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Jewish Or Christian Claims

Since the Church is heir to the promises of God through Abraham that He would bless all peoples, how then can the Jews have any special claim more than anyone else?

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 ---David on 9/29/06
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delusion: "My dad was a saved man of God, thus I his child am too. But God says, your dad Abraham being godly, does not without your own obedience make you godly too, for each soul must freely choose me even as your father Abraham chose me and to follow my ways. Else you remain disobedient, but your father obedient. I am no repector of persons says the Lord, each soul is rewarded according to their own works which he has done, the father for his own, and the child for his own, whether good or bad.
---Eloy on 2/6/08

delusion:"My dad was a saved man of God, thus I his child am too."But God says, your dad Abraham being godly, does not without your own obedience make you godly too, for each soul must freely choose me even as your father Abraham chose me and to follow my ways. Else you remain disobedient, but your father obedient. I am no repector of persons says the Lord, each soul is rewarded according to their own works which he has done, the father for his own, and the child for his own, whether good or bad
---Eloy on 2/6/08

"To the Jews, Jesus said, You all are from your father who's the devil. Not being for the appearance, a Jew, nor the appearance in flesh, circumcision, but the hidden in whom a Jew, and circumcision of heart, in spirit. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek: for you all are one in Christ Jesus. And if Christ's, then are you all Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Jn.8:39,44+ Rm.2:28,29+ Gal.3:27-29.
---Eloy on 2/6/08

Doug, What about the 'rock cut out w/o hands' in Dan. 2, and Dan. 8:14, and Matt. 21:43, and John 3 (even Jews had to be born again), and the 10 Virgins prophecy, and the group found in Rev. 12:17 who have the testimony of JESUS? When their time was up and they refused God's condition(s) then it was OVER for Israel and the Jews--PERIOD! Paul was wrong, there are not two ways for salvation, 1 for Jews and another for Gentiles!
---Dr._Rich on 2/4/08

They really can not. In Ephesians Paul asserts that Gentiles, once "with the Missiah, excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and foreigners to the covenant of the promise, are now fellow citizens with the saints and members of God's household. [Eph. 2:19] Paul was emphasizing the unity Jews and Gentile have in Christ Jesus.In Revelation you can read Some Jews were denounced as the "synagogue of Satan" because they opposed Christians.
---catherine on 2/4/08

Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
---Bruce5656 on 2/4/08

thanks ryanz and your right, and that spirit is Christ who also is the whole Word of God John 1:1 called the Bible..and in it are all that is written to describe Him. The 10 Moral Laws and the Civil Laws including all instructions etc..His 10 Holy Laws are a transcript of His Holy Character which we need to conform to and that is why we need to obey the 10Laws which is Christ Himself..
---jana on 5/7/07

jana, I believe I have discovered where we disagree. You are confining Jesus to just the 10 C's. He is the fulfilment of the entire law, not just the 10 C's. He is the law of the Spirit for the letter of the law kills but the SPirit brings life. The spirit encompasses the entire law, not just the 10 C's.
---Ryan_Z on 5/5/07

thanx Ryanz:Then read from Acts 13:39, then Gal 3:19,24 then Rom 7:7..3:20,28, then Gal 3:19,24, 2:16,take note of 17,18,19,20. The law spoken of as the Mosaic law which could not justify us by works. It is Christ the 10 commandment law in us who can. Yes we do understand what law written in hearts mean.
---jana on 5/4/07

jana, here are the verses that say no man is justified by law: Acts 13:39, Romans 3:20; 3:28, Galations 2:16; 3:11; 5:4. No man is justified by law becasue no man can keep the law, save one, the Lord Christ Jesus. God has written HIs law on the tablets ofg our heart, you don't actually think there are words written on the heart do you? The meaning of this scripture is that Christ resides in our heart through HIs HOly SPirit.
---Ryan_Z on 5/4/07

Ryanz: you are evading my question. Supply text 2your statement. U misunderstood the different laws and misunderstand text. Christ is the Word, John1:1 made flesh John1:14. Read it Ryanz. If He is the Word made flesh, then He is the Whole Bible and the 10commandment Law: I await for you answer if any...dont be sad for me, be sad for yourself and get deep understanding of the different laws. Moses Laws/cer.laws, civil laws 600 of them and the 10 Holy Laws of God
---jana on 5/4/07

