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Religion In Public Schools

Why do you think religion should be in public schools?

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 ---kr on 5/12/07
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Frances, Republic is a pagan concept, from Athens Greece, 500BC Perecles, a pagan coined the term. our founders were deists and freemasons.

"Royality is professional indolence, unfit even as manure for my garden" -Thomas Jefferson.

Frances, And then there was Cromwell...
---MikeM on 3/6/08

Why not forget religion in public schools, and tell Satan, "to come on in, your welcome"? Listen, you either have God in public schools or you MUST have Satan in the public schools. And We can take our pick. The decision that we make can bring about LIFE OR DDEEAATTHHHHHHH! DEATH!
---catherine on 3/5/08

Dan the Bible teaches a round earth, hanging in space, upon nothing. People may have believed in a flat earth but not for Biblical reasons.
---Warwick on 3/5/08

MikeM, who would you put in the place of 'god' or God? We have to have someone at the top. What would be the qualifications for becoming a member of the ruling elite, if not bloodline and money? Perhaps you would prefer jumped up nobodies who have a grudge against anyone brought up better than themsleves. That would count out all educated people and all Christians. Gulag Archepeligo here we come...
---frances008 on 3/4/08

So MikeM, you would prefer pagans to rule over Christians, and I am certain you shall have it. Even in Communism, someone is ruling over someone else. I prefer Kings and Queens, or godly rich people to pagans who are motivated by greed and jealously, traits which the governments of UK/USA depend on to get voted in.
---frances008 on 3/4/08

MikeM, I would prefer anything to democracy, which comes down to Mob Rule. The alternative is a Sovereignity or Republic that protects minorities from the majority. Democracies are completely open to attack by propaganda and other dumbing down methods. The UK was built on Christianity and Anne Boleyn brought it out of the Dark Ages via the Bible.
---frances008 on 3/4/08

J nonymouse::Agree childrens Religious education is the Parents responsibility BUT I am talking about CHRISTIANITY.If the flavour of Christianity is inculcated into the aroma of the school surrounding the FLAVOUR of THE christian teaching is enhanced Like a stew with the different vegetables and spices.Taste and see the goodness of the lord!I say this because RCC and our educational principles are already imbibed in our homes children and their lives those who join our RC schools benifit from the aroma.
---Emcee on 3/4/08

#1) MikeM, The British Army ADMITTED that they put out a lot of propaganda against Washington during the war to undermine his leadership (questioning his faith, the alleged affair with Sally Fairfax, etc). There are mulititudes of examples of Washington's Christian faith throughout his own writings (cont)
---Greyrider on 3/4/08

#2) "Direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb, and purge my heart by thy Holy Spirit,"

"But daily frame me more and more into the likeness of thy son Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life."

from Washington's prayer journal that HE wrote
---Greyrider on 3/4/08

Frances-"I think the government should go back to being under the authority of the Bible" When was the US Goverment ever under the Bible???? If you want a theocracy, go to Iran or any country in the middle east. There have been many Bible based theocracies in history, ALL were failures, unless you prefer a dictatership.

I prefer our pagan system, known as a ' democratic republic.'
---MikeM on 3/4/08

The only examples we have of governments being under the authority of the Bible, have been disastorious. Rampant humanism, persecution, murder, adultry, incest, etc. I like the fact that we were founded (US) under humanism, accepting the Bible individually, allowing minorities their interpretation as long as it does not endanger basic safety.
---dan on 3/4/08

People should be allowed to be who they really are where ever they go. However (and this goes out to parents) it is not the government's responsibility to teach you're children the Bible. It is YOUR responsibility. If we throw open the doors to teaching religion in schools, you're going to have Satanists, Buhdists, Muslims, Mormons, Benny Hinnites, all lobbying to push their own brand of religion in public school. I'd rather it be neutral (not atheist) and leave me to teach my own children at home.
---j._nonymous on 3/4/08

Doesn't answer the question, I'm doubting it, just want the proof.

It wasn't that long ago that everyone knew the earth was flat, and that the sun revolved around it. Knowledge leads to understanding.
---dan on 3/4/08

I think the government should go back to being under the authority of the Bible. Then schools should teach World Religions and Faiths, Morals, and Ethics. They should learn the history of Christianity. They should not have religion lessons, that is for the family to do at home.
---frances008 on 3/3/08

Greyrider, hope this clears this up, 'Six Historic Americans,'John Remsberg, p. 103). August 15, 1835, "In regard to the subject of your inquiry, truth requires me to say that Gen. Washington never received the communion in the churches of which I am the parochial minister. Mrs. Washington was an habitual communicant.... I have been written to by many on that point, and have been obliged to answer them as I now do you" (Remsberg, p. 104).

