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Roman Catholic Abuses

SAN DIEGO, California (AP) -- The Roman Catholic Diocese of San Diego filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection a few hours before it was to go to trial Wednesday in the first of more than 140 lawsuits accusing priests of sexual abuse. How can we forgive on-going sexual abuse like this?

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 ---donna6598 on 2/28/07
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Sunday, January 14, 1996

A vision came to me early in the morning, I saw leaders of churches, making decisions for churches, but none of them had heads. I saw preachers, preaching, teachers, teaching and pastors also with no heads. I saw congregations on merry-go-rounds with no heads and the leaders and the preachers, pastors and the teachers were pushing them around and around. Then I saw the church buildings and upon each church where the steeple should go was the head of Christ. And the head cried out night and day, I need a body, who will be my body of service. Those that had no heads ministered to the buildings, but would not hear the head.
---exzucuh on 9/19/08

Mic, I have examined your many advices and they are wrong advices. If I took your advice I would still be in bondage to the RCC and blind to the Truth. I know you have been more forward lately but everything I have put down concerning the RCC is either from history, from Scripture, or from their teachings. Never once did I addressed any individual, or ever accuse anyone other then Eloy of not been saved, losing salvation are called them names as you and Nicole have done. You can try to stop the Truth from coming out by any means you want to take. You can answer with Scripture, you can produce information that speaks against what I write, or you can continue to call me names. It's your choice.
---MarkV. on 9/18/08

The Doxology is of your own making which when found out you foist on others. As you say "I believe." Your contention is not with any one in particular but the RCC as a whole, from which you apostated. This is what you oppose, like red is to a bull.So anyone who supports The RCC which is the truth you go beserk.Your text proves that.Make peace with God, Not war. Do not respond but examine the advice given in good faith.
---MIC on 9/18/08

Mic/Emcee/Nana, I believe you are all three of those. So I will answer your question, it was you who brought the enemy into our discussions. It is a habit of yours to insert him as your brother in arms when you have to answer to my comments.
Only those who constantley think about him is you. The RCC has included the devil in many of their actions. It is always about evil that makes them continue to add new doctrines to their believes. Your evidence shows who you really are and why you support the RCC. The very same mindset they have. You have a right to sin today and confess on Saturday's. And even if you go to purgatory, others can pray for you to get you out. Or maybe you can eat Jesus next Sunday and be ok to do it again.
---MarkV. on 9/18/08

Mark ... I don't want you to "honour my request"

I just make the suggestion so that people can continue blogging.

Does that make any sense?
---alan_of_UK on 9/17/08

Any wonder from a religion that worships the church rather than the risen Lord? Matthew 7:21-25 is appropriate.
---Brooks on 9/17/08

Mark V If you write to me I how it was that I had to change my name here
You would then understand the reason for my suggestion.
I can't say more here.
---alan_of_UK on 9/17/08

Alan, I mentioned before that it did not bother me if Emcee used a different name, but now that I have gotten Satanic response from three people's names, I will now assume all three is him. So instead of honoring your request for whatever reason you might have, I will address all three as one. It make's it difficult to respond to each name when in my heart I feel it is one person doing the talking.
---MarkV. on 9/17/08

Mark ... Ity would maybe better if you just addressed MIC

If you want to know why I say this, write to me Alan8566
---alan_of_UK on 9/12/08

Mark:By your free will .you called Satan into this discusion Not I,Your last sentence proves that.No retort is necessary.He who saves his life, loses it.Have a great day.
---MIC on 9/12/08

Emcee/ Mic, I will call you, we have discussed this many times. You don't believe in the validity of Scripture and you want to defend your believes with Scripture. Your own interpretations of what you don't believe in the first place is not binding prove of anything. I will use the phrase someone else uses, You will believe what you want to believe" but what you believe is not true. That some other force that you speak of, you can go ahead and use his name as you always do, "your allie in arm's Satan." Your supporter in time of need.
---Mark_V. on 9/12/08

Mark:-It is not me,who is in a quandry but you.If you assume that Matt16:13-19 is not Jesus Church then you make Jesus a liar.and even assuming you are in another denominational church if for some reason you get the notion to leave can you saythat the Holy spirit took you or Guided you out.This is what is meant by a house divided against itself.Therefore it was NOT god having mercy on you, but some other force leading you away & astray.You convinced yourself it was the Holy spirit as Eve beleived she would become like God.I cannot advise you but you have to make up your mind which is the right JESUS.and the Right Holy spirit.I already know and have no qualms.
---MIC on 9/11/08