As a converted jew to Christianity, or being a fulfilled Jew I can tell you that Jews are God's chosen people and always will be, that is why we are constantly being told to support Israel and the Jews. Are they all going to Heaven? is a good question because in the words of Jesus,"no man goes to the Father lest he goes thru me.
---Doug on 5/2/07

I do not know what you people are talking about. But I will tell you, that we are not capable of keeping God's laws within ourselves. We need God to help us. We need God's help.
---catherine on 5/2/07

#1 jana, it is sad tha you would look to a ministry of death engraved on stones as your guide when we are told that we are under the ministry of the spirit. If you are a Christian with the indwelling of the spirit then you should be looking to your renewed heart and the spirit that lives within you.
---Ryan_Z on 5/2/07

#2 jana, We are to put the tutor aside once we receive Christ. What makes you so special that the law can work on you and it was unable to work in Israel for thousands of years? I also find it funny that the new Ryan and I have the same line of thought.
---Ryan_Z on 5/2/07

the only special claim that a Jew has is that they are the race that God used to bring in the salvation of all people. Since Jesus came through the Jews they do have a special place, but the promise extends to all people that believe and trust in the Name Jesus Christ. Who is the fulfillment of the law and true Israel.
---Jared on 5/2/07

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Ryan: Christ said we are completely incapable to conform to God's law: Can you please supply us with this text please? The Tutor of the law u mentioned is the cer/laws made obselete if you study it carefully.Also called LOM,it defined the earthly temple services n all the special annual sabbaths. Remember Ryan, Christ is the law, the Word made flesh John1:14 and the Sabbath. If you dont keep law, then u dont have Christ, 4He is the law.And yes, I look 2the 10Cs for my guide,to conform to His image.
---jana on 5/2/07

Frankly, David, I agree with you.

The whole point of John the Baptist's words is that mere physical descent from Abraham does you no spiritual good.
---Jack on 4/28/07

#1 jana, your use of the scripture in John 14:15 implies we must keep all of the Mosaic law. When Christ says this, is it possible He is referring to the laws He gave in the New testament as the most superior of all laws & the new law He directly gave to His apostles: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength & love your neighbor as yourself & to love each other as He has loved us?"
---Ryan on 10/5/06

#2 jana, Is it not these laws that are written on the heart of the Christian? Or do you have it written on your heart to kill witches and stone rebellious children? Christ taught that the weightier provisions of the law are faithfulness, justice & mercy.
---Ryan on 10/5/06

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[1] David, others: WHERE does Scripture say that Gentiles are heirs of the _physical promises_ to Israel, rather than salvation only?! Have you not read Romans 11:25-29? "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery -- so that you will not be wise in your own estimation -- that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; (26)and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, 'THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,... [cont.]
---danie9374 on 10/5/06

JIM: #2
The Major point is this: When I'm home, she doesn't get up on the sofa at all. How much MORE, when Jesus Christ is at Home in our Heart. He lives within 24/7. He wants to have a personal relationship with us, Conforming us to His Image. The Law can't do that, only He can. He takes our lives far beyond keeping law. He came to bring us into Glory. John 17.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/06

JIM: It would seem that mine would? Now she's been taught to stay off the sofa. Well she knows to do that when I'm there, but when I leave, she gets on the sofa. When I come home, I see her slithering off, looking at me out of the corner of her eye, hoping I didn't see. What do you call that. If she knows she's going to get in trouble, she certainly has more going in there then my plants do!

Point is, You can teach an animal right from wrong, with your rules. How much more are we as Humans.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/06

[2] HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.' (27)'THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.' (28)From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; (29)for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
---danie9374 on 10/5/06

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kathyr, the letter of the law u mentioned is of the ceremonial laws written inabook not stone and abolished and yes I do have conscience and we all have common senses too to know and understand what God is saying here. He simply said, "If you love me, obey my command" Do you find that hard to understand? Of cause not. if I may say, many are so disobedient and rather follow mans teachings it seems. As He said, "If you love me"...Do you? If yes, then obey Him.
---jana on 10/5/06

thats true Ryan but what motivates that love? It's obedience to His laws.John14:15 If you love me, OBEY MY COMMANDMENTS.Do we disobey Him? Because of the hardness of their hearts, God saidHeb8:10 "I will write my laws in their hearts." We all are obeying God's laws but only a few obey them all. He said, you break one of these laws, you break the rest.Laws are a transcript of His character we are to conform to.
---jana on 10/5/06

