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You Get A Beer Or Me

My husband is an alcoholic. He drinks 2-3 days a week, 15 beers each day. He didn't drink 1 month and this brought him close to God. We were happy. He threatens divorce if I don't accept his drinking. How do I deal with this, and what is ok for me to say to him and whats going to only push him further?

Moderator - I love you, but I don't love your drinking. You can pick either me or the beer is one approach. Deep prayer and fasting is another.

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Alcohol is one of the worse demons one can have. It tears up homes,marriages,jobs. You name it. Your husband needs help. He is trying to bully you and make you second guess yourself. Don't give in. Let him know he needs help. The month he did not drink, he was probably too sick or hungover to take a drink. When he sobered up, he probably didin't even remember being close to you or God. An alcoholic is a terrible person to deal with. The threat concerns me also. This is verbal abuse. The next step is physical abuse. Don't stay too long and let this drunk take your life.
The Mod gave you a good answer also.Try that, as well. GBU
---Robyn on 5/11/11

To Whosoever has an ear to hear?

We must first ask ourselves why is it that we are unable to accept something (in this case His drinking).

If we have a Godly reason, to the best of our understanding, then we should stand fast in our understanding of the Word of the Lord. But we're also to always keep an open heart for the corrective Word of the Lord because our understanding may be off.


If it was God's Will for it to be in our lives, then He will not allow it to be anywhere else!!!
---Shawn.M.T on 10/13/08

Helen::Dear Lady::Please dont be so unbending.There is only One Jesus & HE can be found anywhere "Come to me all who are laboured & burdened & I will refresh you"
This includes Addictions.
---Emcee on 9/16/08

Helen ... 5 If you say that God will cure the addiction, you cause great distress, and also risk turning folk against God, or feeling defeated and worthless, or even "I can't be a Christian" because in their case that hasn't happened.
(Same as in my wife's case God did not take away her cancer, but gave her the grace to deal with it)
Now that seems to me to be putting down a stone that could cause someone to stumble.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/14/07

Helen ... # 4 It's clear this is a very complex problem, with no one answer. As you say, alcohol itself is not sinful, nor is its consumption (& I would say, even in public, provided no offence is caused) but drunkeness is sinful, as well as being dangerous to self and others.
The original question on this blog is an instance of someone who is definitely drinking far too much.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/16/06

Helen ... # 3 Many alcoholics drink considerable amounts, but don't exhibit any sign of being drunk. Others drink and appear drunk most of the time, but find ways of hiding it.
Other people can get drunk very frequently, but do not become alcohol dependant, nor alcoholics (although they will have severe health problems eventually).
Others remain alcoholics even after years of being dry, because their system retains that thing which, as with my friend, which can trigger the nightmare again.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/16/06

Helen ... # 2 I think that neither of us, or perhaps others, have understood that there are many different kinds of alcoholism.
I have said that alcoholism is not to do with having the aim of getting drunk, because that is not what I have seen in the one alcoholic with whom I have discussed the matter. But clearly it is different with you.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/16/06

Helen ... # 1 Our discussions have been confused by the fact that there have been at least three blogs running consecutively on the issue of alcohol, this one, another where the guy had a couple of drinks a few times a week, and another where it was the occasional single beer. I wonder whether sometimes questions are maliciously planted to get people wound up?
This guy here has obviously got a serious problem
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/16/06

Helen ... Maybe my friend was not totally delivered fromthe bondage of alcohlism, so she remained an alcoholic.
But her story should show you that your statement "an Alcoholic's whole aim is to get drunk and "drown their sorrows". is incorrect.
Maybe that was your situation, but it was not hers.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/16/06

Alan 8869ofUK - A person can be "off" alcohol but not delivered from it. Only Jesus Christ can set a person totally free from the bondages of Alcoholism. Your friend obviously was not delivered. But then when a drink is spiked it would make even the toughest drinker drunk. In answer to your other post, drunkenness is the sin which makes Alcoholism sin because an Alcoholic's whole aim is to get drunk and "drown their sorrows".
---Helen_5378 on 9/4/06

Helen ... Does the Bible actually say that alcoholism is a sin? I know it indicates drunkeness to be a sin, but as you must know, the two are completely different.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/3/06

