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Is It Trinity Or Oneness

I know there are Trinitarian and Apostolic pentecostal denominations. But, are there pentecostal denominations that do not believe in the Trinity or in Oneness?

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 ---Susie on 12/13/06
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Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
This is the day of pentecost When the ancient of days came Jesus,s Father The Holy Spirit, The Father is the Holy Spirit and seeks those to worship him in Spirit and truth.
---Exzucuh on 4/24/08

TY::We follow the lord by word in trust based on His gospels.To understand the rinity is truly a mystery, as is the incarnation, which we are called to accept,can we explain, NO.But let me take you back to Genesis 18.1-10.see how Abraham dealt with the situation.He accepted on the oaks of Mamre.
---Emcee on 7/22/07

I am a Pastor of what some call an apostolic/pentecostal church. However,I do not wear the title trinitarian or oneness for both were terms coined by men in an effort to descibe our great God. I believe God is one. All we are required is to believe he is and he rewards them that seek him. I came out of the UPCI which is full of convoluted definitions of scipture. One cannot be a student of the word without seeing and admitting that this argument is devisive. "great is the mystery of godliness".
---Ty on 7/21/07

I think a lot of Trinity disagreement is symantics. I think we probably all believe closer to the same thing than we realize.
---christian on 2/21/07

Jesus said my Father is a Spirit and he seeks those to worship him in Spirit and truth, The Spirit of the Father is not a limited Spirit like you and I, our spirit of life is part of him we exist by God alone as Job said if God took his breath from the earth all would perish.people look at everything from the flesh perspective but Jesus said the flesh profiteth nothing it is the Spirit that gives life.
---exzucuh on 12/25/06

Listen Up! The Son of G_d was 'always' in G_d's bosom, without shape, form, etc. He 'left', putting on flesh & blood for His mission. When finished, He returned to Heaven, now G_d's only 'begotten' Son, no longer 'in' God's 'bosom', but seated at God's right hand, specifically making intercesssion for those redeemed by His Blood.

How could anyone be like Him if He returned to G_d's bosom? Bottom Line? He is who He said He is [John 10:1-'30'], Why debate apples and apples? in our 'finite' minds?
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 12/25/06

Ummm what about Isaiah 63:10, exc..., It seems like The holy spirit is not exactly God the Father
---mark on 12/24/06

My point is made Jesus is the Son of Father in him is all the fullness of the Father and his flesh is made of the Father he also being made of the woman is the Son of man, He is Son of man and Son of the Father. Jesus's Name is synonymous with the Father and his Spirit. As he said the Father will send his Spirit in My name and not Speak of the Father but bear witness of the Son.
---Exzucuh on 12/24/06

That scripture does not say there are three Gods
It says thre are three witnesses to the fact that we are born of God and Jesus is the Son. the Father bears witness and spoke from heaven this is my Son the Logos or written word in Heaven found in the book of life declares him
also Gods Spirit bears witness, He sent it on the day of pentecost as a witness to the Son.
---Exzucuh on 12/23/06

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

It says Jesus will Let the Father have his throne back. If Jesus was God the Father he would not be subject to him Jesus is the Son of God
---Exzucuh on 12/23/06

The Trinity is Biblical - look at 1 John 5:7-8. God is one in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Like an egg is one with three parts (shell, yoke, white).
---Leslie on 12/22/06

I Cor.12:1-3, *4-6. Like every other 'Christian' denomination, some believe this, some believe that. Bottom Line? The Word Of God!

Time to go. Wish there were many more edifying blogs, rather than those pitting denominations, 'factions', controvery's, etc against one another like those now posted.

---bob6749_[Elishama] on 12/22/06

2 Corinthians 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Apostles taught this doctrine of one God in Jesus they were Jews and would never believe in three Gods.23 times it is said from God our Father and his Son Jesus Christ. Never Father Son and Holy Ghost because they believed the Father was the Holy Ghost.
---Exzucuh on 12/22/06

Colossians 2:8-10 & Deut.6-4 basically say the same thing, read it for yourself, where the last Name for G_d [Echad], literrally means one "United One"!
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 12/21/06

As I said before If you call God A trinity you make him and the Son a liar, they have both said God is one God And if you say Jesus is the Father You deny the Son, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and in him dwells the Father who is the Holy Spirit, Jesus is the way , the door, the mediator, the lawyer,
the light, the salvation, the savior, and temple of the Father. There is one Father who is a Spirit as Jesus said and One Son in whom God is Found.
---Exzucuh on 12/21/06

part 1
This is the true Israel he is Jesus and him alone and every one who is in him.

