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Mormon Temples Rituals

What goes on in the Mormon Temples? Who is "Temple worthy"? Why do Mormons wear a special undergarment?

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The Teaching of the LDS and Paul on what happens to the dead are not compatible. Paul in Romans 1 & 2 says that those who follow GOD even though mistaken are judged by the conscious. GOD saves them in his way. There is no talk or teaching about baptism for the dead and what it means.

The Dead are asleep in the grave until the resurrection. Notice the New Testament never speaks of bodiless souls but always point to the resurrection of the dead.
---Samuel on 2/18/09


The points on which we disagree are whether everyone has the opportunity to accept Christ after death, and whether you can be baptized for the dead. I maintain that only those who did not hear the gospel or reject Christ will have that opportunity, and that baptism is not necessary after death, because water baptism cannot wash your sins away. It is something you do out of obedience, and no one can do that for you, just as no one can repent, confess or believe for you. It is symbolic of both the death and resurrection of Jesus, and you dying to sin and being raised in newness of life.

Other than the Corinthians, who did a lot of wrong things, there is no evidence that the early church practiced baptism for the dead.
---Laurie on 2/17/09

I'm not sure we are disagreeing on this last point. Mormons would agree that while the body is in the grave awaiting resurrection, that it is dead. It is the spirits of the dead that Christ preached to, not their bodies. And why would they be preached to if they cannot accept Christ at that point? And if all must be baptized to be saved (Mark 16:16) and if God's laws are just and merciful, then either these dead are baptized after their bodies are resurrected, or as mormons and Paul believed, the living could be baptized for the dead. Even if you don't believe in Mormonism or Joseph Smith, I think a true seeker after truth would have to admit that the teachings of Paul and Peter and mormonism are compatible on this point.
---Wendell on 2/17/09

Those who take 1 Peter out of context can get this idea of JESUS preaching to the dead. 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The Gospel was preached to the people by Noah by the Power of the HOLY SPIRIT. The Gospel is preached to us today by the Power of the HOLY SPIRIT that those who choose to die in sin can have no excuss.

The dead are asleep. The LDS makes them into gods not mortal humans. Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
---Samuel on 2/17/09


False teachers often say things that make sense to people, otherwise they wouldn't have any followers. JW's have a lot of members because what they teach made sense to some, and the same can be said of many false religions.

Peter said the dead know nothing because our bodies are still a part of us, to be resurrected at a later date, but when in the grave the body knows nothing. After death, Jesus preaches to the spirit, not the body, and only to those who did not know about or reject Him.

To those who have heard the gospel, NOW is the day of salvation. The writer would not have said this if you can get saved even after death.
---Laurie on 2/17/09

Wendell: "This makes sense to me."

There are many things that "make sense" to a modern day human having worldly knowledge of worldly things.
---Steveng on 2/16/09


The problem is that 1 Peter 4 specifically has the dead being preached to and if the dead basically know nothing and can do nothing, then why would they be preached to. Mormons believe that those who die without knowing Christ can be preached to by Christ and those believers that have also passed on. And, if they choose to accept Christ's gospel, that they can receive the blessings of the gospel. This makes sense to me. It seems to follow the bibles teachings on the necessity of baptism (Mark 16:16) and also shows God is a just God that follows his own rules, but that also has made plans of great and loving mercy to allow all to be partakers of Christ's great gift.
---Wendell on 2/15/09

Amen Steven.

The dead are asleep just like Paul says.

1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
---Samuel on 2/13/09


There are many arguments against the idea that Paul was teaching or advocating baptism for the dead. One is, Paul doesn't say what will "WE" do who are baptized for the dead, but what will "those" do, using a third person pronoun. The church of Corinth had a lot of problems, one of which was not believing in resurrection of the dead, which is the main point he is addressing here. - cont.
---Laurie on 2/12/09

The dead know not anything. They experience neither joy nor sorrow, pleasure nor suffering, wisdom nor knowledge. The dead cannot praise God. They have no knowledge of anything done under the sun until their awakening in the resurrection. The first resureection, at the last blow of the trumpets is when the dead in Christ rise first and the living shall be caught up with them. The second resurrection at the end of the thousand year reign of Jesus, all other dead from the beginning shall rise and be judged from the Book of Life based upon their works. Blessed are they that rise in the first resurrection.

