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Christians Debate Those In Cults

Should Christians even debate, argue with non-believers or those in cults? Does not the scripture say, "take not council with the unGodly?

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 ---Beck on 1/13/07
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Clay swings with a left,
Clay swings with a right,
Look at young Cassius
Carry the fight.
Liston keeps backing
But there's not enough room
It's a matter of time.
There, Clay lowers the boom.
Liston is still rising
And the ref wears a frown,
For he can't start counting,
Till Sonny comes down.
Now Liston disappears from view.
The crowd is getting frantic,
But our radar stations have picked him up.
He's somewhere over the Atlantic.
---Cindy on 2/11/08

It's not a sin for me to blog on Sunday.

But you would not find a good Mormon man blogging on Sunday. Nope. You're not a mormon. The entire day is to be spent with the family and in church. So the "Mormon" boy may be your profile of choice, but you're not a Mormon. That's why I can throw the rest of your routine out the window, evolution, bail, pop and fizz.
---Cindy on 2/11/08

Cult>>>A system of religious worship. Jesus is not a cult. No Christian should ever debate or argue over scripture. Satan is the great debater. >>Good morning everyone. I hope you had a great weekend.>>>The scripture that you mentioned means, his conduct is not shaped by worldly standards, nor standeth in the way of sinners> he does not make his association with evil men, and nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful> he has no fellowship with those who scorn God.
---catherine on 2/11/08

Good advice. I am going out today and buy me a spellchecker. Thank you Jesus for reminding me. I can not wait.
---catherine on 2/11/08

Labeling, one must label for frame of reference. Condemning, I soundly condemn the historical abuses of many ecclesial groups whose fruits were far far from Godly, history is stern judge. As to individuals, there are multitudes far more Christ-like in disposition then I in other religions, religions that I wholly disagree with, (and some with no religion at all.) If I am evangelizing something it is pluralism (free agency)
---MikeM on 2/11/08

Cindys fallacy here is a simple AD HOMNUM attack, to deflect from the issues raised. The attack was about blogging on Sunday yet she is blogging as well (?) or that I might watch the BYU channel. Its good to see such contemplative in-depth substentative content.
---MikeM on 2/11/08

Mike"bail"M: Buy a dictionary or atleast use an online spellchecker! Your spelling is almost as bad as your reasoning. :)

"evangicalism"? No! "evangelicalism".
"arbretrary"? No! "arbitrary".
"usege"? No! "usage".
"eccleastical"? No! "ecclesiastical".

---Leon on 2/10/08

Do like Wendy Duncan's book, MikeM.?
---Cindy on 2/10/08

Well, MikeM., this I know, you're not a mormon. I'm thinking that's part of your profile, "mormon boy".
There's not a mormon man out there that would call themselves that. Aside from the fact that what you know is from the internet, the LDS would not spend their Sundays blogging. Nope, those days are reserved all day for church and family only. You're not a mormon boy, it's possible that you watch the BYU channel though.
---Cindy on 2/10/08

You do have a routine down, though. But it's limited, it only takes you so far then it fizzes out.
That's the problem with all of these profiles and resumes, they can only take you so far, then they leave you hanging off of a cliff #1 or cliff #2. They fizzle and it becomes necessary to rifle through the rolodex and pull out another one.
There's a repeat schedule and a couple that I'm expecting to see recycled any time now.
---Cindy on 2/10/08

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

...labeling, condeming, judging everyone who doesn't subscribe to a particular faith doesn't show me where Jesus is in their life

MikeM may not have enough quotes for you all ...but he sure knows how to drive home a relevant point in his last post
---Rhonda on 2/10/08

500 years ago the 'protestants' were all 'cult'-heretics according to the RCC.

400 years ago the RCC was slaughtering protestants, protestants were killing, persecuting other protestants, and all took time off from killing to fight Muslims and persecute Jews.

Who is the 'cult,' the 'heretic' changes with the times and seasons, its a fluid word, rendered meaningless by its arbretrary usege.

