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Suffer Agonies Of Hell Forever

Do you agree with this statement? Those who are truly saved at death will be eternally happy, and those who are not saved for whatever reason misguided, unbelief, will suffer the agonies of hell for ever!! --- What do you think?

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 ---Mima on 8/13/07
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These ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
---Andrea on 9/13/07

Remember, we should do both, pay our tithe AND keep the Law-Lk 11:42.

Psalm 119:97
O how love I Thy Law! it is my meditation all the day.
---Geoff on 9/14/07

My husband says I'm too sarcastic, but I'm really tired of running in circles around a few sentences and you dismiss the weightier matters

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
---Andrea on 9/13/07

Andrea, worshipping God doesn't make the day Sabbath. What makes it Sabbath is that God made it, rested on it, blessed it, and sanctified it or made it holy-set aside for holy use-Gen 2:2-3, Ex 20:11. Did He do that to any other day? Text please?

We can and must worship God everyday (might as well get used to it, we're going to be doing just that in eternity-Is 66:22-23), but every day is NOT the Sabbath.
---Geoff on 9/13/07

Yes, Andrea, for if one is loving their neighbor then they are obeying the 10 commandments. If we lie to our neighbor are we loving them? If we covet their wife? If we commit adultery? If we steal? This is why this passages states....
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/13/07

Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This is why Jesus said the greatest commandments are love your neighbor and love God because to love God and our neighbor means to follow all of God's commandments.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/13/07

The Sabbath however is different and we need not rest any more on that day(it was like circumcision, a law ordinance which is done away with). Jesus broke the Sabbath commandment more than once. I understand that if someone sins knowingly all they want without repenting they can and will be cut off from God if they don't repent.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/13/07

hey - I liked his posts and its not often.

As to the 10C - I've only recently (silly me) figured out that we all keep the 10 and don't want to play word games with Adventists.
4th C - everyday all day just like Isaiah said - from sabbath to sabbath
see even in the OT they knew.
be blessed
---Andrea on 9/13/07

LA Matt: "When God leads to post 9 posts I post 9 posts." How do you know that it is Gog leading?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word [think OT Moses & Prophets], it is because there is no light in them.
---jerry6593 on 9/13/07

Matt LA- 1Cr7:19 "obey the commandments of God" Gal 5:11 .., if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you. 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty, only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
---Andrea on 9/12/07

That's right Andrea. "if we follow Him - He does not lead us into sin." So when we truly have Jesus and follow Him, we will be keeping the Commandments. That's putting the horse before the cart. We DON'T keep the Commandments to have Jesus. We have Jesus to keep the Commandments. It only gets better. The Holy Spirit is given to them that obey Him-Acts 5:32. Remember, it's God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure-Phil 2:13.
---Geoff on 9/12/07

Andrea I am glad to hear that from you. I do very strongly believe one must obey Jesus, not to be saved but because Jesus commanded us to. I believe those who refuse to obey Jesus don't want Him and don't love Him. Remeber Jesus gave new commandments that can't be found anywhere in the old testament(Turn the other cheek is one). I obey Jesus. He is all about love and HIs commandments are about love.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/12/07

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Have a good day.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/12/07

The more I read in here ,the more I believe the church is apostate.
All people talk about is their sin, repenting from their sin, asking forgiveness of their sin, how not to sin(if they could) ect.
I hardly ever hear, Im a forgiven saint, Im set free from sin, Jesus became sin for me, Jesus took sin away, Im dead to sin. God not counting my sins against me.
We have been made righteous, lets talk like it. All I hear is.. Im a poor sinner..(NOT)
We are saints now, lets not deny the Cross.
---duane on 9/12/07

1)Matt - I could have written every one of your posts myself.

I loved your impassioned 'knowing Christ' thats what I mean when I say you can tell if people know Him even on these blogI'm non- denominational pentecostal but my faith is in Him. Bc where two or more are gathered there He is. Don't need a church - love my church. Don't need 10 C - I have Jesus - He does not promote sin -
---Andrea on 9/12/07

2)He is righteousness and as long as my eyes are on Him. I don't worry about sin. My heart wants more of Him - sin does not appeal.

Neither does righteous behaviors that make me feel holy - they are a lie - He is my righteousnesss.

if we follow Him - He does not lead us into sin
---Andrea on 9/12/07

"LA Matt: You make a good argument for blog limits."

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

When God leads to post 9 posts I post 9 posts.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/12/07

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LA Matt: You make a good argument for blog limits.
---jerry6593 on 9/12/07

"Guess you'll be going to hell too, brother. You left out a few words in your "quote" .....
I'm sure you haven't done any of those things, have you?"