Mic, don't you get it? You say, why would the Holy Spirit guide me out of his church?" Hello, Mic, because it was not His church I was in Mic. That is why the Holy Spirit took me out of it. Christ Church is spiritual. The one I was in (RCC) is not spiritual. God had mercy on me. I was not the only one in whom He had mercy on, there is many whom the Spirit has guided out. Now you might ask why some and not all? Here is your answer, "What shall we say then? is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whoever I will have compassion. So then it is not of him who will, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
---Mark_V. on 9/10/08

Mark :-"Concerning the spirit guiding You"Scripture says "A house divided against itsself cannot stand"(Beelzibub cannot cast out beelzibub) This being so why would the H/S guide you "away" from His church?B/c your action is by "Your own choice"God gives freewill.Your vendetta against the RCC gives rise to this fact.Jesus church is guided By the H/S (Scripture)Therefore what you claim to be The H/S is just an evil spirit and since you say that satan is NOT Omnipresence, then it may be one of his minions doing his bidding.Man errs, God NEVER.This has nothing to do with History,RCC indoctrination But Common sense.
---MIC on 9/9/08

Mic, in my answer to you I said that Satan was not Omniscience, well his not, and what I meant was that he is not Omnipresent which means to be everywhere at one time. I'm sorry you had to bring satan into this blog and sorry you had to use him for your answers. I believe when someone runs out of things to say, they go to the deciever to make a point. It happens all the time. People give him the time of day which really is sin.
What you will find if you really search for the Truth is that salvation cannot be gotten by works of righteous deeds. The gospel taught by the RCC is not salvation by justification by faith in Christ alone. It has conditions people have to do in order to be save. So really, no one can be a child of God by that gospel.
---Mark_V. on 9/9/08

To answer the question that was ask I say this- Luke 17:3- 3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. Romans 12:17-21
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: It is mine to avenge, I will repay,says the Lord. On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. ginge7376
---ginger on 9/9/08

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Mic, I didn't understand your question since you made a comment and said something else. I am willing to answer you as best as I can.
Concerning the Holy Spirit guiding me, I believe that when I put down Scripture and write what God say's is true. Scripture interpret's Scripture.
The answers I give about the history of the RCC those come from historians. Those can be rejected by anyone, as most of you do because you get your information from the RCC and I am sure they will never admit to fault, but the Word of God is fact. It does not lie and can be interpreted by only those who have the Holy Spirit since the Word of God has to be spiritually discern.
---Mark_V. on 9/9/08

Mic, since you brought Satan into the conversation, I will respond by saying that, the RCC has been run by the deception of Satan all the Centuries. I was better for him to have all in one mass, then to have to tangle with others outside one at a time. You see Mic Satan is not Omniscience. He cannot be in every place at the same time as God can.
If he controls an institution he controls everyone in that institution. You might think because the RCC is very religious and has many images of saints and idols that it is very holy, but it is you who has been decieved. All who went out knew what was happening in the RCC. They wanted to get it back to where it all begin, but they found out they could not change what already proclaimed infallibility.
---Mark_V. on 9/9/08

People who know and have studied Gods word are confident of what is "THE TRUTH" others who hear and read the funnies have their own agenda-not funny. eg computing Luthers diatribe with Gods not worthy of consideration People who PROTEST do so because it goes against the truth and are called Protesters.God says "MY Church"protesters say "church of believers "who is fooling who"?
---MIC on 9/8/08

Luther's message as changed in time to your message. Only 500yrs?
Ours hadn't in 2000yrs.

Truth is unchangable.

rcc's truth became unchangeable once they came to an agreement about what it's truth was

Constantine spun his hallucinations creating the fables he used to gain CONTROL over the pagans USING Gods Holy Word merging his political power into a religious system

Christ is a spiritual church not of this world ...Christ NEVER had any political connections and neither did apostles

step away from the programming and read Gods Word as it was written instead of THROUGH the lies given by a false god
---Rhonda on 9/8/08

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Mark:You swear by all that is holy that what you say and write here is Gods truth because you feel you have been convinced it is the Holy spirit that guides you , is that correct?.I want you to consider this as as a fact, b/c my next question is How did Eve Feel when she was duped by Satan.what would satan Say "did I ask you to believe the Father of Liars"?This question I ask because you were once Gods son would you be sorry if by satans deception you separated yourself from Him?A rope once cut remains cut separated.
---MIC on 9/8/08

Nicole you do love your Church, not Jesus Church. You speak against His church and teachings to those who are His real Church. A denomination does not save anyone, only grace through faith in the sacrifice of Christ will. He is sufficient to save anyone. Your church cannot save a soul. They have the wrong gospel of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 9/8/08

Are you arguing me or Jesus?