Satans continued lie since Eve: Ye shall not surely die.
---Steveng on 2/12/09

1. Paul stated that Baptism for the Dead was proof of the validity of the doctrine of the resurrection.
2. Paul knew you couldn't use a false doctrine to prove a true one.
3. Therefore, Paul was teaching that Baptism for the Dead is a true doctrine.
4. Christ taught that baptism is essential for salvation (Mark 16:16) and did not exempt anyone (living or dead).
5. Baptisms for the dead are necessary for there to be justice, because many did not have the opportunity to hear and accept Christ's gospel while they lived.
6. The gospel is preached to the dead so that they may be judged just like the living (1 Peter 4).
7. God is loving and just and this is why He allows for Baptisms for the Dead (which are biblical).
---Wendell on 2/12/09

Although baptism is commanded, like believing, confessing and repenting, the fact that Jesus does preach to the dead tells us those who were unable to hear the gospel will have the opportunity to believe, confess and repent. Baptism, which is the public outward expression of what God has done, would not be necessary after death.
---Laurie on 2/11/09


Do you have a scriptural reference to support this theory? One that contradicts the words of Jesus Christ that say baptism is a MUST? It doesn't appear to exclude anyone - dead or alive.
---HappyLDS on 2/12/09

"Jesus Himself went to the OT saints, preached the gospel to them, and granted them entrance to heaven (without being baptized). He did not preach to the dead unbelievers." - Laurie

They were baptized- With the Holy Spirit of Christ.
Jesus preached to ALL who were in hades(sheol). Those who believed went to Heaven, those who did not stayed in what is now hell.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit of Christ is what is needed. Check out the book of Acts, it talks all about it.
---miche3754 on 2/12/09


Jesus story of Lazarus and the rich man contradicts the idea that He preached to disobedient OT people. The spirits in I Peter 3:19-20 are believed to be demons whom Jesus triumphed over (see Col. 2:15).

Although baptism is commanded, like believing, confessing and repenting, the fact that Jesus does preach to the dead tells us those who were unable to hear the gospel will have the opportunity to believe, confess and repent. Baptism, which is the public outward expression of what God has done, would not be necessary after death.
---Laurie on 2/11/09

The bible clearly teaches the need for baptism. Christ said: "He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved" Mark 16:16. This verse is in the last paragraph of teachings that Christ gave to his apostles. If I were leaving those I loved and had intrusted them with an important work, my last words would be chosen for their importance. Also, it is interesting that about the first teachings of Peter after Christ's ascension is Acts 2:38- "...Repent AND BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISION OF SINS...". Peter understood that baptism was essential. He didn't just say, "glad you accepted our message of Christ, don't worry about baptism".
---Wendell on 2/11/09

Read 1 Peter 3:18-21 and 1 Peter 4:6. Peter teaches: Christ went to "spirits in prison". Who were these spirits? They were disobedient people from the OT times. Peter refers to the baptism of the earth in Noah's day and then says in like manner, baptism now saves us. Peter then says in chapter 4 that the gospel was preached to the dead (probably no need to preach to believers since they already believe). Why was it preached? So they could be judged like men in the flesh. What is one of the requirements for salvation of "men in the flesh". Baptism (see Mark 16:16). Interesting to note that the Book of Mark is regarded by many as the Gospel of Peter because Mark seems to have worked directly with Peter.
---Wendell on 2/11/09

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I wasn't talking about an "only taught once, so it doesn't count" doctrine, whatever that is.

What I said was that no other scriptures found in the Bible support the idea that Paul was teaching baptism for the dead. A doctrine built on one passage must still be supported by the rest of scripture, and this one is not. Jesus Himself went to the OT saints, preached the gospel to them, and granted them entrance to heaven (without being baptized). He did not preach to the dead unbelievers.

Those who thru no fault of their own did not hear the gospel will be dealt with directly by Jesus, who knows their hearts and whether they wanted to know the true God.
---Laurie on 2/10/09


Your angry ranting about church doctrines and history shows what I've been saying all along, Mormonism and Christianity are incompatible. At least you're honest enough to say it instead of pretending we are fellow Christians.

Your take on church history is not completely accurate, nor do you have a correct understanding of what all churches teach about salvation.

I've read the history of Mormonism, it's not a pretty picture, either, but what's important is whether the teachings of Mormonism are true. They are not. JS proved himself to be a false prophet, and that's all we need to know.
---Laurie on 2/10/09


Are you sure you want to hold to the "only taught once, so it doesn't count" doctrine. I know if we took out all the stories and doctrines that are only taught once in the bible, we wouldn't have much left. The "in the mouth of two or more" doctrine may apply here, if so, we all need to look at a lot of our beliefs, because most biblical stories are only told once, most prophecies only given once and many doctrines only taught once. Maybe we aren't required by God to believe on just one witness, but when the witness is an apostle or prophet of God, it might be wise to still err on the side of following what they say till some other messanger from God says differently.
---Wendell on 2/10/09

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This is futher added to in Matthew 23 and 25.

