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Catholics And Protestants Same

Since The Catholic Church has introduced many of Luther's protests, and his followers' protests, into Catholicism i.e getting rid of simony, indulgences, inquisition, introducing vernacular into worship etc is Protestantism becoming redundant?

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 ---Ed on 2/18/07
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Disciple=Student,Pupil,follower, a learner
that becomes a teacher, Hopefully!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 4/27/08

Isn't a disciple of Jesus Christ someone who does things that Paul did. Example: forsake all and follow Jesus Christ?

Also John chapter 15
verse 7-9 (king james version) read:

7: If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8: Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit, so shall ye by my disciples.

9: As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
---Sharlene on 4/26/08

The Jews rejected Christ because they said that no-one could add to the laws of God. As Christians we believe they were wrong.

St Paul wasn't a disciple of Jesus. And yet the New Testament is full of St Paul's teachings, which he believed, and we believe, were inspired by God.

The Bible is the heart of Christian teaching. Jesus is the heart of our faith. But God doesn't communiate to us solely through Jesus. He communicates to us via his prophets and messengers as well.
---Ed on 4/18/08

Andrea, you already have a common blog, and most of the replies are yours.
---Crystal on 8/29/07

In 2006 Roman Catholic Church and The Lutheran World Federation signed the Joint Declaration on Jusitification, thus bringing an end, effectively, the main bone of contention of the Reformation. The declaration was subsequently signed by the World Methodist Council. Believe other Protestant Churches have also signed (?).

This is amazing. And a giant step forward towards Christian Unity. Christian Unity pleasing God in general, as well as pleasing Him by working together to spread Christianity.
---Ed on 7/9/07

Ashley: You stated" Fact: the book of Maccabbees and many other catholic books were written by the scribes of the pope in order to deceive members into believing their own doctrines and blinding them to truth " Please prove this statement and where you got this Info. !st Maccabees was written about 100 BC what Pope would that have been?
---Johannes on 7/8/07

Helen the key word's you used were "almost always" but not always a lot of the time.
---Johannes on 7/7/07

Today the Catholic Churches are in some places leading people to faith in Christ just like the Protestant Church is. However today some Protestants and Catholic churches have left the faith and are teaching doctrines of demons. In this way they are redundant. It is imposible to judge the Catholics and the protestant churches as a whole because of the deception that has entered into some churches and the false teachers who are promoting legalism over faith in both churches.
---Marcia on 7/6/07

Today the Catholic Churches are in some places leading people to faith in Christ just like the Protestant Church is. However today some Protestants and Catholic churches have left the faith and are teaching doctrines of demons. In this way they are redundant. It is imposible to judge the Catholics and the protestant churches as a whole because of the deception that has entered into some churches and the false teachers who are promoting legalism and over faith in both churches.
---Marcia on 7/6/07

Ashley::could you produce Proof to your fact statement.Or is this one more of your inspiraions,aimed at trying to make your point sound valid.You know that Machabees is in existance eons before you even knew the word.Beware of wolves in sheep'sclothing.
---Emcee on 7/6/07

Fact: the book of Maccabbees and many other catholic books were written by the scribes of the pope in order to deceive members into believing their own doctrines and blinding them to truth. that is why they contradict the bible in every way. second: everyone calls people cults that use more scripture than the 66 books of the bible. why is the catholic church not called a cult for using a catholic bible that contains many extra books not contained in the KJV of the bible. food for thought.
---ashley on 7/5/07

Johannes - God almost always confirms His word by saying the same thing in more than one place.
---Helen_5378 on 7/5/07

Helen 5378 I take it from your statement" You say that Purgatory is supported by the Book of Maccabees. Given the huge importance placed on Purgatory by the RCC it would definitely be in many more places in God's Word if it were true."so I take it you beleive the more times it is in the Bible the more important it is to God is that right?
---Johannes on 7/5/07

First Dave, are you Morman Dave? There are at least 3 Daves on here, mabye more.
---Liz on 3/7/07

Sam Correction, Catholics always heed the warnings of Christ, especially when the world changes. Since when do God's Laws change when the times do? If all the world decided to run naked and switch marriage partners every Thursday, that is not sufficient reason for me to follow suit.
---lorra8574 on 3/6/07

