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Unclean Homes A Sin

Do you think it is right for a minister and his family to live in a filthy home?

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 ---Susie on 5/25/07
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No! Nor a tax-free, rent-free perk of the job house either. There is little incentive for the pastor to be housed within what would be his own housing spending limits, and being on that kind of a dole spoils a man and his family. OK. The real question is: Who defines what is a "filthy" home?
---harold on 6/28/07

Spiritual leaders should set examples.
If people can't get control of a dirty house, how can they expect to have everything God has for them? God expects us to be stewards of all we have. He gave the pastor the stewardship of that home, and he should see it is cared for, as unto God. I feel the same about Pastors who are grossly obese.
---Anita on 6/28/07

well in my opinion i do beleieve that cleanliness is next to godlyness. and as a minister an example shall be in place.
---roche on 6/20/07

Thank you Robyn and Mary for your encouragement. Robyn, as for the times I have not accepted help, it's been for different reasons. There are times my pride got in the way, which I have been able to lay aside and accept help. However, I have also learned that some say they want to "help" when in reality they have another agenda.
i accepted help from someone that proceeded to cause MANY divisions in my family, it was not of the Lord, but was done for pats on the back, control, and more.
---christina on 6/18/07

Christina: Let me say my prayers are with you and your precious kids. Sound like you have been through hell and high water. I was going with your post until I read to the end of it and it threw me. If your situation is as bad as you say it is ,please accept help with your house. It is never an excuse to live in filth and clutter. Especially claiming to be Christians.I hope that you are. Look to the Lord for your help and He will send what ever you are in need of.
---Robyn on 6/14/07

God bless you, Christina; you go, girl! Praying for you :)
---Mary on 6/14/07

As a single mom with full custody of 10 children, an abusive crack addicted ex, I have had a very hard time keeping up the house. Judgment by others is painful, not helpful. My yard. for instance, would often be overgrown, and I would love to putter in the garden, which to me, under circumstances would be a luxery, and merely aesthetic. My children's needs had to come first, and survival was more then a full time job. There are times I'd accept help, times I would not...depended upon many variables
---christina on 6/14/07

It is not right for anyone to live in an unclean home. Not just a minister and his family. Especially if we profess to be Christians, the more reason to get off your duff and clean up. Not only your home but your mind and body. Your entire surroundings should be keep as clean as possible, at all times. Cluttered surroundings usually mean a cluttered and disorganized mind. You can't do much for God disorganized, running late and disorderly. God is calling us to a higher standard.
---Robyn on 6/13/07

Years ago. My church(pentocostal) and they still do. Would ask the congregation to wear white clothing when partaking of the Lords' Supper. Why? It symbolized purity and holiness. White also symbolized cleanliness. Our hearts, minds bodies and souls should always be pure and clean before God. This is the purpose of confession also for those who did not know this. So it is fitting that we should transfer those same feelings of purity and cleanliness to our surroundings.
---Robyn on 6/13/07

LOL! :D Goldfish, I LOVE your post--cute! And brings some seriously-needed humor to a potentially very heated subject--keep up the great humor (and stay away from cats hehehe) :D
---Mary on 6/12/07

Some people are content with a house full of cats, as a goldfish, I am not comfortable with that at all.
Some people have dogs barking everywhere, that would drive others crazy.
Some like tropical fish, I can understand that.
Some people are fanatic about housecleaning.
Some people live like farm animals.
Some people make a nest out of paper when they enter strange rest areas.
Some people are content, wherever they are.
It's who you know that really counts.
---Goldfish on 6/3/07

The condition of his home is a direct impression of his life. God is a God of order and cleanliness. How would God order a mans steps if he cannot keep order in his own home? If he never had a home that would be different, but he has and a family too, what will their example of order be tooo? everything has a place and if you cannot manage your home what will the church be like?
---Carla5754 on 6/3/07

Thanks for your reply. I believe people are not usually uncomfortable in whatever condition they're in unless they feel they're being judged. It's difficult to know why we do what we do, unless someone starts to explain at the door:).
---lynet on 6/1/07

Lynet...I asked this question because I wanted to see if people would say that the minister is no more accountable than any other Christian. Also, I wanted to see if the condition of one's home would be considered an indication of the condition of their heart. I have visited many homes that were filthy while doing the Lord's work. I wasn't there to judge the shape of their home, but to help with their need. Sometimes we have cleaned the home if the person needed that kind of help and accepted it.
---Susie on 5/31/07

