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He Committed Suicide

What do you think about a suicide? On the job, this person killed himself and told us to pray and ask God to forgive him. Do you think he got saved?

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 ---jamea7734 on 10/16/06
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My mother-n-law was in a deep depression. I knew it but I just didn't know how to help her. I would pray, talk to her about God. (she has been a Christian 5 years). Then she asked how many pills it would take for her to end her life. She said there is no way out. I reminded her what the bible says, that God is the only way out. I know how Satan works, and it is through one's mind. You people act like it is sad, but no big deal if one takes their life because you think their with God.
---Rebecca_D on 2/25/08

Helen; I totally agree but if a person commiting suicide gets saved from their cries, then they won't go through with the suicide. For he will have a new heart, and if this person still commits suicide, then he didn't get saved.
---Rebecca_D on 11/13/06

A person who genuinely is crying out to Jesus for salvation is being drawn by the Spirit of God. God never turns anybody away who cries to Him.
---Helen_5378 on 11/9/06

We may not know the person's final cry, but God said unless his spirit draw a person to him, they can call upon his name all they want, it wont' do them a bit of good. Plus God also says that he doesn't hear sinners praying unless they are repenting of their sins. And if a person takes their life, they can't ask God to forgive them once they take their life, cause they'll be dead.
---Rebecca_D on 11/8/06

Rebecca: Your question does not dignify an answer. I replied to Helen's polite question with an explanation of how I help care for the patients in a psychiatric hospital by running group therapy sessions for all of them.
---Madison1101 on 11/6/06

God is a righteous judge He weighs all things on His scales. Suicide is a hard call if a persons last words were God forgive me,save me then they made it. If a person is not in their "right mind" God weighs that. But I dont advocate suicide many that do it just to get away and are still thinking some what clear, planned it sadly many have sentenced themselves. Thou shall not Kill, & Jesus said we must love ourselves. It is a sad thing, but take hope we do not know a persons final cry.
---Jeanne on 11/6/06

Helen: I am a therapist doing group and recreational therapy at a psychiatric hospital. Every other weekend, I work with every unit in the hospital, and try to get every patient involved in my group therapy sessions and my rec therapy sessions. Some groups I do twice in one day, but by the end of the weekend, I work with each unit twice a day, for 45 minutes at a time. The hospital has from 75 to 100 patients at a time.
---Madison1101 on 11/6/06

Madision; are you the only one working? I know what the bible says about Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. He attacks the minds of people with everything. We get a pain in our side and right then we think, oh no what's wrong. Satan doesn't call all mental illness. Eplisipy, the bible calls that demon possessed. Thoughts of the mind comes from the heart.
---Rebecca_D on 11/6/06

Madison1101 - Hi. ("..this past weekend, I took care of about 75-100 patients"). Curious, that is all. How did you take care of that many patients? I mean, in what sense and what setting? I am only asking because that is an enormous amount of people. Bless you. :)
---Helen_5378 on 11/6/06

Rebecca, I hope your mother-in-law doesn't suffer from the same side affect I did on Paxil : suicidal thoughts. Everyone's system is different in reacting to any kind of medication. Hope she is doing well.
---Rivka on 11/5/06

Don't let that old snake tear you dear ladies apart, again. Let it go, let it go, let it go.
---Anonymous on 11/5/06

Madison, I often see your credentials questioned. I wonder if folk realize that LCSW's sometimes supervise psychologists working under them. Your degree & licensing are highly esteemed. I personally know people with PhD's in psych who've returned to get their master's in social work and then become licensed because a master's in social work is worth more, is more highly regarded and a license even more so. That you're also a Christian sweetens your qualifications IMHO. ;)
---AlwaysOn on 11/5/06

Rebecca: I don't take care of 2-3 patients. I am trained in mental health, and licensed to practice social work, and this past weekend, I took care of about 75-100 patients, which I do every other weekend. I am certainly more qualified than you are to speak on mental health.
---Madison1101 on 11/5/06

So then, you are finally admitting that a person can actualy committe sucicide as a resault of mental illness and consequently not being dammed to hell.
---Bruce5656 on 11/5/06

Rebecca -- she was very ill. It was her chice to make... whether she got help.. or not. I knew that suicide was all but inevitable if she kept going the way she was. But you cannot "force" a person to seek help from a doctor or a pastor. I believe she could have been saved had she accepted the help she so obviously needed.
---Donna2277 on 11/5/06

Rebecca ... What makes you the expert?
Madison has actually seen these folk, and I have nearly been in that situation of illness.
---quent5969_the_Scot on 11/5/06