Paul was talking about sin unrepented of. A lifestyle of sin. Those who do all those things continuosly in their life without repenting will go to hell.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

Hello! If people burn in hell forever, then the following New Testament passages are untrue: John 3:17, John 4:42, John 12:32, Romans 5:18, Romans 11:32, 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Ephesians 1:9-10, Philippians 2:9-11, and Colossians 1:19-20. - God bless you all!
---John1944 on 9/11/07

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels,

Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Sounds pretty clear to me.
---denna7667 on 9/11/07

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Andrea this passage means everything study it and look over it.

Paul wrote....

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Better translation...

1 Corinthians 7:19

19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Now we know Paul was against following the law. So we can gather a couple of things.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

a) He seperates the commandments of God from circumcision and so he is seperating them from the law.
b) Keeping the commandments of God are important but cirumcision(and thus any law ordinance, animal sacrifice, unclean/clean laws, etc.) is pointless.

When Paul talked about works he was talking about law ordinances and any good act a person may do to try to merit heaven.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

The truth is abstaining from sin is repentance which Jesus said must be done to make it to heaven.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

1 Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him, and if he repent, forgive him.

Why would Jesus tell us to do something God wouldn't do? He wouldn't. So we should expect that God won't forgive us of an evil deed if we don't repent.

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

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After I was born again, my cursing stopped, my smoking stopped(there was only condemnation when I smoked)I was no longer a drunkard. The old man(sinful man) has passed away and the new man is now shown. I know at any time I can go back to all the wickedness I used to do, but I know the result won't be good! That is what is called repentance. Those who go back to the world and let the world overcome them again won't make it and their punishment will be worse. Please read 2 Peter 2:20-22
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

holly * There is no hell, the catholics church made this up.*

That is not what my Bible saids (Matthew 13:42, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15, Mark 9:46, Revelation 14:11, etc)............

I am sorry, but All we have is your biased opinions....
---Ramon on 9/11/07

Matt LA - Guess you'll be going to hell too, brother. You left out a few words in your "quote" of Gal 5:21...try "hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these"

I'm sure you haven't done any of those things, have you?
---bret_d on 9/11/07

1 John 3:8-9

8He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

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1 John 3:

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin.

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Andrea open your heart. You asked me, do I know what it is like to depend on Jesus for righteousness? My answer is "you have no idea."
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

Daily I have to pray for the strength to obey Jesus. Only by God's grace can we abstain from sin which is what repenting is. Without Him I am nothing.

Revelation 3
3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments, and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

These didn't go back to the world Andrea.

5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Jesus then says anyone else who overcomes the world as the few have, he will not blot out there name.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/11/07

Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph just to name a few males, were all 'born before Christianity' so are you saying Matthew that they are now suffering in hell?
---RitaH on 9/11/07

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There is no hell, the catholics church made this up. The bible was written in metaphors and parables - especially revelation. God is love and love is the final law. All other, including death, torture and evil, will be done away with for eternity.
---holly on 9/11/07

Unfortunately it is true. All those born before Christainity are suffering in Hell. And all those born after, but who followed the wrong god and never found Christ suffered also. That means there are several billion people living today destined for Hell.
---matthew on 9/11/07

Matt LA - read all of Rom 6
When you have been made a new creation your desires turn toward Him.
Have you experienced the new birth? Do you know what it is to rely on Christ for your righteousness?

Rom 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[fn1] that we should no longer be slaves to sin

Rom 6:7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
---Andrea on 9/11/07

Thanks 7th S. I guess we can sort of understand why some are so unloving when we see that their god is a cruel monster.
---jerry6593 on 9/11/07

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Hey Jerry & SeventhSeal, I love to tell the truth... Remember that show? OK, I'm giving away my age... Keep up the good work... Oops, I mean faith that works :-)

Matthew_from_LA, you're scratching the itch when you say "We cannot partake of Jesus' righteousness if we want sin and not obedience. It's like saying 'Jesus I want you in me but without the obedience part.' It can't work"

Phil 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure
---Geoff on 9/11/07

*: I see many still choose to wilfully ignore clear scripture for those that "seem" to help them "hold tradition" without rectifying the multitude you've shown them that shows thier untenable theology.*

Yes like you......

