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Do Biblical Churches Exist

I'd like a church that the pastor isn't paid. The church isn't a non profit so wants no money and asks for no money. Members instead give their money to other organizations that helps the poor, widows and orphans and not buildings and ineffective watered down bible leading to no real conversions. Do these Biblical churches exist anymore?

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 ---brian on 2/28/07
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What are you talking about? Biblically, you do not muzzle an ox while it is treading the field, worker's deserve a wage, and God's worker's are entitled to a living. This is in both the old and new. So where do you come with this false perception that it is unbiblical for people who do work for God to have an income? There are already churches where pastors are not paid. Jehovah Witness use laymen. Paul preached for free and was a tent maker, but he acknowledged that people have a right to expect a living and some gain from the work one does.
---Sin on 10/8/14

Preach not for filthy lucre sake.

No drama at all. Jesus went to wash Peter's feet n he was rejecting it. Jesus said if I wash the not, thou hast no part with me. Then Peter consented, & Jesus washed Peter's feet.
Jesus said you should wash one another's feet.
---Lawrence on 10/3/14

The Washing of Feet in the all the pre-Reformation Apostolic Churches has always been something in the nature of a liturgical drama, and not a general act (no pun intended) by all present.
---Cluny on 8/3/10


The Biblical emblems used at the Lord's Supper by Jesus were the bread, cup and towel. (Word "wine" is never used)

An Episcopalian/Anglican bishop told me he wished using the emblem of the towel had never died out of his church, and that Queen Victoria as head of that church was the last to do it.

There are Christians who believe Jesus made this a command, "If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet, ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you." John 13:14,15
---Ernest_1 on 7/31/10

Earnest-Not sure what you mean by emblem. Washing of the feet is not a command. Jesus was teaching that even He is a servant as we all are. And we should have that attitude when it comes to being a follower.
---Bruce on 7/30/10

Amen Bruce, - you have certainly summarized it very accurately!

Perhaps we should also add that this church should use in the Lord's Supper the THREE emblems including the one Jesus gave very definite instruction about but is often overlooked by many Christian churches today.(John 13:14,15).

Jesus stated in Verse 17 that it would prove a blessing if it was carried out!

Old Queen Victoria did this each year to her servants and also the previous Pope.
---Ernest_1 on 7/29/10

Amen Earnest. A Christian should seek to join a healthy well balanced church. Christ centered, teaches the full counsel of God. Practices the two ordinances of Baptism and the Lord's Supper. Good fellowship. Equips the body of Christ, His church, seeks to lead the lost to Christ.
---Bruce on 7/28/10

The apostle Paul gave clear instruction in 1 Corinthians 9:3-18 that those preaching the Gospel should be given financial support.

He especially mentioned that those supporting wives like the other apostles and Peter should have it. In verse 14 he summed it up: "Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel."

However, Paul was single and he chose to do a self-supporting ministry so he could not be accused of making money out of the Gospel.

So my advice is not to refrain from joining any church because they have full-time pastors. Concentrate rather on whether they preach and follow the truths of scripture!
---Ernest_1 on 7/28/10

These Bible people have always been given a bad, untrue rep. The TRUTH is that they live by, the WORD, as God
intended...the Bible...ALL Bibles. Most people only THINK they know the Bible.

---Madge on 7/27/10

Ehh the last JH that came to my door tried to convince me that there is no fire in hell. That the fire isnt to be taken literally. God would never burn anyone.

These are the same people that read the story straight from the lips of Christ quoting the rich man in hell begging for Lazarus to come with a drop of water to cool his tongue because he was tormented in the flames.

No literal fire? "Most people only THINK they know the Bible"
---JackB on 7/28/10


If you look at the description of the final judgment in Matthew 25, Jesus will not judge people based on the orthodoxy of their beliefs or based on their great works, but rather based upon their commpassion (feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc.)
---StrongAxe on 7/28/10

The first great essential in finding the truth about the Godhead/Trinity is to study what the Bible has to say about the Holy Spirit.

