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Once Saved Always Saved

Considering this verse in Psalms 125 2," As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever." Does this verse speak to the security of the believer? Does it sound like once saved always saved?

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 ---Mima on 8/13/07
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-- Ginger :

Shawn, I am not sure what you are seing in Jeremiah chapter 3. I know that I see. Israel falling away from God and God asking them to return to him.---Ginger on 8/22/10

Sister, You see the same thing which I've very clearly just shared, and that is... We're in One Accord that in Jer.3 Israel was called by God to repent & return to their Schoolmaster the Law.---Shawn.M.T on 8/21/10

Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied
---ShawnM.T. on 8/22/10

Jeremiah 3 verses 6-10 speaks of Israel's faithlessness and falling away from God. Being called a harlot and an adulteress.

Verses 11- 25 God invites Israel to repent.
He asks them to acknowledge their iniquities.

22"Return, O faithless sons,
I will heal your faithlessness."
"Behold, we come to You,
For You are the LORD our God.

Shawn, I am not sure what you are seing in Jeremiah chapter 3. I know that I see. Israel falling away from God and God asking them to return to him.
---ginger on 8/22/10

Scott, I would like to go over what you said, you indicated the people in,
1. Jude 1:5 were saved, well they were saved from the bondage they were in in Egypt. Not spiritually saved. For Israel is still in rejection.
2. Then you gave Matt. 24:13. I give you 1 John 5:5 "Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" Those are the ones that endure to the end. All others read 1 John 2:19, Those who left were not believers. If they had continued they would be believers.
3. Phil. 2:12, you forgot to give v.13 "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure"
4. Heb. 10:,26,27 having knowledge of the Truth does not make anyone save,
---MarkV. on 8/22/10

Scott 2: in fact the passage reads they were deliberately sinning. Born of the Spirit people do not deliberately sin. If you read the whole context you would know that as v. 28,29 says, "anyone who has rejected Moses law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment do you suppose will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot" counted the blood of the covenant by which He was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? It is a worse punishment to those who know the Truth and still trample the Son of God. Compared to those who never heard of Jesus.
---MarkV. on 8/22/10

-- Ginger :

God does not say they fell back into the law.---Ginger on 8/21/10

Sister, I'm not sharing they fell back into the Law. We're in One Accord that in Jer.3 Israel was called by God to repent & return to their Schoolmaster the Law.

Your statement on 8/19/10 mixed-in & associated losing Salvation with Israel's falling away from God in Jer.3 ... I've read it closely and I didn't see anywhere where Israel backslid & fell away from a Faith in Christ and lost their Salvation.

Ginger, You should read Jer.3 again more closely b/c on this & every other one, I'll always happen to side & agree with the well rounded teachings & Understanding of the Lord's Spirit!!!

---Shawn.M.T on 8/21/10

Christ resurrection is solid-Proof he is eternal.
He only needed to do it once-satan is defeated.

Christ is our Savior-"pointing the way to completeness'. The very definition of Yerushalem defines this.
If you do not support the death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus-you are in sin.
If you do-praise God-as your sin is exposed to you by the Holy Spirit---In-Christ and through Christ is remission by repentance....Line upon Line...percept upon percept...we learn of truth.
Renewing your mind with the Word of God-The Holy Spirit working through you(Vs-versa-support)---will save you from deception.
Your will know Jesus---He will know you.
---char on 8/21/10

///As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.///

From this verse and the majority of the rest of the OT, where God is dealing with the Nation of Israel, it looks like he is never going to give up on the nation of Israel.
---michael_e on 8/21/10

At that time in Jer.3 was God calling them back to Faith in Christ where Salvation resides or back to their Schoolmaster the Law(Salvation isn't by the Law)?
---Shawn.M.T on 8/20/10

Please go back and read what God said to Israel in Jeremiah 3.

