Scripture states that Jesus willingly became human. He willingly submitted to being tortured and crucified. Note, He stated He could call 12 legion of Angles to fight for Him. He didn't. He did it all by choice. Choice means free will.
---elain3998 on 1/4/09|
True Dog, thanks for your answer. No, you are not been rude, I can tell when other are rude. They get angry and hate enters their hearts. Don't ever let any discussion do that to you. Keep asking, keep learning.
What you should do is ask, what about this and that subject, and when you get an answer you cannot reconcile to the passage, give reasons why you don't. See if they can come out with an answer that reconciles to Scripture. If it doesn't don't be mad, just move on to the next, don't let one topic stop you, because later the answer you wanted from your first one, will appear in some way through another passage. God knows how to reveal His Word to us, but it's up to us to be patient, pray, and have a desire to learn the real truth.
---MarkV. on 1/2/09|
MarkV, I do believe in the voluntary and universality of mans sinfulness, and reconciliation in Christ, not in an ontological sense. You know there is a difference between "imputed sin" and "inborn sin" they are two separate views on the fall of man.
---TRU-DOG on 1/2/09|
Tru-dog~ That was a nice reply to Mark. It is good that even though we may have strong disagreements, we are striving to show respect.
---Anne on 1/2/09|
MarkV, I hope I'm not rude with all my questions or remarks...I like the dialogue or the interchange of ideas for open discussion, it is a-lot of fun. Thanks for all of your replies. I like some of your ideas and thoughts.
---TRU-DOG on 1/2/09|
True Dog, I find that you don't believe in the fall, you don't believe in reconciliation, or imputed righteousness. You don't believe man are sinful by nature. So how can I begin to help you? I don't know where to start. If you had some kind of a Christain concept as many here do, though maybe different in doctrine, i could help you. I am not here to answer questions on Calvinism theology, or reform theology or Arminian theology. I am here to answer Scripture and questions, to help on doctrines of faith. If I don't know the answer I will tell you. But in your case I don't know where to start. You don't believe anything so far. And I am not trying to convince you, but to give you the Truth. That is all I am required by God to do.
---MarkV. on 1/2/09|
Markv, You have not answered all of my questions...You are always disagreeing with me... so prove your view. I need real answers to my questions, if you can't, that's ok!
---TRU-DOG on 1/2/09|
Rhonda~ How true, true, true, true, true what you said!!!!!
Please, all of you who read these blogs, do not take for granted you are automatically 'saved'/'redeemed'. Salvation is not this little nice automatic thing that magically happens to us, but a LIFE LONG PROCESS.
God is not going to accept people who are not sincerely abiding in Him into His Kingdom. God knows those who are sincerely contrite and earnest, and those who are only paying lip-service. Please, read and meditate on your Bibles, and live for the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.
---Anne on 1/1/09|
True Dog, seems like I'm answering you more then anyone for whatever reason. I think you should ask others because you really don't understand or want to use what I give you as help. Maybe someone else will do a better job with your questions.
I do have something that can help you. If you can find a Bible that has a great concordance with all the words in the Bible, all you have to do is pick a word, like righteousness and you will find all the passages with that word, and then read the context on each one and you will get your answers. I have an NIV that I don't use much, but it has a great concordance. I say this because you come out with opinions of something because you have not read what God has to say on the topic. Just been helpful.
---MarkV. on 1/1/09|
Mark, The doctrine of imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ's obedience to the law was accounted as our obedience, is founded on a most false and nonsensical assumption, His obedience was not a work of supererogation, His own obedience was not accounted, or set down to our credit as our substitute, it is impossible for any being to perform a work of supererogation.
---TRU-DOG on 12/31/08|
Rhonda, you are correct, salvation is from the wrath of God and that has not come yet. Though we are saved by the promises of God. And since He is outside of time, What he promised to give has already happened before His eyes since He is Omniscience.
The Bible writers speak of a past, present, and future salvation. The writers are not God and used their own words to the people in each age. But all of this was before the Lord from the beginning to end since He guided the writers what to write.
Yes, the writers of Scripture continue to teach exhalt edify and warn all believers of their state and conduct all through the New Testament.
