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Jack Chick And Roman Catholics

Do you think what Jack Chick says about the Roman Catholic church is true or not?

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 ---george on 2/8/07
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Akina-About the Immaculate conception? Where is it found in the Bible?

Where in the bible does it say , if a doctrine like the "Immaculate conception" has to be in scripture...Where does the bible provide a list of the canonical books of the New Testament?
---Ruben on 12/31/07

About the Immaculate conception? Where is it found in the Bible? NOWHERE That is because it is a doctrine of devils. Also if Mary is so HOLY why not just CRUCIFY her and not Jesus? It's because she was born with sin, ever read Luke, she offered up a SIN offering at the temple. But since Catholics are told not to read the BIBLE you probably wouldn't know that. BIBLE: BASIC INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE LEAVING EARTH, you will be gone a long time so I suggest you start reading it.
---akina on 12/21/07


I posted only a portion, because of the annoying 85-word limit. Before I did so I looked at all the words I deleted to make sure they did not alter the parts I left in.

Do a web search for "Kaddish" for the full text.

Can you cite a particular chapter and verse in Maccabees that indicates that the Jews prayed for the dead? I have been to several Jewish services and have never seen anything of the kind.
---StrongAxe on 9/8/07

Dont know a thing about this comic book but the Immaculate Conception refers to the virgin birth of Mary.
---alexia on 9/7/07

The first time I read the ALBERTO comic book, two things were obvious to me:

1. Alberto was not and never had been a Roman Catholic. (E.g., saying "Immaculate Conception" means that Mary was likewise virginally born.)

2. Jack Chick doesn't know what he's talking about.
---Jack on 9/7/07


Jude 1:14
"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints"
He is quoting the apocryphal Book of Enoch. He also quotes from the Assumption of Moses, the Testament of Naphtali and the Testament of Asher. (This does not mean that he considered them inspired, but the fact that he quotes them as part of inspired scripture tells us that he at least considered them in high regard)

[Formerly Mark]
---StrongAxe on 9/6/07

Formerly Mark, the Jews did and still do pray for their dead. They mourn (and pray for) their dead for a one year period, after which the dead go to what we call heaven. If the person was damned, after one year they are destroyed and are no more. The mourner's prayer is the "El Molai Rachamim", but the Kaddish also has a form that is used that way and when used as a mourner's prayer it is said on behalf of the dead.
---lorra8574 on 9/6/07

Formerly Mark, you had to have known that you posted only a piece of the prayer. Any Jewish website would have shown that there was more to this prayer than just praise and glory - which it certainly does involve.

Maccabbees shows that the Jews have been actually praying for their dead since before Jesus was "born", so it is no surprise that they continued this practice - they also still practice "Chanukkah" which has its roots in the events recorded in Maccabbees.
---lorra8574 on 9/6/07

George, do you suppose that there might be a sound reason for not carrying Jack Chick tracks? And do you truly believe that Jack Chick is an actual historian with any serious credibility outside of the business of Anti-Catholicism?
---lorra8574 on 9/6/07


Have you actually read any articles on how the King James Version came to be written? There is a good one on Wikipedia.

The first (1611) edition had the Apocrypha, and variant readings, and appendices. There were many minor changes made since then (mostly spelling irregularities due to the fact that at that time, rules for consistent spelling of English were only starting to be widely used).
The version we use today is based on the 1769 edition.

[Formerly Mark]
---StrongAxe on 9/6/07


Actually, the Jewish Kaddish (mourner's prayer), while a part of synagogue liturgy, is a prayer of paise, NOT a prayer "for the dead". In fact, death is not mentioned at all:

"Glorified and sanctified be God's great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will. May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days, and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon, and say, Amen. ..."

