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Is Peter The Rock Of The Church

Was the apostle Peter the "rock" on which the Lord Jesus Christ built his church? In considering this question we would want to look at the fact that Peter was going to deny Christ three different times the night of his crucifixion. Do you see a problem here?

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Andrea P5: As for purgatory, even the Jews believe in a type of purgatory, they just do not like the Greek basis for this particular label. And Peter would not be shocked by it as the Books of Maccabbees were used by the early Christians (as used by Paul in his writings) and contains this doctrine as well as the doctrine of the resurrection of the body. Further the NT makes reference to this intermediate place as explained in the blogs on this subject. I can repeat them if you need me to.
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P6: Golden plates and cups - Jesus is our High Priest and guess where His Temple is? His Body (including us) is the New Temple, and in His Temple we have ministerial priesthood, but not from the Aaronic or Levitical lines. We serve under Christ, and our priests are a teaching ministry after the Presbyters/Elders of the OT and NT, and now serve as the hands and feet of Our Lord on earth, performing the sacraments 1 Timothy 4:14, Mark 6:13, James 5:14.
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P7: Read Rev. 4 and 5 for our example, in part, on how worship should be conducted. The Lamb standing as though it had been slain is the Eucharist. Where in the NT does it say that the Church may not show any glory to God while on earth? Just as the OT had gold plates and cups to be used for the Lords Table (Exd. 35, 37, 38, Lev. 24:5-7, Malachi 1:7-12), so do we.
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P8: While we no longer have OT priests, we still have the Lords Table (1 Cor. 10:21) and have fulfilled Malachi 1:11.
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P10: It is true that the NT does tell the leaders of the Church not to lord it over their flock and to be examples (Luke 22:24-26) (and do not omit the leading verses to your own example, 1 Peter 5:1 and 2). But that does not mean that they are not to provide instructions and enforce rules Peter condemned Ananias and Sapphira and they were struck dead (Acts 5:1-10) for not obeying rules of the church and lying about it to Peter.
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P11: Peter was not surprised by their fate and did not cease after the first death, therefore he knew what effect his words would have. He had authority and exorcised it.
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P12: The hierarchy is partially explained in the Scriptures and they tell us to hold fast to the traditions and ordinances given by the leaders of the Church (beginning with the Apostles) 2 Timothy 2:15. Peter (and his fellow Apostles) were given the authority to bind and loose (Matthew 16:19 and 18:18). So, technically, the pope and bishops are free to add to the hierarchy and attributes of its government as necessary (whether or not specifically stated in the scriptures).
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P13: Regarding Mary, she is Queen (Giberah like the late Queen Mother, not Malkah which is more like Queen Elizabeth) to Christ the King in accordance with the tradition started with King Solomon and continued through the kings of Davids lineage until the final King Jesus. We believe that Jesus crowned her, just as Solomon while still full of the extraordinary wisdom granted to him by God made his own mother a Queen.
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P14: Since you acknowledge that we are a Royal Nation and many of us are destined to wear crowns in Heaven, how is it that you condemn Mary being queen and having a crown, when she was of Royal blood on earth AND was the mother of Our Lord who is the ultimate King of Kings?
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P14: Since you acknowledge that we are a Royal Nation and many of us are destined to wear crowns in Heaven, how is it that you condemn Mary being queen and having a crown, when she was of Royal blood on earth AND was the mother of Our Lord who is the ultimate King of Kings?
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P15: And we pray to Jesus more than Mary. Not only at the Mass, but it should be remembered that the Mass is being said somewhere on this world, virtually every hour of every day for 364 days a year, and a service is given in His honour on Good Friday. But the role of Giberah was one of intercession, and so why not use what God gave us?
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Andrea P4: As for two or three being gathered in HIS Name, of course, the RCC has always taught that. That is why we have the domestic church, common prayer services and Bible studies, and that is part of why the sacrament of reconciliation works Jesus is there because two are gathered IN HIS NAME. The Mass is our highest form of worship, but not our only one.
---lorra8574 on 9/9/07

Lori - I'm in my 50's i lived through the sexual revolution. So what does that tell me about the church. Are you saying that the gates of hell 'HAVE' prevailed against Jesus' church.

Or is Jesus' church still around living breathing and growing in the hearts of all who choose to serve Him in Spirit and in truth. Do you?
---Andrea on 9/8/07

Andrea, one thing that I do agree with is that God's creation is wonderful. But his Temple is us. Not a building of stone and mortar, but of flesh and blood. By all the pillars and foundations laid by Christ, who have been born into Christ's mystical body through Baptism.

