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Tithing Gross Or Net

Which is correct, tithing gross or net income or everything? My pastor said, that we should give everything as tithes and offerings except what little bit we need to live. Or else we are "robbing God". Is this true? He referred me to Malachi Ch3.

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Tithes first mentioned and practiced 430 years before the law between Abraham and Melchizedek Genesis 14:20
Jacob continued the practice with a personal vow of commitment Genesis 28:22
Israel was commanded to tithe under the law.
Leviticus 27:30,Malachi 3:10
Jesus Himself advised and condoned the continuation of the tithe "done/undone"
Matthew 23:23
Paul continues the teaching by bringing Melchizedek back into the picture as Jesus.
Hebrews 6:20
---Larry on 12/14/09

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

If you are giving money to a church or Mr. "Blab-it-and-grab-it" on TV and not paying your bills or loading up your credit cards for junk you don't need and not putting food on the table, you are a hypocrit and an infidel.
You take the name of God in vain.
---Chipper on 5/24/07

why do we grumble and say pastors are spending our hard earned cash? How do u know that Pastors are looking after that money? He has his own treasurers in the church who do all those things and pastor has nothing 2do with it..let alone handle money..why do u grumble indeed. If u think he is spending it, then why do u bother giving? God wants a cheerful giver, not one who grumbles yet expect to get to heaven...
---jana on 5/11/07

Can anyone show proof in the New Testament where we are taught or told to tithe?
If it was that important and essential to our salvation, don't you think Jesus would have taught it? There's nothing in the "Sermon on the Mount" about it either. That's Matthew ch's 5,6 & 7.
I believe in giving "willfully", but demanding like churches today. It's wrong and they try to intimidate the congregation into giving so they can fulfill all their "selfish ambitions".
---Chipper on 5/9/07

Tithing is a good way for some preachers to get more money and continue the high living they have become accustomed to. We are to give according to what God has blessed us with. I do not belive tithing is for this dispensation (for today's church) But we are to give out of love and not force or duty. Money is needed to further the Kingdom of God, not to line some slick preachers pockets with wads of my hard-earned money. Yes---I do love to give.
---Robyn on 5/8/07

Don't mean to sound bitter or disrespectful towards preachers. I love my pastor and He loves my pocketbook. He stands in front of the church and tells us to our face what he intends to do to us, in so many words. He wants to get rich. Plain and simple! He asks for money and more money every time we get together. Where is the love? We have given more than enough money to pay the bills. Also his salary. What do we get?
---Robyn on 5/8/07

How did tithing the tenth of your excess on the herd, flock, seed & of the land turn into 10% of your gross monetary income? When the law was set aside & the superior covenant, that of the Spirit, where Christ now resides as Head Priest did the tithing law change also? It appears that some people believe certain scritpures exist in a vacuum, or they love to pick & choose scripture for personal interpretation. Only those ignorant to grace & law would teach a doctrine of tithing, woe to you hypocrites.
---Ryan_Z on 5/7/07

Tithe 10% of your GROSS income because THAT is what you actually EARNED. Anything you give above that is STRICTLY between YOU and GOD (YAHUVEH). That is NOT for some pastor to dictate. I definately believe GOD (YAHUVEH) expects us to give. His Kingdom work DOES cost money. And He wants His servants INVOLVED in His Work. He OWNS ALL His servants have anyway!
---Gordon on 5/7/07

In regards to the issue of tithing on gross or net, I will not split hairs with God, because when I'm in need, I don't want him to split hairs with me. If I am generous and faithful, I can expect the same generosity and faithfulness in return. Hold material possessions loosely... they do not belong to you in the first place. It ALL belongs to God. We are just His managers of what He has entrusted to us.
---Amy on 5/6/07

Ryan Z:
That is a good question and I don't have an answer for you. There were no priests as of yet to give it to because Jacob did not have the boys yet. They most likely did not have local churches either. Maybe he just used them as burnt offerings to the Lord on his own.
---Chipper on 4/21/07

Chipper, I am not contending that Jacob made a vow, that is obvious in scripture. I want to know where in scripture that Jacob fulfilled his vow and to whom did he tithe?
---Ryan_Z on 4/21/07

Even when Cyrus called for the rebuilding of the temple, there was no tithe rquired.

