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Christmas As A Feast Day

The Wikipedia article on Christmas--especially in the section of the feast day itself and its Christian significance--flies in the face of conventional wisdom of Christmas as a replacement of Saturnalia. Read it and share your thoughts.

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 ---Jack on 12/21/06
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Helen ... Saved, converted, born-again, found, all mean the same.
But some will argue that born-agaion is necessary, that conversion is not enough.
But that's only because "conversion" was used 40-50 years ago, and is now out of date. Which mean some don't recognise it as genuine and as complete a life-changer as being "born-again".
---alan_of_UK on 12/30/07

AlanUKquent - Why do you say becoming "saved" is a "buzz word"? Getting saved (born-again same thing) is a very real experience.
---Helen_5378 on 12/17/07

When you become "saved" or whatever buzz-word you use for becoming a follower of Christ, you replace your old moral values (which may be very respectable ... most humanists are very moral people) with new morals based on Christ's teachings.
Are those new morals suspect because they are similar to the humanistic ones?
Why is the celebration of Christmas so condemned in some Christian circles?
---alanUKquent64534 on 5/28/07

"It's exactly like Luther's definition of justifying faith: the faith that believes itself to be justified."

Would you please provide the reference for Luther's definition of justifying faith? ISTM that in context Luther more often connects justification with forgiveness similar to the writings of St. Ambrose. He understands faith to be much more than mental assent of certain doctrines or facts.

Perhaps I have misunderstood you.
---Tina5349 on 12/30/06

(I.)Not ALL Christians are "born-again", Many in the Church know this, It isn't about being haughty or proud, it's a FACT. Some say that being born-again is just a "catch phrase", they also say this about "other things pertaining of God", they are wrong, Being born-again is a supernatural living REALITY, and one must be drawn by the Holy Spirit(and He leads one into ALL Truth), in order for this to happen, according to the Word. The Word says that we must ....
---Mrs._Morgan on 12/30/06

(II.)...EXAMINE ourselves to see if we are in THE FAITH/the Word(JESUS). Jesus said you will KNOW THEM by their FRUITS. Any and everybody wants to use the title of "Christian" nowadays, Jesus said many will say "Lord, Lord" and He will profess to them "depart from Me ye workers of iniquity(sin)"....
---Mrs._Morgan on 12/30/06

(III.)...I never KNEW you! Christians who are truly born-again are made nigh by the Blood of Jesus, and bear GOOD FRUIT,like Jesus said, they dont have a life full of empty/vain so-called "good" works, and bad fruit. God knows the SOURCE of ALL works/fruits. God Bless!(Ephesians 2:8-19)
---Mrs._Morgan on 12/30/06

Incomplete, Helen.

It also talks of being "born of water"--which means water baptism. See verse 5.
---Jack on 12/30/06

Jack - Wrong. John 3:3,6 speaks of being "born again of the Spirit". Read verse 5 and that will clarify it for you.
---Helen_5378 on 12/29/06

Jack - I say that I am born-again because I became born-again when Jesus saved me 8 1/2 years ago.
---Helen_5378 on 12/29/06

Helen ... John says we must be born again, not born-again.
If we are born again, we become Christians.
Your reply still appears to say you regard "born-again Christians" as superior to those Christians who do not add that adjective to their faith stautus. But I am sure you do not mean to imply that
---alanUKquent64534 on 12/29/06

**It is obedience to Jesus that I say that I am born-again.**

Interesting approach. Simply saying so means you are.

It's exactly like Luther's definition of justifying faith: the faith that believes itself to be justified.
---Jack on 12/29/06

**Jesus tells us in John 3:3,6 that we must be born-again.**

Of course, Jesus associates being born again with water baptism in this chapter, as I recall.
---Jack on 12/29/06

AlanUKquent - Jesus tells us in John 3:3,6 that we must be born-again. It is obedience to Jesus that I say that I am born-again. And it is also very simple to say that I am a born-again Christian. I am happy to be a Christian.
---Helen_5378 on 12/28/06

There you are Helen ... I'm sure you do not mean to, but you appear to consider yourself superior to Christians, such as myself, who do not use the term "born-again Christians" about themsleves.
My point was and is that there is no need for us to do so, because being a Christian means that we are born again.
---alanUKquent64534 on 12/27/06

AlanUKquent - I call myself a born-again Christian because that is what I believe I am. Some Christians use other terminology that is either shallow, like Christian, or it does not line up with God's Word. E.g. "believer" is very shallow because what is it you believe in. Jesus says I must be born-again and so I am.
---Helen_5378 on 12/26/06

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Helen ... # 1 Tautology is saying the same thing twice over in different words.
It is grammatically correct fro a Christian to say "I was born again on such and such an occasion"
But it is tautology to describe oneself as a "born-again Christian" because both "born-again" and "Christian" mean the same thing
---alanUKquent64534 on 12/26/06

Helen ... # 2 Plus, in my presonal experience (those I have met who call themselves that) it seems to be saying "I am a better sort of Christian because I am born-again and you are just an ordinary Christian"
---alanUKquent64534 on 12/26/06

Actually, "born again" IS one word in Greek: anagenis.

I'm not too sure what this has to do with the true history of Christmas, which has nothing to do with Tammuz, Mithras, Nimrod, or Saturnalia.
---Jack on 12/26/06

AlanUKquent - I don't know what tautology is. I usually write "born-again" to make it sound just like one important word, rather than "born again". But then, who cares? As long as people understand what is being said. :o)
---Helen_5378 on 12/26/06

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Helen ... I was feeling a bit cross when I wrote that, having read someones blog that reeked of exclusivity, that unless certain words were used, what happened to us was not important.
But words do have a period when they are in fashion. When I was saved, the word we used was "converted" ... and we were "born again", not "born-again" (which was not used as an adjective)
All Christians have been born again, and to describe oneself as "born-again" is tautology
---alanUKquent64534 on 12/24/06

Sorry Helen to have put it that way ... it rather hid what I was trying to say about celebrations.
The idea of a saviour sacrifice preates Christianity. Does this mean we should reject Jesus as saviour? NO
So why should we reject celebration of His birth here as a man, just because others have celbrated the birth or death of other (false) "deity figures"?
---alanUKquent64534 on 12/24/06

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