Helen ... I am sorry that I annoy you, But you must have read my earler post about my friend who like you was completely "off" alcohol, and like you hated the smell of the stuff. Then one day, a "friend" spiked her non-alcoholic drink, so she unknowingly drank alcohol.
Did you read that story? Are you 100% sure that if that happened to you, your body would not be adversely affected as hers was ... and back to the craving?
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/3/06

Helen #3: What are you doing to help those still lost? You are judging people like me, when you have no right to. I at least am actively ministering to alcoholics and showing them a better way. You have no right to judge me for the way I minister to alcoholics. If all you do is sit on the blogs and judge me, then you are not ministering to alcoholics at all.
---Madison1101 on 9/1/06

Helen #2: For you to say I lack faith takes nerve. I do not lack faith in our Lord. I trust Him completely with my life. You have no idea what you are talking about when you judge me because I choose to participate in AA and find it a mission field where I can minister God's love and grace to those who are lost. I am not arrogant enough to believe that I have Jesus all wrapped up in a nice neat package. I go into the trenches and meet the alcoholics and help them find a better way with Jesus.
---Madison1101 on 9/1/06

Helen: I prayed and prayed for healing for over 10 years. I did not lack faith. I went to Christian ministers and counselors and was encouraged to see the alcoholism as a thorn that would be relieved daily. In a way it is a gift, because it means I am daily seeking the Lord for the strength to get through each day. Isn't that the way the Lord would have us, daily relying on Him for our sustenance? Didn't He provide manna for Israel in much the same way?
---Madison1101 on 9/1/06

3/... But I knew that I knew that man could not help me, so even though I was frightened I hung in there clinging on, at most times weakly, to Jesus. The victories that Jesus gives are just amazing. You see Jesus already conquered Alcohol and Alcoholism on the Cross. All I had to do was believe that for everything in my life and He sets me free. Madison, why settle for a thorn in the flesh when you can have total victory in Jesus.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

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2/... God says in 2 Timothy 4:3,4 that in the last days Christians "will not endure sound doctrine" "and be turned aside to fables". I hope and pray that you will not be one of the ones that has itching ears. Madison, for me it was very hard to trust only and totally in Jesus because I cannot see Him. There were times when it would have been easier to turn to man for help. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

Madison 1101 - Jesus is not going to heal you as long as you believe that your alcoholism is a thorn in the flesh. I believe that God calls alcoholism sin and Jesus took all of our sins on the Cross. There was no such thing as Alcoholism before the fall. The first drunk person in the Bible was Noah. Turn completely to Jesus Madison.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

2/... If Jesus does not heal me, then I am not healed. However I have an everlasting covenant with Him (Hebrews 13:20) so I have a guarantee of healing in Heaven. I am not content with recovery however. I have taken hold of Jesus and going for my healing which Jesus already purchased with His Blood on the Cross. I am a child of the Living God and I wish to live like His princess. Hallelujah.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

Madison 1101 - The "God" of A.A. can be anything you want him to be, am I correct on that? If the Jesus being portrayed is not the Jesus of the Bible, then it is another Jesus another gospel that is being presented -- let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8,9). The Jesus of the Bible is the One Who came into this world, became a Man i.e. took on human flesh, and died on the Cross for the sins of mankind, then rose from the dead. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

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Alan 8869ofUK - Just thought of something. Have a question for you -- What on earth would I want to go back to drinking something that almost killed me? Jesus does not set a person free for that person to go straight back into that sin. "Go and sin no more".
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

Emcee - What you said to Alan is correct. Nobody, and I mean nobody, can understand Alcoholism unless they have been one or are one. Unfortunately, the words "I understand" is mis-used although not intentionally.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

Karen - What you say absolutely thrilled me through and through when I read it. It is wonderful to read posts from somebody who sees things through God's eyes. Bless you.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

Sue - For those who do not know Jesus, then A.A. can help alcoholics, but they cannot heal them -- that is why A.A. teaches that you are forever in recovery. The nightmare continues until one comes to Christ. My purpose is never to point anybody to man, but to the Lord Jesus Christ and His death on the Cross for all sin and healing.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