---MikeM on 3/3/08

If religion is taught in US schools, whose religion? RCC, protestant, pagan, native American, Buddhist? Whose religion? The establishment clause is clear.As to declining values-thats a cultural failure if you want to reverse the secular tide start in your own home.

(Greyrider, I answered your 'evolution' question on that thread)
---MikeM on 3/3/08

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'Washington and Religion' by Paul F. Boller, Jr.,pg92, "Washington was no infidel, if by . Washington had an unquestioning faith in Providence and, as we have seen, he voiced this faith publicly on numerous occasions. Washingtons reliance upon a Grand Designer along Deist lines was as deep-seated and meaningful for his life as his belief in the American experiment."
---MikeM on 3/3/08

Presbyterian minister, Ashbel Green a Presbyterian minister who had known George Washington personally. "often said in my hearing, though very sorrowfully, of course, that while Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist." 1825
---MikeM on 3/3/08

As to killings, intolerance BOTH the RCC and protestants have bloody histories-so finger pointing is useless. What matters is all that is past. (hopefully)As to religion in schools, i must admit the RCC pumps out some fine science grads' and professors from their colleges, I have worked with them, my 'boss' is one. we debate evolution issues, but religion never comes up, thats maturity.
---MikeM on 3/3/08

dan, with all due respect, doubting that Peter was in Rome is along the same lines of those who dispute that George Washington was a Christian. It is simply historical knowledge. Virtually no one disputed it prior to the 20th century.
---Greyrider on 3/3/08

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Warwick, revisionism???
I suppose you buy into the theory of the worldwide conspiracy to create mountains of historical evidences to show that the RCC was an "old" institution by the close of the first century. In fact, Peter and John had to be in on the conspiracy and OPPOSED to Jesus in order for your theories to be accurate.
---Greyrider on 3/3/08

When was Peter in Rome? Based on?
---dan on 3/3/08

Warwick::The post is about Religious teachings in Schools. You Change, away from the original subject.In the absence of religious education in christian schoolsThe RCC,knew it was essential to keep the faith alive by the guidance of the H/S continued to teach the children and Religion became a part of the curriculum. WE see the removal of God has produced a Perverse people with interests of Power greed and no love for their fellowmen.Is this what we want for ourselves Our Children and Future Generations.
---Emcee on 3/2/08

If you want some really revealing discussions on this matter, go back to the Federalist Papers, our countries fathers discusses this, and vouchers, and all the hot button topics of today. Patrick Henry's disccusions should be read as well.
---dan on 3/1/08

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Greyrider the RCC didn't exist as an entity until hundreds of years after the Coptic church was formed!

You've swallowed RCC historical revision.

The church in Rome began simply as the Roman branch of Jesus' church which was to spread world-wide. It was only the power of Rome which allowed this murderous monster to spread wide, to kill any Christians who dared oppose its power. Consider: Crusades-RCC, extermination of Cathars-RCC,slaughter of French protestants-RCC. Enough said.
---Warwick on 2/29/08

I'm aware of the "new" history many on the internet are trying to "create", but the facts remain. The Christians in Egypt WERE part of the RCC. They were the first century equivalent of a diocese and Mark was their bishop. James was the bishop of Jerusalem. Peter was the bishop of Rome and all of the early church fathers were in agreement that Peter as the bishop of Rome held primacy.
---Greyrider on 2/29/08

Greyrider for one example the Egyptian Coptic church, not part of the Roman Catholic Church was alive and well in the first century well,before the RCC was formed.

And James was the head of the church (not RCC)in Jerusalem, not Peter. The only rock (Petra-foundation rock) upon which the church is founded is God the Rock, not Petros the stone.
---Warwick on 2/28/08

Rhonda, in 325AD there were no Christians outside the RCC. There is no record of any group of Christians disputing Rome's authority, nor any record of any other interpretation of Matthew 16 other than that Jesus founded the RCC and placed Peter in the office of Prime Minister of the Restored Davidic Kingdom of Israel. That is, of course, IF you really believe Jesus is the Messiah? I do.
---Greyrider on 2/27/08