They had fallen prey to false Gods and played the harlot. God does not say they fell back into the law.
I am not saying anything not said in scripture either Shawn. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

I happen to agree more with the teaching of Kath and JackB on this. Both are very well rounded and understand what is being truly asked here.
---ginger on 8/21/10

'Once saved alway saved'- not a biblical teaching

"I desire to remind you, though you were once for all fully informed, that he who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe." Jude 1:5 RSV

"He who endures to the end will be saved." Mat 24:13

" you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Phil 2:12 (Addressed to the 'saints' or holy ones - Phil 1:1)

"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment..." Heb 10:26, 27
---Scott on 8/21/10

Kathr said,
"Yes The CHURCH, the Body of Christ is predestined to be conformed to His Image. NO ONE inteh OT who was saved by faith, like Noah or Abel were predestined to be conformed to His Image...."
This false comments only come to people when they do not believe in Election. In order to believe their false theology they give new meanings to passages. They are in complete denial.
The doctrine of Election is emphasized throughout Scripture (Deut. 7:6, Is. 45:4, John 6:44, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:29, 9:11, 1 Thess. 1:3, 4, 2 Thess. 2:13, 2 Tim. 2:10, 1 Peter 1:2). The form of the Gr. verb behind "chose" indicates that God not only chose by Himself but for Himself to the praise of His own glory (v. 6,12,14).
---MarkV. on 8/21/10

Kathr 2:
" For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have called you by your name, I have named you, though you have not known Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me. That they may know from the rising of the sun to its settings that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity, I the Lord do all these things" Isa. 45:4-7.
Deut. 7:6 Israel was not Elected because of any merit or intrinsic goodnes in them, God setting apart Israel was grounded in God's love and His faithfulness to the promises He had made to the patriarchs. Not to the Canaanites.
---MarkV. on 8/21/10

Mima, sorry to interupt the party. Names are not added to the book of life as people come to Christ. They were written already.
1. Daniel 12:1, " that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book" Everyone who was written in the book were delivered.
2. "Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven" Luke 10:20. They were not added but were already written in heaven.
3. Psa. 139:16 "Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them."
---MarkV. on 8/20/10

--JackB :

Foreknowledge comes before predestination---JackB

Brother, Yes ~ It comes before... just as I shared it with you earlier!!!

--- Kathr :

Was God being dualistic, dishonest, two faced? ABSOLUTELY NOT--Kathr

Sister, Amen ~ God is absolutely none of those things!!!

Kathr, Don't you Believe the Body of Christ is Saved?

---- Ginger :

God clearly says in Jeremiah opposite from what you are telling me.--Ginger

Sister, I've told you nothing which opposes God's Word.

At that time in Jer.3 was God calling them back to Faith in Christ where Salvation resides or back to their Schoolmaster the Law(Salvation isn't by the Law)?
---Shawn.M.T on 8/20/10

Amen, Kath, Amen!
---ginger on 8/20/10

Predestined according to His foreknowledge???

We are predestined to be conformed to His Image....not predestined to be saved....there is a big difference.

Yes The CHURCH, the Body of Christ is predestined to be conformed to His Image. NO ONE inteh OT who was saved by faith, like Noah or Abel were predestined to be conformed to His Image....

If salvation of individuals were predestined, why would God give Cain a second chance???? Was God being duplistic, dishonest, two faced? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
---kathr4453 on 8/20/10

Shawn, brother, God clearly says in Jeremiah opposite from what you are telling me.
Yes, all our faith is in Christ, that is salvation. Yet, there are some that lose faith.
Actually Israel didn't return to the law, they perverted God's laws, played the harlot and unlike Judah, they left God completely. They fell prey to false Gods.
Yet God tells us in Jeremiah that he is still waiting for them to return to him.
---ginger on 8/20/10

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By foreknowledge, Shawn, Im assuming you agree with the Greek word used in Romans 8:29?

(pro ginosko): to know beforehand, foresee

Foreknowledge comes before predestination in my Bible
---JackB on 8/20/10

-- Ginger :

if one cannot backslide or lose their salvation... Look very closely at Jeremiah 3.--Ginger

Sister, Can you have Salvation without Faith in Christ? Did those in Jer.3 have Faith in Christ or did they backslide from & return to a schoolmaster which was the Law ??