It clearly shows that the Holy Spirit has the three attributes of personality:
1. Intellect
2. Emotion
3. Will

When one has discovered the truth that the Holy Spirit is a Person, then He will help to reveal the truth concerning the Deity of Jesus Christ. "No one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit" 1 Cor.12:3
---Ernest_1 on 7/28/10

Candice. That is incorrect. The trinity is shown in different passages in the Bible. Remember the Bible is written as literature. There are concepts that we can understand by looking at passages throughout the Bible. When God says, 'A cattle on a thousand hills', He is not talking about literally a thousand cattle. He is talking about everything is His. We must interpret scripture within scripture, in context and in meaning. This is called Hermeneutics. In Genesis, we see the trinity. The use of the plural "us", in Gen 1:26. We see the Lord is talking, not only God. We read God's Spirit coming over the Earth, in creating atmosphere, in Gen 1:2. David spoke of wanting the Spirit, the third person of the triune.
---Bruce on 7/27/10

I'm a non-trinitarian,sorry. I'm also a former baptist & church of christ member. The way the mainstream churches teach the "trinity" idea actually came from Pagan & Roman beliefs, NOT Jewish nor original christan beliefs. To me God is the father, & Jesus Christ his only begotten son whom came here to deliver the good news aka gospel. Until people wake up & quit accepting church traditions manifesting from pagan ideas, then they will be lost. Some already know the truth & prefer to still follow their church rules.
---candice on 7/27/10

\\1. The trinitarian doctrine of the Holy Trinity - Christadelphians believe that Jesus is not the second person of a triune Godhead, but the only-begotten Son of God who was born to Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit, lived as a mortal human being, died on the cross and was raised from the grave to immortality. The spirit is understood to be God's power in action, not a third member of a triune Godhead.\\

And in this statement we see the heresies of the Arians and the Pneumatomachoi.
---Cluny on 7/27/10


The problem with the Jehovah's Witnesses is that even though they are constantly quoting chapter and verse, they also teach that nobody can interpret the scriptures except through the guidance of the Watchtower Society.

So even if the Bible plainly teaches something, they may say it teaches something completely different, because the Watchtower Society says so.
---StrongAxe on 7/27/10

Candice here are the divergences from the Christian Essentials and Biblical principles-
1. The trinitarian doctrine of the Holy Trinity - Christadelphians believe that Jesus is not the second person of a triune Godhead, but the only-begotten Son of God who was born to Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit, lived as a mortal human being, died on the cross and was raised from the grave to immortality. The spirit is understood to be God's power in action, not a third member of a triune Godhead.
>>This is heresy. All cults and false religions start with denying the Deity of Christ.
---Bruce on 7/26/10

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\\After leaving the Army, it took me over 3 years to find a Church which goes through the Bible verse by verse and in the true context which it is written.
---Rob on 7/19/10\\

Rob, in your going verse by verse throughout the Bible, did you ever find any church that actually DID what you just described?

And how do YOU determine what is the "true context"?

Would that include the social and historical context in which a passage would be written?

Or simply what the text itself says?
---Cluny on 7/26/10

Take a few minutes to listen to what Jehovah's Witnesses have to say at your door. They go from door to door to spread the Word of the Bible as God asks of all of us...Read Matthew 24:14 Their organization does EXACTLY what you are looking for. These Bible people have always been given a bad, untrue rep. The TRUTH is that they live by, the WORD, as God
intended...the Bible...ALL Bibles. Most people only THINK they know the Bible.
---Madge on 7/27/10

Bruce I will agree to disagree on this.If you go to the Christadelphian homepage & go under "about us/beliefs" then you can see what they believe. To me they hold scriptual truth. Again they have no paid clergy.
---candice on 7/26/10

Christadelphians don't hold Christian essentials and Biblical practices.
In our church, a small one, the pastor pays for expenses out of his pocket. He does receive a small salary.
---Bruce on 7/26/10

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YES! I go to a congregation just like that. Iti s with the Christadelphians. We still tithe, but they put it to use .We meet in a small building, but got our new one for bibleclasses, but they're portable buildings so nothing fancy,but all of us meet in one for service itself. The elders switch out weekly & aren't paid to teach. I love going there, though no childcare during service can be a little overwhelming sometimes, but it helps when they learn to sit & listen to the speaker. they have Sunday School class for them.
---Candice on 7/19/10

Yes, true Bible Churches still exist, but they are very hard to find.