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Rhonda ::Are Dramatics your forte well you should have gone back a little further 325BC.what you quote Luke 12:32 is asking you to TRUST in the lord why do you think so many 33000churches have sprung up like poisinous mushrooms.who do we have to blame for the mess we our children past future generationsare sufferingis it the church of Jesus or the people who strayed deancing to the tune of the devils march.Yes we need Christ in our schools to be taught by Dedicated holy people which we havent got.
---Emcee on 2/26/08

Parents are responsible for the instruction in spiritual matters. Train up a child. . . It is misplaced priorities that put the burden on the schools. I trust no one, not my preacher, not the teacher, or my parents, to teach my children on matters of spiritual nature. God guides and strengthens me for the task He has given.
---dan on 2/26/08

*He Created one FLOCK one CHURCH so the need for universatility is imperative*

Universatility like back in 325AD when Christians who did not bow down to the established church government were killed
---Rhonda on 2/26/08

Christ built His Church with 120 people ...the established church has never been persecuted ...but they have persecuted millions and will do so again during the tribulation

Christ's (little flock) His Church still exists withstanding the persecutions by church governments for the past 2000 years

Luke 12:32
Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
---Rhonda on 2/26/08

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Why should Satan be let in? It should be taught. The best way in this world to kick Satan out of our schools would be to bring God back in. How stupid can man get in kicking God out not only in our schools but in every segment of society. God is real He is alive and God is angry. He is also a patient God. But one day God's judgment is going to come down upon this nation. It will be harsh. Ofcourse, most will blame the destruction on something other than recognizing that it is God.
---catherine on 2/26/08

The liberals of the once powerful US have destroyed religion in schools and polluted what once was the backbone of America ...I don't think it's possible now to turn back the clocks re-introducing religion ...we have laws, loopholes, the ACLU to prevent this anyway ...maybe it's time that parents understand that public education happens at school ... instilling morals, religious education during private time is the parents job at home ...or seek a christian school
---Rhonda on 2/25/08

Greyrider/Sue::I see your dilemma,but by Gods word, He Created one FLOCK one CHURCH so the need for universatility is imperative. Hence Matt16:17-19 was HIS CALL God is perfect. SO who threw a spanner in the works? (with denominations) Whom do you think WE should FOLLOW He who decieves or Jesus who said "Follow me"
---Emcee on 2/25/08

So what your saying: God Did'nt make his words clear enough to be taught?
I think that the Gospel & the 10 Commandments should apply to ALL, No Interpitation needed!
I do know what you mean by Who's Interpitation!
The Church has become like a Disfunctionble Family, Thats why the Lord said that Judgment WILL start at the Church & others such as Preachers making merchandise of the Children of God & Broadening the Hems of Their Garments at our expense, ECT. ect.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 2/25/08

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No because there are way too many 'religions' and it would take the whole school day to teach them all. Remember, our fore fathers died to give this country Freedom of Religion.
---sue on 2/25/08

You can't teach doctrine. Who decides which interpretations? But posting the Ten Commandments on the wall should be fine, and the common generic prayer prayed by millions should offend no one.

Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon thee and beg for thy blessing upon us, our parents, our teachers and our country.

It applies to ALL religions and therefore does NOT establish a particular religion.
---Greyrider on 2/25/08

a survey was done some years ago at many secondary schools over performances of the students..and was found that christians tolerate stress better than non christians so yes, I will send all my children to a school that teaches teaches values which is very important ..that is my opinion
---pal on 2/25/08

IMHO::To instil good moral values in the minds of the most Precious commodity of any Nation is OUR CHILDREN.Yes inculcating the undernourished eager hearts & souls to be taught by those who are universally versed and appointed as Christian doctrine Teachers it is Imperative to impart such knowledge for their absorption.We see on these posts the varied ideas displayed here.
---Emcee on 2/24/08

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IMHO::To instil good moral values in the minds of the most Precious commodity of any Nation is OUR CHILDREN.Yes inculcating the undernourished eager hearts & souls to be taught by those who are universally versed and appointed as Christian doctrine Teachers it is Imperative to impart such knowledge for their absorption.We see on these posts the varied ideas displayed here.
---Emcee on 2/24/08

I do not think religion belongs in the public schools. I believe that religious instruction should be done first at home and then at the place of worship.
---Madison1101 on 2/24/08

No fear of God no regard for man. Put Prayers back in schools and put God's laws [The Ten Commandments] back in schools. Respect God and the respect for man will follow.
---catherine on 7/5/07

MikeM: "The establishment clause is very clear."

Yes, it is a restriction on congress, against establishing a national church, and against interfering with religious freedom.