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Madision; just because you take care of 2-3 paitents doesn't make you an expert on mental illness. Donna; exactly, it was her choice to make, it was her free will to take her life. also a person can't say oh Lord save me and expect God to save them. the spirit has to draw that person in, convict them of their sins. and if Christ was convicting them of their sins, they wouldn't go through taking their life. Bruce; I answered your question. Rivka; My mother-n-law has been on Paxil for the past 13 years.
---Rebecca_D on 11/5/06

The world enjoys labeling people with negative names: She's crazy; he's wacked out; she's bonkers; he's cook-a-loo in the noodle; she belongs in a looney bin; he's insane; she's psycho. They totally disrespect the mentally impaired person and discount all that they say like they aren't even human. Sadly some so-called Christians misbehave likewise derogatorily against the mentally ill. But we are not supposed to do so, we are suppose to minister and help them even as Christ ministers to the sick.
---Eloy on 11/5/06

Part 3: As for those Christians who look down on those of us who take meds for a certain mental illness, all I can say is I believe God has given wisdom to doctors in this day and age who can create medication that can help in certain chemical imbalances. Thank God we live in 21st century where science has improved to do this.
---Rivka on 11/4/06

Rivka ... I answered you on the other blog that you had not been there ... but see here that you clealry have.
I am sorry.
but do you not know that when you are in that suicidally minded state, you are not able to consider asking others whether what you KNOW is true or not?
Maybe you did not reach those depths, and were only considering yuorself and your comfort, but beleive me, at the very lowest, you do KNOW everyone will be better off without you
---quent5969_the_Scot on 11/4/06

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Bruce: I believe that with an Alzeimers' patient or dementia patient the risk of accidental death by overdose, or some other accident is higher than a planned suicide.

Schizophrenics sometimes get command hallucinations, which could include a command to kill oneself.
---Madison1101 on 11/4/06

All this talk about medication, being in right mind on it and not in right mind off it brings up something. I've been diagnosed as bi-polar and was on Paxil for 9 years along w/other meds. I struggled with suicidal throughts and got weaned off Paxil earlier this year. If you read the side effects for Paxil, it says MAY INCREASE SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. My suggestion is to stay away from Paxil because it can cause a person to not be in their right mind.
---Rivka on 11/4/06

Part 2: Since I've been off Paxil, I no longer have these thoughts of ending my life. I still take certain meds and see my bi-polar condition as no different from a diabetic. For some reason my body stopped producing serotonin, a chemical in our brain we are born with, that induces sleep a long time ago. My meds, taken before bedtime, works like a charm in getting rest.
---Rivka on 11/4/06

I've worked with many patients suffering from Alzheimer's and various dementias. Suicide has never been a concern with these people, because their ability to plan, and carry out a plan is much impaired. In later stages they do not even know the functions of common objects. It may have happened, but I've never heard of it. Accidents are a bigger concern.
---Donna2277 on 11/4/06

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"When someone loses their mind due to alzteimers, if they were saved before they got this disease they are with God "

What if that person - the Christian suffering from demensia or alzteimers - does something drastic like committ sucicide?
---Bruce5656 on 11/4/06

My question to Rebecca did not post. I am resending it. I would appreciate your input.
---Bruce5656 on 11/4/06

Madison, you certainly have had your share of heartache and challenges with your family. How blessed they are to have someone like you to understand & love them with Christ's love & compassion. Reading you in other blogs, I know you have had some issues in your own life. May God continue to supply encouraging people to uphold you as well.
---Linda on 11/3/06

"When someone loses their mind due to alzteimers, if they were saved before they got this disease they are with God those who weren't saved aren't with God."

What if, as a result of their demensia or alzteimers they do something drastic like committ sucicide?
---Bruce5656 on 11/3/06

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Is my question to Rebecca re the possibilitiy of a person suffering from demensia or alzteimers doing something drastic like committing sucicide off base or is it a real possibility in extreem cases?
---Bruce5656 on 11/3/06

Linda: My mother has it, my brother who passed away had it, and my surviving brother has it, as does his son, my nephew. I know what it is like to be in a relationship with someone who has it.

I also work in a psychiatric hospital with all sorts of patients, and have seen patients who are totally manic and others who are totally psychotic. On their meds, they are in their right minds. Off their meds, they are out of their minds.