After leaving the Army, it took me over 3 years to find a Church which goes through the Bible verse by verse and in the true context which it is written.
---Rob on 7/19/10

You're making up something you're calling "Biblical Churches". You won't find any in the NT that fulfill your home-made requirements.

The Orthodox Church is the original Biblical Church.

We wrote the Bible to start with.

Many pastors must have secular jobs to support the family.

However, as one old pastor said, "Salvation is free, but it takes money to run a church."
---Cluny on 7/19/10

The Early Church which Is The One God Jesus name Apostolic Church of The Living God according to Acts 2 v 38 to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost & the remnant still lives today in the which I am part of. Whom the devil with the roman emperor,
nero & the crusades for the trin - rcc went to kill off the Saints in the dark ages.

My former Pastor had worked as an sound man for ISU & for WTHI tv station a few yr's in this City where I live. He lived on his retirement money & the Church money that came in went to pay all the utilities & building up - keep etc. He deserved the 10th of that money that came in & whether he did use it or not, I don't know. I never asked.
---Lawrence on 7/19/10

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Paul wasn't a pastor. He had no home church to call his own. He was an itinerant evangelist who travelled extensively, and made sure other churches were on the right track.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/08


A nice, idealistic model, but not very realistic.

If the church has no money, it won't have a building (no way to pay rent). It will have to meet in free places like parks or homes.

If the pastor doens't get paid, he'll pastor only part time, because he'll need a full-time job to support himself and family.

By supporting a pastor, you free him to do what he does best. By supporting the building, you provide a place where such activities can continue 24/7.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/08

Paul was an apostle and self supporting. He with Priscilla and Aquallia owned a tent making operation. Very good pay in those days, and a lot of work. He collected money for the churches he visited not himself. Good enough for and apostle, good enough for a pastor
---dan on 3/5/08

What is so biblical about that? Paul made it clear that a pastor has every right to be paid.

1 Timothy 5:17,18 "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward."
---BRUCE5656 on 3/5/08

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Mima...We are also praying for a revival before peoples' hearts start waxing cold before the Lord's return. In all the years of ministry, we have never asked for money for anything that we have done. I personally don't think God wants us to get paid to spread the gospel and that includes selling tapes and books of the word of God.
---Susie on 3/6/07

About ---Steveng's street ministry, in my humble opinion he is on the cutting edge of the coming" revival" a kind of one on one soulwinning ministry. I'm presently devoting my time energy and purse to develop these type of street preachers.
---Mima on 3/6/07

Why do some insist on using "multiple" user name identities? Maybe to insult/gain up on other's? That's truly asinine.
---Mrs._Morgan on 3/5/07

Jana.....It always amazes me when a "Christian" shows such rebellion that they cannot take constructive criticism. We are not picking on you. We are simply asking that you write your posts in a readable manner. I see no problem with our asking you NICELY to do this.
---Susie on 3/5/07

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Jana: "Would u like to go without finance to feed your family n would u like to take over as pastor with no pay?" I'm a street preacher, I don't get paid. I work as a technical writer and graphic artist for an avionics company. The streets, the parks, the cafes I patronize are my churches/buildings. The people I meet in the streets, in the parks, in the stores are my congregation. The Christians I meet on the street are my fellowship. Need I say more? Christians don't need buildings.
---Steveng on 3/4/07

Oppositional defiance is a tough thing to conquer, jana. We're not impatient, we do not want to read it. More than the textspeak is the defiance, which reveals something else. Jesus spoke in parables but we can all understand what He was saying. If you work in a school system, you're familiar with oppositional defiance.
---R2D2 on 3/4/07

