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Prayer In Public Schools

Do you think prayer in public schools will return? Do you think in the future kids will get in trouble for praying in public schools?

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Madison: In all 3 of your choices the common denominator is PRAYER.Silent Prayer is a manifestation to your God your creator anyone can benifit from thisallegiance to Godwhois really ONE-There are no others, call him by what ever name you choose.
---Emcee on 3/24/08

Kids cannot get in trouble for praying in public school as long as they are not disrupting learning. There is no reason to have teacher led prayers as there are many unbelievers teaching in public schools. Would you want a Jewish prayer, or a Hindu prayer, or a Buddhist prayer?
---Madison1101 on 3/24/08

"The ACLU: Enemy of America and Christianity" by Rabbi Aryeh Spero documents how the ACLU shrieks at the slightest hint of Christian prayer, nativity scenes or menorahs in public. But they hypocritically ignored:

University of Michigan decided to funding foot-washers for Islamic students wishing to pray.

Byron Union school district CA decreed that its public schools should set aside days and assignments where all students choose a Muslim name & recite passages from the Koran.
---Ktisophilos on 7/27/07

The kids of today's generation are messed up? If you hear the kind of music,clothing they engage in,I would be embarrassed by it all.In Proverbs 19:16,We see the warning that "he who obeys instruction guards his soul,but he who is contemptuous of his ways will die".With all this Violence going on,wouldn't it be a Comfort to honor,give thanks to God!There is His Light,that we need to spread all over the Nations.
---rosem4839 on 5/13/07

Ashley-take over the world? Hindus, no way. Atheist/ too few of them, to most its a private issue, Muslems? Yes, many do.

christians majority? Define your terms. there are over a 1000, maybe 2000 protestant denominations in America, all claiming the 'other guy' is a cult, or in error. There are RCC, Jews, ans so many other faiths. I will stand people of ANT faith to support moral issues. Conside that morality is sometimes more important that theology.
---MikeM on 5/10/07

2-when people take God out of the lives of others, satan gains power and sin and iniquity flourishes. when a people become so evil that the holy Ghost cannot dwell in an area, it becomes ripe for destruction. the F5 tornado in Kansas was no accident. To me, it is a wake up call from God himself to tell people to shape up and repent. I am sure they thought it wouldn't happen to them either. People need to repent and stop condemning others, promoting hatred, contention and trying to argue everything.
---ashley on 5/9/07

2-I see many apologists here that profess to be christian yet they go out of their way to appease those who follow the darkness of satan. it would not be an issue if leftists would stop trying to take God out of everyone's lives. God created everything we have. We give thanks to Him. Many christians do not have the courage or convictions in their faith to stand up and be counted when it matters the most. christians are the majority here, not hindus, athiests, muslims etc that want world domination.
---ashley on 5/9/07

Ashley-As for me, I believe in something called 'free-agency,' that is each person has the freedom, in a pluralistic society to freely choose what to believe.

Ashley- I suspect you are a put-on and do not believe what you are posting, they are rhetorical and irrational posts, against everything but for nothing.
---MikeM on 5/9/07

Mormon Mike, anyone who believes in the book of mormon needs their head examined.
---Taylor on 5/9/07

who cares what people think that are against God in schools. when they come here, they know it is a christian country. English is the native language. If they do not want to conform to the majority, they are not forced to stay. They can return to their own countries. that is the problem today. the tail wags the dog and people do not want to offend anyone. keep believing that and the Americas will become a country where crime and atrocities against God are the norm and not the exception.
---ashley on 5/9/07

"I was asked by a few here to 'back up' some statements, so with objective science I did, those 'few' bailed, no suprise. It may, at this moment appear I am more against something than for, and I don't mean to appear a mysagonist. I take Thomas Jefferson's Maxim to heart, "If ones faith cannot stand the test of FREE INQUIRY, its finished." I believe in just that, free inquiry."
---Yucaipa on 5/9/07

Catherine-What do you propose happen to all the nonfundamentalist in our midst? In America we have pluralism-'freedom' of religion,not toleration, freedom. Read the constitution
---MikeM on 5/9/07

MikeM: "If you dont like the schools, home school, shield-protect-coddle your kids, or send them to private schools. Whats the fuss?"