Matthew 16:13-19

Peace to you.

My fight isn't against flesh but against evil spirits.
Why don't you join me fighting them instead of fighting me?

Mark 9:39-40
There is no one who performs a might deed in my Name who can at the same time speak ill of Me. For whoever is not against us is for us.
---Nicole on 9/8/08

Nicole you do love your Church, not Jesus Church. You speak against His church and teachings to those who are His real Church. A denomination does not save anyone, only grace through faith in the sacrifice of Christ will. He is sufficient to save anyone. Your church cannot save a soul. They have the wrong gospel of Christ. One incorporated by the members of the RCC who are human and have made thousands of errors and sins and have corrupted the word of God with their dogmatic believes in saints, indulgences, purgatory, and works of the law. Only the remnant (the elect) from within the denomination and other denominations will be saved by God.
---Mark_V. on 9/8/08

MarkV, I do love Jesus' Church.
I will protect Her, but not from any truth.
If She is wrong, I will states it as fact.
Not She is wrong, but the humans are wrong.
The Church can not error. But the Humans in the Church can and do error.

I am not like the mother who sees blood dripping off her son's knife over a dead man, saying:
"My boy didn't do it!, He is innocent"!

No, I am a mother who see her son's horrible crime, but still loves her boy.

Does the first mother love her boy more than the 2nd because she blinds her eyes? No.
The 2nd loves her son because he is her son!

I love the RCC, because She is the Spouse of Jesus Christ!
---Nicole on 9/8/08

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Mic, out of respect for you Mic who always answer kindly and all the members of the RCC who are not to blame for what has happened in the molestation cases, I will not bring this issue up again since enough has been said concerning which is the True Church of Christ that is made up of true believers spiritually baptized into one Body headed by Christ Himself.
If past history is brought up again I will confine my answers to those matters of history that happen but not the abuses by the priest to the children. I hope we never hear of more cases again. It did touch my family but I will let it go for it will not change a thing anymore then it will continue to hurt others.
---Mark_V. on 9/6/08

Nicole, I am shock of the love you have for your church. You see Nicole I can see that evidence myself by what you say. You have so much love for her that you will do anything to protect her, anything. That is a true love.

That is the True love we have for Christ. We love the gospel so much we are ready to do anything to defend it, because of that love. I said once you were doing things with a different motive then mine. Which is very true. I don't question denominations whether the people are saved or not but doctrines taught by them. Because "even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached let him be eternally condemned" are the words of Paul in Galatians.
---Mark_V. on 9/6/08

Mic, I left a denomination that was corrupt because it was not only worshipping idols and saints it's salvation was of works. How did I find out? When I needed the help from a priest to help me in my troubles he didn't even give me the time of day. By that one action God led me to a Pentacostal Church where I was treated as a brother and through them I was taught the gospel of Jesus Christ. The lessons learned by my experience and through the family when someone was molested, I begin to read and study about the RCC false doctrines. From the saints, worshipping Mary, reading the rosary, purgatory, to the in-sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. For all those doctrines move the members away from Christ instead of towards Christ.
---Mark_V. on 9/5/08

Mark:-I mean you no harm I am merely bringing to light the saying"To err is Human"Even the laws of the land decide that restitution is available,but you make it a vigilante process "NOT YOUR JURISDICTION" God made an example of Ananias and Saphira, just to show How he abhors lies disobedience.Those who flaunt the laws of God ,on them the axe will fall by HIS say NOT yours, we are all subject to that same axe.His way His law is the only way. He sends the H/S to guide His church,His people (flock) which you left of your own accord.You are vunerable.His Peace be with you .
---MIC on 9/5/08

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Mark ... I agree about the errors of the RCC in doctrine and practice, & the RCC is in error to say it is the only valid. But some non-Catholics are equally exclusive saying the RCC has no validity at all

Main point was that other Christian groups have abusers, and protect them. I myself have personally seen this happen to others, and was myself subject of an attempted seduction.

