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Fate Of Dead Babies

Before the coming of Christ did all babies, Jewish and Gentile, go to heaven if they died in the womb, infancy or as a very young children?

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 ---Ryan_Z on 4/6/07
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Children under the age of accountability go to heaven (they are saved). Reference: Matthew 18:1-10, 19:14. Age of accountability is unknown and may differ from person to person (think about cases of mental retardation, etc.)

We must strive to teach our children well, for one day they will be accountable for what they know. Our God is a fair and just God and will not eternally sentence anyone to hell indiscriminately.

---Jane on 5/5/07

mcm, only if they reach the scripturaly unprovable age of accountability that is supposedly different for everyone.
---Ryan_Z on 5/4/07

Hey guys, Ok lets say babies go to heaven. What about young kids that are in islam. They are being taught hatred and everything that God objects. Do these little kids that are not christians and being taught to hate everything christian goes to heaven when or if they die as kids?
---mcm on 5/4/07

Sorry, but Ashley is this article for shows many scriptures pointing to the innocence of little babies who have not come to an age to chooce to accept or reject Christ or not....don;t limit God's provision for the innocent or what He is capable of doing. There are many things He will do that our finite minds cannot comprehend. Just because you cannot grasp it on this earth, doesn't mean it is not so.
---kim on 5/3/07

Ashley; Glossing over the scriptures is not getting the "meat" of the word. Yes Jesus preached (not taught) to the spirits in prison (tartarus) but Peter tells you that it was "in the days of Noah" not at His Crucifixion! I never deny that He said to the thief he would be in paradise ,but that's future, when Eden is restored at the creating of the new heavens and new earth! You have the right heart,it's just leading you in the wrong direction.Hint-dont follow the crowd.
---1st_cliff on 4/16/07

Ashley: Have you read the bible all the through from beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation? I mean not just read it, but meditate on parts you don't understand much like the question Job asked God? Without concordances, dictionaries, novels, and other Christians reference books? Just you, the Bible and the Holy Spirit? But for starters...
---Steveng on 4/16/07

Ashley: "From my understanding of the bible, children are innocent in Christ and He blessed them."

We are born having a sinful nature. If you allow a baby to grow without teaching it right from wrong, the baby will grow into a rebel. The baby grows not knowing it is wrong to murder, or lie, or steal. Read up on "feral children" and you'll understand. This is why God created parents.
---Steveng on 4/16/07

it is obvious to me cliff that you are going to keep your eyes closed to what is written in the bible and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ in your life. that is your decision and you will pay the price. How you can deny Jesus taught the spirits in prison and the thief would join Him in paradise as quoted by Jesus Christ himself defies logic. Dream on in your own little fantasyland. you might learn something if you open your eyes and actually read the bible.
---ashley on 4/16/07

#1 ashley, Romans teaches that, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I understand the redemptive work of The Christ on the Cross. What I fail to see is how that redemptive work applies to all babies for all time worldwide. You said it yourself that to be saved one must repent. Where in the WOrd of God do we learn that we are all conceived and born in repentence of sin?
---Ryan_Z on 4/16/07

#2 ashley, Where in the Holy Scrpitures does the Father make a decision on behalf of every human baby to cover them in the blood of His Holy Lamb? Where in the Bible do you get the teaching that man is no longer born in and of the flesh; of which the spirit of God can not strive? Where in the scriptures do we see that the wickedness of man is absent at the conception and birth of man?
---Ryan_Z on 4/16/07

Ashley; It's only in mythology that people live on in Shangila,happy hunting grounds,paradise etc. after they die. Nowhere in your bible does it say that death is separation from God! Death is the absence of life! If you step on a bug or swat a fly,they lay there motionless,did they go somewhere? From your own bible Eccl.319 man's fate is like that of the one dies so dies the other,all have the same breath,man has no advantage over the animals.cont2
---1st_cliff on 4/16/07

Ashley #2 The difference between animals and man is that humans were promised a resurrection, animals were not!
---1st_cliff on 4/16/07

Ryan, perhaps we can answer your question if you explain why you believe everyone is evil at birth. From my understanding of the bible, children are innocent in Christ and He blessed them. He also said, Suffer little children to come unto me for theirs is the kingdom of God. Jesus was crucified. He taught through Him all sins were cleansed through repentence. He was then resurrected breaking the bonds of spiritual death introduced through Adam. To sin, you choose evil over good.
---ashley on 4/16/07