[Formerly Mark]
---StrongAxe on 9/6/07

Cubby: Go to jack chicks web page and you will see a lot of historical information on the RCC. Its n excellent web page and I agree with mr Herb its a shame that so called christian bookstore quit carrying chick tracts. Now its not that I back the baptist above all, not at all, because I don't want to recommend any church but I want to recommend Jesus.
---george on 9/6/07

tofurabby. I agree that alms don't get you to heaven because I don't take just one verse by itself and make a doctrine. But you discredited Tobit and didn't discredit Matt. for quoting Jesus himself as saying to an unsaved man that if he sold everything and gave it to the poor he would have treasure in heaven. Both say heaven is a reward for giving but neither is giving all information on the subject.
---john on 2/22/07

2. Here's a book the Church could have chosen to include IF there was an agenda soley to support "Catholic" doctrine..


Ignatius, and the brethren who are with him, John the holy presbyter.

"WE are deeply grieved at thy delay in strengthening us by thy addresses and consolations. thy absence be prolonged, it will disappoint many of us. Hasten then to come, for we believe that it is expedient. con't
---augusta on 2/21/07

3. There are also many of our women here, who are desirous to see Mary [the mother] of Jesus, and wish day by day to run off from us to you, that they may meet with her, and touch those breasts of hers which nourished the Lord Jesus, and may inquire of her respecting some rather secret matters. But Salome also, [the daughter of Anna,] whom thou lovest, who stayed with her five months at Jerusalem, and some other well-known persons, relate that she is full of all graces and all virtues...

---augusta on 2/21/07

4. after the manner of a virgin, fruitful in virtue and grace. And, as they report, she is cheerful in persecutions and afflictions, free from murmuring in the midst of penury and want, grateful to those that injure her, and rejoices when exposed to troubles... Moreover, she shines forth gloriously as contending in the fight of faith against the pernicious conflicts of vicious principles or conduct. She is the lady of our new religion and repentance."
---augusta on 2/21/07

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Good presentation John T. Unfortunately also for the benefit of the "Cathlotic Herbashers" down below. I forget, do they eat meat.
---jhonny on 2/20/07

"This is said only by people who have not read the books called Apocrypha." Jack, I have read the entire rc apocrypha and I simply don't think it matches the rest of the Bible. I recommend everyone to read the whole Bible. John: thank you for bringing up that information about the councils... for the general benefit. God Bless
---george on 2/20/07

The Council of Trent is the Nineteenth Ecumenical Council of the Roman Catholic Church. It was convened three times between December 13, 1545 and December 4, 1563 in the city of Trent as a response to the theological and ecclesiological challenges of the Protestant Reformation. It specifies Catholic doctrines on salvation, the sacraments, the Biblical canon and standardizing the Mass throughout the church, known as the "Tridentine Mass"

---John_T on 2/20/07

The Roman Catholic Apocrypha consists of Tobit, Judith, the Additions to Esther, the Additions to Daniel (the Prayer of Azariah and the Three Young Men, Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon), the Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus (also called Sirach), Baruch (also called 1 Baruch), the Letter of Jeremiah, 1 Maccabees, and 2 Maccabees. The Greek Orthodox Church adds 1 Esdras, Psalm 151, the Prayer of Manasseh, and 3 Maccabees, with 4 Maccabees in an appendix.
---John_T on 2/20/07

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The Greek Orthodox Church adds 1 Esdras, Psalm 151, the Prayer of Manasseh, and 3 Maccabees, with 4 Maccabees in an appendix. The Russian Orthodox Church adds 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Psalm 151, and 3 Maccabees. The Roman Catholic canon places the Prayer of Manasseh, 1 Esdras, and 2 Esdras in an appendix without implying canonicity.

Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology
---John_T on 2/20/07

The Christian scholar Jerome (ca. 331-420) labeled most of these books as apocryphal and did not include them in his translation of the Bible, the Vulgate (Vg). During the Reformation, Protestants gathered the books of that kind then current in Western Bibles into a separate section following the ot under the title Apocrypha. Works so treated usually include:
1 Esdras
2 Esdras (4 Ezra)
---John_T on 2/20/07

The Rest of the Book of Esther
The Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiasticus (Sirach)
A Letter of Jeremiah
The Additions to the Book of Daniel:
The Song of the Three Children (with the Prayer of Azariah)
Bel and the Dragon
The Prayer of Manasseh
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabee

Harper's Bible dictionary.
---John_T on 2/20/07

TheVulgate became the standard Bible of the Western church, and the writings that Jerome set aside as apocryphal were added to its text from the OL version. Up to Reformation, an awareness of Jeromes position persisted in the West.

