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Sovereignty And Our Free Will

Has any one figured out how the sovereignty of God meshes with our free will, do they work hand in hand? If God has every thing planned out, then how are we responsible?

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 ---Jim on 1/22/07
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God is completely sovereign! The fact that man has a free will does not interfere with that sovereignty. Manage free will is to be used to exercise his choice in acceptance of Almighty God. However God's sovereignty remains intact throughout. As does his grace. Good both can only be applied to our world through our permissive acceptance of what God has provided for us. God does not override our free will or else he would destroy our free will.
---Mima on 7/4/07

God allows the wicked, the unbeliever, to enter hell Eloy. They are already headed that way. They love what they do and do not want or even care to know the Lord. The true born again Christian loves the Lord and has Him as his Lord and Savior. He is not complete but is always reaching for the goal. The wicked has no goal to shoot for. He loves his father the devil. I just hoped that you can see how you place the same people together and send them all to hell.
---Lisas on 2/10/07

2. You also state I am not saved and that only means that you can see my heart. If you can then you have elevated yourself into a god. Which is what you seem to impose to others that challenge you. That you are the right one and all others are fake. One thing I learned from studying Scripture and the church, is to our right of private judgement of God's word. We have a duty as Christians to "Prove all things"
---Lisas on 2/10/07

3. When I say the duty of private judgement, I mean that God requires every Christian to use the right of which I have spoken, to compare man's words and Man's writings with God's revelation, and to make sure that he is not deluded and taken in by false doctrine. I've done my duty Eloy, you are deluding God's word and taken in by false doctrines. Further more, you do think you are a god, that no one should even try to question. The very thing the reformers fought against. You are like an infallible pope.
---Lisas on 2/10/07

IJohn 5:14-15 shows that God is bound to His word. His word is His will. Psalm 138:2. Jeremiah 1:12. Isaiah 55:11
Isaiah 43:26.
In all of those scriptures God is showing He has made a covenant with Himself to do what His word says.(Hebrews 6:12-19)
---Rickey on 1/28/07

God did give us Free Will. However, I believe that as sons and daughters of the Lord, if we use our free will and get lost, he will find us and put us back where we belong.
---Pat on 1/28/07

In my case I do not see that I have much choice. If I do, I get to live. And if I don't, I get to die. God actually said that to me folks. He said, "if you mess up, I will send you back where I found you."
---CATHERINE on 1/28/07

Yes, they work hand in hand. Our all-knowing, eternal God knows what we will choose before we are even presented with a choice. He also has given us knowledge of Him since the beginning. As Paul discusses in Romans 1 and 2, humans are held accountable because we know the truth, yet at times deny or suppress it through unrighteousness and there are consequences that go along with doing so.
---AlwaysOn on 1/28/07

1 Samuel, chapter 15

10: "Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,"

11: "It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king:
for he is turned back from following me, and hath not
performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he
cried unto the LORD all night."
---NanaH on 1/27/07

.lisa, I do not contradict myself, and as I have told you before lisa, you will never see the truth until you get saved, but instead you will see contradictions where there are none. So as you do not understand the words of God which I post, and you commonly ask where my words are found in the Bible, I will tell you again, first: "Get saved", and again, "Look it up."
---Eloy on 1/27/07

lisa, your thoughts do not change God's truth that he destroys all sinners, even those who "think" that they are his children when they are not. You live in sin you are thrown into the lake of fire by God whom you "think" would never do such a thing. Just as he destroyed every person off the earth, saving Noah and his family only. So your thoughts are outside of God's thoughts, and he will destroy every single sinner whom "thinks" that God would never do such a thing to them.
---Eloy on 1/27/07

What about holy fear of God? This is what gets me a moving. And it seldom feels good. But every night I have to lie down in my bed, and look at God right in His face. If I obey, I can do that. If I don,t obey God, my eyes darts all around the room, and I am in trouble.
---CATHERINE on 1/27/07

pt.1: God does not violate anyones freedom of choice to either obey or disobey him. When man abuses his freewill to disobey, then he limits God. God cannot work in a person's life if the person refuses him. Jesus did not do many miracles in some cities he went to because of the people's disbelief. If you choose to dis God, than how can God really bless you. Unless two are in agreement, they cannot walk together.
---Eloy on 1/27/07

pt.2: God has his Master plan in action, prophecies happen. His predestinated plan is not closed, for prayer is interaction with God. God predestines people and events to happen, yet fated theodicy is changed by prayer and fasting; God changes his mind when a one abases themself to him. Please read how God did not bring his predestined word against Jezebel's husband Ahab, because he repented. I Kings 21:20-22; I Kings 21:27-29; 22:51-53; II Kings 1:1-4,17; Ezekiel 18:20-32; 33:10-20; James 5:17,18.
---Eloy on 1/27/07

