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First Born Child Killed

Why did God have to kill the first born son of non-believers for the passover? Why not the first born child, or why the child at all. Why not the adult non-beliver?

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 ---Cindy on 8/20/06
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do you believe your father kills his disobedient children for being un faithful?or does your father as my father allow accidents and age to overcome the body through natural living?
---earl on 10/31/07

(One of the Egyptian's God's were the crocodile and that is why all babies had to be offered in the Nile to the crocodiles, Mose's time.) Passover:The first born child is the first to inherit the parents genes etc. and that is also where the religious, spiritual, inheretance goes to first. So that another generation will not be born from non-believers against God. More info: Junia 6337
---Junia on 4/18/07

Have you tried asking Him yourself?
---Jack on 4/18/07

Debbie - You clearly said that "the infilling of the Holy Spirit doesn't happen automatically when you are raised with Christ". The initial infilling of the Holy Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is what produces tongues. Must be a terminology misunderstanding -- sorry.
---Helen_5378 on 8/24/06

I really don't know what you think I am saying and what you think I believe. I agree that when we are born again the Spirit of Christ comes to live in our heart. that is not the same thing as being filled with the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. That happens after salvationa nd can happen at any time. I must be speaking Greek or something for you not to understand what I am saying.
---Debbie on 8/24/06

2/... Also, Debbie, there is the infilling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongue that comes after a person is saved. That can come at any time, or in the case of those who do not believe in it, probably not at all.
---Helen_5378 on 8/24/06

Debbie - What you say is not truth. The Holy Spirit comes to live inside a Christian the very second that that person says yes to Jesus. Ephesians 4:30 says "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption". `
---Helen_5378 on 8/24/06

Kathr4453, I think you had better check your beeper because it isn't giving you the right signal. What I am saying is TRUTH! Also, the infilling of the Spirit doesn't happen automatically when you ae raised with Christ. It can happen immediately after being saved or some time later, but it doesn't automatically come with salvation.
---Debbie on 8/23/06

I would also like to add, if it were not for the fact that I have such a very sweet spirit, I could get really offended.(HaHa!!) Seriously, I have studied the Mormon doctrine and they are an offence to the Cross and to Jesus Himself. To see these Truths, you have look outside the box of traditional biblical doctrine ( not cultish doctrine) with spiritual eyes and be open to revelation by the Holy Ghost.
---Debbie on 8/23/06

What do you mean, How did I get born again? You know, there is only one way, How did you do it?
---Debbie on 8/23/06

Mrs. Morgan. We are sanctified through the Word of God, and with that SAnctification we are able to discerne false teaching, however close it may sound to Truth. We have a built in Beeper that goes off. Only those Indwelt with the Holy Spitit have this discernment. It's a gift from God. We are told to discern the spirits. 1st John
---kathr4453 on 8/23/06

Mrs. Morgan. You will have to read all of Debbie's post to understand what I am talking about. We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. That happened the day we, being crucified with Christ rose up together with Him Romans 8:11-13. We are not overshaddowed by the HS in the sense that Debbie is talking about. You will have to study "cults" in order to pick up onn the lingo. So much of what they say is close to what christians say...but not TRUTH. Next
---kathr4453 on 8/23/06

Yes Debbie, I would say this verse confirms what you say - Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.
---emg on 8/23/06

Debbie: How did you come to be Born Again.?
---kathr4453 on 8/23/06

kathr4453 , You will have to be clear on this, are you saying that the Holy Ghost doesn't overshadow people, isn't with them? Doesn't dwell in some? Where do you think the Holy Ghost is Kathr4453? I am not a Mormon, but I know that we are in the closing of the HOLY GHOST DISPENSATION, also known as the Church Age, and the Holy Ghost is WORKING with and in some cases, THROUGH God's "True" People. --Mrs. Morgan
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/23/06

Debbie - God the Father becomes our Father by adoption into His Son Jesus Christ through the finished work of the Cross.
---Helen_5378 on 8/23/06

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#2 I am a child of God, child of the King, heir to the kingdom, and Jesus is indeed my big brother, but more inportantly, He is my Lord and Savior and soon coming King. That doesn't make me a god, it just makes me a son, a joint heir with Christ. That doesn't decrease Jesus Headship or His deity. If we weren't ligitimate children of the Father of Heaven we would not have the birthright to inherit the kingdom. Study Mark 14:36 and Gal. 4:6,7. If you want more information, i got it.
---Debbie on 8/23/06