We all need to remember that we don't see things the way they really are. We see things the way we are. For God to change the view, He must change you. Michael, you did the same thing you accused Susie of doing. You judged her and diminished her with your words. Feel more important now?
---Linda on 5/31/07

Susie stated that there had been at least one offer by others to clean the house and it was refused. Her question may have been asked out of a heart of concern that a minister would HAVE to live like that instead of a judgmental attitude. What you believe you see in others is always something you are familiar with personally and intimately, otherwise you wouldn't recognize it so readily.
---Linda on 5/31/07

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What is the real reason you posed this question?
---lynet on 5/31/07

Michael, it can be a bit like high school.
Remember those who were not quite in the clique, that were constantly trying to fit in? They made fun of those not in any clique, trying to win favor. When you become an adult, you usually put those days of gushing over others behind you; and repent of being a bully.
---bob on 5/31/07

I'm for the underdog, the one that others have no problem kicking to the curb.
The approval of God, supercedes the effects of kids/adults that pick on others.
---bob on 5/31/07

Michael....I believe that Trisha and Cynthia are the same person. That was my point. My answers are honest and not self-serving. Too many people who post just want to hear what they want to hear. They are too willing to compromise what the scriptures say. It has nothing to do with proving who is smarter than anyone else. Now, if I gave answers that "babied" everybody, I would be well-liked. If people don't want to hear honesty and truth, they shouldn't be on this website.
---Susie on 5/31/07

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I don't know about Trisha, but I agreed with most of Cynthia's responses, I think it is you with the problems, I notice you go around passing judgement on people that that you don't approve of here, trying to diminish them to make yourself look smart and self important.
---Michael on 5/31/07

I don't think its right for anyone to live in a filthy home. Because there are so many reasons why the home is filthy, we must pray and ask God how and what if anything we can do. Maybe the pastors wife can be blessed and asked out of love to clean it for her, chances are she'll do it herself only because you asked.
---Clara on 5/29/07

many build mountains out of a mole hills. Jesus said teach by example, live as an example of Him. If someone leads others, it is up to them to lead. If they say one thing and do another, that is hypocrisy and their words mean nothing. In Canada, if you rent a home or apartment and it is not kept clean, that is grounds for eviction after thirty days. A home being cluttered is one thing, but filthy is another. Is Heaven filty or did God say no unclean thing can enter. think about it.
---ashley on 5/29/07

Appearances mean a lot.If this pastor allows himself and his family to live in filth, he will probably be careless with his pastoring duties and running of the church. He would probably be careless with the church money and so on.You learn a lot from people and their surroundings. If you are a discerning and spirit-filled Christian. Offer to help with the cleaning of the home, if necessary, would be a more godly thing to do. Also keep them in prayer
---Robyn on 5/29/07

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Hey, there's a SUE here too!
But I still think that this minister probably has some kind of sickness. When a house is that messy, I dont really believe it's from laziness. Did anybody try gently talking to him/her about it? What did they say was the reason the house was so messy?sue
---sue on 5/29/07

Trisha....I guarantee that I have not posted all questions and answers on this site when the name "Susie" was used. I find it humorous that you would think that you are so intelligent that you can recognize "authentic Susie remarks". Unless you are a highly educated linguist, that would be really hard to do. However, I believe that you are using more than one name to post on these blogs. Isn't that right Cynthia?????
---Susie on 5/29/07

No, there's one Susie, and a Susan.
I recognize authentic Susie remarks. A couple of us find it less than genuine to pose a question about your pastor's house of over 20 years ago. I think I hit the nail square on the head.
That vision of their house worked for you all of these years to clean your own home like a tornado. But that vision put your pastor in a bad light, and that would not be a Godly vision.
---Trisha on 5/29/07

That was judging your pastor. I understand obsessive compulsive disorders, and how they're self propelled. I also understand when you throw narcissism in with it, it's a way of looking down your nose at everyone else that doesn't compulsively clean. The vision kept you going, but your cleaning also becomes the meter that you judge everyone else with.
And apparently, it's still with you, or you would not have brought up your vision of the pastor's "filthy home", 20 long years ago.
---Trisha on 5/29/07

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"Don't mock and make fun of others. I have watched you do that here, openly."