--- JackB :

Brother, There was a condition which got names in the Book of Life and it's also the reassurance which keeps it from being blotted out of the Book of Life, and that being God's Foreknowing who would accept Christ BTFOTW and Predestining His Creation According to this Foreknowledge !!!
---ShawnM.T. on 8/19/10

Shawn I read 2 Thess 2, like you said. In context not just the verse you suggested. I prefer context.
He is telling us here not to be decieved and hold on to God becsause the deception has already started. It looks to me like many will be decieved and fall away.

Please read 1 john chapter 2 completely in its entirety and in its context and you will find that we actaually do agree here.
Those who do what is in are of God and have eternal security and the ones who do not do not have eternal security and will certainly fall away.
Also Jeremiah chapter 3. Some that fall away will return.
---ginger on 8/19/10

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Sounds to me like there are conditions to NOT getting your name blotted out.
---JackB on 8/19/10

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Mima, it may mean that when you put it by itself, yet we must look at the context.
I don't believe it means that at all.

2 timothy 2
11 It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him,
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him,If we deny Him, He also will deny us,
13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Believe it means that if we deny him, he is still faithful to do what he says he will do- deny those who deny him and claim those who acknowledge him.
---ginger on 8/19/10

The LORD'S people are those who are His as long as they don't sin and fall away henceforth. There is also the possibility of God refusing someone (a former Christian) because of sin such as blasphemy - especially of the Holy Ghost. Of course in such cases, the person should fully repent and seek God and His forgiveness, for with God all things are possible.
---Betty on 8/19/10

-- Ginger :

Doesn't the Bible say in the great falling away, people will lose their faith?--Ginger

Sister, :-) No, It doesn't!!! You should read 2Thess.2:3 ... and it as Micha posted earlier "They went out from us, but they were not of us{the Faith}, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

Ginger, The only place blot out his name is associated with the Book of Life is in Rev.3:4-5 and it's revealing the assurance of WILL NOT blot out... Any other blotting out of names that accrues is in reference to Israel's generational book of the righteous called the book of the living.
---Shawn.M.T. on 8/19/10

I believe second Timothy 2:13(just a little verse),"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." is speaking of eternal security. What is your opinion?
---mima on 8/19/10

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makes me wonder if the many who did many miraculous wonders in Jesus' name believed in OSAS?

i believe in OSAS just as long as the "saved" comes when we produce fruit and not when the seed is planted. see the parable of the sower and the seed.

"saved" comes down to sincerity of heart and fruit of the Spirit. and not "wecoming into you heart" so He becomes your "personal" Lord and Savior.
---aka on 8/19/10

I like the way Kath teaches this. It is very well rounded and just wonderful teaching, in my opinion.
I am not saying I believe in OSAS or not. I just agree with her 100% on this.

I would much rather say that our security is in and through Christ and it IS eternally secure as long as we don't fall away. We should hang on to him and endure what ever comes to the end.

Doesn't the Bible say that in the great falling away, people will lose their faith? They will let go instead of hanging on?
Maybe I am wrong here.
I just don't want to be one of those people.
---ginger on 8/19/10

Yes, the Lambs book of Life began from the foundation of the world. The first names recorded were Adam & Eve, then Abel. As one receives Jesus Christ then THEIR name is written.

Salvation has ALWAYS been by FAITH in the Blood. You will see this clearly in Hebrews 11, and that spoken of concerning Abel and his blood sacrifice..looking forward to the cross confirms this truth.

Those Chosen IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world is concerning the CHURCH. Christ was foreordained from before the foundation. Those who come THROUGH CAlvary are members of His body, making up the Church...God's Gift to Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/10

Shawn, if one cannot backslide or lose their salvation...I am not agreeing or disagreeing....

Look very closely at Jeremiah 3.
Israel backslid and fell away from God. Yet God still calls to them asking them to repent and return to him and He will accept them back.
Look at what God did to the natural branches.

By the way, David cried out to God for him NOT to blot out his name.
I wonder why that it is?
---ginger on 8/19/10

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To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, They worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?... And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the Foundation of the world. Rev.13:4-8

Now, Those who consider that the names of everyone born on earth is in the Book of Life(Wink) : That's refuted by the Truth revealed in Rev.13:8.... and as far as ones name being blotted out of the Book of Life,... Is this just your opinion or is that stated in Scriptures Chapter & Verse?
---Shawn.M.T. on 8/18/10

Now we again see in Hebrews that Jesus was the SURETY of the Covenant. This is where one will find OSAS. One must look up the meaning of COVENANT...a legal binding contract. And also look up SURETY.