Where was Jesus in western history? Clearly not in 'traditional' eccleastical bodies.
---MikeM on 2/10/08

Purpose driven church is a cult.
Mormonism, which you're not really a part of MikeM., JW's, SDA's are only a few of the well known cults. But accepting all these cults and their views is indeed a value that the purpose driven church follows.
Why can't we all get along, and they will in their apostate church that enjoys crowd surfing more than getting out of the boat and following Jesus Christ.
---Cindy on 2/10/08

Cult-has anyone thought of looking up the word cult in the dictionary? cult is defined here as anyone not 'of the majority view in this culture,' and the prevailing view in this culture is evangicalism and fundamentalism, therefore everyone else is deemed a 'cult.' This is to say the least a capricious standard. Like love and freedom, 'cult' is an abused word. The common denominator of Christianity is defining what Christianity is.
---MikeM on 2/10/08

I observe the Sabbath and very unsure how this makes me part of a cult.

I don't eat the foods God has told man to not eat and I'm not an adventist now thats interesting that I have the same truth as the SDA's and yet I'm not observing that faith.

I know demons exist as this is Satans world until Christ returns ....but a doctrine of demons? ....very interesting I have never heard of that one these are the things that you deem one as being part of a cult? how odd...
---Rhonda on 2/9/08

Rhonda - very true that false teachers are arising at an alarming rate, but we need to point Christians to the Word of God rightfully dividing the word of truth.

And like all the cults they claim new revelations and teach doctrine of demons - such thing as abstinence from certain foods - Aventists as well as observance of days - Sabbath.
---lee on 2/9/08

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False preachers are multiplying deceiving the masses as Satans rule here is coming to and end - being replaced with Christ returning to rule ...Mark 1:15
...kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. The gospel is a message of Gods Kingdom here on earth ..thats the plain truth in Gods Word and still some ignore this verse ..a religious cult is easily defined by pointing fingers ...but does it stand up to the Word of the Bible?
---Rhonda on 2/9/08

the difference here, at least as I see it, is I'm not taking council with anyone (maybe others are?), nor am I trying to convert others (as some appear to be hoping they can do)...someone in another post judged my response by telling me I was an SDA just because of what I wrote ...much of what I have written and quoted from the Bible in response to others has been ignored or has been met with such anger and hositility it makes me wonder what spirit some feel they are led by
---Rhonda on 2/9/08

1Thessalonians 5:21 prove all things ...I think MikeM (despite such harshly written things against his postings) has many interesting things to say ...If the Bible tells us to prove all things we could do this stricktly with prayer meditation on Gods Word ...I chose to post on this blog despite the emotionally charged responses because the information I learn from some has been helpful....
---Rhonda on 2/9/08

...every religious system could be viewed as a cult ...the catholic religion has created books for their followers ...baptists hold the belief of the rapture ...and on and on ...if you are outside of their viewpoint these organizations could fit the definition of a cult as much as SDA JW Mormon or whatever other religious beliefs others hold ...
---Rhonda on 2/9/08

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Balance the idea of being involved with the great commission and preaching good news with faith that God's word will not return to him void. Is. 55:11

There's no reason to fight and argue with unbelievers, (save that for your brethren :) It's never been our effort that gets someone to come to Jesus anyway, it's the work of God in us, and we must have faith while praying for the laborers to be sent into the harvest.
---Pharisee on 2/8/08

*Even if we say a denomination is a cult. Where did the definition come from?*

Even if an exacting definition is hard to come back, one can always use the old duck-duck test; namely IF it looks like a duck, walks & quacks like a duck, THEN most likely it is a duck.

Cults have characteristics such as extra biblical authority, reject some basic doctrines of the faith long established, hateful of other christians, consider themselves the remnant, called by God for some special mission, etc.
---lee on 6/7/07

Who are the ungodly? You don't even know. Even if we say a denomination is a cult. Whose to say? Where did the definition come from? All of that has to be decided. Does not matter. God always has the last say anyway.We will all know one day. Worship where you want. Believe as you will. God will do the judging. Not us.
---Robyn on 6/7/07

Proverbs 12:12
The root of the righteous yieldeth fruit.