Isaiah 49:1-6 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
---exzucuh on 12/20/06

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part 2
And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
---exzucuh on 12/20/06

I would not say that revealing scripture is corrupting it. To change it where it says something different would be, I have given you word for word king James scripture. If you can show me where this is wrong I will except it
but the word speaks for itself. And by the way go back and read what I said again The name of my God is written there.
---exzucuh on 12/20/06

As the old hymn goes: "God in three Persons, Blessed Trinity...". God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 12/20/06

Hahaha, Eloy and Exzucuh, the best part is that your both right...
---mark on 12/20/06

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Exzucuh, you corrupt scripture: "But now thus says YHWH that created you, O JACOB, and he that formed you, O ISRAEL, Fear not: for I have redeemed you, I have called your name; you mine. Every one that is called by my name (EACH CHILD OF ISRAEL): for I have created him (EACH CHILD OF ISRAEL) for my glory, I have formed him (EACH CHILD OF ISRAEL); yea, I have made him (EACH CHILD OF ISRAEL)." Isaiah 43:1,7. He is calling them (by his name) who were scattered in the world, back together again.
---Eloy on 12/20/06

.exzucuh, As you have mentioned your offense, nevertheless, all things that offend he will gather up and throw into the fire. Will you answer my simple question: "every real Christian knows the Name of their God whom we worship, so tell me please, what is the name of the God that you worship?"
---Eloy on 12/20/06

.exzucuh, you say that it is important to know what you believe, so tell: what do you believe? for every real Christian knows the Name of their God whom we worship, so tell me please, what is the name of the God that you worship?
---Eloy on 12/20/06

The things I have said are said by the Son and the Father you are offended at the fact that your doctrine is being attacked I am not offended because I base what I believe on What Jesus has said not A doctrine that has been approved by some council. Most of the christians I know are either oneness or trinitarian some of them say they are trinitarian but they are really oneness others don't Know what they believe. But it is important to know what you believe.
---Exzucuh on 12/19/06

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1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of
Christ, he hath (both)the Father and the Son.

notice it says both it refers to two, a Father and a Son
---Exzucuh on 12/19/06

1st cliff, I am not impressed by your misjudgments, for those not of Christ know not Christ.
---Eloy on 12/19/06

1st cliff, I am not becoming a Christian, for I already am a Christian, and I am praying that you too become one also.
---Eloy on 12/19/06

Eloy;Your use of the word "liar" is not becoming a Christian. What's needed here is "understanding". The definition of a father is one who imparts life to another. Since Jesus imparts life to all those who believe in Him,he becomes their (everlasting) "Father" as differenciating from the "Great Father" of all life,heavenly and on earthly,so you see neither one is a liar!
---1st_cliff on 12/19/06

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yeah. whoever posted that. thanks susie.
---JaeR on 12/19/06

There is one GOD, and we pray to the father in JESUS name. Karen
---Karen on 12/19/06

Eloy you are United pentecostal you must be I was a United pentecostal for three years It took me that long to come to the Knowledge of the truth I then went to the assembly of God and Got well educated in their three God misconception,
---Exzucuh on 12/19/06

Isaiah 43:6-7 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by my(NAME JESUS) for I have created (HIM JESUS) for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
The Son of God Jesus Is God's name The Son is, this is why his name is called Father, Son, Mighty God, He sent his Son and gave him the more excellent name meaning A name synonymous with God.
---Exzucuh on 12/19/06

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If you cannot believe That Jesus is God's Son you Cannot be saved, This is why mans doctrines are so evil. The trinity Says God the Father and God the Son it seems right. But it is not because for God to be the Son is not a Son nor only begotten for how can God who has no end or beginning be a Son. God is not the Author of confusion Jesus is God's only Son and to not receive that from God is heresy.
---Exzucuh on 12/19/06

Isaiah 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
This is another Scripture That reveals the Son Jesus as God's name and How the Father will speak through him and be revealed. This was fulfilled that night in the Garden when they came to take Jesus away and he said I am he and they fell backwards to the Ground.
---Exzucuh on 12/19/06

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. If jesus was the Father he would have told them to call him Father. He told them he was Gods Son. And that makes him God

Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Even the Devils know who Jesus is. They didn't call him Father.
---Exzucuh on 12/19/06

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Therefore I call him the Son Of the Father God
---Exzucuh on 12/19/06

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Jae...I was referring to this post:

"I'm not attached to any denomination.I don't believe in "following the crowd" Or standing in awe of some Pastor because he has a bunch of letters after his name."
---Susie on 12/19/06

susie said, "When I hear someone talk about not believing in attending church or answering to a pastor, I usually find that person to be in a Spirit of Rebellion!"