.erica, you wrongly group cults together with true born-again Christians. When you call the true false, that is blasphemy. Jesus says, "If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep your's also. If they have called the Master of the house Beelzebub, how much more them of his household? But all these things will they do to you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me."
---Eloy on 3/7/07

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Catholis and Protestant, are the same. Some are true believers and some are not. Any idiot should know this.
---catherine on 3/6/07

One of you should change his blog name; I suggest that the newer one do that. For example you could use
Dave Utah, or
Dave the Latter or
Dave 2

That will stop the confusion.

---Observer on 3/6/07

Dave, Thank you so much. You may not believe or understand this but I love you too as I really do all of the Forum Family. That is why I speak as open as I do.
I accept your "big smooch." Please don't send it dressed in black suits with black ties and the BOM though. (Hey that was just a joke. Get that frown off ya face.)
---Elder on 3/6/07

Other Dave, was this comment some kind of joke or were you being for real?
---Cynthia_1 on 3/6/07

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I know where Catholics go wrong. They believe anything that their church tells them, even if they change things, but they refuse to listen to the warnings of Jesus.
---sam on 3/6/07

I'm Dave. I am a Mormon, but that doesn't mean I don't love you all.
Pucker up, buttercups. I'm sending love, kisses, and a big smooch for Elder.
---Dave on 3/6/07

Other Dave, What are you talking about?
---Dave on 3/6/07

What Dave? I have no idea what you are trying to say?
But to answer the question, I beleive the face of the church, is now doing a complete about face, God is on the scene, God is doing things, EXTREMELY, different on the earth right now, the church as we know it will be unrecognizable to us, A COMPLETE change is now underweigh.
---Cynthia_1 on 3/6/07

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I hear wailings at night. I see bands of demons marching down the street, it scares me.
---Dave on 3/5/07

Sue, Maccabbees are two historical books that are found in the Catholic canon. The Jews removed these books after Christianity began to rise. Christians used the Greek Septuagint in the early Church and so the Jews rejected all books that were written in Greek or for which no Hebrew original could be found. The Books of Maccabbees cover a very important period in Jewish History including the foundation of one of their most important religious celebrations - Hannakkah.
---lorra8574 on 3/5/07

Sue, 2 Paul refers to some of the martyrs in these books in his Hall of Faith discourse in Hebrews. And knowing about these historical books provides a lot of insight into Judaeo-Christian practice. For example, both Jews and Catholics pray for their dead during their religious services. Both believe that there is a place where the saved persons cleanse themselves prior to entering Heaven where nothing impure may enter. This practice is found in Maccabees and shows that it does predate Christianity.
---lorra8574 on 3/5/07

Sue, 3 Of course, the Dead Sea scrolls which were buried around the time of the fall of Jerusalem now show that these books also existed in Hebrew. In fact, all but one of the Deuterocanonical books were in Hebrew in their cave of scriptural writings, the last one was found only in Greek, but not all manuscripts survived. The Deuterocanonical books are the seven books that were removed from the Christian canon by Martin Luther during the Reformation. God bless.
---lorra8574 on 3/5/07

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Sue 4, FYI Protestants do not accept the canonicity of these books as the Jews have dropped them from their canon. So when Catholics refer to these books on this site, it is as a historical reference only. But, please feel free to ask for clarification whenever you see something unfamiliar. Ignorance is not a sin, and it is easily remedied.
---lorra8574 on 3/5/07

Sue:::Its a couple of Historical Chapters in the OT which were left out while compiling the KGV I believe.It is included in the NSRV.
---Emcee on 3/5/07

Xcatholic::In order for you to give Authentic, Proof You would need to go there.Unfortunately,there is no way Back. But you will remember, Heck!! I should have listened more as a Catholic,I am in a pickle now . WHAT!!
---Emcee on 3/5/07

Lisas::You really are an emotional lady.Tender & sweet.Just do what common sense dictates. Leave em to stew in their own ignorance.God knows what He is doing & His plan will not change for Anyone. It is set in stone.Argueing who is right or wrong is useless.Man must WANT to Change attempt to change look to attain perfection before God steps in to effect Repair.
---Emcee on 3/5/07