Eloy, you contradict yourself in your statement. You say God choose you, and because they choose their own free will, they were distroyed and He choose another" Now where is that passage? And you end with, "He accomplishes His will, when you just said that men choose their will? How can God do His will when you say men did his own will? Either God does His will are men does his, and the final salvation is dependent on you and not on God.
---lisa on 1/27/07

2. We are not puppets but His children. Would God disown his children. I don't think so. God will never give up on you no matter what. He will carry you through the worse times in your life. He will never abondand you, no matter the cause. He will never leave you, no forsake you. He is Lord of all things and men is but clay. All of God's pleasures will be complete and His plan will end the way He has stated and no men can change or move His hand, or His plan for all of us.
---lisa on 1/27/07

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It is a Parent and child relationship, with God being the Father and we his child. The child is not a puppet or a robot of God, instead the activity is real and interactive, where God ultimately has his way, for he is God. Some were "chosen" by God, but because they chose their own will over God's, they were destroyed, and God "chose" another, and so he accomplishes his will. God knows the end from the beginning, but he does not force anyone to obey or disobey his will.
---Eloy on 1/27/07

Rickey, Show me from Scripture where It says that God is bind by His Word? In what case is He bind? If you are saying that He is not to interfere with men, as pleases Him, you are wrong. "God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this He called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ" 2 Thess. 2:13,14.
---lisa on 1/26/07

2. For we know, brethren beloved by God, that He has chosen you; for our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction' Christ even mentions the condition of lost men, and know, that without Him a lost person would stay lost. "So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy" Romans 9:16. And what you are saying is that God cannot interfere with men. Which is not true at all. He is Lord, and Savior.
---lisa on 1/26/07

3. I have been found by those who did not seek Me; I have shown Myself to those who did not ask for Me" Romans 10:20 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask of The Father in My name, He may give it to you" John 15:16. A lost person has to be brought to life by the Spirit, and made able to believe, by faith, and full conviction by the Spirit to repent.
---lisa on 1/26/07

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God said in His word,"before the creation of the world, I DECIDED TO SAVE ONLY THOSE PEOPLE who believes THE FOOLISH MESSAGE OF THE CROSS".
---CATHERINE on 1/26/07

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
---Trace on 1/26/07

Dear anonymous, thank you. I said to God not to long ago, that I want to be different. I suppose He is taking me up on it. Infact, a few days ago He reminded me of my request. ha.
---CATHERINE on 1/26/07

I'm enjoying reading Catherine's point of views. I'd rather read 1 Catherine, than 5000 blah blah... dead as a doornail book reports.
---anonymous on 1/25/07

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Lisa, you know that God wants the whole world saved, but because not everyone chooses to recieve the free gift of righteousness, not everyone is going to be saved. God CANNOT pick & choose only certain folks to get saved. John 3:16 shows that He wants all saved, but only those who believe/put their faith in Him get saved.
Romans 10:9-10, shows that it's upto the person to recieve salvation.
---Rickey on 1/25/07

God sovereignly chose to bind Himself to His word. We didn't bind Him to it, but He did. Because He is bound to His word He has to do what His word says.
---Rickey on 1/25/07

Sovereign-having supreme rank, power, or authority

Yes, God has supreme power, rank, & authority, but He has given man a responsibility to do their part. Take prayer for instance, if a person doesn't ask in faith then God cannot answer their prayer.(Hebrews 11:6) As a matter of fact, man is equal with, not to, God.(Psalm 8; Philippians 2:5-6) We were created a little lower than God. We're in His class.
---Rickey on 1/25/07

Instead of God as Creator and man as his puppet creature, I know best God is my Almighty Father, and I his own son. Now I know his plans and what he desires for me to do, but it is up to me whether I love him enough to follow his will. But if I choose not to listen and obey my Father, then I must pay the consequences for my poor choice and suffer condemnation. Either choice I make, my Father is still the one ultimately in control of me, we can either be blessed or damned according to what we choose to do.
---Eloy on 1/25/07

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It is our responsibilty to go with the plans that God has for us. Now I know that is too simple of an answer. In my case, it is either DO or DIE. Even Paul said,"I know that I am doomned if I don't preach."
---CATHERINE on 1/25/07

6. Is it possible to somehow create faith in our hearts while lost. All the passages that speak that a person lost cannot understand spiritual things, how was I suppose to believe in Christ when my eyes were close, and no ears to hear? I use to began my theory with men first. But now I start from God first. Men is but clay as Daniel has quoted. He is formed by The Potter whichever way He wants to form him. I released all my human efforts and turned them to God.
---lisa on 1/25/07