In the Protestant Reformation, the Apocrypha became involved in disputes over doctrine. 2 Macc. was used to support the idea of purgatory and masses for the dead, while others claim good deeds bring merit, counter to Martin Luthers emphasis upon grace.
---John_T on 2/20/07

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Under the influence of Jerome, Luther gathered the apocryphal books into one section at the end of the OT in his 1534 edition of the whole Bible and gave this section the title Apocrypha. He indicated that these books were not of the status of Holy Scripture but could be read profitably.

In England, editions of the Geneva Bible began in 1599 omitted it and the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646-48) equated it with secular literature.
---John_T on 2/20/07

. .The Church of England, on the other hand, resisted this tendency and INCLUDED readings from the Apocrypha in its lectionary. In 1827, after a decade of particularly acrimonious debate, the British and Foreign Bible Society refused to support continental societies that circulated Bibles containing the Apocrypha.
---John_T on 2/20/07

Catholic response to the Protestant treatment of the Apocrypha was to affirm their canonical status. On April 8, 1546, the Council of Trent declared anathema anyone who did not accept the whole of the Vg as canonical. The edition of the Vg intended includes all of the disputed works with the exception of 1 and 2 Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh. In later Catholic editions of the Bible, these three books are sometimes printed in an appendix.

Harper's Bible Dictionary
---John_T on 2/20/07

Caring sain, " Herb is a "Herbatic" or "Herbistant"".

Does that mean he does not eat meat?
---Observer on 2/20/07

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**Wanna read the apocrypha too? do it! The word of God cuts like a double edged sword, the imitation doesn't.**

This is said only by people who have not read the books called Apocrypha.
---Jack on 2/20/07

Just so you will know, I am neither Catholic or Protestant. ---Rev_Herb on 2/19/07

Herb is a "Herbatic" or "Herbistant"
---Caring on 2/20/07

Sorry all... but Tobit is saying that alms save you. "alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin" is WAY different than storing up treasure in heaven. Can you purchase salvation? Hardly.

Jack you want a quote from Christ that contradicts this? Ok. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Notice it's not, whosever giveth alms.
---tofurabby on 2/20/07

There are plenty of other contradictions between the apocrypha and the Bible, I just chose to show a couple of the more simple ones.
---tofurabby on 2/20/07

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Augusta - It is a deceiving spirit that has led you to the RCC. God will never lead anybody to that corrupt organisation full of heresies. If you truly had gotten saved as you said you had, then just how could you have let yourself be led astray like that? Were you really saved do you think? I read your post to George, and to have gone from an "alive" church to a "dead" one is unbelievable. Please seek the Lord on this before it is too late.
---Helen_5378 on 2/20/07

CATHOLIC friend, Protestant cousin, and Christian Brother, I ask you: Have you already read the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation? Have you allowed the Word of God to enter your mind? I encourage you: do it! Don't believe what anybody says, read it yourself!. Wanna read the apocrypha too? do it! The word of God cuts like a double edged sword, the imitation doesn't. So read them! what are you waiting for? The world needs you! Don't be a follower of men, but of Jesus! (no copyright bibles recommended)
---george on 2/19/07

George: "Augusta: were you a protestant"


"oh! that's really tough to take."

It sure was. Protestantism is utter chaos. :o

"what kind of protestant?"

Charismatic, Holy Spirit-filled nondenom.

"what was your denomination?" See above

"what was your father's?" Non-practicing Lutheran

"your mother's?" Non-practicing Methodist.

---augusta on 2/19/07

2. "were you raised protestant?" I was raised basically to be a protestant "believer." I came to the Lord on my own at at very early age.

"Its so sad that protestantism is so lost in America that kids resort even to catholicism!"

I wasn't a kid when I converted. And what's so sad is that protestantism is so lost period.

"How did you get introduced to catholicism?"