I thought it would have been obvious to a libertarian: our taxes support the NEA/government schools regardless. Yet many of the strongest opponents of school vouchers send their own kids to the best public schools money can buy.
---Ktisophilos on 5/9/07

I shall tell you what the fuss is, my friend. The fuss is GOD owns those schools and all schools. Oh, as a matter of fact God owns this entire world. So, if His people or their children want to pray you had better let them, And all the heathens can get out. And bite the dust!
---catherine on 5/8/07

As a libertarisn I dislike the NEA. Who says kids cannot pray? A student led prayer is allowed as I understand. The constitution, as written by our unitarisn, deist, freemasonic founders is very clear on the issue, no type of prayer can be 'established.' If you dont like the schools, home school, shield-protect-coddle your kids, or send them to private schools. Whats the fuss?
---MikeM on 5/8/07

I learned long ago, "Dogma is a demagogues best friend." prayer in school is a camels nose in the tent, a foot in the door. Fundamentalist (not evangicals) secretly desire a theocracy, claiming a desire to turn American back to a Christian country that never was. One of those battle field is prayer in school.

To be fair, rabid left secularist are religious in their zeal, and just as dangerious-Oreilly calls them 'secular progressives" I call them socialist.
---MikeM on 5/8/07

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tracy3346, yes, peer pressure is a problem. And it's the reductio ad absurdum to the "my kids have to be in the public schools to witness to the non-Christian kids." I.e. who is witnessing to whom in the vast majority of cases?
---Ktisophilos on 5/7/07

Thanks K: Yeah, I'm quite outnumbered, heh heh! I have no complaints whatsoever though, God is SO GOOD!!! I'm looking forward to all those daughters-in-law. In addition to the 7, I have a stepson, who has 2 boys of his own, and finally a GIRL!! Yea! So, there is hope after all. lol

Anyway, the problem isn't just the NEA, but peer pressure as well, which exists even in Christian schools.
---tracy3346 on 5/5/07

Honestly, I do think that Madison makes a valid point. I believe that God is raising up people in the public schools who are making a huge difference; but people must have a strong foundation in the truth to be able to withstand with their faith intact in a predominantly Godless school system, like Daniel and the three Hebrew children in Babylon.
---tracy3346 on 5/5/07

Madison1101: (BTW, our granddaughter's name is Madison) God bless you for not giving up on the kids in the public schools. I once worked with a Christian who had been a school teacher, but abandoned the profession because of the politics. On the flip-side, a couple of the Christian teachers at our Jr. High School got together and started a weekly Bible study after school at a nearby park.
---tracy3346 on 5/5/07

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7 boys! You must feel outnumbered ;) All the best with homeschooling your youngest 4, and best wishes for the oldest.

Sad to say, with the anti-Christian NEA controlling the public schools, there will be many like your son. After all, the humanists have them for 6 hours per day, 5 days a week.
---Ktisophilos on 5/2/07

Hey, why not send your kids to Islamic schools? After all, someone needs to witness to the Muslim kids!
---Ktisophilos on 5/2/07

1) When my eldest was in elementary school he wanted to perform an upbeat Christian song (his choice) in a talent show, he was told that it wouldn't be allowed because some may be offended. I contacted the ACLJ, who sent me pamphlets, which basically explained how, by law, it is indeed allowed. I took one to the principal of the school, who in-turn showed it to the superintendent....(cont.)
---tracy3346 on 5/2/07

2) ...They both seemed unaware of the laws. Well, as it turned out, my son performed that Christian song!

However, after the subsequent years of being more influenced by friends at school than Christianity at home, he gradually withdrew from God, and his family, and became interested in more depressing secular music. This once happy child had become so severely depressed that for nearly 2 years, I feared that he might commit suicide.
---tracy3346 on 5/2/07

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3) Because of God's grace and mercy, through much prayer and counseling my son is doing better now. I can see The Lord drawing him back; and I trust that He will reverse the damage.
---tracy3346 on 5/2/07