I am not sure when but a few years ago the LDS finally decided some of their great riches could be spent to help non mormons.
---Samuel on 2/10/09

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3- Jesus also said: "Be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect." How do we follow the greatest example of them all. We live our lives and take baby steps to perfection. If you never kill anyone, you are perfect in that. If you never swear, drink alcohol to become drunk, take drugs, commit adultery or sleep with others before marriage, you are on the road to perfection. If you never swear or take God's name in vain, forgive those around you that hurt you, pray as families, read the scriptures each day to know what they say, live in righteousness, you are becoming perfect as your father is perfect. Repent always of things you do wrong in sincerity, not false confessions. Then you are seeking first the kingdom of heaven.
---ashley on 2/10/09

everyone is saved from death through the resurrection of Jesus. it doesn't mean everyone enters his kingdom that professes I believe. Except you repent, you shall not enter his kingdom. Many say they don't have to do anything. False: Paul states in Rev. "And the books were opened and the dead were judged by their works." Anyone can scream praise God, but as Jesus said, endure in faith to the end. That means you live your life as an example 24-7, not when it's convenient. Why do you think the bible talks about everyone that will be cast out for adultery, fornication, lies, profanity, drunkeness. Broad is the path and wide is the gate for christians that follow wickedness and only a few will find the gate that leads to God's kingdom.
---ashley on 2/10/09

How ironic that someone that follows the doctrines of man that were conceived during the reformation, after the writings of Calvin, 1563 states that their own church doesn't practise many things spoken of in the bible. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact the first bibles put in the hands of the people was the catholic bible that was put together after the original was sealed away for fifteen centuries by the Pope. It was only released after the council of trent, 1563. Before that men asked the people what they believed, leading to segregation and hatred that destroyed families. Hundreds of churches formed after ideas of man, after listening to the reformers in opposition to Catholicism. That is written in history, non-disputable.
---ashley on 2/10/09

Happy LDS,

This is a controversial passage, and has been interpreted different ways, however, no Christian churches hold to the understanding that Mormons have, nor do they baptize for the dead. JS claimed the early church practiced it, and Paul taught it. Problem is, he didn't prove they practiced it, and his statement about Paul is unsubstantiated.

Many have expressed opinions on why Paul used this in his defense of the resurrection of the dead, my position remains that nowhere else in the Bible does scripture support the idea that Paul taught baptism of the dead.

Mormons believe they can become gods, so I guess it's no surprise they don't see a problem deciding who should be saved.
---Laurie on 2/9/09

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Laurie: Do you believe that God is a respector of persons. If you answered no, then you know that he doesn't do things for one person and ignore others. He treats everyone equally. Jesus gave a commandment that everyone has to be baptized or they cannot enter his kingdom. Even he was baptized by John to set the example. We know that many on the earth will never hear of the bible, Jesus Christ etc. Do you believe it is logical that God would cast them aside and forget them, especially if you just said God is not a respector of persons. If everyone is to be judged equally, without favouritism, he prepares a way for everyone to receive those blessings. That is why he has baptism for the dead so no one is ignored.
---ashley on 2/9/09

Laurie, you are talking about two different things. Water baptism is being reborn, as your sins are washed clean and you emerge sin free. Born of the spirit is the gift of the Holy Ghost by those having authority. Many were baptized. It wasn't until the apostles of Jesus arrived in those areas that people received the Holy Ghost. Jesus would send the comforter after he was resurrected to inspire everyone through revelation in his absence. When you live as an example of Christ, you are eligible to hear the still voice of the Holy Ghost. If you expect him to be with you in wickedness, you deceive yourself and it won't happen. The spirit of God cannot dwell in an unclean temple. That is why those who live evil lives are cast out, not embraced.
---ashley on 2/9/09

Mormons do believe in baptism for the dead. As noted earlier, Paul does talk about it. However, you mistakenly said that Paul did not teach it. You apparently missed that Paul used it to prove that the doctrine of resurrection is correct. Paul was very well educated and would have known that you can't use a false doctrine to prove a true one, so in essence, his logical proof is based on the foundation of baptism for the dead. Obviously if his foundation is not solid, his proof is invalid. Either Paul is stupid and being illogical or he is showing his belief in the doctrine of baptisms for the dead.
---Wendell on 2/9/09

Happy LDS,

Water baptism is commanded, however, being born again is more complicated. Peter, speaking of baptism which saves us, was not talking about water baptism, which he equates with taking a bath. Water baptisms were being performed before Jesus rose, but no one could be born again until the Spirit came.