And, yes, God does love a contrite heart. It is our works, including obedience to His will, that bring the greatest glory to God. But we Catholics are condemned for that too.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07

Andrea: P1: Bring any questions or comments you have. Peter was a humble man, many good popes have also shunned excessive pomp when they could. After Pentecost, how did people react to Peter? See Acts 5:15, not surprising since other passages in Acts show Peter healing the sick and raising the dead, see also Acts 10:25-26 which you are intimately familiar but the condemnation was to Cornelius prostrating himself and worshipping Peter.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07

Andrea P2: Prostrating oneself on the ground or floor, is an act of worship and no one does this with the Pope. The Pope does prostrate himself (as do priests and bishops) before the Eucharist during special occasions. Honour is given to the position that the Pope holds, not to the Pope himself, but this honour is not in the form of worship. A representative of a king might be honoured in the same way, as the kings rep. This was done historically.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07

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Andrea P3: Mark 16:16 Jesus said that we must believe AND be baptized, so do not blame this on the Church. John 20:21-23, Jesus gave His presbyters the authority to forgive sins, so DO NOT blame the Pope for this doctrine. If you do not like these doctrines, take it up with Management (Almighty God). If you are not going to accept proper authority, at least follow the Bible, all of it, not just the passages that are easiest.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07

Andrea P9: As for me being a priest (1 Peter 2:9) guess what, that concept started with Moses in the OT (Exodus 19:6). Being a nation of priests does not mean that there is no ministerial component, both the OT and NT show numerous examples. I suggest that you read them a little more carefully. The OT was a shadow of what was to come, not a foreign religion that became obsolete.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07

Andrea, to your more recent post regarding the Agape Love Feast, that was the Lord's Supper. And, why do you demand that it only be celebrated in hiding? That is what they did in the early Church because they were being persecuted. The Romans believed that the early Christians were canibals because of their "secret" services. And not every Catholic Church is all decked out, but those that can want to give glory to God, why are you so stingy with God?
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07

lorra - you bring up how the RCC serves communion as if thats the way they did it in the early church. They had the Agape love feast in the early church.
I could make fun of the trappings around the RC mass - what a parade of pomp and circumstance. How far from the early church are they.
Thats only important if you insist that it be done that way

The best cathedral is the one God made - out under the stars. God is not glorified by 'our' theatrics. He'd much rather have a contrite heart.
---Andrea on 9/7/07

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Lori, It is polite not to receive the wine when sick, however, there have been no documented cases of anyone every becoming sick after receiving the wine. Perhaps the blood of Christ is stronger than HIV or other diseases. Of course, as mentioned, the cup is wiped and rotated between each sip - so HIV would not be transmitted as it could not survive that long.

Of course, I would not try this in a Protestant church.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07

Andrea-Just walk down the street with Peter and imagine - someone comes up to him and kneels and kisses his feet. (what would Peter do?)

He might do nothing, because when he walk by them in the NT, they touch his shadow!

Now go to the local home where people are gathered to worship - a group of believers sing hymns and share - then some big hot shot with grand robes walks into the room and waits on his every word.(what would Peter do?)

Listen to his every word!
---Ruben on 9/7/07

Andrea-Imagine Peter is teaching about the cross - someone stops him - "oh no" - we must 1)be baptized 2) get confirmed "do you believe that Christ is able to forgive you"?
If the church says so - it is.

Peter would look at you with amazement "what church" Jesus Christ's church is here in this house and in you

Or he can say Thanks for listening to the "Church" Jesus Christ founded, and I will deal with the rest who did not believe!
---Ruben on 9/7/07

Lori, if what you say ("doctrines were changed in all born again churches, bringing them more in line with the spiritualist churches. that is recorded fact in the U.S. on any history site") is true I'm really glad I don't live in U.S. In the U.K. that is far from the truth. Truly born-again people have nothing to do with spiritualism (or spiritism).
---RitaH on 9/7/07

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andrea: 1964-1969 youth rebelled against authority and tradition. Berkley riots etc. The beatles and celebrities introduced Buddhism, Hinduism and Far East spiritual churches into the U.S in 1964. millions left christian churches to join the Moonies, Bahai', buddhist and other churches. why. they taught all you need is love, peace and do what you want. drugs, promiscuity etc. to bring people back, protestant churches introduced spiritual teachings. OSAS, do what you want. Jesus loves and forgives you.
---lori on 9/7/07