Jerry: I totally agree with your post on 4/22.
There's a song by "Diamond Rio" I think you might like called "In God We Still Trust" you can find it on "YouTube"
Whenever Diamond Rio performs this song in concert they receive a standing ovation. However, the radio stations wont play it because it's not "politically correct." (Give me a break!!)
God bless!
Tracy, a.k.a. "Tbabe"
---tracy3346 on 5/2/07

Elder, Jerry, K, and Ryan Z,
We have 7 boys, all born within 8 years, and due to circumstances, I have felt too overwhelmed as it is to attempt to home school them. The 3 oldest are out of school now, but you have inspired me to pursue home schooling for the younger 4 from here on out; I'll be facing some physical and spiritual battles to accomplish this, so I'm asking: would you all be in prayer?
---tracy3346 on 5/2/07

Rebecca: I'll bet if a kid wore a Moslem T-shirt to one of your schools, that would be just fine.
---jerry6593 on 4/28/07

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Madison1101, I am not necessarily railing against sending children to public schools. My point was to equipt the children to handle the world better for a longer period of time before we throw them into the 'Lion's Den'. I apologize my point was unclear. Christian children can certainly produce good fruit in the secular setting, if they have been raised in the discipline of the Lord first.
---Ryan_Z on 4/27/07

Madison: that is the usual excuse. But there is nothing in the Bible telling parents to allow anti-theists to educate their kids, or why a system that ignores or is even hostile to God is a place for them. The Bible, not pragmatism, must be the guide for Christians.

Parents' duties are first to their own kids, not other people's kids (1 Tim. 5:8).
---Ktisophilos on 4/26/07

Many parents sending their kids to public schools are like generals who send completely untrained soldiers into battle against an powerful enemy (teachers have the authority).

Be honest, in which direction does the witnessing usually go? Do the kids from humanist homes take home Bible verses, or do the kids from church homes take home the dirty jokes? A Barna survey of teens from church homes showed that only 1 in 3 intended to continue in the church after they left home.
---Ktisophilos on 4/26/07

Madison, it is very good that you became a Christian through the public schools. There are also many more who became atheists going through public schools. This is one problem with using testimonies instead of Scripture.

Also, God can make good out of evil (cf. Joseph, Gen. 50:20), so your testimony doesn't prove that public schools were good in themselves. There are fine Christians conceived as a result of fornication or even rape, but this doesn't mean that the fornication or rape was good.
---Ktisophilos on 4/26/07

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Ryan2: Scripture says we are to be IN the world but not OF the world. Christian kids can go to public schools and not be "poisoned" by their association with unbelievers.

Also, there are many Christians teaching in the public schools. I am one of them and have worked with many throughout my career.
---Madison1101 on 4/26/07

Ryan, if all the Christians kept their kids out of public schools, I would not have become a Christian, because I didn't know any believers in my neighborhood and I met my friend at school who led me to the Lord back in the 70s. Same for my husband. Your thinking is specious.
---Madison1101 on 4/26/07

#1 Ktisophilos brings up a very good point, what association does light have with darkness. And the point about wisdom and knowledge coming from fear of the Lord is brilliant. All too often, usually for convenience, people cannot wait to send their children to school and they begin them at early ages such as 3.
---Ryan_Z on 4/26/07

#2 This is pretty disgusting considering that the Lord has given you the child to bring up in the ways of the Lord yet we are willing to hand our children over to a secular system that has no foundation in the WOrd of God.
---Ryan_Z on 4/26/07

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Rebecca: Keep up the good work with your son. I taught a junior high sunday school class and a student shared how she was told she could not wear a Christian shirt at our high school. Her father was the school board president at the time, and I told him about it. He had no clue his daughter had been told that. He upheld her right to wear the shirt.
---madison1101 on 4/26/07

Madison: My son goes to public school. He is in the 2nd grade. He wears t-shirts that says things along with Jesus. So far no one has said anything to me or to him. Many people feel as though Christ is not worth fighting for, so they don't. But for me and My house we will serve the Lord. I told the teachers straight up, how we believe, and if my son wants to wear something that has to do with Jesus, God or what he believes in, he will. I don't know if their afraid of me or the God I serve.
---Rebecca_D on 4/26/07