Ezekiel writes that God will sprinkle you with clean water. This is a spiritual cleansing performed by God Himself, by the Spirit. Jesus spoke of "living water" (the Holy Spirit) for those who came to Him.

Water baptism is the outward expression of what God has done. During baptism, we are doing two things, being obedient and getting wet. God is the One who reaches inside to do what we cannot.
---Laurie on 2/8/09

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Happy LDS,

Yes, Paul speaks of baptism for the dead in I Cor. 15:29, however, he is not teaching it. The Bible records many things not endorsed or taught by God, this is one of them.

Baptism for the dead was not being practiced by the early church. First of all, no other scripture teaches this, second, the writings of the early church fathers don't support it.

This was a practice that was common in the pagan religions of Greece and is still practiced today by some cults, but it doesn't change a persons eternal destiny.

Anyone who heard and rejected the gospel has no hope after death. Mormons are giving people a false hope in leading them to believe otherwise.
---Laurie on 2/8/09

1 Cor 15:29: else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all." baptism is essential as said: "except a man be born of the water and of the spirit, he shall NOT enter the kingdom of God." Are those saying they are saved in fact saved. NO. "except ye repent, ye shall NOT enter the kingdom of God." temple garments help us remember promises we make to God, nothing more, nothing less. The sacrament is taken in rememberance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Concerning works, it was Paul in Rev. that said: and the books were opened and the dead were judged according to their works. If you deny even one of the above, you deny Jesus Christ and your faith is false.
---ashley on 2/8/09

Laurie -
I looked up your scripture references in regard to the "bigger picture." I have to tell you that I don't see how they counter the fact that Jesus Christ said a man MUST be baptized to enter the Kingdom of God. He was baptized by immersion - and since I believe he was to be our example I believe this is how it was intended.

In regard to baptism for the dead - maybe you didn't see my earlier post. I Cor 29 speaks clearly about it. This is most definitley Biblical. We do have more complete information about the ordinance as a result of revelation but it was definitely practiced by the early Christians. Again, Paul didn't tell them they were wrong - he asked them why do it if you don't believe in the resurrection.
---HappyLDS on 2/8/09

Happy LDS,

Regarding John 3:3-5, here are verses that give a bigger picture of what Jesus meant by water: I Peter 3:21, Ezekiel 36:25-27, John 4:13, John 7:37-39.

Everything you said about baptism for the dead must come from Mormon literature because it's not in the Bible, and those books are not inspired by God.

Undergarments that give you spiritual, moral and even physical protection sounds like superstition. The armor of God, if that's what you consider the biblical equivalent of these undergarments, is not physical and the writer doesn't claim it protects you physically.

The Bible is clear that marriage ends at death, and that there is no marriage in heaven. On this the Christian churches agree.
---Laurie on 2/7/09

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John T - I've never seen a Mormon denial of the fact that Temple Garments are to be worn at all times...except for bathing, swimming and marital relations. Why would they?

I didn't see your earlier post directed toward me so I apologize for the delay. I have never been "through the ringer" to take the Sacrament (communion). We take it every Sunday in remembrance of the sacrifice Christ made for us and to renew the covenants of baptism. Anyone who wants to take it can do so - a Temple recommend is not a pre-requisite.
---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

This stuff is in defiance of grace, that is free, and unmerited (to be redundant) and there is NOTHING contingent on God's free grace,

You embraces a religion of works, but it is not too late if you repent, NOW
---John_T on 2/2/09

The "works" we embrace are faith, repentance, Baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, obeying the commandments, laws(like tithing)of God and service to our fellow man. The very works that James tells us without faith is dead, the same works that we're told we'll be judged by in the Bible! I think the Bible is pretty clear on that point. cont.
---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

cont. for John T

The "grace" you speak of is in relationship to the free gift given to us by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It is through his sacrifice that ALL mankind (good and evil)will be "saved" from the bonds of death. (John 5:28, 29 , I Cor 21,22) Please note the word ALL used in both scriptural references. We don't have to do anything for this gift - we just have to have been born. This is "grace".
---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

laurie wrote: Do they require that members wear the undergarments at all times?