I have an idea, let the poor woman write as she chooses, when Her response comes up run pass it.
---catherine on 3/4/07

Jana: I understand how much space you have for text messages and I have read everything you have said with NO difficulty. Keep up the good work and thank you for voicing your opinion, even if others are impatient. No one is perfect from what I have seen typed here. spelling and grammar are horrible, but I enjoy reading what people say. God bless always and do not worry about the ramblings of others.
---Dave on 3/4/07

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Jana - Excuse me young lady, but you have been asked by a number of people myself included to please write properly. Would you please be kind enough and considerate enough of others to please do so.
---Helen_5378 on 3/4/07

As an added thought, if you want a truly Biblical church, you could walk everywhere you go and carry no books or Bibles to use to preach.
---Susie on 3/3/07

I am text speaking bcos of limited space. Just read the texts as u should. my 9year old grand daughter reads it easily n so should u. I dont see it as a problem at all. u r just impatient.
---jana on 3/3/07

How is it determined? By God. I know through God whom is called to preach if seen them preach. I've seen people get behind the pulpit and really didn't know how to open their bible.
---Rebecca_D on 3/3/07

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Jesus said, a worker is worthy of his hire. Forsake not the gathering of yourselves together--tithe, support the widow and orphans--ALL church functions. The temple event was selling goods particularly for sacrifice--they had turned it into an enterprise. Scripturally, I find it okay to be financially supported by a church-salary, love offer or what have you. Sorry you don't see it that way.
---Jerry on 3/3/07

** Anyone whom is called to preach should preach freely.**

And just how is it determined that someone is REALLY called to preach or is merely taking it upon himself?

As it it written, "Some were sent and some just went."
---Jack on 3/3/07

"Where two or more gather in my name. I am there." The church is simply an assembly of two or more people. Home churches are the best type of churches. They are small and intimate. They don't worry about a building or trying to stay within the IRS non profit status. They spend more time worshipping and learning the Bible unlike most churches today use entertainment. There will be a time in the near future when Christians will be forces to use private homes.
---Steveng on 3/2/07

Anyone whom is called to preach should preach freely. If go to another church and giving an love offering, that is different. My Pastor isn't paid, he works outside of the church as well as for God. But that is his choice. In Mat 12:12-13, people were selling things in the temple (church) and Jesus got angry, and turned the tables over and told them to get out. To me that is the same as selling the word of God if being paid to preach. I'm not for sale.
---Rebecca_D on 3/2/07

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jana, would you please answer with Christ-like replies. We've all asked you to refrain from text speak, but you defiantly step it up and use more of it.
I try to give your answers the benefit of the doubt, but usually give up on them.
---R2D2 on 3/2/07

AMEN, Susie. This baby-talk in posting is neither cute nor smart.

Jana has said elsewhere that she is working in a Roman Catholic school. I HOPE it is not as a teacher! Heaven help the students if she is.
---Jack on 3/2/07

Jana...Could you PLEASE post in full words so that we can read your posts? At times they are unreadable. I know others have asked you in the past without any change.
---Susie on 3/2/07

would u like to go without finance to feed your family n would u like to take over as pastor with no pay? I doubt it very much. God didnt intend for pastors not 2b paid ever. Millions of people give financially 2the church out of their own hearts with love. Church buildings r needed n electricity bills etc need b paid. In this day n age, how can u work with no pay unless u r filthy rich. what have u against paid pastors? they give of their time freely to do so much that u n I cant do.
---jana on 3/2/07

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What you are describing is nothing like the church of the Bible. When Jesus walked this earth the primary job of all ministers was to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ and is the same today. As far as helping the poor, widows and orphans those are also things that all Christians should be doing. The problem with giving to organizations is that some you think are not churches, actually are. Like the Salvation Army. You are giving to a church and funding their church programs when you donate to them.
---Susie on 3/1/07