Rebecca has no clue what she is talking about.
---Madison1101 on 11/3/06

jamea -- He got saved ONLY if he, himself, reached out to God, believed on Jesus and asked forgiveness of his sins. This can be done in a moments times. So there is no way for us to know. AFTER he died no body's prayer could accomplish anything.
---Donna2277 on 11/3/06

Over the years, several friends died by suicide. In some, nobody saw warning signs. Total shock! We all wondered if we could have prevented it (probably not). One woman, ??? Christian, I tried to help... got her pastoral counseling, offered to make a Dr. appointment, pay for it and transport her. I appealed to her on behalf of her young teen-age son. I prayed for her and with her. So did others. BUT she did it anyway. SAD! But God told me, "You did what you could. It was HER choice to make".
---Donna2277 on 11/3/06

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#1 Madison, One of the women I have walked alongside with is bipolar. It's a complex mental condition and is very stressful on the person with it & those around them. Years ago they were put away in institutions and suffered a horrible life. These folks are intelligent, caring, with much potential. But, without proper med's & dosages, they suffer disabilitating symptoms. They are not in their "right" mind. Mental,emotional & physcial changes are beyond their control.
---Linda on 11/3/06

#2 The merciful God has provided medical help for these individuals. For some to say that they can choose to surrender to God their problems & be able to mentally grasp His direction & act upon it, is said by those who have no understanding of being bipolar or any type of mental disease. I think it's great you read up on it. These 2 women both attempted suicide. Your are correct about genetic origin, she was told that as well.
---Linda on 11/3/06

Helen; Nail it to the cross means give your problems to God and walk away from them. Don't pick them back up. God can't work on a person's problems if one don't give them to him. Madision; before these people turned into a bipolar, they knew of God or they know God personally, (saved) and yet if they don't call upon him for help, it is their fault. When someone loses their mind due to alzteimers, if they were saved before they got this disease they are with God those who weren't saved aren't with God.
---Rebecca_D on 11/3/06

I totally agree with Linda. This is just the reason people are embarrassed to get help with mental illness: Negative JUDGMENT.
---sue on 11/3/06

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"Everyone in their right mind (not born with a mental illness) are responsable for their own actions. "

So you acknowledge that some may be born with a mental disorder but you do not recognize that a mature person may suffer a mental disorder? What kind of logic is that?

That is like trying to draw a distinction between being born with cancer and contracting cancer later in life. Disease is disease whether it is congential or develops later in life.
---Bruce5656 on 11/3/06

What about people who become senile or develop alzheimers late in life and begin to act in very un-christian ways. Are they to be held repsonsible too?
---Bruce5656 on 11/3/06

I do believe that Christian suicides go to hell (1 Corinthians 3:17 "If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him".) However, having said that, God is the ultimate Judge when it comes to matters of the mind. No human being can get inside the human mind, so only God knows. That is where it should be left, otherwise we really are judging.
---Helen_5378 on 11/3/06

Rebecca: I have been reading about bipolar disorder this evening, and it says that the onset is usually around 18-22 years old, but a person can develop in their 40s. They can be in their right mind till they develop the bipolar disorder. Bipolar disorder is organic, and research is showing a genetic component.

Many patients with bipolar depression attempt suicide.

That is why I call you heartless and ignorant. You do not know what you are talking about.
---Madison1101 on 11/2/06

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#1 Matt. 7:1-2, "Do not judge or you to will be judged. For the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you." Mental illness & depression are two illnesses that people judge regularly in the negative. If we have a broken leg, it is understood. But if one has mental problems the attitude & advice is to mostly blame the person for their condition. In the Christian community people who are on mental illness med's are afraid to say anything.
---Linda on 11/2/06

#2 It is the fear of a "sermon" of if they were more spiritual, fasted, prayed more etc, they would be healed. I'm not saying that these are not beneficial to do, but to have a condemning "air" is keenly felt by those who are dealing with these issues. It further isolates them from the very people who should be listening, upholding them, loving them unconditionally. I have depression. I take medication. The chemical imbalance in my brain affects my whole person.
---Linda on 11/2/06

#3 I've not been suicidal, but I've befriended women who've been. I've taken them to psychiatric hosp's in middle of the night. I love these women. Both of them will be on med's all their lives. They love the Lord & are serving Him. Whatever the nature of how one becomes mentally disturbed, is not for us to judge. We're to walk alongside & uphold that one. And, if suicide does occur, love them still. God's the final judge of a person's salvation & whether their name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
---Linda on 11/2/06

Rebecca D - Hi. Could you please tell us just how you do nail something to the Cross. For those of us who do not know how to do that. Thanks.
---Helen_5378 on 11/2/06

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Rebecca .. I know that you were horribly abused.
But you still speak from theory and from your own experience.
Clearly you have not been to the place where I have been (see mine 10/28) At that time I was not aware of God.
Are you saying He deserted me because I could not hear him? No, it was actual illness of my btain, which is actually part of my body.
You should not judge others when you have no exper9ience of their situation.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/2/06