---MarkV. on 12/29/08|
True Dog, you have a lot of opinions that come from your heart, but do not come from Scripture. You give what you think is correct and true and how you see it, but that is not the way it is written. There is people who don't believe in hell, others who don't believe Genesis, others who believe everyone will be saved in the end, and so forth, but that is their opinions and man has a lot of them. When you can put what you say, next to passages, you might have a case if the passages are not taken out of context. Otherwise no matter how many passages I put down you will not believe. So lets see you proof what you say. Just remember, the Bible does not talk about DNA.
---MarkV. on 12/29/08|
I am always hearing about the "Elect", the "Saved", the "Chosen", but there is also such a thing as the "Un-Elect", the "Un-Saved", and the rejected, like Eli and Saul in the days of Samuel.
---Nana on 12/27/08
---Nana on 12/28/08|
The save have been judged already and have been redeemed
where are those who are "saved" and "redeemed" in Gods Word?
Salvation is a PROMISE to be INHERITED
If salvation were "automatic" once someone just gives lip service and "calls on the Lord" then the ENTIRE Bible is a big joke ...where Christ and Apostles spend all of their time and energy TEACHING about OVERCOMING SIN which is the world (2Corin 4:4)
Overcoming sin is a LIFELONG process and by Gods Gift of His Holy Spirit dwelling in the lives of Christians we use His Spirit as Christ did to become like God
---Rhonda on 12/28/08|
MarkV, It is naturally impossible to impute one persons righteousness to another. Adams unrighteousness and Jesus Christ righteousness cannot be imputed and God be Just. It would make God most confused and an unjust Being in the Universe. All righteousness and unrighteousness is personal and non-transferable. Adam didn't disobey for us, nor did Jesus Christ obey for us. this is to confuse a persons personal conduct, blame and shame with another. Jesus did righteous because He is God The Son, God cannot sin. We become righteous, even as He is righteous in actuality, by emulation.
---TRU-DOG on 12/27/08|
True Dog, I am sorry but I disagree with you completely and many others too because you don't know what you are talking about. God does not judge believers by our free will. The save have been judged already and have been redeemed. The blood of Jesus covers our sin and His righteousness has been imputed to us. God could not have forgiven us already and later charge us for our sins again. All Children of God are partakers of God chastening and discipline for their sins.
The unsave will be judge at the Great White Throne of Judgement. With the lost, the book of works will be open and they will be judge righteousnessly by God, they were never redeemed for they rejected Christ and did what they loved to do.
---MarkV. on 12/27/08|
Jesus was and is God. He chosed to live among us for a little while. Never put Jesus Christ on the same level as mere humans. God is our Creator. Jesus is our Creator. They do as they please. And they are sinless. God's main attribute is holiness.
---catherine on 12/23/08|
Thanks, Tru-dog, it is not my own thought but something I learnt from the internet.
---frances008 on 12/23/08|
Frances008, Wow! Great Blog..."Without free will there can be no moral responsibility. Therefore for God to punish people if they did not choose wrong for themselves, would make God unjust. We know God is just, therefore we have free will. If we have free will, Jesus certainly did and does."
---TRU-DOG on 12/23/08|
Shaun M.T. you seem to be drifting ever further and further away. Your post needs intense study to make any sense out of it. It is full of contradictions. Freewill is sin, freewill is sin if it isn't God's will. I don't see any free will in being born depraved which is what you believe. If only those who God chooses can come to him then they do not deserve to be rewarded. Indeed there is no motivation to work for God since we are (according to you) either born for eternal bliss, or eternal damnation. If you are a sinner you may as well and actually have no choice but to stay a sinner. Or just wait till God knocks on your door and forces you into his Kingdom. I am not saying you are wrong, just I fail to see how it can be the truth.
---frances008 on 12/22/08|
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Without free will there can be no moral responsibility. Therefore for God to punish people if they did not choose wrong for themselves, would make God unjust. We know God is just, therefore we have free will. If we have free will, Jesus certainly did and does.
---frances008 on 12/21/08|
Rhonda, VERY GOOD!! "All flesh and blood have free moral agency ...Christ was flesh and blood
If Christ did not have free will on earth then he lied when he told us he OVERCAME sin ...there would be nothing to overcome if he didn't have free will and choice".
---TRU-DOG on 12/19/08|
Like every other man, Jesus did have a free will or else Satan would'nt have wasted his time convincing Jesus to side with him.