Rebecca: It doesn't matter what the rest of the county thinks. It matters what the Constitution guarantees, and the kids should fight for their right to carry their Bible and wear their Christian shirts. The judges would have to eventually uphold the Constitution, because that is what they are sworn to do in their jobs.
---Madison1101 on 4/25/07

Kt: I disagree. I teach in the public schools, and if all the Christians left, there would be no light to shine God's love and share Christ.
---Madison1101 on 4/25/07

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Madison and Rebecca: even better, all the Christian parents should withdraw their kids from the humanist-run schools. Even if they were not so overtly bigoted against kids bringing Bibles, their curriculum does NOT begin with fear of the Lord, the beginning of wisdom and knowledge.
---Ktisophilos on 4/25/07

Madison: it wouldn't do any good. Half the county are sinners. Claim to be Christians but their actions says otherwise.
---Rebecca_D on 4/25/07

God out guns in, God out drugs in, God out. Is that the way America wants it? Is it? fine, God shall oblige.
---catherine on 4/25/07

Rebecca: If that is true, then those students need to see a lawyer because their rights are being violated.
---Madison1101 on 4/25/07

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Madison; at the public Jr high and High schools in my county. The students aren't alowed to carry a bible to school or have any type of saying on their shirt that has to do with their religion. People complained that it offended their beliefs. The same with anything that has to do with Satan, demons, etc. I can understand the Satan part, but something about God, I do not understand.
---Rebecca_D on 4/24/07

If people don't pray at home, then they won't pray anywhere else. Prayer, praising the Lord starts at home. A person cannot or at least shouldn't praise God and worship him in a public place and do none of those things at home. We can pray anywhere we want. We don't have to be loud. The kids can pray in their mind while in class, lunchroom, etc.
---Rebecca_D on 4/24/07

Tina: Kids are allowed to carry their Bibles to school. Why would you think otherwise?
---Madison1101 on 4/24/07

I think that prayer will not be back in public schools because there are so many peoople in this generation that doesn't have a religion and if they do have one it had nothing to do with the bible. no, i think kids should be able to carry their bibles to school because it is no harm to other kids.
---tina on 4/24/07

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Prayer is the essence of our being.To deny the teaching of the importance to our off spring at an early age is shattered by the self Hyprocitical people who sit & make ordinances,about Prayers in School.In separate schools in my days it started & ended with Prayer to acknowledge that all Knowledge comes from GOD,without whom we are powerless.The less we pray the more the opposition -SATAN-gains strength.IMHO.
---Emcee on 4/22/07

Ktiso, it's pleasant to see some fresh bloggers around here. Day old KrispieCremes are not that tasty either. You have to get them while they're warm from the drive-thru.
---KrispieCremopolis on 4/22/07

I agree with Elder. The Constitution not only prohibits the establishment of government sanctioned religion, but it also states that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof. While the establishment clause is rigorously enforced, the prohibition clause is ignored. Our schools more closely follow the atheist agenda of Karl Marx than that intended by our founders. And what is the result of this anti-God agenda? Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc.
---jerry6593 on 4/22/07

Ktisophilos>>>You certainly raised some excellent points. People are not going to get away with not allowing God's people to speak. No sir. Let the guns into the schools shooting everybody up, but by all means do away with prayers and the Ten Commandments. If people insist on being Stupid.
---catherine on 4/22/07

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I certainly hope so. I can only speak for SA. I don't think praying will return in public shools in SA, as children in SA are daily forced to learn religions of other cultures. They even right tests on these other religions and have no choice in the matter as it was a government decision.
---Junia on 4/22/07

Never mind "separation of church and state". Try separation of *school* and state. Why should Christians send their kids to increasingly anti-Christian schools that have low academic standards. What would Moses have thought of Israelite parents sending their kids to Canaanite schools?