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Madison 1101 - What you want is what you will get. If you seek the Lord daily for "relief from your obsession of alcohol" then all you will get is a bit of relief and a struggle. If you seek the Lord for total healing, then, from one who knows, He will eventually heal you completely. The Lord responds to our faith even though it may be as small as a mustard seed.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

Madison 1101 - You are just not getting it are you? You tell me again to study the 12 steps of A.A. I have already told you that the Lord Jesus Christ has healed me and set me totally free from Alcoholism. I no longer think of drinking and the craving is gone, as if I had never drunk at all.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

4/... I cannot even stand the smell of the stuff any longer. The biggest problem in this is that the church has apostasized to self-help, and no longer looks to the Cross of Christ for all it's problems and healing. The healings I have had from Jesus are as if I never drank, and as if I never smoked and I know that He is about to set me totally free from Valium addiction too. Hard to explain in few words.
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

3/... To even suggest that I should maybe try Alcohol again just to see if I am healed is trying to put temptation in my way, which you should not do. What you do not understand is that the Lord Jesus Christ has taken the whole craving for alcohol completely away from me....I now no longer even think of having a drink. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

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2/... According to what A.A. teaches people, a person who is an Alcoholic is one for life and is daily fighting to stay sober ok. However, when Almighty God steps in and saves and delivers a person, like myself, from Alcoholism that person is totally free forever from it's curse. (continued).
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

Alan 8869ofUK - For the last time, I was one of the worst alcoholics that this world has ever had ok. You are very much annoying me, as you are seemingly implying that what I am stating is not true. I suggest that it is you who does not know what an Alcoholic is. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 9/1/06

Emcee ... # 2 There are others who assert that for them Jesus helps them to cope with their continuing alcoholism, but that it remains.
She should not condemn those, who like my alcoholic and gambling addict friends, still have the addiction, and recognise that Jesus helps to keep them from temptation.
BTW, I am not an alcoholic as your blog would seem to imply.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/1/06

Emcee ... # 1 You are so right, no-one understands about alcoholism except the sufferer (and to a certain extent, those in whom the sufferer confides)
That is why I suggest to Helen that she should not assert that for everyone, throwing oneself on Jesus will necessarily destroy the alcoholism (as apparently has happened to her)
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/1/06

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As we see in Matthew 17:21 and Mark 9:29, there are some things that can only be overcome through prayer and fasting.
Deal with this according to 1 Peter 3:1,2. Respect him as your husband and let your Christian conduct work on Him. God will work through you and on him if you remain in alignment with His will.
What made him stop for a month?
---AlwaysOn on 9/1/06

To those ex A's:: "does a fish teach another fish to swim?_--NO or does a lost sheep not reTurn to the Fold--Leave Her alone & she will come home wagging her tail behind her.She knows who I mean.
---Emcee on 9/1/06

A friend of mine spoke of her undying love for her husband that was an alcholic and how they were divorced because of his drinking ect. She began to tell me of her chatholic beliefs and how she could drink only inmoderstion yet condemed her husband? anyway she explained about how the AA introducted her to an organisation that bares the name of God yet they make no bones of suggesting the God we believe in is not the reason for their approach.
---Carla5754 on 9/1/06

Alan Of Uk::No body really understands Alcoholism except the person to whom this malady belongs.That is why each has to deal with it in their own way.The main issue is to CONTRITION. The rest is to fight their way back to Normalcy. I commend ALL who are trying to reach that stage of acceptance.May your endeavours be blessed by Him who Knows All the truthful Answers,& will surely grant them.Your Faith has made you whole He always said.
---Emcee on 9/1/06

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Hi Helen, Just wondering: If AA and NA are so terrible and just a bunch of baloney, how would you explain the thousands of people NA and AA has helped? God bless.
---sue on 9/1/06

Karen: AA teaches that only by reliance on God can one be relieved of the obsession to drink. I have Christ and rely on Him solely for my recovery.

Study the 12 steps of AA. They teach reliance on God, and confession and repentance, and making amends and prayer and meditation.