2-If you are basing your views on the old testament scriptures, you are denying the new covenant introduced into the world through Jesus Christ. He fulfilled the laws and did not come to destroy them. He was the ultimate sacrifice. Men would no longer have to offer sacrifices of lambs. He also taught that He was the way, the truth and the light. Prophecy in the O.T. was fulfilled through Him. It is through faith and obedience to His teachings that we return to His kingdom.
---ashley on 4/16/07

cliff, what part of my reply was mythology. Everything I wrote in my blog is from the bible. If you choose to ignor it or reject it, that is your choice. you are the one who will be held accountable for denying the truths of Jesus Christ. Not me at judgment day. I just stated facts as found in the KJV of the bible.
---ashley on 4/16/07

Ashley; Yes I get it. So long as you keep one foot in Christianity and the other in mythology your answers are going to come out like that!
---1st_cliff on 4/16/07

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D. Browne

God bless. To answer your question, NO im not in a pagan coven group and I hang out praying and studying to know the truths of God, despite the unpopularity it gives me with men. Can I ask you, what pagan coven group do you hang out with? God bless
---Billy on 4/15/07

Steve, I want you to show me from the bible where your dillusions come from in your blog. From what I have read, those coming forth in the second resurrection are those who are liers, scorcerers, adulterers, false prophets, scammers, and those who do not accept the true gospel and deny Jesus is the Christ. Also those that say they belong to the church of Peter, John the baptist, men forming churches for profit, Enoch, Isaiah etc, so they can follow the evil false teachings of men.
---ashley on 4/15/07

Pharisee, **SON you really haven't grown up in faith at all since you've been here...**

As I recall I am not the name caller. I am asking people to prove that the doctrine they preach, 'All babies go to heaven.' is scriptural. I see no scriptural evidence for the teaching. What I do see scripture teaching is that man is evil, his heart is evil and his flesh is evil; but somehow babies are innocent of their inherited evil, how?
---Ryan_Z on 4/15/07

I would say that Steveng's response is scripturaly the most accurate.
---Ryan_Z on 4/15/07

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Blessed are the Christians who are resurrected at the first resurrection right after the so-called tribulation period for they shall not experience the second death. All other people (the wicked, the unbelievers, the weak Christians, the "good" people, the babies) shall be raised at the second resurrection at the end of the millinium and will be judged by God when He opens the Book of Life. God is a God of Love and Justice.
---Steveng on 4/15/07

ashley, where in scripture does the blood of Christ get applied to all babies worldwide for all time?
---Ryan_Z on 4/14/07

It really does, but you hang on to cut and pasted ideas twisted by scriptures to support your ideas, that aren't even given by God, but by a man called tony warren.

SON you really haven't grown up in faith at all since you've been here, and the reason for that is that you haven't fully understood God's plan for redemption before you decided to start preaching.
---Pharisee on 4/15/07

"Where does the bible say you need to know the difference between right and wrong before you can sin?"

Neither does it say you can, you write it into truth by implication, and set self up as judge, but need to repent of this evil vefore your heart is peirced and calloused.
2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest: to whom the mist of darkness is reserved forever.
---Pride_Stinks on 4/15/07

RYAN, you build up this doctrine by thinking about it, it doesn't change fundamental flaws in your calculations.

That no one was born on their own, that GOD makes babies, and if people didn't even choose to be born fallen how can the "condemnation" (SEE JOHN 3:19) apply, or how can they now be responsible for being born in fallen condition?

A God that judges rightly calls every man according to his deeds, and if the deed was being born will God now be a sinner? baby didn't do it.
---Pharisee on 4/15/07

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Where in the world have you been hanging out, Billy. Are you in a pagan coven group?
---D.Browne on 4/15/07

cliff, what in the world are you talking about. mortal death exists. I am talking about a spiritual death or separation from God. that is what happened in Adams case. He had walked and talked with God every day. When he broke the law, he was cast out. He no longer walked with God. The resurrection enables us to live in God's kingdom if we are worthy. Thus breaking the bonds of death for both our spirit and immortal body. Do you get it now.
---ashley on 4/15/07

Pro 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Pro 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

I believe this explanes whats in the heart of a child. Those of you that have children, try not to disiplan your child and see what happens. Most peoples children that ive met have little terrors that need a good spanken, God bless.
---Billy on 4/15/07

Ashley; Using your rational that Jesus broke the bonds of death (at that time) then no one would have died from 33AD to the present!
---1st_cliff on 4/15/07

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The lake of fire isnt literal fire and most definitely isnt forever. The fire purifies the soul and makes it anew, fit to enter His kingdom. God will show mercy not to just babies, but all His creation, God bless
---Billy on 4/14/07

ashley, where in scripture does the blood of Christ get applied to all babies worldwide for all time?
---Ryan_Z on 4/14/07

1/ ashley

Jesus spoke in parables and used children as a way to bring about a spiritual truth. Heres another example.

Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
---Billy on 4/14/07

2/ ashley

Was Jesus saying that this child was converted? I dont think so, only that we need to become as a little child in faith and humility. His whole parable was addressed to those that would be converted. The little child was used to make his point. Same for Mat 19:14.

Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

God bless
---Billy on 4/14/07

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Ryan, why produce scriptures to back up what I say. you will not believe them anyways. Others have shown you truth and you ignored it. What is sin. It is disobedience to God's commandments and teachings. Show me one baby that plots to rob a bank, kill someone, swears, covets things belonging to others. you keep saying you were born in sin. That is wrong. Why do you keep ignoring the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Did He not pay for everyone's sins, so we could live with Him again if we repent.
---ashley on 4/14/07

2- Jesus said: "Suffer little children to come unto me for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." He blessed them, didn't call them unto repentence. Adams only sin was he introduced death into the world. Jesus was resurrected, breaking the bonds of death. Jesus said. "I am the resurrection and the life." He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentence. Babies are alive in Christ, not dead. You can only use the new covenant when it comes to children. Not the old covenant.
---ashley on 4/14/07

But how can I love a God that sends babies to burn in hell? Please help me with this as I am having a hard time understanding how God would do such a thing.
---sue on 4/14/07

#1 ashley, **Little children do not know the difference between right and wrong and cannot sin.**

You continue to make these claims and provide no scripturtal support. Where does the bible say you need to know the difference between right and wrong before you can sin? It is very difficult to follow your reasoning when scripture says, "All have sinned..." and, "In sin my mother conceived me and I was brought forth in iniquity."
---Ryan_Z on 4/13/07

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#2 ashley, If you would please provide scripture that supports your thesis we can have a discussion. If you continue to provide opinion based on human logic we have nothing to discuss.
---Ryan_Z on 4/13/07

Oh the foolishness of men. If the dead remain in the grave and turn to dust, why is paradise and the spirit prison mentioned? Jesus himself taught the souls in prison. Did Jesus not tell the thief he would be with him in paradise? If you want to remain dead, Jesus would not have come to break the bonds of death through His resurrection, making it possible for all of us to live. Little children do not know the difference between right and wrong and cannot sin. Sin is disobeying God's laws.
---ashley on 4/13/07

Pharisee; Consider that dead people are always referred to as "the dead" not dead bodies! Look up your concordance and see that this is so. References to "dead souls are too numerous to cite here. One of the best to look up in Strong's concordance is Num.31.28.That says one "soul"(nephesh) in 500 of BOTH men AND animals. Animals are also "souls".(nephesh)Gen.1.21,24.)Translated "creature"
---1st_cliff on 4/13/07

Pharisee; "what's in the grave that hears Him?" answer- The dead! When you're living you are a "living soul",when you are dead you are a "dead soul" hmmmm too complicated?
---1st_cliff on 4/13/07

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#1 Pharisee, Paul is very specific that we do not sow a body that is to be resurrected:

1Cr 15:36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;
1Cr 15:37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1Cr 15:38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.
---Ryan_Z on 4/13/07

#2 Pharisee, So there must be something else in the grave that hears the call, because the corruted body has turned to dust and we get a new body. SO I ask you what is it that hears the call?
---Ryan_Z on 4/13/07

"is not the body that is resurrected"

for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, John 5:28

What's in the grave that hears then?
---Pharisee on 4/12/07

#1 Pharisee, I have been in much prayer over this topic for a long period of time. I asked God on many occasions why He continualy has me discussing this topic (This is not the only place that I have discussions) and through prayer God has answered my question. The answer is this: If all babies go to heaven becasue of their innocence then what need is there for a savior if all of humanity is born innocent?
---Ryan_Z on 4/12/07

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#2 Pharisee, If babies are innocent and sinless, as some will proclaim, then we are saying that all humanity is conceived and born as equals to the only begotten Son of God. If we say that God decides, on behalf of all children, to cover them with the blood of Christ we have a problem because it does not say that God makes this decision for anyone and it would make God a repector of baby persons.
---Ryan_Z on 4/12/07