The abusers and the abuse was denied by the church leaders until criminal proceeding were taken. Then it was the whistle blowers who were thrown out of the Bible-believin' Church.

It is falsehood to suggest that the RCC is alone in this problem, & does not help honest discussion. Let's keep to justified criticism
---alan_of_UK on 9/5/08

Nicole, again thank you for your comments, they are the reason I answer this questions. If you were not on line I would be talking about doctrines. I am not shock to see that you love your church, I was just like you. I would also defend the church at any cost. The Church fathers put the cannon together, but they did not write the Cannon or made is authentic, the Word of God. The Word of God has succeeded not because of the RCC but because of the God who has kept a remnant for Himself all through time. And you are right, no man has the right to change the Word for his own purpose as the RCC has done through time for their own benefit, power, and money. The Truth will never change.
---Mark_V. on 9/5/08

The Bishop of Rome did not get invited to the church council that set the Canon. So that is a false claim of the RCC.

The RCC has changed a lot over the past 2,000 years. In the Middle ages Popes and bishops purchsed their positions and used murder, and money to keep them. Many Popes kept more then one Mistress. The collected taxes from prostitutes and sold and bought slaves.

The church today would not do any of these things. There have been many good Christians in the Catholic church history and even today. But the teachings have changed.

In the middle ages a person who stated they were saved by Grace would face the inquesition for heresy. Yet Early catholics taught it as well as many today.
---Samuel on 9/5/08

MarkV don't twist this debate.
It is always you and other Protestants who start lies.
Then Mic and I take apart your lie, using Scriptures to defend God's Church.

I think you are shock to see Catholics who know and love their Church.
The RCC uses the Scriptures better, because the RCC put the canon together.
The RCC learned from Jesus and faithful.
She will defend the teachings of Jesus.
For she has more generations after you MarkV to pass the Truth down to them.
They have the right to know the truth as Jesus proclaimed.
NO MAN has the right to change His Words. Not Luther or you.
Luther's message as changed in time to your message. Only 500yrs?
Ours hadn't in 2000yrs.

Truth is unchangable.
---Nicole on 9/5/08

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Mic, I speak only for myself, I am not attacking the Gospel. I speak against an organisation or institution who has done a lot of great harm to so many. It stands right now as Christian and all other Christians outside of the RCC have to take it for the RCC and what they have done. You fail to admit the things and would love to go on without anyone mentioning anything but the truth of the matter is that you and Nicole claim it is the only True Church and give your reasons why. And since you insist on preaching that, we examined that Church and find it guilty of so many things. From leaving Christ in almost all matters of faith and worship to the abuses that were done by their leaders. No one else claims what you claim.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/08

Alan, I know you don't like the answers many give about the RCC. In the beginning I was answering mostly doctrines, but the subburness of the RCC, that their church is the only True church and Peter the Rock, and how they only get the information from God and only through their church can one be saved, has prompted the answers been given in order to proof that it cannot be the True church of Christ.
The false doctrines the murders the abuses to the children, them hiding this criminals so they could do it again and again, and you are not talking ten or twenty, but the amount must be in the thousands of those we will never know about. The RCC is the only Church that claims it is the True Church of Christ and the evidence proofs different.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/08

What is wrong here is attacking God's GospelHis doctrine and teachings on the basis of Mans Fraility.All denominations succomb to some sin of the same or different Kinds. But it is not the Doctrine that is at fault but the man made error and to make matters worse it is repudidated by the same sinfullnes of Man who make the same type of sin.God forgives SIN Man can never forget, or forgive and keeps Regurgitating like an animal true to his species.Instead of lifting him/herself out of the Mire."Look at me I am spotless"are you ?He/S who exaults him/Hself will be despised.Alan of Uk is right
---MIC on 9/3/08

Rhonda ... Ther's a l,ot wrong inthe doctrines and practices of the RCC.