Andrea:: You are sure riled up about something.Is it the people of the church,Jesus who instituted His sacraments, priests dressed in their sunday ceremonial best or just your inability to comprehend all this.Would it hurt you to join the Catholic church for say a year. Taste & see the Goodness of the Lord.At least this way you will learn First hand what it means to be a catholic.You have tried others & found it to be unsuitable.Are you afraid you will discover you have come home.
---Emcee on 9/7/07

con't, The Stonewall Inn-1969, the Gay Revolution is born. The Civil Rights movement began in 1961 for blacks. Women were fighting for Liberation. The family unit was shattered forever. People were joining the spiritualist churches by the millions in open rebellion to tradition and authority. With segregation outlawed, doctrines were changed, live bands were introduced in church. you only had to believe in Christ and you return to his kingdom. murder, commit adultery, lie etc no longer mattered.
---Lori on 9/7/07

con't. prohibition in the 30's, drugs and promiscuity. the catholic church fought the hardest to make them legal. people lived in fear of God. that was shattered forever when the civil rights movement began in 1961 and television was invented. many would die. many would turn to violence to push their agendas. democrats changed laws to make them happy. Madelaine Ohare, an atheist had prayer outlawed in school, 1963. with everyone turning from God satan took over. now fifty years later, no one cares.
---Lori on 9/7/07

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Andrea:1A People dont kiss feet
1B: Peter would kneel & worship the Lord.
2:: Peter never taught about the cross He taught about our Lord & his teachings to the multitudes,crowds were Baptised with the holy spirit Acts2:14-47.What you expell is rhetoric you have picked up from those who know no better and regurgitate untruths.
---Emcee on 9/7/07

con't. people can deny or ignore what I wrote, but I was there in person and witnessed everything myself. not through the television, internet, books etc. the youth began rebelling against authority in 1961 and they are still rebelling against authority, God and the bible. denying truth and embracing lies told them by others. history often repeats itself. in the 1600's protestant churches were born through rebellion. almost five hundred years later people are still rebelling against truth to promote lies.
---lori on 9/7/07

doctrines were changed in all born again churches, bringing them more in line with the spiritualist churches. that is recorded fact in the U.S. on any history site you choose to study if you have the courage to do it.
---lori on 9/5/07
what doctrines - in line with what spiritualist practices.
Please explain.
---Andrea on 9/7/07

lorra - I asked you not to ask what strange practices the RCC teaches today but no you had to go there.

Just walk down the street with Peter and imagine - someone comes up to him and kneels and kisses his feet. (what would Peter do?)

Now go to the local home where people are gathered to worship - a group of believers sing hymns and share - then some big hot shot with grand robes walks into the room and waits on his every word.(what would Peter do?)
---Andrea on 9/7/07

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Imagine Peter is teaching about the cross - someone stops him - "oh no" - the cross is not enough we must 1)be baptized 2) get confirmed "do you believe that Christ is able to forgive you"?
If the church says so - it is.

Peter would look at you with amazement "what church" Jesus Christ's church is here in this house and in you.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
---Andrea on 9/7/07

3) now you begin to teach Peter about purgatory and the gold plates that are necessary for the Lord's supper - how the priests have to bless it -
Peter would say "the priests are in the Jewish temple" we don't have an elite group of believers - you are a priest.

you would argue with him of course and he would explain patiently
---Andrea on 9/7/07

4)Peter himself who spoke against "being lords over God's heritage" in I Peter 5:3. Popes do not marry, although Peter did (Mat. 8:14, I Cor. 9:5).

This would have been the time to explain any hierarchy in the church.