During the Tabernacle of David, the worshippers/musicians lived from the gifts that were given. Their job was to worship G-d, one hour a day, seven days a week (24 groups ofworshippers) They lived close to the tabernacle as did the priests. It is ok for pastors to be paid for their job is to shepherd the flock. My Rabbi does not get paid, but neither does anyone else in my congregation and everyone takes a share in the responsibilities. We give money to keep the doors open.
---Phyllis on 2/28/07

My Pastor isn't a paid Pastor. He doesn't want to be paid for doing what God called him to do. He owns his own contruction company, works 5-6 days a week. And still has time for God and people in the church. There is nothing wrong with the church paying their Pastor a salary if he isn't working no where else, only has one church, and is dedicated to God, and he wants to be paid. But the people shouldn't pay a man whom isn't doing the Lord's will and is lazy and won't help his fellow man. CONT:
---Rebecca_D on 2/28/07

what is considered a real job? Is preaching not a real job? In Heb 13:17-18 it says for us to obey those that rule over us (our Pastors) for they watch over our souls and do it with joy and not with grief, that is unprofitable for you. In 3 Jn 1:7 it say they took nothing. The question that was asked in this blog, described my church. We not only help the poor but pay our tithes, which does not go to the Pastor. It goes to help pay for the church and utilites, and help the needs within the church.
---Rebecca_D on 2/28/07

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AMEN Alan! Our pastor preaches 3 times a week, sermons that must be worked on and written,teaches seminars. Visits the sick in hospital, works 2 afternoons a week in the soup kitchen, has a family, does visitation, counseling, runs the office staff, meetings..etc... I haven't a clue when he'd have time to 'work' an outside job! Maybe he could get a job working graveyard shift, but most likely would get called to the hospital, or to bail somebody's kid out of jail. He should be paid, AND paid well!
---NVBarbara on 2/28/07

The Biblical Church still exists, but who said we can't build physical structures? Early Christians were being persecuted so they had to be hidden. Missionaries go into poor regions and don't ask for money, money raised from other churches is shared to help the missionary churches grow and provide for the needs of their followers. Even here, a collection plate is passed around, but not enforced. If you can't afford to contribute to the warmth and light of the building, you are able to attend for free.
---lorra8574 on 2/28/07

**Weren't the Apostles of Jesus still fishing after he called them to be Apostles? **

Read 1 Cor 9, 1 Tim 5, and then try to say that the Apostles (except for Paul) worked secular jobs when on mission.

Or are these passages just not in your Bible?
---Jack on 2/28/07

**pastors should get real jobs and teach out of a love for God.**

Aside from the fact that a MAJORITY of Evangelical and Orthodox pastors do have secular jobs, I'm going to paraphrase some of what you say to show you how silly--and downright mean--it sounds:

1. Soldiers should get real jobs and fight for us out of patriotism.

2. Doctors and nurses should get real jobs and treat us out of love for medicine.

3. Teachers should get real jobs and teach out of love of learning.
---Jack on 2/28/07

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1. I assume, Dave, that you then, do not work for "filthy lucre" either? How do you feed and clothe your family? Your attitude is the same one that my Dad endured for decades as a minister.
---Mary_Ann on 2/28/07

2. While parishioners went on fancy holidays, we never experienced one. All our clothing came from boxes of outgrown old things that no one else wanted. Mom planted a garden and canned, otherwise we wouldn't have eaten. One tiny steak, when we were so blessed, fed a family of four.
---Mary_Ann on 2/28/07

3. Dad worked odd jobs that he could fit in around 2 services on Sunday, 2 mid-week services, 1 or 2 nursing home services, Boy's Club, visitation, counselling, Bible study, sermon preparation, hours of prayer for the church and the unsaved, soul-winning, church paperwork, community events, and ceaseless parishioner calls at suppertime (they knew he would be home).
---Mary_Ann on 2/28/07

4. Do you do that much for the Lord while working a full-time job? Perhaps only pastors work for "filthy lucre" while parishioners work for "wages" and that's why they deserve the holidays and new clothes, but not their Pastors?
---Mary_Ann on 2/28/07

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Brian, what makes you think that what you are describing is Biblical?