This is from the ritual I posted earlier for the TBM to EARN the privilege of entering the Temple.

12. If you have received your temple endowment -- (b) Do you wear the authorized garments both day and night?

Meriting that Temple Ticket is important, for if the Mormon wants to get in, no ticket, no Temple, no Temple, no sealing, or Temple wedding.

Therefore it is important for the TBM Mormon to wear those garments 24/7 excepting in the bath and during marital intimacy. Anyone telling you differently IS FLAT OUT LYING, question 12b proves it conclusively.
---John_T on 2/7/09

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Laurie -
John 3:3-5 seems to disagree with you.
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born again when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto to thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT enter the kingdom of God.

"Born of water" sure sounds like baptism.
---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

Laurie -

Jesus told the thief on the cross next to him that he would be with Jesus in paradise - he did not say heaven. The LDS understand that after death our spirit lives on. We continue to learn gospel truths and progress. This includes everyone ever born on this earth. It is here where ALL will have the opportunity to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When a baptism is performed for these individuals they are given the opportunity to accept it or to reject it. Free agency is still intact. All of this will take place before judgement day.
---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

Bryan -
If you read my post you would see that baptism for the dead is indeed scriptural (biblical scripture). Your claim to have read ANY of the Book of Mormon seems unlikely. You say it's a total lie - it witnesses the divinity of Jesus Christ, the importance to live righteously. Total lie? The differences between the Bible and the Book of Mormon are 1.that the BOM is a record of people on the American continent -their lives, struggle, wars, etc. AND their knowledge of Jesus Christ. 2. The Book of Mormon was translated by one person (not written by one) and the Bible has been (and still is) translated and interpretted by many. You don't have to read it but it certainly isn't honest to say you have when it's obvious you haven't.
---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

Speaking as someone who has actually read the Book of Mormon (singular) - I don't recall it saying that Jesus and Satan are brothers. That is one of the favorite statements of anti mormon authors...meant to create the illusion that Mormons somehow exalt Satan...nothing is further from the truth! In the book of revelation we see that Lucifer was indeed once in heaven (it's impossible to be cast out of a place you never were!)

---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

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cont. (for Bryan)
Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God (our Heavenly Father) Jesus and Lucifer (also sons of God)were there and therefore are technically brothers. Lucifer rebelled against what we believe is the plan of salvation and he was cast out - then becoming Satan. My thought is that Lucifer (as an angel of God) would have been our brother - not Satan (what he became).

Jesus is described as the only begotten son in the flesh - we believe this is true. Jesus Christ was chosen to be our example and to provide an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Lucifer was unhappy with that choice and the war in heaven commenced and ended with Lucifer being cast out along with those who supported him.
---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

Laurie -

The Temple Garments are to be worn at all times to remind us of the covenants we've made. They offer us spiritual, mental and moral protection. Some say they provide a physical protection and why not? - through God all things are possible. Early Christians wore special clothing as well.

Yes, we believe that Temple marriages are eternal. I'm aware of scripture in Matthew and Mark that are used to "prove" this doctrine wrong - I've also got a different understanding of them.

I hope these are the "direct" answers you were asking for.
---HappyLDS on 2/7/09

Here's an interesting note about Joseph Smith.
There was a prophet from Romania to the United States and his name was
Dumitru Duduman:

This prophet was asked by some elders from the Mormon Church if he could see Joseph Smith? Yes he said I see him he is standing by Satan at the entrance to hell.
---mima on 2/7/09

Baptizing the dead is false doctrine. It's not even found in scripture, and please don't even try to argue the Book of Mormons in comparison to the Word of God! I've read quite a bit of that doctrine of demons, and it is a total lie! Jesus isn't the brother of Satan, and He isn't just the earth God! He's the creator of all that is, both visible and invisible! The only thing Joseph Smith can be accredited for is one of the largest pedophilia filled adulterous cults on the planet, and a complete lie from Satan called the Book of Mormons! Jesus died for our sin, and rose again! Joseph Smith is still rotting in his grave! There is only One God and Father!
---Bryan on 2/6/09

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Happy LDS,

You are correct in that Christian churches don't practice baptism for the dead. For one thing, water baptism can't save a living person, much less a dead one, and for another, you can't decide for someone else whether they will accept or reject Jesus Christ, or repent on their behalf. God won't force us to accept Him, and He won't let anyone else force us either.