NOW - you explain about how we venerate Mary crown her Queen of Heaven and pray to her all the time so as not to bother Jesus.
---Andrea on 9/7/07

1. one need not partake of both bread and wine. 2. those suffering from illness are asked not to receive the wine 3. The rim is wiped after each use. I havent heard of any outbreak of illness anywhere anytime.
---alexia on 9/7/07

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lorra, if catholics say the whole congregation must drink from one cup, heaven help you. You are inviting hepatitis, HIV, and every other contagious disease into every person there. the catholic church does NOT practise everything Jesus stated in the bible. babies are to be blessed, NOT baptised. only God himself can forgive sins. NO man takes this honor unto himself. do you want me to go on. there are about a hundred of them where catholicism has corrupted what is written in the bible.
---lori on 9/6/07

Andrea, I would point out that a handfull of Reformers left the Church and started their own churches, but from that small collection of new churches sprang most of the modern splintered Christian churches and cults. Each Protestant denomination has splintered into many more smaller groups, each trying to regain the purity that was lost and never being successful. A former Presbyterian minister admitted that they used to call each other the "Split P's" because of the frequent splits.
---lorra8574 on 9/6/07

Andrea, then you have a problem because Jesus gave us a Church. If you do not believe in that, then you have already fallen away from Christ. And the Church is described with a heirarchy and structure, the services are described and involve communion and scripture reading.

My Church matches closely to what was described in the scriptures and by early Church fathers. I find that newer denominations are filled with strange traditions that do not resemble the early Church or the Bible.
---lorra8574 on 9/6/07

Andrea, an example of a deviation from the Bible is the communion service I witnessed in a United Baptist church - they passed around individual servings of grape juice (not wine, in little cups) and bread. In our Church the wine is shared communally from a single cup (or in large parishes, in a set of cups) at the front. The bread is also served communally from plates and distributed by hand. Some Catholic churches do use premade wafers instead of broken bread, but it is communally given.
---lorra8574 on 9/6/07

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Andrea, many new "cults" have arisen that claim to accept Christ, but deny that His is one with the Father and/or that He is truly God. My church has never denied that, and has firmly set as dogma much of the doctrines about Christ that you accept today. Many heretics over the centuries have (ab)used the scriptures to deny the divinity of Christ.
---lorra8574 on 9/6/07

Andrea, you said the catholic church followed strange practices not present in the early christian church. ? They were?
---alexia on 9/6/07

doctrines were changed in all born again churches, bringing them more in line with the spiritualist churches. that is recorded fact in the U.S. on any history site you choose to study if you have the courage to do it.
---lori on 9/5/07
does doctrine change bother you? jos Smith rewrote the Bible and the moral code. He took 33 wives and young girls as his concubines. That pervert and you hold your church up as an example to Christians.

Pervert palace (LDS temple).
---Andrea on 9/5/07

Jesus said by their fruits you will know his disciples. if I had to judge strictly by example, millions of catholics and protestants fail the test. In 1964, spiritualism churches were the rage from the middle east. millions of people left traditional churches for them. to get people back, doctrines were changed in all born again churches, bringing them more in line with the spiritualist churches. that is recorded fact in the U.S. on any history site you choose to study if you have the courage to do it.
---lori on 9/5/07

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Andrea::The RCCfollows the pope"MY" church follows Christ-If my Pastor falls I stand on Jesus"so you say the WORD in Matt16:17-19 has no merit.Well what is your church, not mentioned in His word.Another mushroom?Why is it not MAN made?Andrea you surely are getting confused.The Jesus you rely on if your Pastor fails is the Jesus who said This is "MY church under Peter".There is no other.Your refusal is your DENIAL.You are a true woman but your words are false.
---Emcee on 9/5/07

lorra/alexia - Are you sure you want me to review strange practices and heretical dostrines. Traditions of men.
Whatever the Prots do wrong at least being splintered - no one man can lead the whole church astray.

The RCC is really ugly.
But the Prot church is such a huge lukewarm perversion of the gospel and a disappoinment too.

When the cults are the fastest growing denominations - WE WE WE the CHURCH are doing something very wrong!
---Andrea on 9/5/07

you know I havent called the pope lately to ask his advice on anything. Pray tell Andrea what are the "strange practices never a part of early christian churches"? I can't dispute bare allegations unsupported by any evidence.
---alexia on 9/5/07

andrea, protestantism is the best thing to happen for many. it gives many the chance to put their own heretic views into churches, doctrines, faiths, and teachings today, just like many did without reading the bible in the sixteenth century, creating many protestant churches in the first place. fyi. you can't create a church without the bible, but many did. It was locked in the vatican by the pope and was in latin only. try studying real history for a change. you might learn something useful.
---Lori on 9/5/07

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I state my position. No pope is descended with an annointing that comes through the laying on of hands when those hands are covered in the blood of martyrs.