BUT, the RCC is not alone in having pastors/leaders indulging in those terrible sins and crimesa gainst children, nor alone in protecting them.
---alan_of_UK on 9/3/08

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Trees with withered Roots do not flourish. They disentigrate into the soil."By their Fruits you will know them" They have no roots leave alone fruits.
---MIC on 9/3/08

Christ preached a true doctrine for salvation.Some preach a false doctrine for damination.Sin is relegated to all mankind .Need I say more?
---MIC on 9/3/08

Christ preached a true doctrine for salvation.Some preach a false doctrine for damination.Sin is relegated to all mankind .Need I say more?Slanderous thoughts are bred in similar minds.What comes out of the Mouth defiles.
---MIC on 9/3/08

didn't do the right thing when they found out priests were molesting these kids ...They still serve a false god and are not led or convicted by the Holy Spirit...

true and more than 1000 years ago rcc openly had prostitutes servicing their priests inside vatican

their "celebacy vows" for show ...elevating their priests above their subjects ...portraying a "celebate" life from marriage in public ...practicing sexually perverted life in private

double minded destroying childrens lives for their own sick gratification knowing they will continue to be protected by "her"

innocent children have been used by priests who use their TRUST AND POWER over children, parents and community
---Rhonda on 9/2/08

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Donna...I live in San Diego and remember seeing that made me sick to my stomach but then on the other hand I said to myself...well...we're dealing with the RCC, what do you expect? They didn't do the right thing when they found out priests were molesting these kids in the first place, so why would they do the right thing now? They still serve a false god and are not led or convicted by the Holy Spirit. Nothing's changed.
---Holly4jc on 9/2/08

which has No bearing on the subject of celibacy.Next time quote the passage instead of sending People on a fools errand.It demeans your message of falseness even more,not to speak of you.

then you should take yourself up on your pious message to SEEK understanding in Gods Truth rather than condeming HIS Truth about celibacy ...instead you believe it to be a "fools errand" and such you remain a fool

your understanding wouldn't have improved if I wasted space quoting HIS Holy Word for you if you have no understanding of the scripture presented time YOU DECIDE what Gods Word says with your antichrist OPINION let others know before you make your comments

---Rhonda on 9/2/08

Greyrider says, 80% of all American Catholics have beliefs that are not RCC's. Wonder why? How about the Germans, the English catholics, the latin countries? So all this people are confused. Great.

Michele, I have talked about the abuses of the priest many times. besides murder and persecution of the Jews, I believe molestion of children is one of the worse. Molestions were kept secret. Preachers were moved to other area's by other bishops. They would do this again and again. The leaders are to blame for permitting this to go on for such a long time knowing full well what was happening. For decades this went on. Their hope was not to damage the image of their Church.
---Mark_V. on 9/2/08

Rhonda:- You remind me of the rich man who wanted to take his money to Heaven, when he died,Told his wife to tie all his money in a bundle and leave it near the open attic window,he would grab it on his way up to Heaven.after a week she went and checked to find the money still there so she says Rats! I should have left it in the basement window.This is more entertaining than your 1Tim.3:1-3 & 4.:1-4which has No bearing on the subject of celibacy.Next time quote the passage instead of sending People on a fools errand.It demeans your message of falseness even more,not to speak of you.
---MIC on 9/2/08

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Again the church used "man's" wisdom for celibacy. Imagine what it would cost the church to pay for a wife, children and all the expense that a family entails. Much cheaper to be celebate and bunk in poverty.

to be the wealthy powerful corrupted political religious system it is today they had to eliminate the most costly expense they had by forbidding to marry and remain celebate

it is against Gods Word to be celebate it is the doctrine of devils 1Tim 3:1-4, 4:1-3

their pagan practices are destroying the lives of many and their priests will continue to prey on children

it's sad but their wealth allows them this luxury to escape earthly punishment
---Rhonda on 9/1/08

"Just have faith in the Lord thy God", saith the Lord thy God. Have a good weekend everyone.+++
---catherine on 8/29/08

Its sad to see all those people who have suffered from the abuse the bad apples (priests) in the church. Yes they are priests but they are also human who is not without sin. Same as preachers, ministers and all others who are men of God who lead a flock. There is no greater punishment than what they will receive on judgment day if they are not truly sorry. One group of bad apples should not reflect the entire church. Let us understand we are all working to the same ending to be with the lord when our time comes it is not for us to say whos way is better as long as we follow the lord to best of our abilities.
---Michele on 8/28/08

Although it's likely that some are guilty, these people are accused not convicted. If they are guilty I think they need to repent. I'm sure the punishment will be stiff. There are probably church leaders of all kinds of denominations that do the same.
---john on 8/16/08