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Please forgive my ingnorance but could somebody tell me what is Maccabbees? Thanx.
---sue on 3/5/07

2. I didn't understand this was a problem until I joined this website. I had never in my life heard what I have heard here from a true Christian. I thought all Christian were the same, maybe not know what others knew but not the backstabbing, name calling, and condemations I hear here. It really gets to me many times and I want to quit, but I try my best not to let my emotions get in the way of what God wants me to do.
---Lisas on 3/5/07

3. Some have even ask the Mod. to not allow this people to write anymore. That is how serious it has become. Continue expressing your love Ed and just do the best you can. You and I cannot change anyone, only God can. Through the Spirit God gives us the desire to learn more and understand more through His Word. All we are called to do is to bring the Truth and God will deal with the rest. Salvation comes from hearing, the Word of God.
---Lisas on 3/5/07

Maccabbees, is not scripture. It is an abomination mixed with some truth. It goes directly against what Jesus preached. It was put there by the Catholic Church. Once you die, that's it. No second chance. You have to make your choices now on this side of eternity. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS LYING TO YOU. I DARE you to give solid proof that Pergatory exists. And please don't say that you hear screams from tormented souls, because that is insane. I will reveal to you my findings when your through. PROOF.
---X_Catholic on 3/5/07

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Maccabbees, is not scripture. Do not believe me alone. Study the scriptures. Maccabbees does not line up with the rest of God's Word. The Catholic Church is a mess and any genuine Christian is fully aware of this. The end is near now. If anyone puts down the Catholic Church, immediately they are accused of putting down the Catholic people. Not so, but I believe if Jesus walked the earth today He would be rebuking the religious Catholics and others who live in a false rightousness. I was a Catholic too.
---Rick on 3/5/07

Dave ::If I told you yes from members other than catholic would you believe me?I thought so.You have to believe to understand.Be like a child for such are as these.
---Emcee on 3/5/07

Alan::MY Friend the saying is "If you do the crime you do the time."But the TRUTH IS "Nothing defiled enters Heaven" so a process of expiation is incurred. What kind of torment? I do not know but it is a cleansing to make one white as the driven snow to meet the requirement.
---Emcee on 3/5/07

Emcee ... What you say sounds logical, but why on earth, or in heaven, should a loving God torment people who He is going to take to heaven anyway?
---alan_of_UK on 3/4/07

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Pete said: "I study scripture, I know that Pergatory is impossible"

How do you interpret this from Maccabees?

"For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin."
---Catherine12345 on 3/4/07

Pergatory does not exist. When I was Catholic they fed me this untruth. It could give someone a false sense of eternal security. There is NOTHING in scripture that backs up Pergatory. This myth is only in added books of a church doctrine. You would do better to pray for the living. After you die, that's it. I really hate to hear that some person believes in Pergatory, because I know they are going down a dead end. What you did with your life will be judged. Your church is lying to you!
---a_christian on 3/4/07

Emcee, Have you heard these wailings and cries from your so called Pergatory?
---Dave on 3/4/07

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---Erica on 3/4/07

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Marie Pete Rose:: My answer to you is the same as What I told Xcatholic.If you could hear the wailing & cries for prayers By people in torment IN PURGATORY you will pray 24/7/365out of pity. But no one hears because you did not believe in PURGATORY & the MERCY OF Almighty God .YOU could land up There & be the next wailer in torment.
---Emcee on 3/3/07

Matthew 5:20 and especially 21-48; Matthew 7:21; Matthew 18:3; Matthew 19:23
Most better hope that there is a Purgatory or Heaven is going to be empty.
The Jews who Protestants hold solely responsible for the OT Canon do believe in praying for the dead for a period of one year, after which the dead who have merited Heaven go there. These are not the damned, but only those who they believe are saved.
---lorra8574 on 3/4/07

1 Pet 3:18-20: For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us back to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which *he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey*

Since no one is saved from hell, and those in heaven would not be considered "in prison," this gives us a third place - the temporary place of purgatory.
---Catherine12345 on 3/3/07