1 John:15-Whoever hates his brother is a murderer.....
Romans 14:12-So then each of us shall give account of himself to God (13)Therfore let us not Judge.....So how can anyone judge if a person goes to hell or heaven? It's not up to you nor me.
---Mary on 11/2/06

Rebecca: You obviously did not suffer a severe mental illness, or you would not say what you said about the mentally ill. Compassion is a fruit of the Spirit, and you lack it terribly.
---Madison1101 on 11/2/06

Madision; I didn't write the bible, every word was inspired by God himself. So don't call me heartless, I'm just stating what the bible says. In Rev, it says some people will try to seek death (suicide) but won't find it. The bible says that we should respect God and when a person takes their life how are they respecting God? When a person takes their life they lost their faith in God. 2 Tim 4:7. Everyone in their right mind (not born with a mental illness) are responsable for their own actions.
---Rebecca_D on 11/2/06

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rebecca, I am glad that the lord spoke to you and saved you. that is God's grace at work. But don't condem those whose spiritual ears were not as open as yours. It is clear that you knew somewhere to look but maybe someone else is deeper in depression and they can't see the way out and all they can hear are the echos of their dispair. Pray for those, don't condemn, God will look at their hearts we don't have to or could be clearly see it if we could. God's grace abounds even when we limit it.
---Jared on 11/2/06

CONT: I got saved later on in life. Steal dealing with this mentally. It was a stronghold on me and I didn't know how to be set free from it. People would say nail it on the cross, I didn't know how. and the fact that my sister was still married to this man made matters worse. Satan was having a field day with my mind. Until one night I went to church and a preacher said there was something I needed to overcome. I found out how to nail it to the cross and walk away free. that was 7 years ago.
---Rebecca_D on 11/2/06

If someone takes their own life, it is WRONG AND A SIN, I don't care how they do it because it is done intentionally. Alan; God is there to help all people with any problem. I have suffered mentally from sexual abuse, I was in a dark hole that I could not excape the pain mentally. I thought that if I could take my life, my pain will be over. But I heard my mom in my head telling me to stop. I honestly believe that was God using my mom's voice because I didn't know the voice of God.
---Rebecca_D on 11/2/06

So you are saying that, based on your mental health experience, everyone who commits suicide is fully responsible for their actions at the time. None are a victim of a debilitating disease or condition that might cause them to be irresponsible for their actions.
---Bruce5656 on 11/2/06

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If Murder is a sin(Thou shalt not kill) And a person "kills" themselves then HOW CAN they ask for forgiveness? Since a person "Willingly" destroys the temple of God and then saying "oops". I work in mental health in a prison and am faced with the fact of depression and self mutilation daily. I have been to the place where I felt that was the only way out. When you feel like you cant pary is when you need too the most. believe in believing. Its called faith.
---Melanie on 11/1/06

let GOD be judge.this poor man must have been going through mental and emotional agonies,and if he had repented and given his life to the Lord then he WAS SAVED,we all sin don't we?we are not sent to hell are we?noit if we have repented and been born again let God be judge He knows themans heart
---doree4573 on 11/1/06

Rebecca: Your ignorance about mental illness just astounds me. Not to mention your heartless attitude. You call yourself a Christian?
---Madison1101 on 11/1/06

Your words indicate that you believe that all mental illness is a result of self abuse - drugs, lifestyle etc. "But those that fry their brain with drugs and those that suffer from mental problems due to their past, I don't think God has mercy on those."

So you are putting that type of sin/sinful lifestyle into a sort of unpardonable sin category?

What about people who were abused due to no fault of their own and suffer ill effects from that today?
---Bruce5656 on 11/1/06

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Further, the concept that all mental illness is as a result of drug or other types of abuse is... well, I just can't believe people can be so... ignorant as to believe this. I am sorry if that sounds harsh. It is not intended to be and I know you are not the only one to feel that way.
---Bruce5656 on 11/1/06

Tebecca .... how about the person who suffers stress, and smokes in order to keep that stress under control.
Does the resulting early death amount to suicide?
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/1/06

No he died lost And no amount of praying will change that
---Betty on 11/1/06

If someone was in their right mind when born and let the problems of life get to them, and go into depression and take their life, that is wrong and I believe they go to hell. If someone is born with a mental problem for whatever reason and continues with that in life, and then take their life, I believe that God has mercy on those that are born mental. But those that fry their brain with drugs and those that suffer from mental problems due to their past, I don't thik God has mercy on those.
---Rebecca_D on 10/31/06