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jody - Can I assume you're an American? Studies have show that AT LEAST 80% of American Catholics have beliefs that are NOT RCC teachings. They ARE CONFUSED PEOPLE. Their beliefs are heretical. I encourage you to find a legitimate source for ACTUAL RCC teachings. But you are right in that most American Catholics are VERY confused people, but they are not Roman Catholics.
---Greyrider on 11/12/07

Again the church used "man's" wisdom for celibacy. Imagine what it would cost the church to pay for a wife, children and all the expense that a family entails. Much cheaper to be celebate and bunk in poverty.
---dan on 11/10/07

I didn't take the time to read the blogs on this but I do want to say that we have stood still way to long regarding the perversion that goes on within the closets of the Catholic church! We have seen just about every thing crop up behind the walls of this organization yet we stand back and acknowledge them as a religion? A religion from Hell. I am dumbfounded when I think of how many EX-Catholics I personally have come across who have been mentally slaughtered by the church. Very confused people.Sad.
---jody on 11/10/07

I can interpret that as:
Paul meant have one wife. As in not 2,3,4 etc... and if he has children...he must organize and raise them well...for if he can't even do can he take on leading a church?
Then in Corinth. he says he would prefer everyone stay as he is (celibate) cause it is easier to serve the Lord when you don't have distractions of a wife and kids etc...
---Lisa on 11/9/07

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ShaunT - Timothy or anyone else who lived then obviously understood the historical context of the time in which they lived. You live 2000 years later in a completely different culture and are reading a translation. Most of the Scriptures can be understood by the layman, but not all. By the way, some of the older Protestant pastors who have converted lately and are married, have been allowed to become priests.
---Greyrider on 11/9/07

#2 - Your argument is that used by liberalists who deny the word of God being quick and powerful as a two-edged sword. You reduce Scriptures to being that which only academics and scholars can understand. I do not need to be a scholar to understand what Paul wrote in I Tim and Titus, but you need a scholar to deny this plain and simple teaching and to uphold the lie of priestly celibacy.
---ShaunT on 11/9/07

#3 - Your argument falls apart for another reason. Where in I Corinthians does it speak anywhere to "priests" or that these verses are only for the "clergy"? It doesn't, not in one place. Instead, you are reading this into the verses and thereby contradicting the very hermeneutical principles you are trying to uphold.
---ShaunT on 11/9/07

#4 - And, if you still believe it does speak only to "priests", then you have another dilemma because Paul starts by saying "...let every man have his own wife."

Likewise, later on he also advises to marry than to "burn". Face it, this is not a RC vs "protestant" issue, it is doctrines of men vs. the authority of Scriptures. The Scriptures are clear and only wresting them to uphold an anti-Scriptural teaching will say otherwise.
---ShaunT on 11/9/07

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#5 - I cannot make it any clearer and will not beat this issue to death. Peace in the risen Lord.
---ShaunT on 11/9/07

#1 - Greyrider - I totally disagree. Jesus said he would said the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. How did the NT writers live by every word of the OT when many of them had no knowledge of the ancient language Hebrew which was not spoken at the time except maybe for the very religious Jews? Why were the Scriptures able to make Timothy, and his mother and grandmother wise unto salvation when they were not scholars, nor were they part of the "historical context" of those things written?
---ShaunT on 11/9/07


While what you say is true, Paul in NO WAY forbids married priests (since he specifically mentions them having a wife). In fact, family men are encouraged later in the same chapter:

1 Timothy 4-5:
"4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity,"
"5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)"
---StrongAxe on 11/9/07

If you are called to be celibate and become a priest great. If you aren't then don't.
It is simple.
The problem is some try to be celibate and it is not what God wants for them.
They can be a pastor or reverend in another church.
The Priesthood is not for them.

I know alot of honest and faithful priests that are not abusers.
---Lisa on 11/8/07

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Strong Axe and ShaunT - By reading a translation and not having a knowledge of the historical context in which the NT was written, you are pulling the Scriptures radically out of context to proof text your own beliefs. At the time the Church was started, there were very few single men. The Scriptures limited the priesthood to men who had ONLY one wife. Divorced and remarried men were disqualified. But from the beginning, the preference for a celibate priesthood (like Paul) was taught.
---Greyrider on 11/8/07


In the same chapter:
1 Co. 8-9:
"8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I."
"9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn."