Ezra 1:4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

Freewill offering ... not a tithe of anything.
---Chipper on 4/21/07

The giving to build the temple was of "free will" and "according to their ability".

Ezra 2:68 And some of the chief of the fathers, when they came to the house of the LORD which is at Jerusalem, offered freely for the house of God to set it up in his place:
69 They gave after their ability unto the treasure of the work threescore and one thousand drams of gold, and five thousand pound of silver, and one hundred priests' garments.
---Chipper on 4/21/07

Even when Cyrus called for the rebuilding of the temple, there was no tithe rquired.

Ezra 1:4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

Freewill offering ... not a tithe of anything.
---Chipper on 4/21/07

This tithe that Jacob vowed is found in Genesis 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
But!, notice that Jacob made the vow. God did not require it of him.
And Jacob vowed to give it to God.
---Chipper on 4/19/07

Regarding this study on tithes and tithing and just exactly what Jacob did and did not do .... may I suggest a word study program that is free to download off the internet? If you Google "theophilus" you will find it. It will allow you to do word searches and phrase searches to find any word in the Bible and where it is.
---Chipper on 4/11/07

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Ryan_Z-Interesting, thank you.

I've looked for that passage before, but couldn't find it. I'm pretty sure I remember reading them in the Bible myself, but then when I looked for it again later I couldn't find it.

Thank you very much for the striking contrast of how people were to redeem/sell their tithe. The other strange thing I notice from my human reasoning is that the system seems unfair.Pay more vs. buy whatever you want -- just doesn't seem fair.
---Sheila on 4/10/07

jerry6593, one more question for you my friend. To whom did Jacob tithe to?
---Ryan_Z on 4/10/07

Sheila, a little side note to your response. If the journey was to long to bring your tithe than you were to sell your tithe and spend the money on whatever your heart desired. So on the one hand to redeem the tithe you had to add a fifth, and on the other hand if the journey was to long you were to sell your tithe and spend the money on whatever your heart desired, including strong drink.
---Ryan_Z on 4/10/07

Jerry6593-You believe a person ought to tithe of their gross income?

You do realize that if you're tithing cash, you need to be giving 12% right?

Lev 27:31 If a man wishes to redeem some of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it.

"as, supposing the tithe was worth fifty shillings, then he gave that, and ten shillings more, and so in proportion." (Gill)
---Sheila on 4/10/07

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jerry6593, if you can not read scripture honestly then our discussion is over. I don't argue against the tithe I merely point out that Christians are not under any covenant that commands them to tithe.
---Ryan_Z on 4/10/07

Ryan Z: It sure looks like a tithe to me. What is your motivation for arguing against tithing?
---jerry6593 on 4/10/07

jerry6593, the scripture you quote is not an example of Jacob tithing it is an example of Jacob making a vow. Beyond this vow we have no proof of Jacob tithing and a vow is certainly not a tithe, is it?
---Ryan_Z on 4/9/07

Ryan Z: I gave it. Jacob tithed in Gen 28:22:

"of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee."
---jerry6593 on 4/9/07

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Scripture regarding Israel/Jacob and his tithing.
Genesis 28:20,21,22.
But notice that Jacob first said, "If God will be with me", then vs 22: "of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee".
But God never required him to tithe.
This was Jacobs vow to the Lord.
---Chipper on 4/9/07

jery6593, when did I say Abram never tithed? I said, concerning the story of Milchesidek, that Abram did not tithe of his personal wealth. Beyond this story we have no account, in the Holy Scriptures, of Abram or Abraham tithing. Can you give an example of Jacob (a.k.a. Israel) tithing?
---Ryan_Z on 4/8/07

It is my opinion that pastors who use the text in Malachi 3:10 to coerce their flocks and make them feel guilty for not tithing, are wrong.
Now if that church is using these funds to help the needy in the flock, then fine. But if this money is used for new pews, choir robes, a baskeball court, a motorcycle for your pastor, etc. well, use your head people!
---Chipper on 4/8/07

When the first church in Acts chapter 4 were so filled with the Holy Ghost, they were so humbled that they felt nothing they possessed really belonged to them. They had all things in common. So they pooled all their resources and distribution was made to all who had need... and no one did without.