Luke 3:9
..the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree...

Isaiah 11:1
Romans 11:16-18
Prov. 12:3
Jude 24
Heb 2:18
Heb 12:15-17

Antichrist spirit
1 John 4:2-4
1 John 2:18-23
2 John 7
---Michelle on 6/7/07

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Deut. 18:10-12
Acts 16:16-18
Ezek 12:23-24
Jere 14:14
Micah 3:6
---Michelle on 6/7/07

I'm using the KJV.
There is no book, other than THE BIBLE when dealing with roots, for deliverance. It's the only Book that delivers, with Power.


Prov. 17:11
1 Sam. 15:23


Nahum 3:4-6
Gal. 5:19-21
1 Sam 15:23


Ps. 31:18
Ezek 13:6-7
Eph 4:25
II Thess 2:8-12
Zech. 8:16
Isa. 32:6
Col. 3:9
Lev. 19:11
---Michelle on 6/7/07


Prov. 6:34
Heb. 10:15-17
Song of Sol. 8:6


Hosea 4:10-19
1 Tim 1:10
Heb 13:4
Eph. 5:5
Ps. 106:39
Ps. 73:27-28


Eccl. 7:8
Prov. 16:18
Prov. 11:2
Prov. 13:10


Prov. 16:18
Isa 3:16-17
Isa 10:33
Ps 131:1


1 Ti. 4:1-5
Matt 6:2-8
Jer 23:15
---Michelle on 6/7/07


2 Ti. 3:13
Prov 12:26
Mark 13:22
II Peter 1:1-19


Heb. 12:15-17
James 3:14
Eph. 4:31

Hardness of heart

Eph. 4:17-19
Deut. 2:30
---Michelle on 6/7/07

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There are many, many more scriptures.

The power twins for deliverance, prayer and fasting.

Witchcraft in the Church.
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness;
considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Gal. 6:1
---Michelle on 6/7/07

Michelle - what book are you using as a source for your postings?
---lee on 6/6/07

A rebellious spirit is witchcraft to God.
Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.
The root here is witchcraft/rebellion against God. Rebellion against God leaves an opening for a root to grow and gives an entrance for a spirit of oppression. In this case, the spirit would be the spirit of divination.
---Michelle on 6/6/07

Cults operate with an antichrist spirit. You will recognize the spirit of antichrist by confusion, condemnation, strife and division.

An antichrist spirit is a warring spirit; it produces a fierce, violent battle and a constant state of hostility.
It produces lying and fear.
It produces control - dominating and demanding submission.
---Michelle on 6/6/07

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Jesus Christ shows us how to deal with the roots.
Luke 3:9 Lay the axe to the root, cut and sever with the Word of God.
God's Word is a two edged sword. Replace the root with the Word of God.

Jesus Christ, the Word, is the axe to be laid to the root. Any root or tree that does not yield good fruit is to be hewn down by the Word of God.

Jesus Christ is the replacing root:
Isaiah 11:1,
Romans 11:16-18
Prov. 12:3
---Michelle on 6/6/07

Those coming out of cults need to be healed. The damage was caused by the entrance of a root that has never been dealt with.

Rebellion and rejection of Christ produces an unbeliever
warfare against Christians
blasphemes gifts of the Holy Spirit
mocks/takes away from the Blood of Christ
opposes Jesus Christ
carnally minded
---Michelle on 6/6/07

The root of witchcraft and the spirit of divination produces

fortune telling
casting spells
calling up spirits
imitates word of knowledge
---Michelle on 6/6/07

The root of salvation
The root of Jesse: Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit of God

Kindness, goodness
Temperance, forebearance
Meekness, humility
---Michelle on 6/6/07

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Charlene, 'Your answers reek of the spirit of rebellion'-Rebellion against who?