In fact, for clergy (at least congregational leaders), the reverse is true:
1 Timothy 3:2
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach,"
---StrongAxe on 11/8/07

#2 - "And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his WIFE's mother laid, and sick of a fever." (Mt 8:14)

"Have we not power to lead about a sister, a WIFE, as well as other APOSTLES, and as the brethren of the Lord, AND Cephas?" (I Cor 9:5)

In Paul's command to Timothy to "...ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the HUSBAND of one WIFE, having faithful CHILDREN not accused of riot or unruly."
(Ti 1:5-6)
---ShaunT on 11/7/07

Lisa - you are correct, it is acceptable for an individual to choose to abstain from marriage to better serve the Lord as Paul taught in I Cor 7. The lie is commanding it for ALL who want to serve God as shepherds/elders. This is the lie and heresy because Paul states elsewhere in I Tim and Titus that shepherds/elders were required to be married. And he gives the reason why by asking the rhetorical question: (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
---ShaunT on 11/7/07

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#1 Greyrider - You are wresting the scriptures to promote the lie of Rome's commanding priests/nuns to be unmarried. Totally ignoring the Scriptures I provided (and the others I did not) which say it is a REQUIREMENT for pastors/shepherds/bishops, etc. to BE married. I Cor 7:32-33 is talking about an individual choosing to be unmarried and NOT something they do by constraint of a religious hierarchy. Peter was married, the apostles were married.
---ShaunT on 11/7/07

The problem is really this.
Vatican II. This council was infiltrated by modernists, socialists and Communists to tear down and eventually destroy the Catholic Church.
---Lisa on 11/7/07

Forgiveness is a command from Jesus!
not 7 times ...but 77 x how many times we must forgive...
That doesn't mean that Justice should not be served. It should.

I think their is some kind of conspiracy against the Catholic church in America. I think the cases are less then what has been said.
---Lisa on 11/7/07

"How can we Forgive ongoing sexual abuse like this?"Its not OUR call,The transgression is a sin of the flesh equivalent to the Tares planted by the enemy in the fields.He willdo justice to those who offend IMHO.Meanwhile the law of the land should be excersised .
---Emcee on 11/7/07

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Whether or not priests marry is irrelevant when you consider that over 80% of the victims are young men 15-17, not young girls. Also celibacy among the clergy IS taught in 1 Corinthians 7:32-34
---Greyrider on 11/7/07

the big picture has nothing to do with being a Catholic priest. The statistics are that child abuse percentage rates thrive most in "mother & father" traditional family environment.
I checked the study / reports and it is true.
Plus Paul wrote in is better to stay single and be able to serve God fully without distractions such as having a wife and family.
So it is not wrong to be called to remain celibate.
---Lisa on 11/6/07

Look at the bigger Picture Jesus says to scandalise "any one such little ones It is better to have a mill stone tied around his Neck & be cast into the sea": there fore it is His decision & He will eek vengence.Just like the tares in his field.But what about those who seek Gain,monetary Gain?what about Goverments who turn their faces the other way, is this crime applicable to ONE denomination or is it a world wide traversity of Justice.Are we back to the days of Sodom?
---Emcee on 11/5/07

Look at the bigger Picture Jesus says to scandalise "any one such little ones It is better to have a mill stone tied around his Neck & be cast into the sea": there fore it is His decision & He will eek vengence.Just like the tares in his field.But what about those who seek Gain,monetary Gain?what about Goverments who turn their faces the other way, is this crime applicable to ONE denomination or is it a world wide traversity of Justice.Are we back to the days of Sodom?
---Emcee on 11/5/07

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#2 - A topic addressed by Paul where he teaches in I Corinthians 7:9 that it is better to marry than burn, but not so in Rome as the word of God is made of none effect because of her traditions.

Traditions which the Spirit warned about even back then and continues to even today as (see #3):
---ShaunT on 11/5/07

#3 - "...the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."
(I Tim 4:1-4).
---ShaunT on 11/5/07

#4 - And the kicker is that all the while the Scriptures require marriage as a pre-req for shepherds and overseers (i.e. bishops) in God's church.

"If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then MUST be blameless, the HUSBAND of one WIFE...One that ruleth well his own house, having HIS CHILDREN in subjection with all gravity, (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)" (I Tim 3:2,4-5)
---ShaunT on 11/5/07

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