Verse 35 ...and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
God must be highly displeased with they way we use these funds in the church today.
---Chipper on 4/8/07

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Chipper-There's a way to tithe cash:
Lev 27:31"if a man will at all redeem anything of his tithes,he shall add to it the 5th part of it".
tithe worth 50 shillings,then he gave that,&10 shillings more(Gill)

When I use the word "tithe" I usu. mean 1/10.But to be less confusing I ought to just say 1/10.

Those who think ought to tithe from gross,I'm wondering how they think it ought be done if your day's pay went to babysitting?
---Sheila on 4/7/07

Tithe was food! for further proof of this in the Old Testament please see Nehemiah 13: 5 thru 13.
Nehemiah 13:12 Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.
These "treasuries" were the "storehouse" of the temple. Eliashib put Tobiah in charge of this particular "storehouse".
This is the same type of storehouse that Malachi spoke of in Malachi 3:10
Tithing was not money.
---Chipper on 4/7/07

Chipper-I apologize I said my whole check has gone to the sitter.Actually at times it's been just my whole day's pay(&I was thinking of that as a check,but it's not) that has gone for that day of babysitting to the sitter.Did it cuz I needed to hold the job for when there's profit(needed income from somewhere).Was good for kids to be with other kids&listen to a different authority.Brought it up for those who don't understand giving in new cov cuz how's a person supposed to tithe gross off that?
---Sheila on 4/7/07

Chipper-1 Tim5:8 "But if any provide not for his own,&specially for those of his own house,he hath denied the faith,&is worse than an infidel."

True,but sounds harsh.If I raised my kids without income(enough to support us),I'd be worse than an infidel -- taking verse at face-value anyway.

Seems it's missing other scripture to show truly what it means,or someone with sudden medical bills(or such)they can't pay to provide for family is worse than an infidel,&that makes no sense.
---Sheila on 4/7/07

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Ryan Z: If Abram (Jacob's grandfather) didn't tithe, then where did Jacob learn it from (ref. Gen 28:22).
---jerry6593 on 4/7/07

RyanZ: you are correct in that the tithe was given to the house of the Lord from the "increase" of the herds, flocks, cattle, grains, and fruits .... so that there would be "meat" (food) for the needy in Gods storehouses.

These people fail to read Malachi 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
---Chipper on 4/7/07

My dear lady, if you are working and your whole pay goes to pay your sitter, maybe you should consider just staying at home and raising your child(ren). Don't let your church or TV evangelist put a guilt trip on you.
The Apostle Paul said: 1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
---Chipper on 4/6/07

Part 1. so when I did believed in tithing it was like this: All the money you earned is your gross. Then you have bills; taxes, rent, cable, phone, light, etc. Taxes are a bill just like the rest but the government has the ability to take their money first. The cable guy has to wait his turn.
---Tami on 4/6/07

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Part 2.The question is do you pay tithes on what you made (gross) or on what's left over after you pay your bills? Do you wait until your rent, visa, student loans get paid first? No! Then you shouldn't wait until after your taxes are paid. If you believe in paying a tithe, then you should pay on your gross. I no longer believe in paying tithes but I do believe in giving at least 10%. But that doesn't go to a church building. It goes to charity. It's the less fortunate that needs our help.
---Tami on 4/6/07

In a word, WRONG!