When Jesus said you must be born again, He wasn't talking about water baptism. H2O can't wash away your sins, it is the outward sign of what happened when you repented and God forgave and cleansed your sin. Baptism is done out of obedience, and once you die, that's no longer possible. Paul said "Now is the day of salvation."
---Laurie on 2/6/09

Laurie -
You are partially correct, as far as I know, Christian churches (other than the LDS) don't practice baptism for the dead. Early Christians most certainly did as evident in Paul's words to the Corinthians in I Cor 29. The Corinthians no longer believed in the resurrection but continued to baptize for the dead. Paul doesn't tell them that this practice is incorrect, he asks them why they do it if they no longer believe in the resurrection.

We understand that when Jesus Christ said you MUST be baptized to enter the Kingdom of God - he meant it. Baptizing for the dead provides this opportunity to those who were never given the opportunity while here on earth.
---HappyLDS on 2/6/09


Are you one of those counted worthy to participate in Mormon rituals? If so, maybe you can help me understand what goes on from the perspective of a current member. Do Mormons baptize for the dead? Are their temple marriages eternal? Do they require that members wear the undergarments at all times?

Christians do not baptize for the dead, they believe marriage ends at death, and wearing WWJD bracelets is not required.

It is not my intention to misrepresent anything about the Mormon faith, so please correct me if I am wrong, likewise I would appreciate direct answers to my questions above.

Thank you!
---Laurie on 2/6/09


The rituals said to be practiced in the Mormon temples are well documented. If all the ex-members are lying they've done a pretty good job of convincing people this is/has taken place. Just because people leave a religion or a church that doesn't automatically mean they're lying. The difference here is that if someone left a church and told me certain things were going on there, I could go and see for myself, whereas I can't go into a Mormon temple to ascertain what goes on. I have no more reason to disbelieve them than I do you.

I've asked Wendell some questions about what actually does go on in Mormon temples. Please feel free to enlighten me yourself so I will have the facts as you are presenting them.
---Laurie on 2/6/09

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Might it be true that the authentic LDS church is the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) in Independence, MO, and that the Utah LDS church is a usurper? Just wondering...
---JohnnyB on 2/6/09

The bible states clearly that we are to live as an example of Jesus Christ. I have never read where Jesus commited adultery, lied, commited fornication, or other sins christians do every day. To the contrary, he denounced it and said the above would NOT enter his kingdom. Jesus condemned them, but man says don't worry, do those things, you are forgiven. Get the facts first and pray about it. Men lie, God doesn't.

No person who is truly a Christian does any of these things. Man may say but Christians and most churches I know of do not. GOD wanted one man one woman in Genesis so those who had multiple wives did wrong. Those who did so since the New Testament was written are adulters.
---Samuel on 2/6/09

Laurie: again, you take the word of ex members of the church, whose sole aim is to make others rebel against truth, so they don't feel guilty about leaving. For your information, what happens there isn't secret, it is sacred, the same way we hold Jesus Christ in reverence and follow his teachings in truth and obedience. The bible states clearly that we are to live as an example of Jesus Christ. I have never read where Jesus commited adultery, lied, commited fornication, or other sins christians do every day. To the contrary, he denounced it and said the above would NOT enter his kingdom. Jesus condemned them, but man says don't worry, do those things, you are forgiven. Get the facts first and pray about it. Men lie, God doesn't.
---ashley on 2/6/09

Laurie, much that you say about Mormons is misrepresenting our practices and beliefs. Please stick to actual differences and cocerns, not made up ones.

To set things straight: In our temples we promise to follow God's teachings and to keep sacred things sacred. If this makes me a sinner, I guess so are those who take marital vows to be faithful to their spouse. There is no violent mormon temple oath to harm others who disobey, nor do mormons ever harm others because of their beliefs. We believe in complete freedom of religion. Temple "garments" are to remind us of our commitment to God - much like "WWJD" bracelets, except that garments are less for show, since they are warn under regular clothing.
---Wendell on 2/6/09

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Robert, I just mentioned the splits out of interest. You are right about Protestants. In fact, there are maybe 22,000 Protestant denominations. According to Joseph Smith, the true Temple must be built on the Temple Lot in Independence, Missouri. None of the Utah LDS temples qualify. FYI....
---JohnnyB on 2/5/09


Theres a big difference between a violent oath designed to scare you into obedience to a false religion and people warning others about the consequences of rejecting Jesus Christ.

The testimony of ex-Mormons gives us a pretty good idea of what goes on in Mormon temples, and nothing has been said to contradict what the Bible tells us took place in the Holy of Holies. We're not talking about having a complete record of everything that was said and done every time someone went into the temple, we're talking about the fact that the Bible says nothing about the Jewish priests having to take an oath not to reveal what went on in there, and that unbiblical things are done in the Mormon temple rituals.