Having a free will doesn't necessarily mean it's evil or else there wouldn't be a second resurrection where people will be judged according to their works on earth. Christians are take at the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 10/29/08|
To Whosoever has an ear to hear?
People are unaware of the truth of what the world is calling "free-will". Free-will is nothing more then choosing evil, choosing the "evil will of sin"!!!
What is free-will if it's not God's Will? Seeing how there is only the Good Will of God & the evil will of sin. And if free-will is God's Will, then why call it free-will?
Christ Jesus had the ability to choose evil, just like every man does. But He neither desired to speak nor declare any "will" apart from the Will of our Heavenly Father.
---Shawn.M.T on 10/29/08|
Jesus was of one Nature, fully human and fully Divine, not two natures. We were made in the image of God. One nature. But in this nature, we are at war with ourselves because of good and evil fighting for control. We need to submit to God who is good, and resist the evil. God's grace allows us to do so. God is patient to us, not wanting any (of the called) to perish. If you are determined on your path of sin, then all Jesus will say is 'Goodbye, you evildoer.'
---frances008 on 10/18/08|
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
This is the call to the CHURCH...
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death,
---kathr4453 on 10/17/08|
Jesus said emphatically "the father and I ARE ONE"if so where does the doubt lie in the mind of Man not GOD.God speaks ONCE no change thereafter."My word shall stand the test of Time"So his will as man was congruent with the Father, no change.
---Mic on 10/17/08|
Of course, Jesus had a free will in His human nature.
Otherwise, he would not have been fully human, and our nature could not be saved.
---katavasia on 10/17/08|
God, and Jesus can do anything.
They can sin if they wish, but don't
Jesus was tempted ... the Bible is quite clear that Jesus could have been deflected from His task.
But He willingly chose to fulfil His work of Salvation
---alan_of_UK on 10/17/08|
I love the spiritual application of Jesus who did have a free will, stated, I can lay it down or take up my life. So can we.
Jesus came to do the will of the Father. Jesus is showing US throuhg His example what true obedience is....surrendering our will to the Father. Jesus also clearly says...many will do wonderful things in this life. The only thing that matters is doing the will of God.
Jesus said FOLLOW ME!!!! WE follow Jesus into death and resurrection life.....was/is and will always be God's will.
This is the ONLY example that matters.
Keep this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus.....TOTAL surrender to the will of God!!!!
ROMANS 12: 1 & 2
---kathr4453 on 10/17/08|
Philippians 2:5: "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9: Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: ..."
That Jesus Christ came in the flesh Scriptures declare. Gnostics and Manicheans make a parody of that fact by their unfounded rhetoric.
---Nana on 10/17/08|
**By the way, the word tempted when referring to Christ simply means tested. Christ was not tempted by sin, neither does he tempt any man.
---trey on 10/15/08**
Trey, I completely agree. And we are tested as well. James is a wonderful chapter for the testing of our FAITH.
Only Christians have faith, and it is only this TRUE FAITH that is tested to bring us to MATURITY...perfect and entire lacking nothing....becoming OVERCOMERS!!
Children know their sins are forgiven
Young men have OVERCOME the wicked one
Fathers..... 1st John tells us this very fact!
See the levels of maturity here.
There are all kinds of faith, but only those whos faith is in Christ is applicable here!
---kathr4453 on 10/16/08|
Yehoshua could have chosen not to fulfill the Fathers purpose. Hence in the garden He prayed for the Father to remove the cup from him, but then said the Fathers will be done, not His. So yes He had a choice, just as we do.
---wayne on 10/16/08|
Thank you for not lumping me in with the rest of you.
I mean that with all sincerity.
---trey on 10/15/08|
Mic and Nana,
Let me ask you this: Do you believe that Christ obligated himself in covenant agreement before the foundation of the world to come in the fullness of time and die on the cross for his children?
Do you believe that Christ, being the Son of God, could break his promise to the Father?
If you answer "no" to the first and "yes" to the second, then you need to do some more study.
---trey on 10/15/08|
Trey: What you explain is the Blessed Trinity 3 separate persons equally powerful yet in one and the same God. This is the belief of the RCC.Why should I disagree in what is the truth.
---Mic on 10/15/08|
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I am with Rhonda and frances and Eloy and Mic and Pharisee and Bob in their last blog entry. Trey and Kath are in a leage of their own for sure.