i dont go to church so that my pastor can have someone to preach to and get money from. but i go to my church to worship the Lord. i listen to many inspired sources. no pastor should scare believers into coming to church else be considered in rebellion. that's just fear talking.
---JaeR on 12/19/06

The United Pentecostals are not considered a cult becasue they do not agree about the Trinity. They are considerd a cult because of their soteriology (theology of salvation)

You must repent
Speak in tongues
Be baptized in water in Jesus' Name
or you are not a Christian.
---Bruce5656 on 12/19/06

The logic behind this is as follows (and this is tied into their Oneness theology):
There is no Father, Son and Holy Ghost - only Jesus
When you recieve the Holy Ghost you speak in tongues therefore, when you recive Jesus you speak in tongues. No tongues, no Jesus, no salvation.
And, if you must be baptized in water to have your sins washed away. No baptism - no salvation.
---Bruce5656 on 12/19/06

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And that baptism must be in the name of Jesus only. A baptism in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is not recoginzed as valid.

So, even a pentecostal like my self, having been saved and later recieving the gift of tongues and having been baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, am not a Christian by their theology.
---Bruce5656 on 12/19/06

exzucuh, I do not argue, I simply asked you a question: "every real Christian knows the Name of their God whom we worship, so tell me please, what is the name of the God that you worship?"
---Eloy on 12/19/06

exzucuh, Jesus says that he is the Father, but you say that he is not; that is the same thing as calling Jesus a liar.
---Eloy on 12/19/06

.exzucuh, again, please be so kind as to answer my simple question, if you will: "every real Christian knows the Name of their God whom we worship, so tell me please, what is the name of the God that you worship?"
---Eloy on 12/19/06

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.exzucuh, "the Word was God, and the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. And his Name will be called, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father." And "Everyone whom denies the Son, has neither the Father; whom confesses the Son has the Father also. Jesus said to him,...he that has seen me has seen the Father." I John 2:23; John 14:9. And by denying that Jesus is the Father, not only are you saying that Jesus is a liar, but you are also denying the fulness of the Godhood of Jesus.
---Eloy on 12/19/06

.exzucuh, correction: "And his Name will be called, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father." And "Everyone whom denies the Son, has neither the Father; whom confesses the Son has the Father also. Jesus said to him,...he that has seen me has seen the Father." I John 2:23; John 14:9. And by denying that Jesus is the Father, not only are you saying that Jesus is a liar, but you are also denying the fulness of the GODHEAD of Jesus.
---Eloy on 12/19/06

Bob, OK, I agree that just because a group uses Jesus' name Only, doesn't make them a cult. But MOST churches that do are DEF. 'heretical'; they don't believe in the Triunuity of God, such as the Oneness Pentecostals (which call themsleves 'Jesus Only' quite often)! For a quick guide to all 'known' heretical groups, look for Index of Cults and Religions at watchman DOT org, or wfial DOT org.
---danie9374 on 12/19/06

Susie: There are so many different 'Church of God' churches, no one can remember what they all stand for!!! If you look at the online Index I posted here, under Church of God there are offshoots from Armstrongism, and many that are more like Judaism (with an NT slant). If we knew the full title of your friend's denominational name, we could have looked that up.
---danie9374 on 12/19/06

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John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Why would Jesus say this if he was the Father?
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

was Jesus praying to himself?

John 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

If Jesus was the Father, who was he going to?
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

If Jesus was the Father who was he having faith in to obey? The Father would have no need to pray to himself.
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

If Jesus was the Father he would be equal with himself.
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

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I believe the words of Jesus not a man made doctrine.
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

Eloy the things that you are arguing with are the scriptures I have given you not What I have said. I have said nothing only given you what God has said of his Son and what Jesus has said of his Father. To say Jesus is the Father denies the Father.And to say the Father is Jesus denies the Son. To say they are a trinity makes God a liar. But to say Jesus is the only begotten Son of God in whom is the Father makes them one.
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

Exzucuh, when you profess that Jesus is not the Father, you are saying that Jesus is a liar, for he himself professes that he is and the scriptures also testify likewise that Jesus indeed is the very God and very Father.
---Eloy on 12/18/06

Thanks for all the "interesting" posts. LOL! I understand apostolic doctrine (Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and Trinity doctrine (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit). I am Assembly of God. So, that answers the question about doctrine. I have found out more about my friend's denomination. She attends a Church of God (not Cleveland, Tn, or Anderson, Indiana) which is a small denomination. They don't believe in Oneness or Apostolic.
---Susie on 12/18/06

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When I hear someone talk about not believing in attending church or answering to a pastor, I usually find that person to be in a Spirit of Rebellion!
---Susie on 12/18/06

Exzucuh, every real Christian knows the Name of their God whom we worship, so tell me please, what is the name of the God that you worship?
---Eloy on 12/18/06

Clarification: "Jesus Only" churches are not cults [unless some go off the deep end]. Instead of using/invoking in The Name Of THE FATHER, OF THE SON, & OF THE HOLY GHOST, THEY USE/INVOKE IN THE NAME OF JESUS [CHRIST] WHICH IS SCRIPTURAL Mk.16:[17]/ Matt.28:16:19,20. Same Thing (Col.2:8-10).