I don't have to defend the prots - they have their own problems but the reformation was the best thing that ever happened to the Christian church.
---Andrea on 9/4/07

2)lorra - the RCC follows the pope my church follows Christ - if my pastor falls - I stand on Jesus. The RCC gets lead around into false doctrines and strange practices that were never a part of the early christian church. You can like it all you want - but it is a man-made church.

No I don't believe in a universal political church. Again I believe the Church of Christ has always and will be made up of believers anywhere they exist.
God does not need any man-made church to count His followers.
---Andrea on 9/4/07

Andrea ... My post said why I thought you were being hypocritical ... You said you did not want to advertise the murdr#ers etc, but then went on tho do this when there had been no previous mention of it. And you seemed to ignore the bad record on these issues of the non-RC churches.
---alan_of_UK on 9/4/07

I dont believe there is an unbroken line of papal succession because I dont believe the evidence supports it. That doesnt not mean that the Catholic church was not the first and true church. Jesus didnt instruct Peter to set up many churches (if he told him to set up any, it was one).
---alexia on 9/4/07

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When Luther raised issues with the church, he set in motion the mess we now have. Everyone deciding what the bible means, and setting up churches around those disperate beliefs. Hardly what God or Jesus would have expected I'm sure.
---alexia on 9/4/07

Ashley - no matter my disagreements with the RCC - we are allowed to discuss issues(all families do and religion is a passionate issue) but I could be a Catholic any day. I wouldn't agree with a lot of their doctrine but they are Christian. Unlike the LDS.
One thing the RCC knows is the trinity - which most prot accept too. The exception are usually cults.
---Andrea on 9/3/07

Andrea, there you go again, putting your faith in men and not God. Catholics put their faith in God and that is why we have succession. The Holy Spirit does not require a holy pope, or a faithful pope or a good pope - the Holy Spirit maintains Christ's promise to us and keeps the Popes under subjection in matters of importance.

Denominational Protestants have no choice but to put their faith in the founders of their churches - because that is where the doctrines spring from.
---lorra8574 on 9/3/07

Andrea, Paul warned about denominations forming with each following their own leaders instead accepting a universal Church in 1 Corinthians, and the NT often warns that sects (heresies) will come - but I would be surprised if even John could have foreseen the horrific catyclism that was the Reformation. If most of the Reformers had developed into one cohesive church with similar doctrines and ideals - then I might be wondering if I was in the right church. But no such thing happened.
---lorra8574 on 9/3/07

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Alexia::hatred comes from Fear a human trait & one we have to overcome.Most protesters show this trait not on account of fear of the church but the power of God .Its pride that keeps them away the same pride which made satan say "I am greater Than God ",when he rebelled,causing him to be turfed out from Heaven,to seek the ruin of souls created by God in His image -IN retaliation.
---Emcee on 9/3/07

Ashley you keep flogging that mysterious horse - specifically what doctrines did the Church change for Poland? Please be more specific.
---lorra8574 on 9/3/07

Yeah lorra i know that the split wasnt over this issue, which has never been an issue until fairly recently I think. Hard to answer these post which are so full of hatred. A few of these folks fear the Catholic church apparently.
---alexia on 9/3/07

alan - at times I am admittedly mistaken but as to being a hypocrit - please cite - and I will apologize and repent.

I have alreaduy agreed that Prot have their own history - we are not claiming an Apostolic succession with a right to govern ALL churches (vicar - seat of Christ) which the pope does.

Naming the murderers is not to defame the RCC it is to show the papacy is not infallible the succession being broken by unbelieving popes is only one part of that.
---Andrea on 9/3/07

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Alexia, as by now you may have figured out, not all Protestants believe the silly notion that Jesus was really bad at Koine Greek Grammar (many also understand that Jesus was not speaking Greek at the time in any case). As for whether that makes Protestants heretics or not presumes that this was the issue they separated over - it wasn't. It just makes it easier to stay away when all the other doctrines fall apart.
---lorra8574 on 9/3/07

Andrea "I would not want to advertise the successuion of murderers abd whoremongers that the papacy has prodused"
But clearly that is what you are trying to do here! So you are being a hypocrite!
No, a double hypocrite, because there has been just as much a "succession of murderers abd whoremongers" produced by the Protestant and other non-Catholic denominations and sects.
---alan_of_UK on 9/3/07

andrea. start checking sites dealing with social conditions in poland and germany during the 15th and 16th centuries, how people rejected catholicism. they were influenced by educated men. the bible was in latin. they wanted their own ideas, doctrines, fantasies taught each week so it was taught as truth. the catholic church changed their own doctrines to satisfy the people too. Now all you have is confusion, hatred and contradictions in all catholic and protestant churches.
---ashley on 9/2/07

Peter being the rock or the chip of a rock has little to do with papal succession and Rome being the one true church. Protestants could have stayed and chose to fight the heresy within the church. The RCC started killing them off - they had no choice but to be heretics or protesters.