Hebrews 2:18: "For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted."
---Nana on 10/15/08|
What I am saying is that Christ being God manifest in the flesh, being just, being immutable (meaning he does not change, he is the same yesterday, today and forever), being the very epitomy of truthfulness, having entered into the New Covenant with God the Father, and the Holy Ghost before the foundation of the world, by his very nature he could not go back on his word.
Christ, being God manifest in the flesh, cannot lie and he cannot sin.
To say that Christ after making an agreement with God the Father could go back on his word is saying that he is not just, he is not immutable and would deny his very deity.
Does this make sense to you?
---trey on 10/15/08|
By the way, the word tempted when referring to Christ simply means tested. Christ was not tempted by sin, neither does he tempt any man.
---trey on 10/15/08|
***If Christ did not have free will on earth then he lied when he told us he OVERCAME sin ...there would be nothing to overcome if he didn't have free will and choice***
Rhonda, no where did Jesus say He overcame sin. He said I overcame the world....He overcame in the desert those 40 days? Satan offered him the world and all the kingdoms right then if he would bow to Satan. Jesus knew all the Kingdoms would one day be His....(Please read REV 11)...that now are in satan's hands. (The Kingdom of this world is not the Kingdom of our Lord and Savior) Through our faith In Jesus Christ we are translated out of this present evil age and come into the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/08|
Yes, Jesus is not a robot nor a machine.
---Eloy on 10/14/08|
What would be God's purpose in creating robot(s) to carry out instructions. No! God gave us the freedom to choose, and His Pleasure is that Jesus was obedient unto death, death on a cross. It is His Pleasure that we obey His Commandments and ordinances for the glory of God and the furtherance of His Kingdom, to expand it to include as many people as can turn from their love of sin and repent and be forgiven.
---frances008 on 10/14/08|
Yes, all humans, angels and Jesus have free will. Otherwise they would not be morally responsible for their actions. Hell would be unjust, Heaven undeserved. We have free will. God knows what we are going to choose beforehand. He wants everyone to repent and come to God (which for some people may just mean becoming morally good, and for others being righteous in their business transactions.) Anyone who falls short of righteousness does not make it to Heaven.
---frances008 on 10/14/08|
All flesh and blood have free moral agency ...Christ was flesh and blood
If Christ did not have free will on earth then he lied when he told us he OVERCAME sin ...there would be nothing to overcome if he didn't have free will and choice
---Rhonda on 10/14/08|
TREY:-If He did not have a free will why was He tempted by satan and why did The word become flesh.Please think before you write.For some it is easier to blaspheme than say Lord forgive me I am sorry.It is called empty PRIDE.
---Mic on 10/14/08|
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Christ did not have freewill. Christ being God, had covenanted before the foundation of the world with God the Father, and God the Holy Ghost to come in the fulness of time of time and give his life for his children. When Christ entered into that covenant, Christ being God, is a just God, and cannot go back on his word. Christ cannot lie.
Let us look to the scriptures:
Joh12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man MUST be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
Ac17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead, and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
---trey on 10/13/08|
Holiness cannot exist apart from a choice to be Holy.
---Pharisee on 9/30/08|
Yes He did and I am so glad He decided to be obedient to His Father. Through that obedience He laid down His life for you and me. He made a way for us to be forgiven of every sin and every wrong and now we have a right to the TRee of Life. Praise God for Jesus today! No one took His life...He laid it down voluntarily! Hallelujah! I am so glad today. I have been bought and paid for with His precious blood. Thank you Jesus for what you have done.
---Robyn on 11/17/07|
Yes, Jesus has a freewill.
Angels have a freewill.
Humans have a freewill.
---Bob on 11/13/07|
Did Jesus have free will? Yes. He came wrapped "in flesh", like us, yet He had Divine Blood, "being very God yet very man". He was tempted like us, yet He overcame temptation(Hebrews 4:15). He taught us how to obey God, how to Trust God, how to overcome the devil, how to humble and deny self. Jesus taught God's people how to live!
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/13/07|
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Hebrews says Jesus learned obedience through the things He suffered.
We are called to have the same mind in us. Philippians 2, Having this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus..became obedient unto death
---kathr4453 on 10/27/06|
Yes Helen, now we can see how redickulas this sounds. To say Jesus had free will, is saying that He could have done his own will by his own free will choice. This is saying that the Lamb of God could have declined to be who he was, and refused to go to the cross and die for mans sins.