Only those who have come THROUGH the Cross are in Covenant with God through Jesus Christ sealaed by the Holy Spirit. This is the EVERLASTING Covenant from before the foundation of the world FOR YOU.
Salvation is MORE than just being's having a totally NEW Nature in Christ....teh ALIVE RISEN sanctify and conform us to His Image.

If all you can boast of is your forgivness...hummm..something is wrong!
---kathr4453 on 8/18/10

Very nice post Kath...

Someone who sees!!

Amen sister, teach it!

All I can say is ......

---ginger on 8/18/10

In the OT on the day of atonement ALL sin was COVERED. not just for a few select. The OT was a pattern for us.

All came out under the blood in Egypt, however ALL did not go into the Land. The LAND was the promise..not the wilderness. Those who did not enter died IN THEIR SIN in the wilderness, yet theyALL came out under the blood.

Many come to the CROSS, yet very few come THROUGH the cross. Just like Hebrews 3 and 4. They were an example of salvation for US!!!

Are you suggesting Jesus has only so many QUICKENS of life in Him? Really? We're saved by His RISEN LIFE. God Justifies the UNGODLY through Jesus blood. So Jesus DID die for ungodly SINNERS.

Those who fail to see OT patterns make up their own Gospels.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/10

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'We as Christians do not know the heart of others'- MarkV

Matthew 7:15-20, Jesus says the opposite.

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. "
---ginger on 8/18/10

If Gods wrath is upon men for breaking His Law and then He sent his Son into the world to die for their sins, how much MORE WRATH will God take out on those who reject Gods gift of love for them in the death, burial and resurrection of his Son?

For ones name to be blotted out of the book of life, it would need to be written there already. And since none of us would be so bold as to think its because we deserve it, it must be because of Gods grace.

(OPINION HERE PLEASE NOTE) Ive considered that all men are under the blood... until they reject the truth of Christ and that is when their name is blotted out of the book of life.

God winks at ignorance but when the truth is revealed a man MUST repent and believe. (Acts 17:30)
---JackB on 8/18/10

Jesus did not pay for the sins of the wicked. You said He paid for the sins of every man. If He did then they are forgiven already - MarkV

Brother, please get out of that church!

Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour, that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN.

Christ is a high priest after the order of Melchizedek, before the Law of Moses was even given. Men arent condemned for their sins since Christ died for all men. They are condemned for not believing on the name of the Son of God who died FOR their sins! John 3:18, Hebrews 10:28,29. This is worse than breaking Gods Law.
---JackB on 8/18/10

Markv, I did not mean literally what do we do with them.

We are told already that not all Israel is Israel.
That the natural branches are broken off and the wild branch grafted in. but also the natural can be grafted back in if they turn to Christ and repent.

Anyway, the point of Jeremiah is that not only is Israel in a backsliden condition, so are those who are in the position I described and asked micha about.

So, not all who left us are as micha pointed out in scripture. It is the ones who never return, that were not of us in the first place. And God clearly says in Jer. 3, that he is holding the door open for backsliden Israel and anyone else who wishes to return to him.
---ginger on 8/18/10

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When Christ died on the Cross, He paid the sin debt for all.

What do we do? Accept it
Of course if we don't accept it, we are lost, but it has been offered to all.
---michael_e on 8/18/10

Ginger ask Micha,
"So, what do we do with the ones who believe in God and that Christ died for their sins yet don't practice their faith?"
You do not do anything, God does. God knows if their faith is genuine saving faith since God gives that faith. We as Christians do not know the heart of others, all we can do is assume many things but we really do not know. Then you ask, Jer.3 the chapter speaks of backsliders. Ginger, Israel is still in rejection. They could not be saved and lost again. They were God's chosen people, but they have not received salvation to this day as a nation. Some individuals were saved by Grace through faith. There is no salvation by the law since no one but Jesus could keep the law.
---MarkV. on 8/18/10