#3 Pharisee, And, ultimately, at the core of the false doctrine, 'All babies go to heaven,' is the denial of the human condition. There is no scripture to support that God perceives all human babies born innocent and worthy of heaven and automaticlly covered by the blood of Christ. You say you have a full argument against what I say but in every discussion I have with you, you bail-out and your arguments are rooted in human emotionalism, not scripture.
---Ryan_Z on 4/12/07

#1 doug7835, there are two problems with your theory of the words of David in II Samuel:

1) 1Ki 2:10 Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.
2) Act 2:34 "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
---Ryan_Z on 4/12/07

#2 doug, How can you say that David meant he would see his son in heaven when Acts teaches that David is not in heaven? And in I Kings it says' "David slept with his fathers." So how do you know that David did not mean he would go to the be asleep with his son in the grave but his son would not come back to life?
---Ryan_Z on 4/12/07

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Ashley; If scripture is the only thing that counts then you better read the "whole" conversation to the thief!He did not say "today you will be with me in paradise".Read the whole sentence without punctuation (the way it was written)Your whole belief system hangs on a missplaced 14th century comma!
---1st_cliff on 4/12/07

Saying this (babies in hell) isn't a debatable matter is like saying you're the judge and lawgiver and will with his magestic knowledge sort all things.

What I am telling you Ryan for the last and final time is that pressing this doctrine is not wise, nor does it have any benefit.

How could you think anything about God isn't perfect- his ability to save? I'd love to tell you your song and dance is believable, but even if I didn't have a full argument against it (I do) I would reject it.
---Pharisee on 4/12/07

babies that die go to heaven they have no knowledge of right and wrong.
2 Samuel 12:19 (King James Version) But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the CHILD IS DEAD? And they said, He is DEAD.
---doug7835 on 4/12/07

2 Samuel 12:23 (King James Version) But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall GO TO HIM, but he shall not return to me. David lost his son. But he said he will go to him. his baby is in heaven. flesh and blood cannot return but the soul of that baby goes back to God.
---doug7835 on 4/12/07

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Only GOD Has The ANSWERS And ONLY He KNOWS WHO WILL MAKE IT. why? Even JESUS does not KNOW WHO'S Names Are WRITTEN In The Lambs Book OF LIFE. Thats not wisdom it's taking a look at Revelation and worrying about your own names being there Never Mind Babies!
---Carla5754 on 4/12/07

Many people say the dead are just that, dead. That contradicts the N.T.and teachings of Jesus Christ. He said clearly the righteous that repented of their sins would rest from their labors and the wicked would be taught in the spirit prison so everyone can be judged according to what they did in life. Jesus told the thief, today you will be with me in paradise, not a hole in the ground rotting. Get your facts straight and then write here. Opinions mean nothing. The scriptures are all that count.
---ashley on 4/11/07

#1 My friends, I would love to believe that all babies go to heaven, I have one little hang-up with this belief; it's not in the bible. I would love to believe that babies are innocent, I can't get there becasue the word of God says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I would love to believe that babies are sinless, I can't go there because the word of God says that we are conceived in sin and brought forth in iniquity.
---Ryan_Z on 4/11/07

#2 My friends, I would love to believe that God makes the decision, on behalf of children, to cover them with the blood of His only begotten Son, there is again, the same problem that I can not find this teaching supported in the word of God. So how do you get to the point where you believe all babies go to heaven when not one scripture supports this concept? Why do you believe a doctrine that is not supported in scripture and only has root in human emotionalism?
---Ryan_Z on 4/11/07

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# 3 My friends, Why do you not believe that babies are children of wrath by nature? In order to believe as you do I would have to exclude a whole volume of scripture that proves you wrong and I am not willing to tell God that His inspired word is wrong.
---Ryan_Z on 4/11/07

Catherine; You have a whole lot of zeal but a little shy on knowledge!1st. Hell (sheol and hades ) is not the bad place, Go to your local cemetaty and see the number of people lying there in (sheol-hades) the common resting place of the departed! It says R.I.P. and that's exactly what they're doing,awaiting a resurrection.(even some babies) Gehenna is the firey hell that Jesus warned about symbolizing complete destruction! (of the wicked)
---1st_cliff on 4/11/07

ashley, ** babies have no sin.**

With this single statement you have elevated all humanity to be conceived and born as equals to The Christ; do you realize what you have stated?
---Ryan_Z on 4/11/07

I do not believe that Babies go to hell, neither small children. God is a merciful God.
---Junia on 4/11/07