Trisha.....Did it ever occur to you that more than one person uses the name "Susie" to post here? Hopefully, we are all adults who can have a discussion with honesty without someone like you trying to give us orders like you are the "mother" in here.
---Susie on 5/28/07

I think it is easy to judge, A minister may well have the name but not the leadership and family support need to keep his home in order. I know of women who are very demanding and have their own private calling going on and so the home/ family ultimately became neglected, His family is extended to the church brethren too you know! anyone offered ant help, are there plenty singles in the church?
---Carla5754 on 5/28/07

No. It's not right for anyone to live in filth.
---Kim on 5/28/07

Susie; what gives? First your concerned about their unclean house, then you make a make a comment on you believe that there are more important things than mopping, cleaning, etc. How are you helping them by talking about them behind their back? If it were me. Yes, I would just go and help. If it happene 20 years ago, why didn't you say that in your question?
---Rebecca_D on 5/28/07

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Susie, you were showing us a life lesson in a round about way. It became a warped life lesson for you, because you were judging those people. The greater opportunity would have been for you to clean it up. Some people need to clean their minds up more than their houses. That happens quite often for obsessive compulsive house cleaners. I know, I'm related to one. She judges everyone by their house and yard. She's very narcissistic. Appearances mean everything to her.
---Trisha on 5/28/07

That fact that you're still dwelling on it 20 years later, tells me alot. It became the drive behind compulsive behavior. That's why you remember it like it was yesterday.
That image worked for you. But let's not say compulsive house cleaning comes from God. God is not obsessive compulsive. God's Mind is very sound.
Seek the Lord, get a new vision, one that doesn't put other people in a bad light. Don't mock and make fun of others. I have watched you do that here, openly.
---Trisha on 5/28/07

My relative snoots and sniffs her nose at most anyone's house..then gossips on the phone to others about it. To this day, I don't care if she ever visits my house and neither do the rest of my relatives.
We know it's her mind that is cluttered with thoughts that are not of the Lord. She has one sister that she really runs down. Husband/wife run a struggling business, work their fingers to the bone, the water well they have literally runs dry during draught, they haul water. They have a hard go.
---Trisha on 5/28/07

For almost 10 years now, because of this house cleaning gossip, the sisters pass at the grocery store and do not speak. She's burned alot of bridges with this obesessive compulsive disorder.
If you carry that air of judgment with you, believe me, others know that you're looking at their homes with an invisible white glove on. It makes everyone uncomfortable.
---Trisha on 5/28/07

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Susie, "it's amazing how much people read into a question".
You posted it because this vision of the filthy house has apparently not left you.
It is/was the driving force to motivate you to clean like a tornado every day.
---Trisha on 5/28/07

That was an excellent response Susie to the comment about the house they made. Here in the South, usually the first thing that is said right after someone walks in the door of a house is, "My house is a mess." That is even said if the house is spotless. I tell them the same thing you said.
---Linda on 5/28/07

If your so concerned about it help clean it up. If they clutter it up again, then it is their fault. What matters is, is their heart clean? When God tells us, we need to clean up our house, he wasn't reffering to our natural house, but our spiritual house.
---Rebecca_D on 5/28/07

This visit to the minister's home actually happened about 20 years ago. I was a terrible housekeeper, always making excuses for not getting things done. The Lord showed me what could happen if I didn't change my ways. This house was an eye opener for me. Then I became overly clean until the Lord made me realize that I could keep my home clean and comfortable without going overboard. God has ways of teaching us lessons that we need.
---Susie on 5/28/07

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"If your attitude was different, and your heart sincere, you'd go on over and help them out."

So, you would just show up at their house after they have said that they don't want any help cleaning? You would just do it anyway? By the way, my comment to the family when they "apologized" for the mess was, "I didn't come over to see your house, I came to see you." It's always amazing to me how people can imagine so much on one simple question.
---Susie on 5/28/07

Madison....See what I mean by people imagining all kinds of things? LOL!!! They even got you married!!!!
---Susie on 5/28/07

Ashley: You assume I am married. I am divorced. I live alone and work three jobs, one full time, two part time jobs. My house is a disaster, today. I will get around to cleaning it someday.
---Madison1101 on 5/27/07

I'm reminded of Urban Cowboy, when the aunt comes over to the trailer house. "Y'all live like pigs!" Opened cans of food everywhere, plates not washed, a real mess.
Susie, they're too ashamed to have someone in to clean, but I think it's giving you a bigger pinch than it should. People sense when someone is looking at them with a critical eye, that's why they refuse offers of help. If your attitude was different, and your heart sincere, you'd go on over and help them out.
---Toby on 5/27/07