*[Jerry]You are revealing truth brother!*

Most of the time, but not always......
---Ramon on 9/10/07

jerry: I see many still choose to wilfully ignore clear scripture for those that "seem" to help them "hold tradition" without rectifying the multitude you've shown them that shows thier untenable theology. Keep trying, there are a few that you get through to. This is why Lee and Lorra and Emcee all blog at you so venomously at times. You are revealing truth brother!
---SevenhSeal on 9/10/07

Andrea, it is not me but Christ in me that performs the works I do. We cannot partake of Jesus's righteousness if we want sin and not obedience. It's like saying "Jesus I want you in me but without the obedience part." It can't work.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/10/07

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Many don't like this passage becuse it implies you must allow God's obedience over your life in order to partake of HIs righteousness. And I say woe to those who are uncomfortable with that because it is very much the truth. If one says "I'm saved" and lives a wicked life, like a drunkard, they are deceived.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/10/07

Galations 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/10/07

Ephesians 5:3
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you,.....

4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6....for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/10/07


John 8:
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/10/07

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Yes most people are Children of the Devil. Your thinking is not God's thinking.

1 John 3:9-10

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10In this(the passage above) the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/10/07

In order to become a child of God you must first be born of God. How can you be a child if you aren't born first? Biblical. At birth you are born into sin and until conversion one remains a child of the Devil. You either believe the truth or not Jerry. I gave you enough and therefore, I refuse to discuss this further with you.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/10/07

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
---Andrea on 9/10/07

Yes Andrea, any righteousness apart from Christ is self-righteousness. Our own works are pointless. Jesus wants us to let HIM work through us and produce the fruit of the Spirit. The works of the Spirit are spiritual and Godly works for they come from God. Too many quench the Spirit and refuse to allow Jesus to shine through them, and they let sin reign in their bodies instead of the Holy one. Such people need a big wake up call. This is why we must yield to Jesus and yielding is a choice.
---Matthew_fro_LA on 9/10/07

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Remember who your teacher is...HE will teach you all things. We cannot just read the bible. We need to be IN the Spirit.
---duane on 9/10/07

Matt LA - I'm glad you were. If I approached people with hell they'd recieve it like the street megaphone preacher. He makes people think.
Hopefully they will think long enough to get to know God.

Jesus spoke to a religious people who were already trying to save themselves through thier works and not through their heart relationship with God.
He described the truth - eternity in the shame of seperation from God - that all their works would end up in that trash heap never to be restored.
---Andrea on 9/10/07

It would appear that Revelation 20:14 makes this all very clear, that hell is the second death. Couple that with Isiah 25:8, that this is not eternal. The consequence is everlasting, not the fire.
---dan on 9/10/07

Helen you say "After all, they have refused to believe on the One Who suffered and died in agony on the Cross for them." I disagree. Not being saved is not the same as having 'refused to believe'. There are still many in the world who have not heard. Those who have NEVER heard cannot believe. Will God punish them for not having been told? See Romans 10:14.
---RitaH on 9/10/07

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How will those who are "truly saved at death" be "eternally happy" knowing that their misguided, unbelieving loved ones are "suffering the agonies of hell for ever?"
---berf on 9/10/07

I think that the Bible is clear. The unsaved,wicked and demons are cast into hell and the elect/saved/chosen go to heaven. It is eternal in both cases. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Almighty God."
---jody_martin on 9/10/07

Matt: By your logic, the vast majority of the human family are children of the devil! The Bible says that we are all children of Adam and Eve, and thus children of God. Most of us are indeed errant, to be sure, but He loves us nonetheless. Does God love sinners? If not, Jesus was a lie!
---jerry6593 on 9/10/07

Hi mima, and yes I do believe this statement. Do you realize that the worst sin that anyone could commit is the rejection of the only Begotten son of God, Jesus Christ? And they who have rejected Him will suffer the agonies of hell for eternity. Separated from God forever. Praise God that He saved all of us who were wretched sinners heading for hell and we need to allow the Holy Spirit of God to lead us to the lost so we can tell them about Jesus. We should all have compassion for lost souls. Amen!
---Cynthia on 9/9/07

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Andrea, just remember that many are "scared" into the faith. This is why Jesus spoke about hell. I am one of those who were scared into the faith. I didn't come to the faith because I wanted to feel God's love alone. No, the main reason I came to the faith is that so I don't have to go to that terrible everlasting torment in hell. Hell scares me and I want to avoid it, and I will do anything God asks of me to do so.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/9/07

Andrea, as I said before I don't believe one would go to hell for believing in annihalation. I gave you no condemnation, just please consider what I wrote and remember "God's thought are not our thoughts and God's ways are not our ways." God knows all things, he even knows how many hairs on your head, not because he counts them but because he just knows. Imagine a human brain trying to fathom the greatness of God, His abilites, what he thinks about, why he does what he does, etc.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/9/07

It's impossible, only God has the ability to fully understand Him. Thinking is good, God wants us to let Him reason with us, but thinking can get out of hand because we can find ourselves thinking more about what we think rather than what God thinks.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/9/07

"That's one! Good for you! If I can't concieve of living with even one of my children being continually tortured, how can a perfect God permit the vast majority of His children the same fate?"