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Part One>>I got something I want to ask all of you people. What are the rotten deeds that babies will be doing in their mothers womb that will send them to Hell? And very small children, what kind of rotten deeds will they be doing that is going to send them to Hell. >>>God is a Righteous Judge He will judge people accordance with their deeds, not on the basis of their knowledge or ethnic background.
---catherine on 4/11/07

Part two>>More about babies and small children going to Hell.>>>Jesus loves babies and children. "They begged He would touch them, but He did more. He took them in His arms. He shall gather the lambs in His arms, and carry them in His bosom. [Mark 10:13-16]. Yes, Jesus has always loved babies and little children and they each will go to Heaven. AMEN, AMEN.
---catherine on 4/11/07

Ryan, you still don't get it. Jesus taught the souls in the spirit prison so they could be judged according to men in the flesh that heard His teachings. God is no respecter of persons. EVERYONE will hear the gospel and held accountable for their actions, thoughts, deeds and lives. judged according to our knowledge. what knowledge do babies have of right and wrong. that is why Jesus Christ suffered for all sins. repentence is required for sin. babies have no sin. Jesus said, the kingdom of God is theirs.
---ashley on 4/10/07

Pharisee, is the form of GOd's fallen creation unacceptable to Him? And is the condition within the fallen form also unacceptable to the Creator? If the form was acceptable then He would resurrect the body, but as scripture states it is not the body that is resurrected, so there must be something wrong with the form and the condition within the fallen form.
---Ryan_Z on 4/10/07

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The form of God's creation is not unaccepable to him, but rather it's condition within the form- else why the resurrection?

The condition (a process) is what we call knowledge and everyone is born to it; recording things we don't remember, ever think of why? I'm sure God knows the reason.

Ecc 5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
---Pharisee on 4/10/07

#1 tommy3007 David said, "I will go to him..." David did not say, "I will see him." Your statement is pure conjecture. David did not say, under the inspiration of the Holy SPirit,that he would see his child in Paradise.
---Ryan_Z on 4/9/07

#2 tommy3007, An honest look at scripture reveals this:

I Kings 2:10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

How do ou not know that David meant he would go to the grave just as his son? The Jewish understanding of death was that of sleep, possibly David meant 'I will go to sleep with him in the grave.'
---Ryan on 4/9/07

#1 ashley, Ignorance is innocence? Let me follow this line of thinking. If a person never hears the Law of God than he is innocent of any sin he commits becasue he is ignorant of God's Law? Or all of mankind from Adam to Mt. Sinai is innocent because they were ignorant to GOd's law?
---Ryan_Z on 4/9/07

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#2 ashley, No, I am not Jewish, the Mods nixed part of my response. HOwever, are you saying the judgment of Adam is nul and void, or that Romans and Ephesians are a part of the old covenant? Are you suggesting that God's claims of the wickedness of man's heart in Genesis no longer pertain to humanity, or that the Psalmists words are no longer true?
---Ryan_Z on 4/9/07

Tommy 3007; You make the same mistake as the other fundamentalists make ,that when you die your not really dead! David said he could go where his son was (sheol, common grave of mankind) but the son could not come to him (back to life at that time ) because he was dead!
---1st_cliff on 4/9/07

It appears you are Jewish eh Ryan. You do not believe in Jesus Christ. You are quoting the old testament or old covenant. Jesus Christ is the new covenant. He took upon Himself the sins of the world and broke the bonds of death, meaning everyone will be resurrected. To sin, you have to break God's commandments. What knowledge do infants have. Have you heard a baby say I can't steal, it is wrong. Did Jesus not say "You cannot sin in ignorance?"
---ashley on 4/9/07

RyanZ, If you would read the passage, 2Samuel 12, you would see what relevance there is. David wrote, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that he would see this son again, after death, indicating that the child went to paradise, since David is called the man after God's own heart.
---tommy3007 on 4/9/07

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#1 MikeM, you have a problem with people preconsinging babies to hell, yet you have no hang-ups with people preconsigning all babies to heaven and you can not see the hypocrisy of this position? YOu want proof that all babies do not go to heaven here you go:

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
(Romans 3:23 NASB)
---Ryan_Z on 4/9/07

#2 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned
(Romans 5:12 NASB)

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.
(Psalm 51:5 NASB)

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
(Ephesians 2:3 NASB)
---Ryan_Z on 4/9/07

#3 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(Genesis 6:5 NASB)

The Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of mans heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.
(Genesis 8:21 NASB)
---Ryan_Z on 4/9/07

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