Saying someone is 'full of the devil'is a classic cop-out, the fact clear fact is when ones argument is failing they resort to personal attacks,as thier ideas, beliefs cannot stand up to free inquiry, making it clear who has lost the debate.
---MikeM on 6/5/07

MikeM., you don't quote Scripture because it's not in you. Now you are full of opinion and it's all about your self, so full of self. I don't believe it would be possible for you to quote Scripture. Your answers reek of the spirit of rebellion. You are a Mormon, and are following a doctrine of demons. It's possible you are demon possessed.
---Charlene on 6/4/07

Mormonism is a cult. We shouldn't allow them into our homes for debate or council.
MikeM. & Ashley are here to defend their belief in a cult. Ashley has demons following him and I think MikeM. does too. How do we know if we're talking to them or the demons?
---Charlene on 6/4/07

Lee; W Martian said that on Dennis Pragers radio show, about 1987, I have it on tape.

As to the allegation, it appears to be out of character for Dr. Walter Martin; not known for his anti-Semitism. Perhaps he was quoting Martin Luther.
---lee on 6/4/07

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Charlene I do not quote scripture as it is self serving. Anyone believing anything can quote scripture, it has been used to support slavery, subjucation of women,evil regimes, etc. A 'Bible verse' can be found for any purpose.

I still do not know why FREE INQUIRY offends you so.
---MikeM on 6/4/07

Charlene, why do you that maxim of mine offensive is free inquiry offensive?

Lee; W Martian said that on Dennis Pragers radio show, about 1987, I have it on tape.
---MikeM on 6/4/07

If one's faith cannot stand....I can't stand that saying. Isn't it time you found some new lines, the old ones are really boring, stale, like eating waterlogged crackers.
MikeM., don't you know any Scripture?
---Charlene on 6/3/07

MikeM - Debate is expository, those those who -smugly- dislike debate fear it. True faith has NO fear of debate.(exposure)

Very good! And that is one reason the Jehovah's Witnesses will not participate on forums of this nature. They have been forbidden to by the head organization.

But we must encourage those that debate to recognize that some of their beliefs are simply not tenable.
---lee on 6/3/07

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MikeM - *This walter martin said jews are children of the devil-he also said 'dinosaur bones were created by the devil,' both these comments are on tape,I think we can dismiss this Martin fellow.*

And can you reference that quote so I can research it.

In these days, we find many diverant types trying to prove their points by attacking and slandering the messenger.

PLEASE give me the source!!!!
---lee on 6/3/07

MikeM., nothing you speak of would further a Christian's walk.
Your replies are all from your head, no Scripture, and no Christ-like replies.
You got nothin'.
---DePuTy on 6/3/07

Robin-"No we are not to debate and argue over the Word of God"- "If ones faith cannot stand the test of free inquiry its finished"

Debate is expository, those those who -smugly- dislike debate fear it. True faith has NO fear of debate.(exposure)

I am reminded of some religious people I knew who considered 'debating questioning types,' in other words 'thinkers' to be more immoral than murderers, rapist, criminals, why?
---MikeM on 6/2/07

Deputy-Yes, to fundamentalist all non-fundamentalist are considered cults.

My comments canonized by who?

"You won't remember anything Ive said." The human mind is like a parachute, it only functions when open." Deputy-Whatever my faults may be, being crippled by closed-mindedness, and smugly being proud of it is not one of them.
---MikeM on 6/2/07

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Walter Martin was an evil cult leader. I see he still has a cult following.
---Jerry on 6/3/07

This walter martin said jews are children of the devil-he also said 'dinosaur bones were created by the devil,' both these comments are on tape,I think we can dismiss this Martin fellow.
---MikeM on 6/2/07

While according to the dictionary definition a bigot is one intolerantly devoted to his or her own prejudices or opinions, what do you call those that earnestly seek the truth and "content for that faith once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 3)"?