Annanias and Sapphira died because they lied.
As evident from reading the story, the land was theirs before it was sold and after it was sold. They evidently made a vow to give ALL the proceeds to the church, but later decided to keep back a portion of it. They lied to the Holy Ghost. This was their sin for which they died.
---Chipper on 4/6/07

Rebecca_D, Abram tithed a tenth of the spoils of war to Milchesidek and gave the other 90% to the people of Soddom, it's in the bible you just need to read it. Abram never tithed of his personal wealth. Hebrews is very clear that it was a tenth of the spoils of war.
---Ryan_Z on 4/6/07

I've heard this verse about "will a man rob God?" for years.
I am convinced the pastors use it to intimidate their flock into giving just to satisfy their own selfish ambition.
Just look at what this money is being used for in your churches. Is it to provide for the needs of the flock, food for the hungry, as utility bills, Dr. bills, glasses, medical attention, hearing aids, and much more? Or is it going for new carpet, choir robes, new pews, fabulous sound systems, etc.?
---Chipper on 4/6/07

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Lev 27:31 tells TRUE cash tithe.
"Give to Caesar what's Caesar's&to God what's God's"(Mt.22:21).It's ALL God's!If we don't give ALL to God,we need give "Caesar" what's his.Jesus listed gov.1st to give to gov 1st( Mt.17:24-27)if only not to offend.Jesus DIDN'T tithe of coin in fish.NT says give cheerfully(for me It's 10%net,sometimes more,but I'm not cheerful to give less or to give of gross.Sometimes100% of my check goes to sitter,so how am I to tithe gross from that?)
---Sheila on 4/6/07

Tithing belongs to the Old Covenant. "..not grudgingly or of necessity, for God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Corinthians 9:7) is the New Covenant. There is freedom in cheerful giving. Giving grudgingly, or of necessity, creates bondage. The Old Covenant was done away with on the Cross.
---Helen_5378 on 4/6/07

In a word:


Ask Ananias and his wife.
---Robert on 4/5/07

tell your pastor to stop reading only
3 and read the whole ch. and he will see that it was the pastors that was really robing God by givng their defected and sick
anamials jessu said that we are to pay cearser things to him.(yourbills)god loves a cheerful giver who gives from their heart you will not be cursed.
---mae on 4/5/07

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Ryan Z; Yes Abraham gave a tenth of all. Gen 14:18-20, Heb 7:2. I didn't make this up, just read the bible, the proof is right there.
---Rebecca_D on 4/5/07

If you stopped tithing this week, would the guilt you feel be coming from the pressures and teachings of your church, or from the Holy Scriptures?
I used to believe in a lot of different things that I no longer believe. I started searching the scriptures and changed my thinking. The guilt I felt, for a time, was due to the guilt the church put on me, not God.

Be careful you do not look at the word of God through the eyes of your church.
---Chipper on 4/5/07

Chipper I hear you and I understand you, I use to be the one to focus on the 10 of commandments, however, there are around 370 different types of sins listed in the Bible, the Bible says you are to give the first fruits, before, you pay for all your other stuff. God is not going to let us slide on this and let us go on that. The Bible states that, Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven Mt. 5:20.
---Cynthia_1 on 4/5/07

**No, Abraham gave Melchizedek a tenth of all he had.**

Abram did not give a tenth of all he had, he gave a tenth of the spoils of war. Abram never tithed from his personal wealth.
---Ryan_Z on 4/5/07

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I am not condemning you or anyone else for tithing. I am saying it is nowhere taught in the New Covenant that we are required to tithe. It wasn't even a command in the Ten Commandments.
If you are "paying" tithes and not paying your bills, utilities, credit cards,car pymts, mortgage, etc, I can tell you God is not pleased.
I Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
---Chipper on 4/4/07

Did I say it was money? No, Abraham gave Melchizedek a tenth of all he had. You need not assume this is what I meant. You read too much into people's words.
---Rebecca_D on 4/4/07

"But I will tell you that if you do not tithe you could quite certainly go to Hell for it, that is not Cynthias law, this is what God says."