AA provides me with social support and encouragement, as well as an opportunity to encourage others who are suffering. It is selfish to not share recovery with others.
---Madison1101 on 9/1/06

4. Whenever you answer, I notice, that you answer from God's perspective. I don't in anyway see you been unkind or mean to anyone. Your reasons are from holding on to Christ. In Morgan's case "she" has conquered it all, so she can stand on top looking down on everyone else and telling them, see "I" made it, and you sinners don't belong here but "me". I deserve what I earn. Two different ways of looking at things, from God's view, or our own view.
---karen on 9/1/06

3. Men teaches, "to hold on to your own strength and you will make it." If we try to stop cussing on our own, we continue to do it many times, when God takes it away, you don't even realize when you stopped doing it. It is the work of the Spirit in the believer that continues to change the old nature within us. On our strength we can do nothing. Sure, many times we fail, but we continue in faith and we do conquer those things. When God does something in our lives, it is always perfect.
---karen on 9/1/06

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2. Men look at things from a mens perspective and Christians should look at things from God's perspective. Take the A.A. program, they tell you, your a alcoholic forever, and that you have to stay away from drinking because it will harm not only you but many around you, Christ on the other hand tells you, "you cannot do it without my strength" believe in Me and you will conquer what is holding you back. God wants you to trust Him and hold on to Him for your very life,
---karen on 9/1/06

Helen, I think what you pointed out is correct. I know we have programs that help others in some way and A.A. does help many out there, but in reality, It is faith in Christ that realy pulls us away from bad things we had done before and have now put them behind us. A relationship with Jesus is a growing process and God takes away many things we were use to doing that were wrong. That is the growing in the spirit that Morgan and others just don't understand.
---karen on 9/1/06

Helen: I sought the counsel of a minister and a Godly, Christian woman when it came to my recovery from alcoholism. Both agreed that my alcoholism could be the thorn in the flesh as described in 2 Corinthians. I felt like a failure. Now, I realize that the Lord wants me daily to seek Him for my freedom from the curse of alcohol. If I were cured, I would not need to seek Him daily. I must seek Him daily to be relieved of the obsession.

This is not from AA, but from Godly, Christian counsel.
---Madison1101 on 9/1/06

Helen: I quote you "However, the mental abuse is taking a long time to heal if ever."
The 12 steps of AA is an arrow for me to Jesus.
As for a daily reprieve, I refer to 2 Corinthians where Paul discusses the thorn in the flesh. God does not guarantee He will heal all of our afflictions.
---Madison1101 on 9/1/06

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Helen ... I am sorry to have misjudged you.
But I still wonder if you really understand alcoholism? Have you ever drunk alcohol since thsoe nightmare days? Could you?
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/1/06

Helen::Hold on to your belief yes we do need His love & grace,which He gives freely, provided we do not willfully Or accidently stray& dislodge that grace.Your implicit trust in Him will produce the desired effect.Only dont go condemming others, cool it & use love instead.Win em over with love like he taught & asked us to.Good luck Helen.
---Emcee on 8/31/06

Madison 1101 - I would like to say that as long as you believe what A.A. says about Alcoholism i.e. you are on a daily reprieve & cannot be healed you will stay that way. If you ever decide to turn to Jesus for healing, and I hope and pray that you do, then you will find yourself totally healed and set free. I do not believe that Jesus will heal you while you cling to what A.A. says -- You must turn to Jesus totally. You must suffer awfully every day but Jesus does not want you to stay that way. :)
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

To anybody reading this who is struggling with Alcoholism -- If you are a born-again Christian I would encourage you strongly to place your whole faith and trust in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross. Believe that Jesus took your Alcoholism on the Cross and He will set you free totally.
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

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3/... I was so sick that it took a 9 week hospital stay to get the size of my liver back to normal. The Lord Jesus did protect me from harm though, and although I did not at the time know Who He was, He set me totally and completely free from all influence that the Alcohol had over me. I was free then and will remain free because Jesus Christ took my Alcoholism on the Cross. Those who are in A.A. are forever an alcoholic and fighting it themselves -- how sad.
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

2/... Is the picture getting a little clearer now Alan? My whole life revolved around getting the Alcohol and drinking it. I would sometimes ring a home delivery service and not answer the door, knowing that they would leave it there which they did, then I never paid the bill. I lived in disgusting filth, and in the end I knew I was dying -- my fingers smelled like rotting flesh. In hospital it was verified that I would be dead in 12 months if I continued to drink. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