2. and there is none else! (means no other God's) I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" Isa. 46:9,10. Now this passages are pretty clear to me. God's word is true all through Scripture, not just in one part but all of God's Word. He does as He pleases. Now I don't see anywhere in those passages to mean anything other then what He said.
---lisa on 1/25/07

3. Now you say that if He could, then everyone would be saved. Don't you believe that if God wanted to save the whole world He could do it? Do you not believe that if He wanted He could bring salvation another way in order to bring everyone to salvation? The reason you cannot make since with much of who God is, and His Sovereign authority is because you believe man can in some case defeat God's will in some way because of their free will, and that man, who is not only a creature but a
---lisa on 1/25/07

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4. sinful creature, can exercise veto power over the plans of Almighty God, is so far from the Truth of Scripture. Everything, is According to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His will." Through out the Bible the laws of Nature, the course of history, the varying fortunes of individuals, are ever attributed to God's providential control. All things, both in heaven and earth, from the seraphim down to the tiny atom, are ordered by His never-failing providence.
---lisa on 1/25/07

5. Rickey, let me explain. The first five years of my Christian life, I use to read all those passages and I would just say, great, God is awesome. I continued to read and study, but never used all of Scripture and only stood by what I had been taught. Those passages and many more concerning God are the most critical in all of Scripture. No wonder I was so far off in salvation, sanctification, and the rest. How does one come to Christ, while lost with no faith?
---lisa on 1/25/07

Rickey, If God does all His pleasure, as He tells us in Scripture, what do you have trouble with? His Word or putting His word confirm to what you believe? If you believe that there is men out there that can frustrate the will of God, then what you are saying is that according to you those verses don't mean what they say. Let me write one down that you don't have to go get any hermeneutical books, all you have to do is just read it in full. "Remember the former things of old: for I am God,
---lisa on 1/25/07

I can see what Rickey is saying. God will never go against His Word. Whatever He says in His Word that He will/will not do.
---Helen_5378 on 1/25/07

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Beautiful scriptures Lisa.
---jhonny on 1/25/07

God cannot do what He desires. If He could none would go to hell. None would be sick. God is not even the god of this world.(2Corinthians 4:3-4) Satan is the god of this world & he blinds the minds of unbelievers. If God can do whatever He wants to then why isn't He stopping satan from blinding unbelievers to the truth?
---Rickey on 1/25/07

Just because God has a plan or desire for a person doesn't mean that they will SUBMIT to Him & do it. I'm not saying that God is any lower than the bible says, but I am saying sovereignty is so misunderstood by so many christians that they blame God for everything or wonder why He didn't do something not knowing that God has given us dominion & w/o us using it He is limited in being able to do somethings.
---Rickey on 1/25/07

Lisa can God MAKE you not go to this internet site? No. God's sovereignty isn't Him in control of us like we are robots. He can't make/force anyone to get saved, healed, delivered, etc. Take Jesus for instance, He could've chosen not to do the will of the Father, but HE SAID,not God,"Nevertheless not My will(desire), but Your will be done."
Yes, ultimately God's will will be done in folks lives, but not in every area because we have a free-will.
---Rickey on 1/24/07

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What is it about the verses that I put down that you do not understand? In Him,(means because of Him) we live and move, and have our being" What is so hard to understand that God can do what He so desires? "He is of one mind, and who can turn Him? (and how about what you just said that He couldn't do what He wanted?) "And what His soul desireth, even that He doeth" You are seating there telling us He cannot do what He wants. Are we to believe you?
---lisa on 1/24/07

2. "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps" do you get that Rickey? If the Lord directs the steps of man, is it not proof that he (Man)is being controlled or governed by God? again,"There is many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand" Can this mean anything less than, that no matter what man may desire and plan, it is the will of his Maker which is executed?
---lisa on 1/24/07

3" The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: He turneth it whithersoever He will" Proverbs 21:1. What could be more explicit Rickey? Out of the heart are the issues of life" for a man "thinketh in his heart, so is he" Proverbs 23:7. If then the heart is in the hand of the Lord, and if "He turneth it whithersoever He will," then is it not clear that men, even governors and rulers, and all men,
---lisa on 1/24/07

4. are completely beneath the governmental control of the Almighty? I really don't know which God you have been reading about Rickey, but the one you discribe is not the one from Scripture. At least not the one I have read of. "The counsels of the Lord stands forever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations" He even makes it clear when He says, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isa.46:9,10).
---lisa on 1/24/07

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One other point I wanted to make to you Rickey is, that God does bless even evil men around the world. Many of them have many great things and live much better then many Christians. They don't deserve it. If God wanted, He could take their lives right this minute. But He has a time and purpose for everything Rickey. Everything. I believe the reason you might be shocked on what I said is because you have different believes, and those believes don't reconcile with the whole of Scripture.
---lisa on 1/24/07