The bible and the Holy Spirit.
---augusta on 2/19/07

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tofurabby. If you discredit Tobit 12:9 then you also should discredit Matt 19:21 which says that if you sell everything you have and give to the poor(alms) you will have treasures in heaven. If Matt. is ok. then so is Tobit. They say the same thing.
---john on 2/19/07

tofurabby. If you discredit Sirach 12:4-7 for wishing ill to the enemy then what about the many Psalms of David?
Ps. 143:12 " have no mercy and destroy all of them"
5:10"destroy them oh God"
59:11"scatter them, bring them down"
69:22 "let their table become a snare"
69:23 "let them become blind"
69:24 "pour out your wrath and anger on them"
69."let them be blotted out of the book"
---john on 2/19/07

Alms have much value and store up treasure for us in Heaven.
Matthew 6:1-3
Luke 12:33
Acts 10:4
Acts 10:31
---lorra8574 on 2/19/07

** Jack: Are you DENYING that the books called Apocrypha were originally part of the KJV? Sorry, but they are.

Sorry, but you need to do research on the Councils of Dort and Trent.

EACH came before the KJV of 1611**

Trent and Dort have nothing to do with the simple fact that the KJV and earlier and later English Bibles were translated WITH the books called Apocrypha/Deuterocanonicals.
---Jack on 2/19/07

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Part 2:

You obviously are WAY out of your depth.

The Synod of Dordt was in 1618 SEVEN YEARS AFTER the publication of the KJV.

Get your facts straight next time before you try tanging with me.
---Jack on 2/19/07


Tobit 12:9 "alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin."


1 John 1:7 "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin"

Hebrews 9:22 "without shedding of blood is no remission"**

First, these words you quote were NOT said by Jesus but by Apostles.

However, the words Jesus Himself said about salutariness almsgiving in Matthew 25 are quite in keeping with Tobit.
---Jack on 2/19/07

The Apocrypha was part or the early KJV bibles just as maps and other references are today. It was placed in there for information and was never concidered part of the inspired word, just as maps and other things in the KJV today. So maybe you need to do more research?
---Rev_Herb on 2/19/07

Just so you will know, I am neither Catholic or Protestant.
---Rev_Herb on 2/19/07

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Jack: Are you DENYING that the books called Apocrypha were originally part of the KJV? Sorry, but they are.

Sorry, but you need to do research on the Councils of Dort and Trent.

EACH came before the KJV of 1611
---John_T on 2/19/07


Tobit 12:9 "alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin."


1 John 1:7 "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin"

Hebrews 9:22 "without shedding of blood is no remission"
---tofurabby on 2/19/07


Sirach 12:4-7 "Give to the godly man, and help not a sinner. Do well unto him that is lowly, but give not to the ungodly; hold back thy bread, and give it not unto him... give unto the good, and help not the sinner."


Luke 6:27-30 "But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you... Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back"
---tofurabby on 2/19/07


Wisdom 8:19,20 "For I was a witty child, and had a good spirit. Yea rather, being good, I came into a body undefiled."


Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Romans 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
---tofurabby on 2/19/07

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Augusta: were you a protestant? oh! that's really tough to take. what kind of protestant? what was your denomination? what was your father's? your mother's? were you raised protestant? tell me please. Its so sad that protestantism is so lost in America that kids resort even to catholicism! that's like when a fish jumps from the frying pan to the fire! How did you get introduced to catholicism?
---george on 2/19/07

**If you did, you would clearly see that a lot of what's in there go's against what Jesus said.**

Are you DENYING that the books called Apocrypha were originally part of the KJV?

Sorry, but they are.

Be specific, giving book, chapter, and verse about what is in the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical books that conflict with what Jesus says.