Alan 8869ofUK - As soon as I left home early 1973 I began drinking and got drunk every time. I craved the alcohol so badly that I would have a bottle beside the bed. When I started to wake in the morning I would begin drinking and vomiting -- that went on for hours until I could finally keep a drink down, then I would drink every moment I was awake. I even carried the stuff with me in fancy bottles/flagons to try and disguise it. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

Madison 1101 - Contrary to what you state, I am healed totally and completely free from Alcoholism -- Jesus Christ healed me. What you are talking about is what A.A. teaches, that nobody will ever be healed. Well that is not what God says about it, and I choose to believe God over man.
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

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Madison 1101 - As Christians our command is to "go preach the gospel" and point people directly to the Cross of Christ and His finished work there. You are pointing me to the 12 steps of A.A. which is grossly wrong. You should be pointing me to Jesus.
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

Madison 1101 - What you are claiming is a whole lot of big baloney. Jesus Christ is the only One Who can heal anybody. How dare you claim Christianity and some man's principles of A.A. together. You need to get on your face before the Lord and repent. Either Jesus Christ heals me or I am not healed pure and simple. I do not suffer false doctrine lightly.
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

Alan 8869ofUK - Excuse me! I do not appreciate what you said at all about me. I was an out and out alcoholic right on death's door. Your statement has made me angry. I know what it is to live an Alcoholic mere "existence".
---Helen_5378 on 8/31/06

I have found that one cannot be healed of alcoholism totally, but instead be given a daily reprieve. As I work the 12 steps, which are Biblical principles, I gain healing and faith in Jesus, and His Word. This allows me to share my faith in Christ with others I meet in AA.

Obviously, Helen has not done the entire 12 steps. By working all 12 steps, one gains healing from the abuses of childhood.
---Madison1101 on 8/31/06

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helen ... We are indeed talking about smething different. I don't think you know what alcohism is.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/31/06

Emcee - Without Jesus Christ in my life I would not survive. I need Him every minute of every waking hour, and every moment that I am asleep I need Him too.
---Helen_5378 on 8/30/06

Alan 8869ofUK - I truly do believe that I am no longer an Alcoholic because Jesus took that on the Cross. However, I would never be so foolish as to go back to something that the Lord has set me totally free from, therefore I will never drink alcohol again. A.A. says I am an alcoholic for life; Jesus says "no" to that -- He has set me free.
---Helen_5378 on 8/30/06

Helen::Deep inside me I had a feeling that deep within you was a real woman deeply hurt.I am glad the past is behind you & I hope the rest of your journey will bring you peace Love & understanding in Him whom you have the greatest trust.
---Emcee on 8/30/06

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ALL healing comes from Jesus (By his stripes, we are healed).

Chemical or medical science may be tools in the hands of skilled people, as isthe skill of a therapist, but it all comes from Jesus.

This is not to say that my SUV can be my "higher power"; that is being delusional. Likewise is judging a whole organization due to personal experiences.

Good and bad exist in all organzations, including the church. We should not characterize a whole group, AA, due to one part.
---John_T on 8/30/06

Helen ... Can you safely drink alcohol now? If you can, truly you are are no longer an alcoholic. If you cannot, and even if you drank unknowingly, would relapse again, you are still an alcoholic.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/30/06

Helen and Jack-- AA does not present JESUS..neither the true one, nor "another" one. They do not use scripture. They use the term "higher power" or "God", BECAUSE they don't CARE what your religion is or who you believe in. That doesn't sound very "cult-like" to me. Their only goal is helping alcoholics achieve and maintain sobriety, which they do well. Google "12 Steps". As a Christian, you have already practiced most if not all of them.
---Donna2277 on 8/29/06

Donna2277 - When I was going to A.A. back in 1981-82, "God" to the people was anything you liked. One man had a TRAM as his "god". A.A. like cults is possibly built taking Scriptures right out of context. I am truly horrified at the number of Christians that say it is ok. It is Jesus that we must exalt.
---Helen_5378 on 8/29/06

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**The Jesus that is presented at A.A. & Al-Anon is not the Jesus of the Bible, but at most another Jesus another gospel.**