And are we not to attempt to "save others by snatching them out of the fire; ..., hating even the garment stained by the flesh"? Jude 1:23

Or is it better to leave people in their spiritual bondages?
---lee on 6/2/07

Websters dictionary does not define the Word of God. No book ever written is a higher authority then the Word of God. We are never to put any natural man or woman'w writing over the word of God. Now you know. OK. This blog can teach you something after all.
---Robyn on 6/2/07

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We (believers) are not taking council with the ungodly. We are giving council and godly(hopefully) council, at that. No we are not to debate and argue over the Word of God. But we can discuss and share our points of view and understanding according to the bible.
---Robyn on 6/2/07

There is indeed a problem as to what people consider to be a cult, particularly in view of the fact that the dictionary gives a very wide interpretation.

"...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religion; and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect; but if you fear or hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfefffer
---lee on 6/2/07

Some would prefer to stick to the definition that Walter Martin gave in one of his books.

"A cult, then, is a group polarized around someone's interpretation of the Bible & is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christians faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ." - Walter Martin in The Rise of the Cults.
---lee on 6/2/07

God's people are not to strive. You cannot pin your religion on someone elses sleeves, they may not wear it. Take not council with the ungodly means not to associate with them. Be nice to them, just not buddy buddies. God is extremely strict on this with me. He actually got in my face a couple of times and said," What have you got in common with unbelievers"? Ofcourse I said, "NOTHING". What could I say. Oh, feed the people and give them something to drink.
---catherine on 6/2/07

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We are to expose cults and false beliefs.
Go to any Bible bookstore, and you will find mormonism, JW's in the cult section. (You find SDA's in there, too.)
MikeM., your Jeffersonian quotes really haven't helped me with Scripure. Your lack of biblical (canonized and Christ-like replies haven't helped me either. You give us a piece of your mind, but I can't say that I'll remember anything you've said. It hasn't helped me with my Christian walk.
---DePuTy on 6/2/07

Blatant bigotry, even in a religious context, is an ugly thing. To call others who take the name of Christ "cultists" is to denegrate their relationship with their Lord, to classify them as unfit for fellowship with God's people, and to Lord over them in self-rightous judgement. Jesus said "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (Mat 25:40)" This is supposed to be a Christian site. Act like it!!!!
---Jerry on 6/2/07

As to what a cult is it depends who you ask. Some say its a religion that hurts people, some say itsd any religion that is new, fundamentalist say a cult is anyone not them. I have seen fundamentalist book stores with loads of books on 'apologetics,'that is anyone not them.

In reality book stores touting such books attacking other religions says more about those at that church than all the books say about the other church's they deem as cults.
---MikeM on 6/2/07

No one uses Websters definition, of 'cult' why is that?

Any one can write a book attacking, 'repudiating' a former religion.

Debates & arguments are expository by nature, thus those who have things to hide avoid them completly. True FAITH HAS NO FEAR OF FREE INQUIRY therefore debate is only the enemy of the devil.
---MikeM on 6/2/07

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Colleges offer courses in apologetics which enables one to defend against the beliefs of cults and non-believers.

And we see many books being written by former cult members repudiating the beliefs of any particular cult.

Such debates & arguments often drive one deeper into the Word of God and can be used to help deliver those that are ensnared in the cult system.
---lee on 6/1/07

Gef, the question (as most here understood it anyway) was NOT about doing 'public evangelism' in crowds of people who never asked to know about Christ, but rather about debating certain issues with those who are already 'speaking out' AGAINST Christian beliefs! There's another possible issue here at CN; which I directed to Beck (who began this blog!), but he has yet to reply! Everyone wishing to post here would do well to first review the other posts.
---danie9374 on 2/12/07

Beck, thats your choice, if you want those you call such names to know truth, then why not get them to have lunch etc with u and share with them the Christ? Theres a good chance 4 u to tell them about the Lord.
---jana on 2/12/07

No, because not only is it REALLY annoying to non-christians, but it serves no purpose other than letting the christian get his belief off his or her chest. Christians trying to convert everybody is one of the most widely made fun of steretypes and the more they try to convert people the further they push "sinners" away. If someones going to be a christian they'll take to that path on their own when and if they're ready.
---Gef on 2/11/07