Read 1 Peter Chapter 4. 1 Peter 4:5-6 says: "but they will give an account to him who stands ready to judge the living and the dead. For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like God."
---Catherine12345 on 3/3/07

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Of course, the clearest proof of purgatory is in 2 Maccabees 12:44-45:

"For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin."
---Catherine12345 on 3/3/07

In Matthew 12:32 we read "whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come." Since sin cannot be forgiven in Hell and there will be no need for sin to be forgiven in heaven, we can deduce that there is another place, a place of purification of those going to heaven. Remission of sin "in the next age" takes place in purgatory.
---Catherine12345 on 3/3/07

Read 1 Cor 3:10-15. At the end it says, "If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, BUT ONLY AS THROUGH FIRE (emphasis mine).
---Catherine12345 on 3/3/07

There is nothing stopping a Catholic picking up a Bible and reading it from front to back as much as a Protestant or anyone else.
---Ed on 3/3/07

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I love Catholic people and I was a Catholic for a long time, then the real Jesus came into my life and it started to change. First, a few big changes, like how I prayed to God and what He revealed to me that I never knew before. It's real and I can't help but know it. I got rid of my Catechism and got a good Bible. This I will tell you out of love, and if you heed it, it could save your soul from eternal Hell. There is no Pergatory. God bless.
---Rose on 3/3/07

I remember learning of all the Sacraments from Catechism and I knew them good too, but when Jesus came into my life, He showed me the way to new life in Him that is real. The Pergatory thing is a myth invented by man. Now that I study scripture, I know that Pergatory is impossible, and our only chance is what we do with this life on earth. This is why Jesus came and died on that cross at Calvary, for us. The concept of Pergatory, is like telling God that Jesus' sacrifice meant nothing.
---Pete on 3/3/07

Emcee, Pergatory? You still believe in that lie? You are on dangerous ground if your depending on pergatory. If I didn't care, I would not warn you. It's time for you to wake up now, and come into the light. Jesus is waiting.
---JP on 3/3/07

My choice is to do what Jesus said. I hear only His voice.
---X_Catholic on 3/2/07

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Emcee, You don't know the truth. Yes God is merciful, this is why He made a provision for us, and His name is Jesus. This life that Almighty God gave us is our only chance to make the right choices. This is not a rehearsal. The Catholic Church invented Purgatory. Do you want to take a chance and gamble your soul? Your living for an institution. Don't you want to live for Jesus?
---Marie on 3/2/07

Xcatholic ::ARE you sure? ,a wise man would cover his chances !! You may be OH SO sorry you did not.There is A purgatory I say this with confidence.Jesus is a merciful & just god he shows the way by giving us 7 sacraments He tells us To follow him he Declares which is His ChurchHis Love is so immense that he gives us PURGATORY as a last resort DO you still deny Your Merciful God.WHO GAINS by your denial ??dont snigger but it is SATAN Its your choice .Want to wait & find out?
---Emcee on 3/2/07

Tony, please don't take this wrong, but your whole beliefs system is based on fantacy. THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH IS, JESUS. This is why we are called Christians. Followers of Christ and His teachngs, and He taught directly in contrast to pergatory. All these other things are unscriptural. There is no Pergatory on the other side, just life and death. " is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement." Hebrews 9:27
---X_Catholic on 3/2/07

Tony - If a person is truly saved, then that person knows that they are going to be with the Lord the moment they breathe their last breath. I am saved and I stand in the righteousness of Christ which assures me entrance to Heaven.
---Helen_5378 on 3/2/07

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1 Helen- Jesus' death and resurrection assured us all people are free from the bondage of sin (death and eternal separation from the Lord). His blood allowed us to be saved, though did not guarantee all would be saved due to man's free will. He wrote the check, gave it to us and left it to our doing to cash it or not.
---Tony on 3/1/07

2) That being said, as we struggle daily to keep away from sin, with some days being better than others our faith and belief in Christ assures us eternal salvation.
"All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed ssured of their salvation; but after death they undergopurification, so as to achieve the holiness to enter the joy of heaven."
Catachism of the Catholic Church 1030
---Tony on 3/1/07