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Rebecca, I have this very day met a mother, whose daughter was born early, suffered oxygen starvsation, and various other bad things as a young child, and as a result now in her 20's has a low mental age and is unstable.
What if she commits suicide? Sin on her part? Phooee!
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/31/06

I have a friend whose dad committed suicide. I personally believe he went to heaven because his depression was a chemical imbalance so he wasn't in his right mind. I don't think God will hold things against us if they were committed without a full mind (unless our mind is impaired by selfish means like drugs) Suicide is death and it is very sad. but we do much harm automatically condeming anyone that kills themselves.
---Jared on 10/30/06

Rebecca: There are many people who are psychotic and have command hallucinations to kill themselves. They are powerless over these hallucinations without their medication.
---madison1101 on 10/30/06

So it isn't their fault that Satan interveined and got in their mind/thoughts? It isn't their fault if they don't let God help them? Read Mt 5:1-6 this man had a demon in him, and he cried and cut himself and when he seen Jesus, he ran and worshipped him. this man wanted help, he didn't know how to get it. He ran to Jesus. He ran to the mercy seat. Ps 9:9-10. Some people just don't want to be helped.
---Rebecca_D on 10/30/06

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Rebecca ... I have seen those whose minds are paralised by the shock sudden depression or mental illness.
I'm so sad you say that it their own fault.
It obviously did not happen to you, or you would understand.
You have no right to judge such people
---aalan8869_of_UK on 10/29/06

Like this man stated above that took his life, he lost his will, his desire to live. God looks at people with tears in his eyes and say to them, "I was right there, in reach all you had to do was take a step toward me, and I would have carried you". People are blinded by Satan, and they can't see nor hear from God. Is that their fault, yes because God gives us every chance he can for us to come to him. He sends people to them but yet, they are still blinded.
---Rebecca_D on 10/28/06

Rebecca ... Yes Rebecca ... they are doing what they mean to do. But you ignore the state of their mind. That, I can tell you, may be such that you do not recognise that God is there, and that you are of value to their family. They do not have the mental capacity and their illness has destroyed their desire to ask for help.
Your own experience is only yours ... it is not valid to use that to condemn others whose experience is worse or different.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/28/06

God won't make us do anything against our will. If someone is taking their life they are meaning to do just that. God didn't leave them, he said that he would never leave us nor forsake us. Alan, I had people praying for me and I asked for help from God, I wanted help, I got help. That was my desire. alot of people have lost their desire to live.
---Rebecca_D on 10/28/06

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Rebecca -- Yes,suicidal Christians have lost faith. Like a damaged tire they get flatter as time passes. If Christians could retain faith, there'd be no need to request prayer. We are to "bear the infirmities of the weak" Rom 15:1 to "support the weak, be patient toward all". I Thes 5:14. Better than guessing at why the tire went flat or if the flat tire is salvageable, is to prevent it. Let's buoy up "leaking" Christians...with help or medicine and PRAYER.
---Donna2277 on 10/24/06

My sister committed suicide. She lived a life of being tortured sexually, mentally, physically. She got married very young to get away from the abuse, however, married a very abusive husband. I received my second chance by having a nevous break down and being locked up in a pysh. Where were the christians to help her? We have a responsibiliy to help those who are depressed by loving them. Who are we to judge, who goes to hell or heaven? Only God knows the heart of every person.
---Mary on 10/24/06

Rebecca, Yea, but what about the POWER of God? Wouldn't that have anything to do with this young Christian? Would God just leave him in his greatest time of need and let satan take him?
---sue on 10/24/06

Rebecca ... you have said bewfore that you have suffered from severe depression.
from all that you now say, it is clear to me that you did not suffer the acute depression from which I suffered.
What you are saying insults millions.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/23/06

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Yes because he was being decived by Satan. Satan is very tricky and he will do anything he can to destroy anyone. If this young man believed in God as you say then he would have believed in him to save him. like I said Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. and when you people realize that, let me know.
---Rebecca_D on 10/23/06

Rebecca, what about the person who DID pray and pray but still no releif from their depression/pain? This person was a young Christain. He beleived in God and Jesus, but in his sick mind he truly beleived God wanted him 'home' and that this would be his way to peace. What about him? Is he in Hell?
---sue on 10/23/06

No, Rebecca, we dont think "it is sad, but no big deal if one takes their life".

You are making assumptions that anyone who kills themselves could made a conscience decision to ignore God.

Your mother was lucky that you were there.. many people dont. You need to remember that before condemning others.
---NurseRobert on 10/22/06

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