It had nothing to do with taking prayer and the Bible out of schools, as shown by the easily documented fact that many of its signatories explicitly supported just that!
---Ktisophilos on 6/23/07

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The establishment clause is very clear. i somehow suspect those who want fundamentalist Christianity allowed in schools would balk if any other religions were allowed in schools. It would be, 'everything else is cults and I dont want my kids exposed to cults.'

My understanding of the constitution is its all or nothing,its best if religion is not in schools.
---MikeM on 5/22/07

The more ignorant men are the more proud they are. We should take heed of pride, because it is a sin that turned angels into devils.
---catherine on 5/22/07

Steveng is dreaming. Definitely, In Canada the Bible can't be banned because there is freedom of choice up there.

I don't know why people have to start a gossiping topic simply to keep themselves busy.
---Caring on 5/21/07

Steveng, where may we find this information on proposed bans on the Bible?
---Ktisophilos on 5/20/07

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Steveng ::Is this the truth or just heresay or just information for useless discussion.
---Emcee on 5/20/07

Did you read that the Bible might be banned in Australia? The lawmakers want it wrapped in plastic having a warning label on it and not to be sold to people under eighteen. Canada is also seriously considering it. I'm not too sure about this one, but I think Connecticut or Massachusetts was also considering it a couple of years ago.
---Steveng on 5/19/07

MikeM: About 20 years ago, at a university in New Zealand, the president of the Student Union banned Taming of the Shrew because it was sexist, and Merchant of Venice because it was antisemitic. This is a uni known for its leftist perspective in the arts and humanities.
---Ktisophilos on 5/19/07

Jack: Poor use the phrase, eh? I've always wanted to use that phrase. I wanted to use it before I die.
---Steveng on 5/17/07

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Emcee: I want to make one thing perfectly clear: I no longer have an ego**

Mercy! And he's humble, too.
---Jack on 5/17/07

Emcee: I want to make one thing perfectly clear: I no longer have an ego since God took care of that when he punished me for not obeying Him. One day I had a great job, the next day I became homeless and pennyless (literally). It lasted one year even though I'm highly qualified as a technical writer and jobs were plentiful. After I learned my lesson, I again humbled myself and again feared God. I thanked God every day for my circumstances and thanked Him for loving me so much to punish me.
---Steveng on 5/16/07

Steveng::I thank you for the choice words but what have I to learn from You Sir,do you have any credentials worth the lesson.Do I deny my God to satisfy your ego, so if you want to be Right take your own advice if you cant beat them Join Them But please do it in a spirit of Love Not under duress.No one is twisting your arm.
---Emcee on 5/15/07

Emcee: It appears that you are strong willed and stiffnecked. I understand you have opinions and positions, but you need to let go of them when appropriate. Don't allow judgement get in the way of learning. Explore the possiblilites yourself and ask "What if this were true?"
---Steveng on 5/15/07

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Steveng::Your post is out of place & has no bering on the subject.But to answer your question. Why is the RCC=Universal as God Jesus stated in Mat16:17-19was that word written in 400AD???& why are tou contesting HIS WORD.
---Emcee on 5/15/07

Mike, it is true, I know little of you, except what you reveal, but I did state things accurately, albeiet not completely.

Nevertheless, you will always remain a victim of that abuse until you become a victor over it.
---John_T on 5/15/07

Because your light belongs in the darkness.
---Cynthia_1 on 5/15/07

K-I have no problem with student led prayer. Left wing secular extremist, 'atheist fundamentalist' are just as dangerious-from my libertarian view.

Example; 'Merhant of Venice' was banned in a school due to actions of the left ACLU, who said it was racist. Othello was banned by a right wing-fundamentalist school board in another state for being immoral. Its all the same thing! Shakespeare attacked by both extremes!
---MikeM on 5/14/07

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Elmyra, anything of substance to say?

K Anything more to offer than name calling?

JohnT- You offer only a caricature, and do not deal with issues themselves. you know .50 per cent of who I am.

BTW, they were not "fundamentalist" but a varation of pentacostals. I know not to debate them as they bail faster than a speeding bullet.

I am not a 'victum.' I note fundamentalist do not head on with the issues, thus resort to basic fallacies ad hominum, non-sequitor, etc
---MikeM on 5/14/07

I was saddened to read today a teacher was viciously beaten at my old high school.She is afraid to continue her teaching career. This is so sad. I wonder if, just if, this student had been taught to respect and love his teachers, as I was, that this tragedy would not have taken place.I was taught the female teacher was to be treated like our second mom, at school. The male teacher as a second father. Makes you wonder. God help us all!
---Robyn on 5/14/07

Emcee: "The Holy Spirit & Jesus are the founders of The RCC."