And where did God establish this law in the new covenant, in grace, through His Son Christ Jesus?
---Ryan_Z on 4/4/07

Well I would hate to find my self in hell one day, the Bible says shall a man Rob God?
No thief will be in Heaven, Do not be deceived. You can bash me until you are blue in the face, But I will tell you that if you do not tithe you could quite certainly go to Hell for it, that is not Cynthias law, this is what God says. Many are in Hades, FOR ROBBING GOD, DO NOT BE DECIEVED.
---Cynthia_1 on 4/4/07

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Ten percent of everything is exactly that, ten percent of everything. God gave you all of your health to work, God gave you the employer to hire you, God gave you breath to live, what part of everything would you propose to say it isn't from God?
---Meag5767 on 4/4/07

Sorry Rebecca, but you need to read the context in the previous verse 2 where is says Abraham gave tithes of all the slaughter of the kings. These were the spoils of war. This was of the flocks, herds.No money involved.
Melchisedek was king of Salem which was another name for Jerusalem as well as King of Peace.
By the way, there is two spellings of the name:
Melchisedek and Melchizedek .. both in the Bible.
---Chipper on 4/4/07

Here are some verses for tithing in the New Testament. Mt 23:23, Lk 11:42, 18:12, Heb 7:2-10. These verses here has nothing to do with tithing. Mt 5:20, 10:10, 11:11, Lk 10:7-8, Ro 2:22, 1 Cor 9:7-14. Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek Heb 7:1-21.
---Rebecca_D on 4/4/07

Matt 23:23 Jesus was speaking to the Jewish pharisees who were trying to keep the laws of Moses. Jesus says all through these verses, "WOE UNTO YOU" you blind pharisee!

Mt 10:10 Tithing is not even hinted at here.

Romans 2:22 Has NOTHING to do with tithing.

Luke 11:42 WOE again, the pharisees were tithing MINT, RUE, HERBS, not MONEY, they were overlooking the MORE IMPORTANT THINGS.

Matt 5:20 Has NOTHING to do with tithing.
---Chipper on 4/3/07

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Galatians 6:6 What does this have to do with tithing??? NOTHING.

1 Cor 9:9 Paul was pointing out that in "The Law of Moses" (which we are not under) God chastized the Israelites for muzzling the mouth of the oxen that treads the corn. Teaching that a workman is worthy of his hire, (to be taken care of). No tithing here either.

Luke 16:16 Has NOTHING to do with tithing.
---Chipper on 4/3/07

Luke 18:10 The proud and arrogant pharisee boasted in his tithing of ALL HE POSSESSED, which was not money. In the Mosaic law they tithed of the herds, flocks, grains and fruit of the field. IT WAS NEVER MONEY!

If you study what tithing was under the Mosaic Law, it was on THE INCREASE of their FLOCKS, HERDS, GRAINS, FRUITS of the field.

You have totally missed it on this one.
I will respond to Malachi 3 very soon, watch!
---Chipper on 4/3/07

Cynthia_1, those scriptures are examples of commandments in the New Covenant for Christians to provide 10% of their income to keep the lights on and pay utilities in a building that God does not live in? Not to mention provide salaries for paid staff and sponser trips to attract young teenagers into 'missionary work' in a tropical rainforest(Come on, call a spade a spade)? As a Christian you should give when lead to give, not because your told you have to! Tithing is not a teaching of Christianity.
---Ryan on 4/3/07

O.K Chipper, here goes it:
Mathew 23:23 Mt. 10:10 Rom. 2:22
Luke 11:42 Luke 10:7-8 Mal 3:8-10
Mt.5:20 Mt. 11:11 Gal 6;6
Luke 18:11-12 Luke 16:16 1 Cor. 9:7-14
---Cynthia_1 on 4/3/07

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Tithing is not taught anywhere in the New Covenant. In addition to this, tithing in the Old Covenant was only of the flocks, herds and produce and grains, so that there would be FOOD in the storehouse of God.
I ask anyone to show proof of tithing in the New Testament.
---Chipper on 3/29/07

The deep truths of God and the Bible must be searched for and dug out. They, for the most part, are not laying open in a field like rocks. You have to search and dig for them like "diamonds".
Remember "The Pearl of Great Price" that Jesus spoke of?
---Chipper on 3/29/07