Just remember Brittany McComb, who wanted to thank Christ in her valedictory address and the microphone was turned off by bigoted school admins, although the audience shouted "let her speak!"
---Ktisophilos on 4/21/07

No and Yes-- To your questions. People are going to get worse [Unbelievers] that is.
---catherine on 4/5/07

Jana; The law of the land is the constitution, a secular document, not the Bible. today there are just as many left wing secular fanatics as there are right wing religious fanatics, I dispise both. Both have evil agendas. prayer is a personal matter, and individual prayer should never be tampered with. Also, no sectarian prayer should be forced in school.
---MikeM on 4/5/07

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The Constitution does not nor has it ever denied the use of prayer in school. That is misunderstood.
The Constitution also does not REQUIRE anyone to participate in any religious service of any kind anywhere.
Freedom of Religion is not freedom from religion.
Congress shall make no laws concerning religion or the free exercise there of. But, yet it did......
---Elder on 4/5/07

I dont ever think prayers will be allowed back in schools is sad but remember, we are in the last days and all these things will be done away just before the coming of Christ..we need to memorise the Bible 4this 2 will b done away.Yes, kids will b in trouble 4praying in public in those days.
---jana on 4/5/07

"A women I don't know the name but complained"-must be Madeline Murray O'Hair, the dogmatic atheist appealed her case to the Supreme Court in 1963. I know of no law against prayer in school, any student can pray. There should be no 'organized prayer.' The constitution, 'establishment clause' is clear on the matter.
---MikeM on 4/5/07

Rebecca: Clinton did not have the power to make that ruling by himself. He would have had to veto a bill of Congress in order for it to happen. Then, it would have been challenged on its Constitutionality by the ACLU, and it is doubtful it would have passed anyway. So, more than likely, he was just sparing everybody from the inevitable.
---Madison1101 on 4/4/07

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Rebecca2: From studying Clinton's speeches on the subject, he was not in favor of compulsory prayer in schools, but voluntary prayer in schools, which is legal. He was opposed to the compulsory prayers, as was done prior to the Madeline Murray O'Hair ruling in 1963.

Try researching the issue before you make blatant statements that lead people to believe error.
---Madison1101 on 4/4/07

Rebecca3: Basically, Clinton did not take prayer out of the schools, as you claim he did. It was already out of the schools, and had been since 1963. He upheld the law, and in fact made sure that there would be no interference with kids praying voluntarily. He just upheld the Supreme Court ruling that there be no compulsory prayer in schools.
---Madison1101 on 4/4/07

When Clinton was president. A women I don't know the name but complained that she didn't want her children exposed to such prayer of Christians because it is of different faith. So she cried around until she got her way. This all happened when Clinton was president.
---Rebecca_D on 4/4/07

Rebecca: What president and what woman? I only know of Madeline Murray O'Hair, and she got the Supreme Court to enforce the Constitution in 1963, during Kennedy's administration.
---Madison1101 on 4/4/07

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Whose prayer? What Prayer? A hindu, shinto, Buddhist or Islamic praer? If you have organized prayer, then what type of prayer?
---MikeM on 4/4/07

Madison; I heard the president himself, saying how awful his decision was for allowing one woman to take prayers out of school. But yet he done nothing about it, and still isnt.
---Rebecca_D on 4/4/07

I beleive the time is now upon us when the power of God will be overtaking entire schools, the fear of a Holy God will make them be praying for there lives, we are living in serious days, A peewee herman mentality is now being destroyed kids will be doing things by the power of the Holy Spirit, that will make peoples eyes pop, out, wait and see whats going to start happening in the public schools.
---Cynthia_1 on 4/4/07

Rebecca: NO president took prayer out of the public schools. It was the Supreme Court that did that. You really need to learn history.
---Madison1101 on 4/3/07

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As long as there are math tests and pop quizzes, there will be prayer in schools.

If you think there should be devotions in the classroom led by the teachers or students, consider these scenarios:

1. Ibriham Salih begins with prostrations towards Mecca "In the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate" and reading from the Koran.
---Jack on 4/3/07

Part 2:

2. Indira Patil burns incense to Vishnu and reads from the Upanishads or Bhagavad Ghita.

3. Stardancer (whose Wiccan parents rejected surnames as being patriarchal) has the class sing, "We all come from the Goddess."

THIS is what "prayer in public schools" would mean. I hope you are not so naive you think all such prayers would be Evangelical, or even Christian ones.
---Jack on 4/3/07

NO. because the same president that took them out is the same one that says pray for the children. It doesn't do a bit of good to have prayer in public schools if there is no praying going on at home. It starts at home. If a child is a christian, they can still talk and pray to God. Law or no law.
---Rebecca_D on 4/3/07

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