Bet you can't!
---Jack on 2/19/07

Lorra: You can't blame Chick for his errors. I was state certified to teach college level courses and was responsible for developing the business curriculum for a local college. I found a lot of errors in many of the textbooks including math. Not just typographical errors but downright lies especially concerning history. I can't remember what I had for breakfast a week ago let alone What George Washington had for breakfast before he crossed the Delaware.
---Steveng on 2/18/07

Lorra: who decides who is a historian? the government? you? tell me, please. I think the one who is a historian is the one who says the truth. How do we know who says the truth? investigating and looking for proofs. Are there proofs for what Jack Chick says? Yes, abundant, overwhelming. And my natal southamerica is a proof too, for myself. I don't recommend to believe right away what anyone says no matter who. I was deceived in the past by the pope and I deceived others too. do your homework.
---george on 2/18/07

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Jack: you are wrong. the first old testament had only the protocanonics. The jews, who were the ones who compiled the old testament books, did NOT accept the apocrypha. The Bible in the time of Jesus, the one He quotes, didn't have the apocrypha. Tell me where he quotes from the apocrypha, if you can? Deutero: second. they were approved by thye rcc in a second council, hence, they were added.
---george on 2/18/07

No Catholic or Protestant who loves truth would ever give Jack Chick any consideration. When I was a Protestant my best friend and I discovered the lies interspersed in his writings very early on in our studies.
---augusta on 2/18/07

Jack, you think that your many writings can supress the truth, but it's all in vain. You cannot hide the truth! Your the one that is wrong. Obviously you don't read these extra books that the Catholic church put in. If you did, you would clearly see that a lot of what's in there go's against what Jesus said. You are the one who is ignorant of the truth. Yes, your efforts are in vain, so you can write to your hearts content, but it will do you no good. Your belief is built on lies. The truth always wins.
---Jason on 2/18/07

Jack, I thought I heard everything, until now. Go ahead, try and prove that these extra books came out of the King James version, especially the 1611. I dare you! I want to see this. You can't be just making this stuff up, Jack. You have got to tell what really happened. Your just fishing for excusis now. Do you cheat in games too? You can't just make up your own rules, you'll be found out every time.
---Marie on 2/18/07

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Jack- Those books don't jive with the rest of the bible. Why put false teachings in there? I believe that the King James version is the most accurate bible. Everybody should read it. God bless the people that read it.
---Kent on 2/18/07

Lorra, If you studied history, then why are you still catholic? I'll tell you why. Because you are not born again.
---Peterxcatholic on 2/18/07

**and the Jews still pray for their dead to this day - as part of their sacred liturgy.**

Prayer for the dead was a definite part of the Synagoge services at the time of Our Lord's earthly sojourn, and He NEVER said anything against it, as He did about certain other practices at the time.

In fact, He shows His approval of this practice of the Synagoge by frequenting these services and even taking a leading part in them.
---Jack on 2/18/07

The late Dr. Walter Martink, no great friend of Roman Catholics, did some research at the time of the publication of the ALBERTO comic books.

The result of his research is available on the web.

In fine, Alberto never was a clergyman, Jesuit or otherwise (which I could tell from just the misstatements of Roman doctrine in those comics) and had a very lurid reputation.
---Jack on 2/18/07

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Lorra: I found serious doctrine differences I have read all the deuterocanonics since I was a rc and my bible was rc. For two examples: in tobit, in order to destroy the curse over the serial widower, they had to get a fish, take the guts, burn them, and then pronounce certain words. Sounds like vodoo to me. Doesn't sound like how God works, in the rest of the Bible.
---george on 2/18/07

2 In the book of "wisdom" its said that the manual workers as the farmer, the carpenter, are basically stupid, and that the wise man dedicates his time to study books and that he will be seen with the kings. In deed, the manual workers were the ones who recognized the King Jesus when they saw him. The NT says: work with your hands. There is something Godly about manual work that the work of a lawyer, for example, or a politician, doesn't have.
---george on 2/18/07

3 I think carpenters should be in congress and in the pulpits because they know how is work like and their common sense can outsmart the stupid laws that some intellectuals pass. Every christian should be a hardworker and women should know how to cook, at least. If everyone were lawyers (smart, smart people) how would we eat? but if everyone were farmers, carpenters, mechanics, etc, then everybody would eat. Books, sadly, are required to raise oneself bonuses in this antinatural society.
---george on 2/18/07