Nate that was the best sermon in a nutshell I have ever heard. excellent!
---Cynthia_1 on 3/27/07

You are being symantical here. I think you know what I meant in that we do not offer bulls and goats, etc.
Yes, I am well aware that as Paul said, we die daily to our fleshly desires, etc. And Jesus said for us to deny ourselves.
Jesus took the place of bulls and goats, etc. when on the cross. He also took our place. He said, "it is finished". The final, once for all time sacrifice was made. He was the sacrificial lamb of God slain for the world.
---Chipper on 3/27/07

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do you want to be blessed GROSS or NET? there's your answer
---nate on 3/27/07

You give The Lord what your heart wishes to give and give willingly and with love..otherwise, if you grudgingly give, u might as well not give at all..the Bible says 10 percent of your increase of whatever, be it monetary, vegetables, etc. God never said most of your income is to be tithed.
---jana on 3/27/07

chipper, there are Two Testaments, and not one: the old B.C. which is abolished, and the New A.D. which is currently in force.
---Eloy on 3/26/07

Chipper: "we no longer do the sacrifices..." Allow me to correct you. We still DO sacrifices. Instead of sacrificing animals as in the OT, we sacrifice ourselves daily. The old laws were never done away with, but the new convenant puts on a new interpretation. And a more stricter one at that. The old law says that if you murder someone, it is a sin. Jesus now says that even if you think about it, it's a sin.
---Steveng on 3/26/07

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,chipper, again I say to you, the old law is abolished. The Old Law is the leaven of the Pharisees, which saves no one, and is the ministry of death. Please read II Corinthians 3:6-8,13-17.
---Eloy on 3/26/07

Gods TESTIMONY,(Ten Commandments), along with the rod of Aaron and the golden bowl of manna, were the only items in the Ark of the Covenant. Gods testimony, the Ten Commandments, were never done away with. Only the "rituals" of the law were done away with, hence, the sacrifices. Since Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb who was slain once for all time, we no longer do the sacrifices, but keep the law which is The Testimony.
---Chipper on 3/26/07

.chipper, 1- you misapplied what Jesus said, he indeed came and fulfilled the Law and Prophets which wrote about him, and cried from the cross, It is finished! what is finished? That what he came to do, abolish the Old, and bring in the New Law, to fulfill the Old Covenant and institute the NEW Covenant. 2- I do not "come up" with anything, but preach the truth.
---Eloy on 3/25/07

.chipper, "Think not that I came to undo the law or the Prophets: I came not to undo the law, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass, one mandate or one point will not fail from the law, until all happen." Matthew 5:17,18. Jesus said that you have heard from the Old Law, Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth: but I say to you a New Law, revenge not whom bad, but if anyone strike you on the right cheek, turn to whom your other." Matthew 5:38,39
---Eloy on 3/25/07

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.chipper, Jesus said you heard the Old Law, You will love your neighbor, and hate your enemy: but I say to you a New Law, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them hating you, and pray over them that shame you and persecute you. Mat.5:43-48. You cannot follow the Old Law of Moses, and also follow the New Law of Jesus being love and forgiveness. Taking "a life for a life" does not bring back the dead, but destroys 2 lives now rather than just one. Please read John 13:34,35.
---Eloy on 3/25/07

.steveng, you err greatly if you think it is ok to speak untruth and blaspheme the grace of Christ. Jesus did no such thing as you say, he did not reestablish the Old Laws, but instead he personally came down and gave us his New Law and his New Covenant of Redemption. If you think you can serve the Old Law and by doing this it will make you right with God, you are greatly deluded and will miss out on the unspeakable blessings imparted to all whom become born-again and partakers of the New Life.
---Eloy on 3/26/07

Can you please give us some examples of these "opposites" you mentioned.
I think the opposite of "thou shalt", is "thou shalt not", and vice versa. Where did you ever come up with that one?

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Are you sure you're reading the same Bible we are?
---Chipper on 3/25/07

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