The problem with this statment is that the children of the Devil will go to hell and the Children of God are belivers not unbelievers.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,...
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/9/07

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I appreciate your thoughts and I wrestle with my own. I always remember Abraham who not knowing why just knew God. My heroes in the OT are always the people that 'just knew'.
I know that my beliefs do not effect God's decisions and I am careful to note to people I speak with that mine is an opinion.
I also let them know that my pastor is a pentecostal preacher and he believes in fire and brimstone for eternity

I bow to God's sovereignty.
---Andrea on 9/8/07

Brother Matthew from La. Preach it Brother! But many here will ignore the Truth.......
---Ramon on 9/8/07

when a person dies, if they are not in a position to go to Heaven, they do NOT go directly to hell. there is another place they go that will allow them to decide to follow God's word and plan. if they do they will go to Heaven. If they dont and reject God/Jesus, then when Judgment Day comes, they will be cast into hell. I do NOT believe that those with mental illness go to hell for taking their life. Just my opinion and interpretation of things I have read and from talking to people.
---s on 9/8/07

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

We know the devil and the false prophet won't be annihlated what why won't wicked man face the same fate?
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/8/07

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Andrea you said no one comes to the faith by fear. No offense, but the Bible speaks otherwise. I came to the faith by fear of my soul(I was being attacked by evil Spirits). It is why Jesus spoke so much about hell. It gave people perspective as to what will happen if they don't get forgiven. Hell does scare people. The next post I will give scripture to support that....
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/8/07

Jude 1:
21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Some save other with compassion while others save with fear. I'll tell you the truth Andrea, there are some who are so self-righteous that only fear of hell can bring them to the faith.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/8/07

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

An everlasting punishment = a punishment that lasts forever.

Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/8/07

Andrea: That's one! Good for you! If I can't concieve of living with even one of my children being continually tortured, how can a perfect God permit the vast majority of His children the same fate?
---jerry6593 on 9/8/07

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Andrea I don't like the idea of eternal torment. not one bit, but you must understand we must not question God. Remeber when God said this?

Isaiah 55:8
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

How can we think through what God would or wouldn't do and why he would or wouldn't do it? The only guide we have for understanding how God thinks is the Bible, and all of those things written must be accepted in faith whether we like it or not.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/8/07

If man was God would they make hell temporary? Would they make hell a quick death? Of course man would, but knowing that man would do that and say, "That's better" says it all. Only God kows what is best, not us. God is the judge, not us. What God would or wouldn't should come from the Bible and not our thought processes because man's mind is corrupted and can't understand the things of God. I don't like it, but I believe hell is an everlasting punishment because God said so.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/8/07

Andrea I believe those who believe in a temporary punishment in hell won't make it to heaven. When one is told hell is temporary and after the punishemnt they will go to heaven some people actualy choose hell over heaven since it isn't an eternal torment. As for annihaltion I'm not sure. I don't know if it can cause you to go to hell for believing it, I doubt it will, but at the same time it is false. Please look at these passages I give you.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/8/07

Quick Comment:

Rev 21:4 is taking about the saved not those who were cast into Hell.

The whole context of the Chapter is about the New Jerusalem reserved ONLY for the Elect. Since it has nothing to do with the wicked, I don't see your point.......
---Ramon on 9/8/07

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I see nothing in the doctrine of eternal torment that glorifies God - don't see - doesn't add up to my God - if I'm mistaken I am very very sorry. i don't see how not thinking God will roast a dog (conscious) for eternity glorifies Him or brings people one step closer to Him.
Jesus draws all men to Himself - He nevers threatens or scares them into heaven.
Yes - I've read all the scriptures - on this I agree with the Adventists.
---Andrea on 9/7/07

denna: The result of the punishment is eternal. The punishment does not go on to torment people in agony forever.

Rev21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither SORROW, nor CRYING, neither shall there be any more PAIN: for the former things are PASSED AWAY.
---SeventhSeal on 9/7/07

Those who don't believe in eternal punishment are in for a big surprise.

Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
---denna7667 on 9/6/07

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