---Laurie on 2/5/09

We know only what we are told, about what went on in the holy of holies, just as we only know what we are told about what goes on in Mormon temples. It is presumptuous to assume we have a complete record or knowledge of what went on in the secret and private areas of the old testament temple. Also, as to using oaths and scare tactics, that seems similar to saying confess Jesus or you are going to be damned. I do not care for the sound of the Mormon oaths that are claimed to occur within their temples, but they are oaths of obedience, not threat to others, as is common with the damnation type threat seen in these blogs all the time.
---doug on 2/3/09

There is a world of difference between the Holy of Holies not being open to the public and the Mormon temple. The Bible tells us exactly who was allowed to enter and why, and what took place inside, whereas Mormons are sworn to secrecy with violent oaths designed to strike fear into their hearts. This is unbiblical. God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind. Eternal marriages and baptism for the dead are unbiblical. These things and many others were and are not practiced by the Jews or Christians in the temple or any other place.
---Laurie on 2/3/09

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I once worked with a man who was continually showing his muscles to himself in mirrors. I had a son at the time that was 15 years old and of course he did the same thing. The utterly ridiculousness of this was this man whom I worked with was 50 years old!!!!! When I think of the Mormons and their ritualistic religion I'm reminded of this incident in my life.
---mima on 2/3/09

The garment I look forward to wearing is the White Robe that JESUS CHRIST will give to those who follow Him. It represents the Righteouness of JESUS and we cannot add anything to it at all.

JESUS saves by grace alone. We do not have to work hard enough to get to the point where JESUS saves us.
---Samuel on 2/3/09

I think your question is a valid one, but no more valid than, "would you be willing to be honest and accept beliefs contrary to the bible if that is where the facts led?" Mormons are not alone in having places that were not open to the general public. The old testament temple had inner buildings or rooms, one being "the holy of holies". These areas were restricted to those who were specifically appointed to carry out the work of the temple. I'm doubtful that Mormon temples carry on rituals that are directly related to Old testament temples (thank goodness I don't hear about blood sacrifices), but their lack of openness to the general public is not anti-biblical, but actually similar to biblical temples.
---Doug on 2/2/09


Mormon church leaders say temple ceremonies resemble those of the ancient temple in Jerusalem, but nothing could be further from the truth. There is no evidence that the participants in Jerusalem ever made blood-oaths vowing to keep the ceremony a secret, performed eternal marriages or baptisms for the dead. Nor were participants compelled to wear sacred garments 24 hours a day.

The Bible teaches temple buildings are no longer necessary since the believer is himself a "temple of the living God".

When the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom,this signified that there is now free access to God by the blood of Christ and He Himself is our High Priest. A temple was no longer essential.
---Laurie on 2/2/09

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In all your looking at Christianity, have you EVER had to go through a ringer as I posted in order to have communion? (and in the Evangelical churches, communion is a sacramental remembrance, bestowing no eternal benefits).

This stuff is in defiance of grace, that is free, and unmerited (to be redundant) and there is NOTHING contingent on God's free grace,

You embraces a religion of works, but it is not too late if you repent, NOW
---John_T on 2/2/09

The temple, in the Bible was for mature believers. Jesus, in the Bible, is going to return to his temple suddenly.

If the LDS people did not build temples, regardless of what goes on therein, there would be NO TEMPLE for the Lord to come to. The Lord is not suf=ddenly coming to hishuman body, but to HIS TEMPLE, and when he restored apostles and prophets et al, he also restored all things, including temple worship.

It is ad that people who claim to love God have no opportunity to serve God in His Holy Temple. Temple things were sacred and will never be discussed outside the temple, unless the person speaking about the rituals is in breach of the Word and thus is untrustworthy. By his apostasy, he would cease to be temple worthy.
---Robert on 2/2/09

Dear HappyLDS

Being a theologian does not mean you have the HOLY SPIRIT nor does it mean you do not.

While a layman in the LDS church can teach truth. The Church stands for false doctrine. It places it's prophets above the Bible which can never me true.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
---Samuel on 2/2/09

The RLDS church, the second-largest Latter Day Saint group headquartered in Independence, Missouri, has a beautiful temple but no secret rites. All are welcome there. I am just giving this FYI. I am not a member of the RLDS church.
---JohnnyB on 2/1/09

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Here are the instructions to have the "special endowments" that let you MERIT HEAVEN YEAH, AND PIGS CAN FLY

When interviewing an applicant for a recommend, do not inquire into personal, intimate matters between a husband and his wife.
Generally, do not deviate from the recommend interview questions. If, during an interview, an applicant asks about the propriety of specific conduct, do not pursue the matter.