You are saved by grace not by membership in a church that practices idolatry on a daily basis.
again I would not want to advertise the successuion of murderers abd whoremongers that the papacy has prodused.
---Andrea on 9/2/07

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Alexia:: In your quest you have just uncovered a Diamond of Knowledge.Now you must know its value & how to use it.God be with you.Peace & love.
---Emcee on 9/2/07

I did some research on this. The vast majority of protestants and catholics believe Peter was the rock. The m/f argument and the stone, rock argument are false according to linguists. Only a very few literalists interpret the rock as Jesus, presumably to eliminate the Catholic Church from primacy in Christian history.
---alexia on 9/2/07

Evangelist Jerry, I have read the passage in context, and the entire chapter and the entire book and the entire old and new Testaments. In that passage, Peter was the Rock, not Jesus. In that passage Jesus was the Master Builder. There are other passages where Jesus is the Rock, or the Cornerstone, or the Stone, and even the Foundation.
---lorra8574 on 9/1/07

Evangelist Jerry, here is another reason why I fall off my seat every time one of you guys raise that nonsense.

Non-Catholics insist that ONLY Jesus can be The Rock because He is the Foundation of His Church. The word for foundation is NOT "petra" but "themelios", although a foundation is laid upon a rock.

1 Cor 3:11 Jesus is the foundation.
Ephesians 2:20 has the Apostles and prophets as the foundation, but Jesus is now the cornerstone.
---lorra8574 on 9/1/07

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Evangelist Jerry, Jesus is the Rock of my Salvation, but He is not actually a rock or a stone or a foundation, and really is not concerned with how these words are used as He uses them in a variety of ways.

Matthew 21:42, Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17 has Jesus as a stone (lithos). Acts 4:11, frequently in 1 Peter 2.

In Romans 9:33 (after calling Him a stone), 1 Cor 10:4 and 1 Peter 2:8 (again after call Him a stone), Jesus is referred to as a stone "lithos".
---lorra8574 on 9/1/07

Evangelist Jerry, the majority of the time in the NT, Jesus is referred to as a stone, not a rock, and those RARE times when He is referred to as a rock, it is NEVER in the context of a foundation stone or something one would build upon.

Even in the OT, check it for yourself, Messianic references only sometimes use a "rock" reference, and use foundation or stone.

So if God could not be bothered to inspire His authors to support your flawed interpretation, why should I accept it?
---lorra8574 on 9/1/07

The only support for the idea that Peter is not a rock, is the mistranslation in John 1:42, where some Bible translations have "petros" translated as "stone" but this is unique in the Bible - Petros is never used generically in the Bible, and the correct word for stone is "lithos", which is used throughout the NT as such.
---lorra8574 on 9/1/07

Evangelist Jerry: However, the word "petra" is feminine and if Jesus were going to call Simon a rock in Koine Greek, linguistically, He would have no choice but to call Him "Petros" (which is the masculine form of that noun).

Good thing too, I have an aunt named Petra, but Simon the fisherman would never have gotten over that form of the name.
---lorra8574 on 9/1/07

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Am I getting the debate right? Jesus must be the rock instead of Peter because if Peter is the rock, then all protestant faiths are heresy?
---alexia on 9/1/07


Jesus used two different words: Petros (small stone, pebble), and Petra (large rock, boulder).

So he said, in essence "You are a pebble, and on this boulder I will build my church".

Peter is the small pebble, Jesus is the large boulder (in essence, Peter is like a "chip off the old block")
---Mark on 9/1/07

Just in case anyone things that the authors I am referring to simply had a different "interpretation" than I do on Zechariah 13:1, I would also point out that verse 1 is the key to the time frame for the cessation of prophecy described in verses 2 through 5. If the authors thought for a moment that verse one could have been anyone other than Jesus, they would have included it. To exclude the key verse in a passage that supposedly supports your position, is being very dishonest.
---lorra8574 on 8/31/07

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