3) This purification is not a second chance. The second chance was Christ's death and resurrection for us. The first chance was given to Adam and Eve. This purifcation is more for God's benefit, not our own. He will not be around imperfection(sin), no matter how small. As we await in purgatory, we know we are saved, we wait our final purification.
---Tony on 3/1/07

One must admit that if a "saved" individual were to die in the act of sin, it may be difficult to discern if they were truly saved. (The dillemma with OSAS) Did there sins immediately go away because of Christ's sacrafice? What if it was a really big sin at the moment of death?
Is it fair to say God cannot be around sin, that heaven is sinless?
Is it fair to say that chances are many of us will die with some stain of sin on our soul?
How is this resolved?
---Tony on 3/1/07

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If the consequences of sin are forgotten at death,what's the impetus to live as Christlike as possible while on earth?
None of us are worthy to enter the Kingdom. Christ freed us from the bondage of sin, but we are responsible for the consequences of our sin. This may mean final purification.
"so that the genuiness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishible even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise, glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Chist." 1Peter 1:7
---Tony on 3/1/07

Helen said: "Given the huge importance placed on Purgatory by the RCC it would definitely be in many more places in God's Word if it were true"

Actually, there are other scriptures from which we can deduce there is a place of purging, but they take a little more explaining. It's easier to quote Maccabees.
These scriptures are from Mt, 1 Cor, and 1 Pet.
---Catherine12345 on 3/1/07

Tony, I was a Catholic, went to Catholic school and had a pretty good experience there on the most part, but something was missing. It was a real closeness to Jesus. It's the Catholic Church that we must warn others about, NOT THE PEOPLE, and I think you know some of the warnings that were brought to your attention. The Bible says that Satan is the God of this world, and yes, he does get into churches. Read the book of Acts. Pergatory goes directly against the Gospels. God bless you.
---John6747 on 3/1/07

Post-Christ messengers, be more specific Ed.
Are you talking modern day prophets of today?
Are you talking angels, men, or both?
---Skunk on 3/1/07

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James said: "Maccabees is not scriptural."

Seems to me that Protestants removed Maccabees from their version of scripture after the Reformation. Maccabees has always been part of scripture. I can rip out any chapter I don't like - it doesn't mean it's not true.
---Catherine12345 on 3/1/07

Tony - If Purgatory is not a second chance, then why do RCs pray for relatives to be released from there? They also have masses said for their dead relatives who they think have gone to purgatory.
---Helen_5378 on 3/1/07

Tony - ("It is a place of cleansing") -- If a person is truly cleansed by the Blood of Jesus, then they need nothing else. To say that people need to go to a "place of cleansing" after death means that Christ's work on the Cross was not enough, therefore nullifying the death of Christ.
---Helen_5378 on 3/1/07

Please understand what the concept of purgatory is. It is not a second chance, it does not redeem us nor serve to diminish the true and only saving work our Lord Jesus Christ did. It is a place of cleansing, a temporary separation for dying in state less than indeal.
One must understand that God, who is all good, perfect and moral cannot surround himself with sin. It is why Satan was cast from heaven, the Lord and imperfection cannot exist in his heavenly realm like they do on earth.<
---Tony on 3/1/07

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br>I see a lot of Catholic bashing on here. I invite you to venture outside of your comfort zone and study the early fathers, the doctrine and dogma objectively. I hear too many untruths on here to list. Many of you have never stepped inside a Catholic chrch let alone spoken with a Catholic. I know your perspective, I've been there. Have you walked a mile in my shoes?
---Tony on 3/1/07

The Old Testament prophets.
Post-Christ messangers (not really sure what you call them) St Paul, who contributed to the Bible even though he wasn't a disciple of Jesus, and talks about Christian life, post-Christ.
Why shouldn't there be others like St Paul. Maybe not as important, but teaching about things that affect the Church of the day.
---Ed on 3/1/07

I hate liars. I, JAMES, have never used the word pergatory in my whole life.If you cannot understand what I write, which is pretty simple STUFF, then you need to go to the school of the Holy GHOST.
---catherine on 2/28/07

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