---Billy on 10/26/06|
2/... If Jesus had failed then God would no longer have been God. I mean, it is ridiculous to even contemplate such a thing, there is no point to it at all.
---Helen_5378 on 10/26/06|
Helen, Neither should we think that Jesus had free will that he could have done anything other than his Fathers will. This was his destiny, not something that he could have backed out on. Thanks Helen for showing how foolish it is to think that Jesus could have done otherwise. God bless
---Billy on 10/26/06|
I believe it is totally pointless to even consider what might have happened had Jesus failed. It was not God's plan for Jesus to fail and Jesus did not fail. That is enough for me.
---Helen_5378 on 10/26/06|
If Jesus was the Lamb of God that was to be the sacrifice for our sins and chose to let that cup pass, would this not interrupt God plans means Jesus was the lamb that was slain before the world was?
---Billy on 10/25/06|
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. Col 2:8 Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Col 2:16,17
---Raine on 10/24/06|
Would you be speaking for SDA's?
---Shiela on 10/24/06|
Amen Raine, but beware of this freedom of choice 4 it does not come without warning. We must choose carefully what we must do and if it is the teachings of Christ and not of man.
---janaj on 10/24/06|
Jesus had a free will on earth and so do we.
John 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
---Raine on 10/22/06|
Jesus actually had TWO wills (and still does).
He had a divine will as part of His divine nature. To deny this is to make it incomplete.
He also had a fully human will because he had a full human nature. To deny this is to make Him less than human.
His human will was perfectly in tune with His divine will. (Think of a piano, where two or three strings are tuned to one unison.)
---Jack on 10/19/06|
Yes, every soul, even Christ's, has free will to choose to do God's will, or else to choose to do some other will.
---Eloy on 10/19/06|
O yes he did, O yes he did. He went to the cross at His own will because not going to the cross would have not been unrightesouness for Him and the cross would not have been imposed upon Him had He said no in the garden of Gethsemane. When Jesus said "thy will be done" in that garden, what he was saying was "your will I grant."
---Okebaram on 10/18/06|
Absolutely! He CHOSE to say no to Satan in the wilderness..."he was tempted in all ways like as we, yet without sin" Heb4:15
He CHOSE to allow his own arrest, beating and to carry the cross. "the cup which my Father has given me, shall I not drink it?" Jn 18:11 He CHOSE to die on the cross for you and me, knowing our wickedness and inability to save ourselves. He wasn't forced. He did it WILLINGLY. Hallelujah! What love!
---Donna2277 on 10/18/06|
Jesus exercised his free will when he chose to subject his free will to the Father's will.You and I as Christians and followers of Jesus Christ or to do the same. We are to knowingly, willingly, openly, publicly submitted our will to the control of the Father. When we do we are "walking" in the spirit. The beginning of this, and the committing part, starts when we call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
---mima on 10/18/06|
Yes, this is evidenced by His prayer in the garden of Gethsemene...not MY will but yours be done. His choice!!!Praise Him!
---Christina on 10/18/06|
How can Holiness exist apart from the decision to be holy?
---Pharisee on 10/18/06|
I think he did. If He was here to be a man, he must have had free will. He begged God, his father to take the burden away at one point. Sounds like a free will.
---sue on 10/18/06|
Yes, Jesus did have a free will when He was on earth. He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane for the Father to take the cup from Him, but nevertheless "not My will, but Yours be done" (Luke 22:42).
---Helen_5378 on 10/18/06|
Yes. He chose to use His free will to do the will of the Father. This is something man cannot do without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, making Jesus unique.
---Ryan on 10/18/06|
Jesus had a free-will to choose whether to take our place on the cross or not. But He chose to do the will of the Father.(Luke 22:42; John 4:34)
---Rickey on 10/17/06|
Since Free Will is being in a state of rebellion against God, definitely no!!!
As two distinct entities Christ and God shared a common unity of purpose, that is the meaning of the oneness referred to in John 10:30. and that relationship is further clarified in John 17:1b-26
---Phil_the_Elder on 10/17/06|
greetings,jesus certainly had free will when he lived among us .
---earl on 10/17/06|