4 Ans ultimately, God is the one who knows the hearts and even a lawyer or a politician could use their bodies to promote what is just and fair. usually what is just and fair is politically incorrect and these people have to be politically correct . God Bless the lawyers and politicians so that they stop following the herd and stand strong for what is right! we need some of those...
---george on 2/18/07

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Vincent, I studied history long before I received my spiritual conversion to God. Jack Chick is NOT a historian and should not be promoted as one. I have read the historical stylings of Dave Hunt and some of Jack Chick and the historical tracts from the J.W.s - only one who knows little or nothing of actual history would find any of them to be believable. Don't get me wrong, they have enough elements of truth to be very convincing to those who want to believe them. But not the whole truth.
---lorra8574 on 2/18/07

None of the Deuterocanonical books contain anything that contradicts what is found in the rest of the Canon of scripture. I have not seen a single shred of evidence. I have had Protestants object to the practice of praying for the dead (Maccabbees); however, this does not contradict anything anywhere else (provide a verse) and the Jews still pray for their dead to this day - as part of their sacred liturgy.
---lorra8574 on 2/18/07

**The Catholic Bible has books added that come into DIRECT contrast with the truth of sacred scripture.**

* W * R * O * N * G * !!!

Actually, post-reformation protestants REMOVED them.

These books are part of the ORIGINAL King James of 1611.

In fact, the first major English version to OMIT them is the New American Standard Bible of the mid 60's.
---Jack on 2/17/07

Lorra, you said to cubby.."It works better if you know nothing of Christian history."

Who are you kidding? Sounds like a prelude to brainwashing. Don't send him down the Catholic road. The Catholic Bible has books added that come into DIRECT contrast with the truth of sacred scripture.

cubby, The advice I can give you is, to get a King James version of the Holy Bible. Look up "Chick Publications" on Google. You'll find out a lot of info there. God bless.
---Vincent on 2/17/07

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Sorry folks, Am I reading the same posts. I re-read them, I don't get it. What's all this liar, willful sinner, deliberate insulter, hit on Eloy talk. There must be some carry-over or something.
---jhonny on 2/17/07

Lorra: maybe the info about the fallacies of the roman church is easy to find because it is abundant and proofs are overwhelming. Instead, try to find fallacies about people who didn't hurt noone (pacifist denominations) and you won't find that much. But revelation says tht at the end the nations will turn around against the ho' and destroy it. So I guess somehow people will understand and come to see what's evident.
---george on 2/17/07

Lorra: Tell me, who's the ho' if not Rome? What other city has seven hills AND has made pacts with the rest of the world (fornication with kings), AND has perpetrated so many wars and burned so many people? (drunk with martyrs blood) and has a leader that exalts himself above everything that is called God?(pope, the representative of God on earth) which, if not Rome? Which city gathers all those characteristics at once? which is the ho of revelation?
---george on 2/17/07

BRUCE5656, I just believe Eloy is very zealous, but zealousness must [ALWAYS] be used with [tact],we can't allow "self" to get in the way, I had to learn this, God taught me that. It's all too easy to get "caught up" in zealousness while not noticing the small still voice of the Holy Spirit at times, we have to learn to wait for that voice, then act, or else make a mess of things, not being the [fruitful] soul winner God wants us to be. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 2/17/07

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Bruce. I have come to the point that whenever I see that initial period, I automatically skip over the post looking for the author. Then I determine if the post is worthy of my reading it; if know its author is NOT Eloy, I read it.

I have neither the time, nor the inclinations to deal with delusions. His stubborness brought this reaction upon himself.
---John_T on 2/17/07

MR_GEORGE, I've seen his website, but haven't reviewed it thoroughly, I ordered his catalog, I believe that many of his tracts can be very helpful. The extreme anti-Catholic tone I don't agree with, it can be a deterrent to some, some may assume he is neglecting to expose [ALL] the false doctrines on [both sides] Protestant & Catholic. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 2/17/07

I'm sorry Lorra, with all due respect, I'd rather not go the Catholic route. One thing God showed me is that all of their doctrine is not of Him. I just wanted tp know more about it so I can witness to others of the dangers there. God bless you.
---Charles on 2/17/07

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