Every miracle the disciple's did was done in the Name Of Jesus [Christ] of Nazareth. BOTTOM LINE? ACTS 19:11-16,17-20.
---Bob6749_[Elishama] on 12/18/06

1st cliff, you must be inspired to understand in-spirited words properly. Jesus always knows what he is talking about, because he has the mind of God. When the O.T. and N.T. say that no one has ever seen God, and again in both testaments it says that some have seen God, then you need to take these antinomies in their context. And when we do, we understand that no worldy ones can see God, but the god-seeking will see God. For I myself have seen God more than once, even as the Bible says.
---Eloy on 12/18/06

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1st cliff, And Iaacob called the name of the place Penuel: for I have seen God face to face, and yet survived is my life. Blessed they of clean heart: for they will see God. All things were given to me by the Father of me: and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does know anyone the Father, except the Son, and to whomever will the Son reveal. Genesis 32:30; Matthew 5:8; 11:27. Please read John 14:21,23; I John 3:6.
---Eloy on 12/18/06

1st cliff, "And you all will seek me and find, when you all will search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13.
---Eloy on 12/18/06

Exzucuh, There is 1 God, not 2. Jesus does not sit in a second throne. "To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Revelation 3:21. Scripture says that God is Omnipresent spirit. Since there is only one God, then how can God, whom is one, be able to sit down at his own right hand? Is he beside himself? Jesus is God, always was, always is, and always will be, and there is absolutely no other.
---Eloy on 12/18/06

Exzucuh, The trinity is an antinomy. Jesus is called both, the Son and the Father, the Shepherd and the Lamb, God and man, the Son of David and the Lord of David, the Master and the Servant, the Creator and the created. And unless you accept both of these aspects of God as belonging to the One God, you will always fall short of the full completeness of the One God. I do not dimish either aspect of God, for both are real manifestations, namely, God became flesh and dwelt among us.
---Eloy on 12/18/06

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Exzucuh, Jesus alone is worshipped, as is written in the scripture, because he alone is God, else it would be idolatry to worship him: When Satan told his God Jesus to fall down and worship him, Jesus said to the creature whom he himself had created, "Go Satan, for it is written, Your Lord God will you worship, and him only will you serve." Matthew 4:10.
---Eloy on 12/18/06

So Susie, did I help at all in figuring out whatever group this acquaintance identifies himself with; or what he believes?

Wouldn't it be nice if people here actually stuck with trying to answer a blog's question; rather than debate each other over other issues?!
---danie9374 on 12/18/06

Eloy; One problem with your explanation=You say one who has seen Jesus was actually looking at the Father,right? but that makes null and void the scripture that says no man has seen God at any time (written 40/60 years after Jesus' ascention!
---1st_cliff on 12/18/06

Jesus is the way to the Father the Holy Spirit he was Given Power by his Father and sits at the Right hand of his Father, Stephen gave eye witness account of this. Jesus is the Temple of the HS in Heaven he is the name on the Father and the Son of the Father

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

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Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

Hebrews 1:3-4 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

Hebrews 1:5-6 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

What I am showing you is the Revelation of the Son of God that Peter proclaimed to Jesus and Jesus said his church would be built upon it. Peter did not say you are the Father.
---Exzucuh on 12/18/06

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1st cliff, Paul was speaking about false gods, which are idols: "And that towards being called gods if at all, both being in heaven and being on the earth, just as onto being many gods and many lords." (I Corinthians 8:5). And you Really must read the preceding verse 4, and the following verse 6, in order to keep verse 5 in it's right context, because Paul says in both verses that there is only One God. Thus, no, Paul was a monotheist.
---Eloy on 12/17/06

Exzucuh, As I have already cited many times the clear words from Jesus' mouth and from the scriptures, that Jesus said that he is the Father, but you still believe whatever you desire.
---Eloy on 12/17/06

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
This is Jesus standing Before his Father
There is a Father And a Son
---Exzucuh on 12/17/06

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