#2 jana, They are a tutor but once you have learned your need for Christ and He has accepted you, circumsized your heart & made you a new creature than you no longer need the tutor. Keep in mind that Paul said the ten commandments are 'A ministry of death engraved on stone tablets." is that the ministry you wish to follow? Don't be like Israel and stumble over the stone of stumbling.
---Ryan on 10/4/06

#1 jana, I would than in turn ask you, when you need God's help do you turn to the ten commandments? When you pray do you pray to the ten commandments? When you need to be comforted by God do you turn to the ten commandments? The ten commandments are not for those in Christ Jesus they are for the sinner to show him his sin.
---Ryan on 10/4/06

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#4 jana, Let us not forget that the law was not given to the church it was given to the nation of Israel because of their transgressions. As the church if we want to look to any teaching for guidance as a Christian than I propose we look to the Be-Attitudes. God bless you sister.
---Ryan on 10/4/06

#3 jana, So we see that it is not through any potential or power that we have that makes us righteous or gives us the ability to adhere to His law, it is only through the power of God's Holy Spirit that we have love & faith and are deemed righteous before God.
---Ryan on 10/4/06

#2 jana, Christ has now given us the answer, LOVE. Through love we fulfill the law but not even this love is of our own ability, the only way to have love is through the power of the Spirit who dwells in the heart of every believer, try to violate a commandment and practice love. So it is not the law that we look to for guidance because that has passed away and we now have a more glorious covenant through Christ Jesus.
---Ryan on 10/4/06

#1 jana, I will be more than pleased to explain. The law was not abolished by Christ it was fulfilled however, to this day when Moses is read a veil lies over your heart. Jesus taught that we are completely incapable of conforming to God's law because of our flesh, so we are than stuck with a paradox. If we attempt, through our own ability, to keep the law we than become condemned by the law but if we do not keep the law we are condemned to death.
---Ryan on 10/4/06

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kathr4453....Please explain how an animal has a conscience?You mean to tell me that if a dog bites you he will feel bad for doing it 2 days later.
---JIM on 10/4/06

jana: Are you saying you have no conscience? Are you an animal? Even they have a conscience.So you're saying if we don't live by the letter of the Law written in stone to be read every day to remember what it says, because we are stupid or something, then out of our stupidness and animalistic less than human mind we will sin? Is this what you are saying?Because I just don't understand what the problem is here.Does Jesus Live in your Heart?Your Heart is your conscience? Eithere you have one or you don't.
---kathr4453 on 10/4/06

Ryan, your saying that the law then is done away and I can do anything wrong I want. Sin is the transgression of the law and it still stands today. Can you go kill anyone today? No. Why? Cos is wrong. Why is it wrong? I leave you to answer that brother. The 10 commands God gave us still stands today.
---jana on 10/4/06

A major false doctrine today professes that God favors the Jews, they are the chosen, and God is a prejudical racist and a respecter of persons. But the Bible teaches that a true Jew is one who is a Jew in heart, regardless of their race or nationality, and not one outwardly by physical ancestorship. Christ Jesus was a Jew, and by becoming born-again, the Christian convert becomes a Jew. Please read John 8:33-47; Acts 17:26; Romans 2:28,29; Galatians 3:27-29.
---Eloy on 10/3/06

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Ryan: The Remnant are those who are part of the believers in Jesus Christ. Not prophets. But yes, you certainly couldn't be a prophet without being one who believed in the redeemer. The Prophets were those who fortold of the coming redeemer. That is in Hebrews 1. Now it says in Hebrews 1 that Jesus Himself has spoken to us. What did He speak? He said I AM the resurrection. He said, you must be Born Again. How are we Born Again. Do you know? That message has never changed. It was promised in Genesis 3:15.
---kathr4453 on 10/3/06

Ryan: True Baptism is Romans 6. Buried with him and raised a new Creation.
When Abraham offered Isaac, Heb 11, he saw a vision of the resurrection life. He understood. Water baptism doesn't save any more then just being circumcised. We must put off the old, and be raised New in Christ.
---kathr4453 on 10/3/06