From the first day, the Apostles did not hesitate to accept monetary support from the faithful. What do you think the divinely-wrought execution of Ananias and Sapphira were about?

Like the church board prayed, "Lord, send us a pastor, poor and humble. You keep him humble, and we'll keep him poor." Is that what you had in mind?
---Jack on 2/28/07

**It doesn't say anywhere that Jesus was paid to teach.**

Yes, it does.

Mark 15:41. Luke 8:3.
---Jack on 2/28/07

Mercedes ... So pastors should have a full time, stressful job, and then in the evenings spend all the rest of their time preaching and visiting?
While their flock just have the full time job and plenty of leisure.
Sounds fair!
---alanUKquent64534 on 2/28/07

Bruce, how do you turn that verse to mean pastors should be paid for preaching?
In the Old Testament, men who take money to preach are practicing "priest craft" and it is condemned.
The only ones in the NT that were paid were the false priests (Pharisees etc.).
Weren't the Apostles of Jesus still fishing after he called them to be Apostles?
Wasn't Jesus a carpenter by trade?
It doesn't say anywhere that Jesus was paid to teach.
---Mercedes on 2/28/07

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Of course churches needs money to run, but pastors should get real jobs and teach out of a love for God.
I personally could'nt preach for hire. It takes advantage.
The only "trained professional preachers" in the NT were the Pharisees and other false teachers.
Lotta good the training did them, they knew verses but didn't recognize their Lord.
---Mercedes on 2/28/07

John 10:12. "But he that is a hireling and not the shepherd flees...." The Bible doesn't instruct the church to hire people to pastor. But it does give a responsibility to the people to take care of those who labor in the word. Paul was never hired but he did accept gifts.
---john on 2/28/07

Souls come from witnessing(free) The church building and resources are funded by the members through their offerings gifts and tithes. If a pastor works solely for the church why should he not use the money from his offerings to pay for his living and also for his ministry workers if his offerings and tithes can manage that. What people dispute is the lavish living and new suits every sermon, mansion type homes and the thousands you have to pay for them to stay in exclusive hotels for conventions etc
---Carla5754 on 2/28/07

Okay so the congregations can afford to give these pastors/bishops/ministers their money and thats up to them. But I doubt if you asked one of them if you could go spend an evening with your family for dinner if you would be welcomed and if so how often?. Yet as fellow laborers how many of us invite a family over for dinner, work for nothing, give for nothing and ask for nothing in return or even wear costly clothing whist doing it.
---Carla5754 on 2/28/07

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now we get down to it. pastors and clergy should NOT receive money for their time. that is a man thing, Not a God ordained practise as stated in 1 Peter 5:2. no one shall preach for filty lucre. the scripture you quoted has nothing to do with getting paid. I know at least one million men around the world that hold down a job and are also in charge of huge congregations. listen to God and not Greed for yourself.
---Dave on 2/28/07

The Lord himself says that a pastor should be paid.

1 Corinthians 9:14 "Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel."
---BRUCE5656 on 2/28/07

What you want is totally unrealistic and biased in so many ways. Nothing is so far from right about pastors not getting paid. Many have school loans and others have to spend countless hours with the family's of dyeing relatives then hours on an effective sermon. I would like to see you do that and hold another job. What we need is more "Jesus dedicated" paid pastors, not ones that are only doing it for an income. or to push religion.
---Diamond on 2/28/07

The New Testament teaches that those who minister the word are worthy to be paid. Paul said that he qualified to earn his living from the church, but chose not to. Christ and His apostles were supported by women who followed Him. A biblical church is to receive gifts from the saints in order to have something to give to widows, orphans, other churches and, even those who preach, teach and administer the common life of the congregation. The real question is are they faithful doing the work of Christ?
---Chris on 2/28/07

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