The old saying goes: "If you can't beat them, join them." In a nutshell: RCC didn't form until the third century. The Roman Empire was falling apart and losing against the Christians and decided to form their own religion. The Roman Empire lasted until til the mid 400AD, but, unlike other so-called religions based on Christianity, RCC grew because they had the funding from the Roman Empire.
---Steveng on 5/14/07

John: "There are Christian schools to go to if you want your kids to be taught of the Lord in school."

Yes, but parents are still supporting godless public schools with their tax dollars.

MikeMocker: The Constitution prevents Congress from establishing a religion. In context, "establishment" referred to setting up a national church. Prohibiting prayer is violating the free exercise clause.
---Ktisophilos on 5/14/07

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Mike wants to play dominos or is he having hominy for dinner.
---Elmyra on 5/14/07

A little history often helps.

Mike M was raised in a "Christian" family that makes the snake handlers seem tame by comparison.

Mike wrote that several blogs back. He has not turned his back on God; rather on the abuses given under the name "fundamentalism".

Thus his conversion to Mormon was an attempt to find the rational in an irrational, abusive setting.

You may not agree with his choices, but only those who are adult abuse survivors can empathize.
---John_T on 5/14/07

Mima::I truly dont know to whom you address your Post,Based on your personal findings & the defect you seem to find in the RCC yet you do not deny the word openly Matt16:17-19.Is this a cat & mouse Game you are playing.The Holy Spirit & Jesus are the founders of The RCC.who & what are the equivalent in your denomination why do you not declare who you are what is your belief or have you founded your own church.Speak the truth.
---Emcee on 5/14/07

Sammy; You make AD HOMINUM attacks, and dont deal with the issues themselves. I'm scared of islamic fundamentalist, drunk drivers at 2AM, left liberals in congress, and am somewhat scared of far right fundamentalist. If you want to be credible leave out the AD HOMINUM and deal with the issues. As to heaven/hell/ my personal relationship with Christ, it just that, personal. I have no idea your personal sectarian views are. Lets use grey matter and forget personal attacks, if thats possible-.
---MikeM on 5/14/07

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I am unclear at to Minas statement. Some believe the constitution is inspired. That is a subjective belief, and must remain so. The bottom line its a secular document and sets up a secular state,through I believe society should, must be religious. As to the RCC most of the Founders were anti-clerical, and more so towards the RCC due to its violent history.
---MikeM on 5/14/07

Religion is already in public schools. It is the religion of Naturalism which teaches all things are the result of natural processes. No religion should be taught in public schools because it is impossible to have any religion presented accurately by somebody who doesn't believe it. Everybody is biased including the teachers who would be teaching whatever religion.
---Anthony on 5/14/07

MikeM., you're scared of everything. Scared of your relatives and scared of your own shadow.
Why aren't you scared of hell?
Aren't you scared of rejecting Jesus Christ?
You have fallen for a lie because of bitterness and unforgiveness towards your relatives.
You have given yourself over to a false christ and a false gospel.
Aren't you scared?
---sammy on 5/14/07

It is because of the truthfulness of this statement,--"The Constitution(Church) of God is Higher than the Man Made Constitution(Church) & it is to HIM THE ALMIGHTY, you & I will answer."-- that I am earnestly trying to get you take a look, a careful look, at the RCC. As I am truly concerned about your soul.
---Mima on 5/14/07

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Correction, washington had his hand on the Bible yes, as masons do. His inaguration was overtly Masonic. You scare me, I believe in the US constitution, in history the Bible as law has been a failure, thirty years war, pograms, Cromwell, dark ages, etcas...I discovered something all as terrifying and alluring as anything George Orwell wrote about. Sorry, America wss ounded as a republic, which is 100% secular concept.
---MikeM on 5/14/07

This is a secular goverment. Fundamentalism in america today is at once political, emotional, deeply anti-intellectual. I think we may be careening toward a type of religious facism that may threaten the country. I just saw a film called 'Jesus Camp" about a brainwashing camp for kids, it scared me!
---MikeM on 5/14/07

**At the end of the oath he added the words "So held me God" and leaned over and kissed the Bible.**

And the same thing is done in Masonic lodges. What's your point, catherine?

Exactly WHAT does this have to do with the issue of religion (of whatever kind) in public schools
---Jack on 5/14/07

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