (soldiers).
---Leslie on 12/31/06

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** Where is it in the Bible?**

Matthew 11:12.
---Jack on 8/12/06

First in stand in agreement with Debbie.

The verse means the Kingdom of Heaven allows aggressiveness, and the energetically aggressive seizes it and refuses to cave in give up or quit.

The kingdom of heaven is that realm of happiness that is our hope. This hope elevates our thinking & opens us to the empowerment of the Spirit who guides our course in life according to the Gospel of Christ. We embrace this hope and Gospel and refuse to to be deterred.
---Josef on 8/12/06

Can you give the scripture reference please. It is best to read and entire passage to determine the meaning instead of one sentence.
---Linda3 on 8/11/06

We, as born again believers, are seated in the heavenlies with Christ. Eph. 1:3; 2:6; We take that place by faith, we have to fight that good fight of faith. The heavenlies are full of demon forces that try to prevent you taking your place spiritually in the heavenlies, therefore, you have to take the kingdom of heaven by force, spiritually, by our violent faith we take our rightful,God given place.
---Debbie on 8/11/06

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Where is it in the Bible? Often times if we just read the verse we get the wrong meaning behind it, but if you read the whole chapter it usually makes sense in its full context.
---Katie on 8/11/06

One interpretation is that Christ "violently seized the Kingdom" at the most violent act of His Crucifixion.
---Jack on 8/11/06

One other thing I would like to say about this prayer warrior. This man fasted 40 days without any substance except water!!
---mima on 8/11/06

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