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I wouldn't know what to say or do if I came into a house like that, had offered to help clean it, and was refused. God uses His body in the earth to minister to each of us. Their refusal of help was pretty much a "we don't need the Christ in you to minister to us". Some people just don't know how to receive ministry.
---Linda on 5/27/07

Ofcourse not. God expects His people to take of what He gives them, or you may not expect anything better. Or anything at all.
---catherine on 5/27/07

I'm pretty sure this is some kind of sickness. Somebody should very carefully, sensitively talk to the owners of the house. I don't think it matters if the person is a minister. Minister's sometimes get sick too and need our help. Above all: be nice. Treat them how YOU would want people to treat YOU if it were happening to you.
---sue on 5/27/07

Isn't it funny how people can read so much into one sentence? I learned a long time ago that there were more important things in life than to spend countless hours dusting, sweeping, mopping, etc. So, I learned to live with a little clutter and made more time with my family.
---Susie on 5/27/07

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I was referring to a home that is totally overrun with garbage which has accumulated over years. Every inch of the kitchen counters, the stove, the refrigerator and table are all covered with unwashed dishes and garbage. Every piece of furniture, including bed is covered with old newspapers, dirty clothes, etc. Bathrooms are so filthy that you wouldn't want to use them. This family has been offered help in cleaning up the mess, but refuse saying they will get around to it some day.
---Susie on 5/27/07

By the way, the phrase is "Cleanliness is next to Godless" and it is not in the Bible. If the Bible says that we know them by their fruits, is this a sign of their fruits?
---Susie on 5/27/07

cleanliness is next to Godliness. You never know when you may be entertaining an angel from God in your home. Madison,you have ADD, but where is your husband. His job is to assist and support you in all things. that includes organizing and cleaning your home, washing dishes, laundry, dusting, so you are not overwhelmed. marriage means the joining of two souls in all ways, not him master you slave. I got news for them. it is their responsibility to support their wives in all ways, not just in the bedroom.
---ashley on 5/26/07

2- Madison 8 years I have been married to my wife. We work as a team. That is what marriage is. If she is tired, I clean the house,laundry, wash dishes, dust etc. I offer my support and encouragement in all ways, so she does not feel stress in her life. the greatest gift we can give others is ourselves unselfishly and completely. I can't tell you how many times she has smiled from receiving breakfast in bed, or flowers for no reason. We love and respect our wives the same way we do Jesus Christ.
---ashley on 5/26/07

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Tsuanne: You are so wrong on the assumption that a disorderly house means a poor spiritual life. A person may not have a neat home because of Attention Defecit Disorder. They may not be able to organize themselves to keep it neat.

I am extremely disorganized. I have ADD, and have a rich spiritual life with the Lord. I just don't have the organizational skills to keep my home 100% all the time. Sometimes it looks like a tornado ripped through it. Oh well.
---Madison1101 on 5/26/07

Susie, what do you call 'filthy'? I mean, a little clutter or maybe the dinner dishes still in the sink the next morning is nothing. Month old food cartons and garbage all over the place, well thats differant. That would be a sickness where you should find out why it's so 'filthy' and help.
---sue on 5/26/07

"Godliness is next to cleanliness. I do not feel a clean heart and dirty surroundings goes together."

Number one: Where is "Godliness is next to cleanliness" in the Bible?

Number two: Jesus was born in a barn and laid in a feeding trough. Who in this day would consider that even close to clean? Every barn I have ever been in has had at least some animal waste product in it.
---Linda on 5/26/07

Number 3 (and certainly not least): Jesus hung out with publicans and sinners, Samaritans and lepers, scum of the world. Now how clean was that, considering that lepers were "unclean" by the law's standards?
---Linda on 5/26/07

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Thanks, Susie, for helping remind me that what is inside us matters most. In Luke 10 Jesus in Mary and Martha's home sets out for them (and us) that material things must not be placed ahead of the spiritual. The motive for cleaning house should be to take care of what God has given us, not to impress others. If the pastor has illness or other family crisis, a church grouo can offer help, but not just show up on the porch with mops and pails!
---Geraldine on 5/26/07

Sadly a cluttered or unclean environment is a sign of ones spiritual state. It does not speak well for one and certainly not a minister who is suppose to set the example. Perhaps the mom has children that keep her very busy and maybe the husband should help her out some. Pray for them.
---Tsuanne on 5/25/07

Linda, we can't worry about the intent behind every question. Sometimes you have to learn to roll with it; or end up in paralysis by analysis.
Susie, go do the right thing, clean it.
---Toby on 5/25/07