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DePuTy - often cults have other sources of authority besides the Bible and the teachings of that extra authority is used to interpret the Bible. That is why some view the Seventh Day Adventist church as being a cult.
---lee on 2/4/07

We as true Christians have a responsibility to advise people who are NOT walking the true path GOD wants us to take. This is not judging others, look at (Jude 22) "Be merciful to those who doubt; SNATCH others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear-hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh." There is a big difference between a man's opinion and the Word of GOD (The Bible is a book of guidance given to us by GOD, we must follow it).
---DePuTy on 1/30/07

The problem here is not the debate. It is the judgemental attitude of some on this blog site. Those who judge may well loose out in the heavenly citizenship. Do not judge lest u also b judged.
---jana on 1/30/07

God's true church is an organism, not an organization. Satan is having a field day everywhere, and of course he is focusing mostly on the christians. True brotherly love can keep us able to agree to disagree and stand for what you know to be right. When we cannot agree, we should pray for one another and continue to worship as best we know how and not to judge. God will show us ALL someday where each one of us was wrong about something. And praise God for His mercy and love!
---audrey on 1/24/07

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MikeM - what you have pointed out is that even recognized denominations that are not considered cults based on their literature, can very well be just as toxic.

Just as you would not ask a plummer a question about quantum mechanics, you would not ask a non-theologian questions regarding the Bible or Christian living. Most people within the churches nowadays are more likely to be Bible carriers rather than students of the Word.
---lee on 1/23/07

For a time I was raised in-around born again fundmantalist. At 16 It was time to leave. What led to it? I began to ask questions, ones they could not answer, all I would get is anger, or a glassy blank look. 20 years later I ask the same questions, same response. When they found out i was attending cal state they made the disowning final. They in fact disowned several family members, my neice at 15 for 'rebellion.'-meaning desiring to attend college. We are all accused of being in 'cults.'
---MikeM on 1/18/07

Beck (and ALL): After re-reading my recent post to Lynet; could this be what YOU had in mind:
'Why are those with known 'cult beliefs' allowed to continue posting here?' Please reply! Is that what you meant?

That would, therefore, mean that Christians could end up taking 'the counsel' of false teachers; as Beck said. BUT ANY MEDIA (ancient marketplaces, TV, books, etc.) has always been susceptible to this problem! It's WHY the Apostle John asked us WARN and protect 'new Believers'!
---danie9374 on 1/17/07

Lynet, That's very true; I've always disliked the 'stereotypical get-in-your-face' portrayals by the media of preachers and 'evangelists' AND of course, any who so act that way. Sometimes it's UNDERSTANDABLE when a family member does so; their LOVE 'clouds their better judgment' so to speak, BUT DEBATES (not arguments) are supposed to have audiences (and Moderators!), and I'd hope CHRISTIANET has concerned readers who appreciate the input.
---danie9374 on 1/15/07

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What I see increasingly is that the fundamentalist here do not see the need to 'back up' theirclaims, making faith statements as fact statements. When in debate, they see they are not 'winning' they simply run, bail, 'throw in the towel.'
An open debate, dialectic should not be a threat to those who claim the truth. Anytime I see this everytime I 'get into depth' on a subject. I was raised one should back up whatever they postulate as truth, and absolute truth, the more so.
---MikeM on 1/15/07

Pat, Jesus was speaking about WHOLE CIITES that refused to welcome His disciples when they came to spread the good news! (see: Mt.10:14; Mk.6:11; Luke 9:5; 10:11) And when Paul did so, it never stopped him from going into the NEXT synagogue after being kicked out of and 'shaking the dust off from' the last one. WHAT WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO is greet FALSE teachers and wish them well; as if agreeing with them!
See: 2 John 1:10-11.
---danie9374 on 1/15/07

I love sharing the gospel, but if someone does not wish to hear it, I won't force it on them.
---lynet on 1/15/07

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