My point in saying what I said is to show that GOD CANNOT DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO DO.
If He could everyone would be saved, but only those who believe shall be saved(John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10) Same w/ prayer, healing, etc. God cannot do whatever He wants to whenever He wants to. For instance, if a person doesn't pay their tithes He cannot give them the blessing(empowerment to prosper) because they aren't be willing & obedient.
---Rickey on 1/24/07

rickey ,God gives you free will, but to answer your is written all men live and then are judged. I guess you will find out then what God can do.
---tom2 on 1/23/07

I'll say it again,'just because God is sovereign doesn't mean that He can do whatever He wants to'. God can't answer your prayer w/o you praying in faith.(mark 11:24) God can't make you get saved(Romans 10:9) Christina, show me scripturally that God can do whatever He wants to do.
---Rickey on 1/23/07

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Great answer Pharesee, all, from beginning to end in present in His sight. He is outside of time, and never does He gain knowledge. He knows the hearts of everyone even before they sin. He is Sovereign and Lord of Everything. Not one molecule is roaming around without His knowledge. Not one molecule, or person or event can change what is to come for if it did, He would gain knowledge of that thing and would not be sovereign.
---lisa on 1/23/07

2. "In Him we live, and move, and have our being" Paul did not hesitate to affirm that they lived and moved and had their being in God, which signified not only that they owed their existence and preservation to the One who made the world and all things therein, but also their very actions wre encompassed and therefore controlled by the Lord of heaven and earth. Just read Daniel 5:23. To insist that some men, at least, do thwart God's will and overturn His counsels,
---lisa on 1/23/07

3. is to refuse to believe many explicit passages that speak of God's sovereignty. But He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? and what His soul desireth, even that He doeth" Job 23:13. The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations" Psa. 33:11. "There is no wisdom nor, understanding nor counsel against the Lord" Proverbs 21:30. For the Lord of hosts hath purposed,
---lisa on 1/23/07

4. and who shall disannul it? And His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?" Isa. 14:27. "Remember the former things of old: For I am God, and there is none else! I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" Isa. 46:9,10. God's word is pretty clear who He is and no one can change anything He purposes.
---lisa on 1/23/07

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5. So Rickey, you are very wrong about your statement. God has already done it, and it is finished in His sight. We are but creatures completing His plan, and your actions and distiney is already written whether in the book of life or not. All names have been written from the foundations of the world.
---lisa on 1/23/07

Rickey "God being sovereign doesn't give Him the right to do whatever He wants"

I disagree. God has every right to do as He chooses, although it IS true that He WON"T force certain things...big difference. It's His choice, which is one of the wonderful characteristics of our loving God.
---Christina on 1/23/07

Just because God knows what you are going to do does not negate your ability to choose weather or not you do it.
---Ryan on 1/23/07

God being sovereign doesn't give Him the right to do whatever He wants to do whenever He wants to. For instance, He can't force a person or pick a person to get saved.(Romans 10:9) puts the emphasis on us. He can't force a person to get healed, prosper, etc. It's His will for it, but He won't force it on us. His sovereignty shows that He is Ultimate & Supreme.
---Rickey on 1/22/07

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Phil, may I suggest that you are working with a false dillema? There is no tension between grace and free will, because grace establishes our free will. Without him we can do nothing. The fact that we have free will is no more contrary to God's grace, then the fact that we can think, have two arms and legs, etc. This is how the Lord saw fit to create us as human beings. The important thing is how we use our will. Shall we serve Christ or rebel against him?
---Climacus_Redivius on 1/22/07

Do you suggest Phil that God has an ordained life for all of us, and that he has ordained that most will not be saved, and therefore they are under a commandment to continue in their sinful ways, so that God can enjoy sending them to hell and watching their everlasting agony?
---alanUKquent64534 on 1/22/07

Everything is not finished yet. God has not judged the rich and elite yet.
---tonne on 1/22/07

God is sovereign; being in a state of Free Will is being an a State of Rebellion Against God. Until one renounces free will and accepts Gods preordained plan for you life you will not achieve salivation. First God must chose you for salvation and offer his grace. If you still chose to reject his Grace and exercise Free Will you are among the lost.
---Phil_the_Elder on 1/22/07

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In God's place of existence Everything is finished, there is no next week while next week surely exists as we know it.

Jesus said there is nothing hidden that shall not be laid bare.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 says we've got the world set in our hearts, that we can't fully grasp what's been done by God from beginning to end.
1 Corinthians 13:9-12 shows me our knowledge is to have a limit now.
---Pharisee on 1/22/07

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