#1 My goodness, there is a lot of Debbie, Debbie, Debbie going on! I am a born again Christian, filled with the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. What I am saying and what God has revealed to me, is that when anyone is born again, they are actually born into the family of God, not adopted in. God the Father is actually our father, Abba Father.
---Debbie on 8/23/06

Anyone who says we are overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, this IS Mormon teaching. I'll bet there are many Mormons on line here that don't want to say they are Mormons.
Otherwise, "Houston, We have a problem!!!".
---kathr4453 on 8/23/06

To the Question:
Didn't Pharaoh's curse on Moses and Israel come back on He and Egypt. I believe if you read the story in full you will see this.

In other words, I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.

This was promised to Abraham and his seed right from the get go.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/06

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#2 Rust has found striking stuff and I think he is basically right to see Mormonism as in some sense an heir to the radical Puritan dissenters.It is one of the reasons Mormon post-Puritanism is so much more fun that Unitarian post-Puritanism, even though in a sense are both trying to get Puritanism without the Calvinism.

Despite their differences, Brigham Young and John Winthrop strike me as kindred spirits, and to read about seventeenth-century New Englanders is to spend time in familiar company.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/06

Some info on Mormonism & Calvinism:

For example, painted on the wall above the altar of the St. George Tabernacle is a huge all-seeing eye once upon a time painted over by over-zealous local members and then restored on the orders of Boyd K. Packer and the all-seeing eye was a popular symbol for nineteenth-century Mormons. Seventeenth-century Puritan meeting-houses also contained many an all-seeing eye staring down from the paintwork of the pulpit.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/06

Debbie - What you are saying seems to make us out to be little "gods". I am a child of the living God, bought with the Precious Blood of His Son Jesus Christ shed on the Cross for my sins. I am in Christ. Hallelujah.
---Helen_5378 on 8/22/06

Debbie: Do you believe you have been crucified with Christ. Do you see yourself as being Born Again at that time? We are a new creature "In Him" alone. He is our very life. You said :" but He has many sons that were born of the same Spirit and of the same Jesus". WHO ARE THESE GUYS?
Where are you getting this teaching?
Are they you and me? May I ask what faith you are. Maybe I can understand what you are saying if I knew that. I just want to understand. thanks Debbie!
---kathr4453 on 8/22/06

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Debbie ... # 3 But we are reborn, yes, through the Holy Spirit, but spiritually not physically.
So the way the HS works is different ... For Jesus, the HS created, with Mary, Jesus' earthly body
For us, no body-creation, but the HS creates a new-born spirit in us.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/22/06

Debbie ... # 2 You seem to say that Jesus was created by the Spirit overshadowing Mary, and so He was born, and that our being reborn is as a result of us being overshadowed in a similar way.
How can that be? The Spirit was involved to create in Mary, the physical baby Jesus, and so the HS created the human Jesus, not Jesus-God, because He existed already.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/22/06

Debbie ... # 1 Jesus is the Son of God, He is also God Himself, He is also the Word which was with God right from ever.
If you liken our son-ship to Jesus' son-ship, you do indeed make us out to be God's ourselves, and that is not biblical.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/22/06

Debbie "Alan8869,You are a son if you have been born again.All believers, that is, those that have been born of the Spirit, are sons of the living God. We have not actually been adopted, adopted in the Greek means "son placement." We are actually born of the Father, not adopted. His DNA so to speak, is also in us,we are truly rightful heirs of the kingdom".
Are you Mormon? Where is Jesus Christ in this statement? We are born Again through Jesus Christ. We are "IN CHRIST".
---kathr4453 on 8/22/06

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#2 I know what the Mormons believe and what I am saying is not what they believe. Jesus is God and He is the only Son that came from eternity past and will go thru eternity future. God has only one Son that came from heaven to earth and was born of a virgin, but He has many sons that were born of the same Spirit and of the same Jesus.
---Debbie on 8/22/06

#1 We are sons of God in the same sense as Jesus is a son of God pertaining only to the human side. Jesus was God, is God, and will forever be God. We on the other hand will never be God, and have never been God. We are sons because we are born of the Spirit of God. The same Spirit that over-shadowed Mary, over shadowed us when we yielded thru faith to Christ. Just as the seed of Christ was planted in her, the Seed of Christ is planted in our hearts to grow and mature into the image of Christ.
---Debbie on 8/22/06