Merely suggest that if the applicant has enough anxiety about the
propriety of the conduct to ask about it, the best course would be to discontinue it.

If you are sensitive and wise, you usually can prevent those being interviewed from asking such explicit questions.
---John_T on 2/1/09

(part 2)

Interview Questions for Recommends to Enter a Temple

1. Do you believe in God, the Eternal Father, in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost, and do you have a firm testimony of the restored gospel?

2. Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator, and do you recognize him as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?

3. Do you sustain the other General Authorities and the local authorities of the Church?

4. Do you live the law of chastity?

5. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
---John_T on 2/1/09

(part 3)

6. Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?

7. Do you earnestly strive to do your duty in the Church, to attend your sacrament, priesthood, and other meetings, and to obey the rules, laws, and commandments of the gospel?

8. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

9. Are you a full-tithe payer?

10. Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?
---John_T on 2/1/09

(part 4)
11. Have you ever been divorced or are you now separated from your spouse under order of a civil court? If yes, (a) - Are you current in your support payments and other financial obligations for family members, as specified by court order or in other written, binding commitments? (b) Were there any circumstances of transgression in connection
with your divorce or separation that have not been previously resolved with your bishop?

12. If you have received your temple endowment -- (a) Do you keep all the covenants that you made in the temple? (b) Do you wear the authorized garments both day and night?

13. Has there been any sin or misdeed that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but has not?
---John_T on 1/31/09

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I'm not intentionally avoiding your question but your question makes me uncomfortable. I feel like answering "do you want to know the truth about God..." is asking me to deny what has been witnessed to me by the Holy Ghost. I can't do it, I won't do it. I hope that you understand that.

I can tell you that I haven't been LDS all my life, I have been to other churches. I have listened to the men who have gone to school and received degrees in theology. Some better than others. I have listened to speakers in my meetings - people without formal training and received more spiritual edification from them because most are guided by the Spirit and the Spirit witnesses to me the truths they speak.
---HappyLDS on 1/23/09

Happy LDS: While I appreciate your response I believe that a sincere person such as yourself can give a simple yes or no answer to my question if you will take time to search your heart. Let us try again. Do you really want to know the truth about God even if it means dismissing Mormon teachings? Ashley I put the same question to you.
---David on 1/23/09


I've been okay with most of your posts (except for the one I told you about). My only issue with them is a question of your sources because they tend be out of context quotes. I explained why the Lectures of Faith were removed from the D & C (fear they would be confused with revelations). Both the Journal of Discourses and Lectures of Faith are available to anyone who wants them - the church doesn't try to hide them.
As I have explained before - a prophet isn't prophesying unless he claims to be speaking for God. These men are free to theorize all they want to. Kind of funny since the common accusation about the church is that we are brainwashed - quite the opposite is true.
---HappyLDS on 1/22/09


I worship the same God that you do. My understanding of Him is a little different but He is the same. I don't any other way to answer your question. There are times when I wish I felt my understanding was wrong - it would make life a lot less complicated BUT it certainly wouldn't make me happier. Glenn Beck said it perfectly in his conversion story, "An Unlikely Mormon". He said he didn't want to be Mormon because: who chooses to be told he's stupid, or that he's in league with the devil, or that he isn't a Christian? No one chooses to hear these things but we do because we know it to be true.
---HappyLDS on 1/22/09

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Well the blog about the soul dying seems to have disappeared. But the LDS share with Hindus the type of precreation soul life that they teach. Also common in the New Age movement. But not taught by the Bible.

So my challenge here to Mormons is that Smith and all the following prophets are opposed by the bible and feel they can change what is taught by GOD.
---Samuel on 1/22/09

Happy & Ashley. I find that my posts - right or wrong - are becoming too negative. I would like to ask the two of you a question that is more positive: **IF! IF! God is the eternal God with no beginning, and the man/god of Mormonism is not the true god, Do you want to know it?
---David on 1/22/09

Ashley, you are being lied to by whoever told you that. There were serious changes made in 1991. Most of the bloody oaths were *sanitized*. Some of the chanting removed. The garment radically changed. I admire you and Happy LSD for your honest endeavor to search for God. I pray FOR your enlightenment. I cannot pray WITH you as you serve a different god.
---David on 1/20/09

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