The same thing can be said for the Jesus presented by most pop-evangelical churches, if some of the questions and postings on these blogs are any indication.
---Jack on 8/29/06

AA is not psychology or psychiatry. It began as a Christian program. The 12 steps are quite Biblical. It doesn't replace a personal faith in Jesus, nor does it discourage a reliance on Jesus for salvation or deliverance from alcohol. I was employed in a hospital-based alcohol rehab program that used AA...saw Jesus deal with several there. Fact is, no other program has shown better results.(No "Christian" program either). Al-anon aids family members trying to help alcoholics.
---Donna2277 on 8/28/06

4/... Jesus came to set the captives free. The greatest problem is man looking to man for help... man cannot get inside another person's head. The Jesus that is presented at A.A. & Al-Anon is not the Jesus of the Bible, but at most another Jesus another gospel. We must turn back to the Cross and turn these poor suffering souls to the Cross where Jesus Christ can truly set them totally free. We are deceived if we think man can do what only Jesus can do.
---Helen_5378 on 8/28/06

3/... To walk by faith is at times very difficult, and would be easier to give up & turn to a Psychologist or Psychiatrist for help. Have been that route too & I know they cannot truly help anybody - it's all text book. Zlcoholism is truly the darkest depths of despair that any human being can sink into -- there is no darkness greater. If we do not give Jesus to these people, then many of them will just die anyway and they will die lost. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 8/28/06

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2/... I did go to A.A. but even though I did not know the Lord it did not help me. I did know that I would never drink again & that was a working from the Lord. Jesus had His hand on me even then and set me free from the Alcoholism totally. However, the mental abuse is taking a long time to heal if ever. I do know that now that I am born-again that it would be terribly wrong for me to seek the help of man. Jesus died on the Cross for my abuse and He is the only One Who can heal me. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 8/28/06

Alcoholism is not a character flaw - I mean the baby would be born that way. No, in my case Alcoholism came with my very first drink. I could not handle life due to mental abuse, so the day I left home I wanted Alcohol that night. It helped drown out all the pain, horror and torment of the abuse and control. I finally, when I realised I was dying, got into hospital for a 9 week stay, which was a very long time. God saved my life I now know, but at the time I did not know Him. (continued...)
---Helen_5378 on 8/28/06

Is it Biblical for a wife to submissively stand by and watch her husband commit suicide? If you are to lose him, would you rather it be by divorce (if that's what he insists upon)? Or by death. He's not motivated to quit drinking. Who can "motivate" him if you are enabling him? If you do nothing, you make it easy for him to continue an ungodly addiction that will ruin BOTH of you. Give him an ultimatum. Let him hit bottom (He will) Pray. (Al-anon can help).
---Donna2277 on 8/28/06

Emcee ... we almost if not wholly agree. Yes the flaw was originally brought on by their own actions, but once it has arrived, it is a medical flaw, and cannot be eradicated, only lived with by the avoidance of the thing to which the person is addicted.
As you say, Anons have the right approach by saying folk must face up to their addiction and acknowledge they need help and have to change.
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/28/06

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Alan OF UK::Most people who are addicts do not consider themselves to be Addicted to the addiction.They think its normal & just a craving.We on the other hand know what we see.How we deal with it is the all important issue.Al Anon has the right approach because the person has to declare that they have the addiction & realise they need help.Acknowledgement is imperative.I would not call it a character flaw but I would call it a social flaw, brought on by themselves.
---Emcee on 8/28/06

Jack . I wonder how many of those who say it's just a character flaw, have actually spoken to an alcoholic? How many have been with a dying person, whose prayer for healing has not been answered & if so, have they said that the person died because their faith was inadequate?
It's easy to say of someone else "Oh theri faith was not enough" or "They weren't a Christian in the first place"
---alan8869_of_UK on 8/28/06

**She passed out and woke with a terrible craving for more. Fortunately Sally was with some real friends.**
This demonstrates the physiological, biochemical basis of alchoholism, and proves it it not a character flaw, as some people simplisticly think.
I wonder how many people here are aware of the specifically Christian origin of AA and 12-step groups?
---Jack on 8/28/06

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