Linda, when we're waiting in the chutes, you can't hem and haw around, you gotta stay on that horse/bull and ride it. After it's over, critique your ride. But don't beat yourself up and then shoot yourself in the foot.
---Toby on 5/25/07

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God is holy,He wont want us living in a dirty and disordery way.A mom w/ small kids,not gd at housekeep-g,but God reminds 2 keep sink clean,not 2 pile up laundry,update files. Dust-g is my weakness,but make it a point 2 hire outside help 2 catch up.Am not a very good witness here,but still take effort to teach kids 2 return things, clean work area after cooking, or a proj. Others may be more 'gifted' in organizing/clean-g,so we can ask for help when we can,& not let others stumble thru our weaknesses.
---Sarah on 5/25/07

I think this depends on why you consider their home filthy. Our house is not the cleanest, and it is that way because we are always going from work to the church (i'm a bivocational minister) Many in the church hate the way we keep our house, they think we are lazy or something. But are we judging on something other than the fruit of the spirit. Laziness is a sin if that's why the house is dirty, but you can also be sinful by keeping the house too clean (by not being hospitable)
---Jared on 5/25/07

I haven't seen a Pastor's wife yet who didn't work as hard in church as the Pastor,sometimes harder,they are often spread thin. I would say let the church hire them a maid or stay out of their house. The wife may just need rest by the time she takes care of family and church needs. After all the Pastor can clean too so if he will not do any better why look at whats wrong and not look at all the right things they do for the people and church.
---Darlene_1 on 5/25/07

I would not say it is wrong but since he is a pastor and represent Christ, they should consider this perspective. I posted elsewhere concerning church furniture and keeping the house of God clean and beautified . Godliness is next to cleanliness. I do not feel a clean heart and dirty surroundings goes together. We should keep our homes, minds, bodies and surroundings clean as possible. People do not seem to understand this. Such a shame.
---Robyn on 5/25/07

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do you think GOD may be telling you or others to help the kminister?maybe he hasnt time,maybe his wife is to tired or expected to do to much in the church?maybe she is ill,or depressed?maybe thechurch shouild be helping not criticising
---doree4573 on 5/25/07

Susie, Susie, Susie!!!! You have too much time on your hands...idle hands. Go clean that house yourself!!!! What a sad post!!
---Annie on 5/25/07

Is it wrong for ANYbody to have a filthy home? Why pick on the minister and his family? I dont care about a little clutter and dirt, as long as his heart/mind are clean.
---sue on 5/25/07

I totally agree with Jenny about going over to help clean it if it bothers you so much...or suggesting that to the ones it bothers. I don't believe a minister and his family should live in a filthy home. If they can't get around to cleaning it, someone should at least offer. Even if they don't care if it is filthy, you don't do it because they care. You do it because you care and not for the praise of men. Offer to clean it and see what happens.
---Linda on 5/25/07

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Sometimes it is hard to discern how a question is asked because you can't see the expression on the face, hear the inflection in the voice, or know the thought patterns of the asker. In light of that, we must be sensitive to the fact that we can totally misinterpret the way a question is asked.
---Linda on 5/25/07

I don't think it matters. Maintence tasks take a back priority to some whose priorities are very full. Ministry/family/eating/study/assistance with school work/grocery shopping/laundry/house cleaning. What is filth? Clutter and a dirty kitchen floor? Wealthy folks with busy schedules have maids. I say appoint a group and give your pastor a maid service if they agree to it.
---jody on 5/25/07

Do you think it's right to be that judgmental?
---grace3869 on 5/25/07

"Do you look at things according to the outward appearance?" (2 Corinthians 10:7). "Outward appearance" is associated with Paul's "bodily presence" , which some Corinthians felt was "weak." The stature we're born with is not a reflection of our character, but appearances we judge others by does reflect what is in our mind and heart.
---Jenny on 5/25/07

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God looks at the filthy heart.

Jesus, Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread. Mark 7:2-5 adds, Now when they saw some of His disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders.
---Jenny on 5/25/07

When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they have received and hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches.

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?
---Jenny on 5/25/07

Jesus answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? They put their traditions above the commandments of Moses thereby nullifying them.

According to Pharisee's principles, some of their laws involved heavier guilt than sins against the revealed Law of Moses. The tradition of the elders said he who rejects hand washing is like a murderer their judgment will be poverty. (Mk.7:1)

---Jenny on 5/25/07

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