Ryan.There is and always was the True Israel.The sign of the covenant with Abraham was circumcision,representing resurrection life. The remnant are and were those who waited for the redeemer.True circmcision was always of the heart.
Many today argue baptism saves you/same argument. Baptism also represents this resurrection life. Read Colossians 2 to get a clearer picture. Abraham looked for a city made WITHOUT hands. As Born Again Christians we too look and earnestly await the New Creation. Romans 8.
---kathr4453 on 10/3/06

Ryan: Romans states there is still a remnant according to the election of Grace. It also states that Israel was blinded for a the Gentiles could be grafted in. Then it will turn back to Israel, and there up next. How much more the natural branches!
It is also important for Gentiles not to be arrogant against Jews, in God's plan. *
Oh how unsearchable are His ways past finding out.
Romans 11
---kathr4453 on 10/3/06

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"Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspringnot only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations."[c] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believedthe God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were." (Rom 4:16-17)
---Okebaram on 10/3/06

kathr4453, I think it is important to point out that there was a remnant within Israel that did cleave to faith, we call them prophets.
---Ryan on 10/3/06

kathr4453, I belive we are saying the same thing. Israel did not continue in faith at Mt, Sinai, instead they turned to law believing they could prove their righteousness to God through works. This disobedience was their request for law. Faith is the only way to righteousness in the eyes of God. Israels request for law was a denial of faith.
---Ryan on 10/3/06

Ryan: Romans 4:13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
---kathr4453 on 10/3/06

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kathr4453, Abraham had everything to do with Mt. Sinai. Isreal did not obey God at Mt Sinai. God told Moses to tell Israel to "Obey my voice and keep my covenant." Israel instead turned their back on faith and requested law, God's Law, this law was given to Moses but it is God's law. Read Jeremiah 7:21-24. I am in no way condemning or slandering Israel I am stating the facts of Israels role in God's plan.
---Ryan on 10/2/06

Ryan: Mt Sinai is the Law of Moses. Abraham had nothing to do with it. Read Hebrews 12. We are now come to Mt. Sion. The New Covenant. Read Hebrews 11 and see all those in the Hall of faith who are there, in the Heavenly Jerusalem. You know not what you speak to your own distruction!
Also read Romans 11. There up next!
---kathr4453 on 10/2/06

Our salvation came through the Jews. They are like are spiritual parent. However, we are now given equal access to God's presence, without discrimination. But then since God has given us His all, there isn't room to give any tribe more since he already gave all all.
---Okebaram on 10/2/06

Israel is an obstinate people that continually relies on their own counsel and evil hearts. The main purpose of the earthly seed of Abraham was that through them the Messiah of the world would be born (This is Israels special claim). Let us not forget that at Mt. Sinai Israel did not listen to God and obey the covenant with Abraham. Israel transgressed from the covenant of faith and did not become a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.
---Ryan on 10/2/06

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John, the New Covenant IS the fulfilled Old Covenant: one and the same. Israel is a heir to the physical blessings of Abraham, but what I must stress is that we don't have to observe their festivities as non-Israelite Christians.
---Okebaram on 10/2/06

As always, tis become a good excuse for Jew hating, as the history of anti-semitism shows.
If you actually read what Paul says, not what the church teaches, we are attached to the Jews, as we do not have a right to the promises naturally.
---mike8384 on 10/1/06

The church is not the only heir. The church has now been included with the ushering in of the New Covenant. But the Old Covenant still stands. The new one was introduced to include the Gentiles and since the law was fulfilled, to introduce the new spiritual priesthood that abolished the ordinances and handwriting. Rom. 11 explains we are the wild
branches grafted into the rootstock with the natural branches.
---john on 10/1/06

greetings,abraham was asked to carry the torch of truth and he did .in the day that jesus revealed the Father the jewish rulership refused to acknowledge jesus as the son of god and stated moses we know but jesus we do so doing the torch of truth is now transfered to the people who have upstepped their religious so doing any people who do not recognize the teachings of jesus as the revelation of his Father has failed in their quest and serves a primitive religion
---earl on 9/30/06

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Sometimes I'm saddened by the supposition of many evangelists today that God is all about the physical Jews and their customs, that we gain spiritually by observing their festivities, etc. We, as Christians, form the spiritual Israel and are THE descendants of Abraham. God loves the Jews very much, as He does everyone else. However, His end-time covenant is with the spiritual Israel, through the power of Christ who makes us descendants of Abraham, which is made up physical Jews, Greek, and all nations
---Okebaram on 9/30/06

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