Alan of the UK
With amy last statement re Mormons and this post on "Did Jesus Accept us" Calvinism point of view.
This is what I've been trying to show everyone that Calvinism and Mormonism are very close in their secret chosen.
Hope you get the commection.
"Before God could quicken a soul who was dead in sins, He must quicken him provisionally beforehand with Christ. God saw a full and complete victory over death and the devil, before He justified one sinner"
---kathr4453 on 8/22/06

alan8869: Your question to debbie:
Debbie ... "Christ was the first born son of many sons born to God"
I've never heard that before. Who are all the other sons?
This is also a Mormon belief. That Jesus was one of many spirit babies, and that He was the first born of the spirit babies.
There is alot of co-mingling of the Gospel with Mormonism today in the Church.
Hope that answers your question.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/06

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Debbie ... not the same kind of birth, surely?
Jesus was not "born-again" Would you put your son-ship as the same kind of son-ship that Jesus had?
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/22/06

Alan8869, You are a son if you have been born again. All believers, that is, those that have been born of the Spirit, are sons of the living God. We have not actually been adopted, adopted in the Greek means "son placement." We are actually born of the Father, not adopted. His DNA so to speak, is also in us, we are truly rightful heirs of the kingdom.
---Debbie on 8/22/06

Debbie ... "Christ was the first born son of many sons born to God"
I've never heard that before. Who are all the other sons?
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/21/06

Christ was the first born son of many sons born to God. His first born Son had to die so that all of us might be made sons of the living God. He shed His blood for our sins and it was applied to the door posts of our heart when we were saved. Just as the death angel passed over the homes with the blood on the door posts, so the death angel passes over us and we are freed from death and the grave by the blood of Jesus.
---Debbie on 8/21/06

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The answser lies in Egyptian religion and belief.
When you were buried in ancient Egypt, there was a ceremony called the opening of the mouth, essentially allowing the mummy to come alive. This had to be performed by the first born, or it would not work.
At one sweep, God denied the Egyptians their eternity, or how they would see it. That is why this plague, for the Egyptians, was the worst one of them all.
---mike8384 on 8/21/06

Cont.. Moses response "Thou hast spoken well, I will see your face no more" 10:28;29 Pharaohs response sealed the fate of his own firstborn son and the firstborn sons of all under his rule. The Father is not a man that He should lie, He had given his word and warning, both were disrespected and rejected. And the Fathers word will not return to Him void. It was spoken therefore it had to be done.
---josef on 8/21/06

When the Father instructed Moses to set the captive hebrews free He said He would harden Pharoahs heart that He might show forth the wonders of His power. Moses was instructed to "Say unto Pharoah, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my firstborn: Let my son go...and if thou refuse...I will slay thou son, [even] thy firstborn". Ex.4:22,23 Pharoahs response "Get thee from me...see my face more for in that day you shall die" Cont...
---josef on 8/21/06

isnt it true "ask anything and it shall be given unto you'(of true spirit value).so i did.a real father understands his children doesnt he?rightfully he will impart wisdom to those seeking it as plentiful as his son can understand it.
---earl on 8/20/06

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It appears to me that only firstborn are mentioned. There is no reference to gender in these scriptures. The firstborn were slaughtered from man to beast. Only those chosen, that had the blood of the lamb upon their household, were safe. I believe this excerpt from Exd 12:12 sums things up nicely:
...I will execute judgments--I am the LORD.
---Ryan on 8/20/06

Exd 12:12 'For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments--I am the LORD.
Exd 12:29 Now it came about at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of cattle.
---Ryan on 8/20/06

Exd 11:5 and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of the Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the millstones; all the firstborn of the cattle as well.
---Ryan on 8/20/06

The killing of the first-born son was representative of Christ's death on the Cross.
---Helen_5378 on 8/20/06

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There are many things I used to question about God and the Bible also but ya know what I found out? We just cant understand the mind of God. No matter how hard we try. We just have to trust God that he knows exactly what He's doing in the 'big picture' of things.
---sue on 8/20/06

oh moses why did you lead us out here to die?why why why why why why why why why.yes it started in a garden and not much has changed since , except now God has given us a way out,now we can return to the garden,but we gotta die first.
---tom2 on 8/20/06

thank God after a long life I personally have learned not to question anything of God.past present or furture.
---tom2 on 8/20/06

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