Here's your backsliders:
1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
---micha9344 on 8/17/10

So, what do we do with the ones who believe in God and that Christ died for their sins yet don't practice their faith?
How do you reconcile Jeremiah chapter 3?
This chapter speaks directly to backsliders.
God says that people fall away yet will return in Jeremiah 3. They left God yet God invites them to return to him. He leaves the door open.
---ginger on 8/18/10

Michael e, you ask me,
"MarkV, When Christ died were you already righteous? We both know that answer." I was not righteous until God saved me. When He drew me to Himself out of the path of unrighteousness and gave me a new life. Jesus said, "no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day" John 6:44.
Then you said:
"Rom.5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly (Everyone at one point in their life)
When God drew me to Himself, Christ died for me who didn't deserve to be save. When God drew us to Himself we were very ungodly.
---MarkV. on 8/18/10

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Micheal e, I sorry to disappoint you, but Jesus did not pay for the sins of the wicked.

MarkV, When Christ died were you already righteous? We both know that answer.

Rom.5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly (Everyone at one point in their life)

Rom. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we (MARKV and everyone else ever born) were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Bible study is more importrant than any commentary
The easiest gospel message found, all we have to do is learn to accept it 1Cor.15:1-4
---michael_e on 8/18/10

Micheal e, I sorry to disappoint you, but Jesus did not pay for the sins of the wicked. You said He paid for the sins of every man. If He did then they are forgiven already. And none are going to hell. If He paid for their sins, there would be no judgment for them, for their rebellion would have been paid by Christ, and God is not going to punish unjustly. Now, His sacrifice is sufficient for everyone, in that if everyone believed in Him, they would all be save. But they don't. Sorry but you have your theology somewhere turn around. If your theology was correct it would be one of Universal salvation, and that is not true.
---MarkV. on 8/17/10

Here's your backsliders:
1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
---micha9344 on 8/17/10

No! That is not at all what Scripture is saying. Psa. 125:2>>>"As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds His people from this time forth and forever">>>> Explain: As the mountains that encircles the Holy city stand as silent sentinels guarding her gates, so too God silently stands in the shadows of our lives, protecting us from the assaults of the wicked one: Sometimes, I wish that God would make some noise, myself. But, then I'm thinking, He does, in thunder or in great disasters. I must tell the truth. these floods, storms, troubles which we are experiencing are God's judgments upon wicked nations and it's people. [Eze. 25:16].
---catherine on 8/17/10

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Man needs saved from God's coming wrath.

God tells us what we must do to escape that wrath.

Faith in what God says causes us to believe the gospel of grace.

The reason once saved always saved is asked is failure to understand the cross work of Christ.

2 Cor 5:17-19

When Christ died all our sin was future. He paid for all sin, for all men, for all time. We are not saved by getting rid of our sin but by believing the truth of the gospel which is "Christ died FOR our sins, was buried and rose again the third day".

We don't have to carry the guilt of our sins. He set us free from the bondage of sin so we could do something we could never do before -- serve Him!
---michael_e on 8/17/10

Bob/Lawrence both are correct. The moment a sinner becomes a child of God, he no longer belongs to the world. When conversion has taken place, true commitment takes place. Many want to have a foot outside and one inside. They want what God promises but also want it their way, they think they deserve it and keep that foot outside so that if they want to change their minds they can. Still in control of their lives and never give their lives to Christ completely. True believers who belong to Christ will never be lost. In the end "they went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us"
---MarkV. on 8/17/10

No, just as once married does not mean always married, for many people backslide and leave God to serve sin: and they never repent back to God, but instead they go right down into the grave in sin.
---Eloy on 8/17/10

Bob G.
You take belief scriptures & the prayer of the sinner with works together with Acts 2 v's 37 - 41 which Fulfills Matt.28 v's 19 - 20 & you have got The only salvation God has to offer.
Some people will Not accept it because they want No part of complete & total submission to God.

They want Man - made trin relig - org's from here 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15 where they can put one foot in for God, and the other foot in to flirt with the devil & his things of the world. That Is just what they Are trying to do.

Guess what?, God will Not tolerate it.
---Lawrence on 8/17/10

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Yes it does sound like once saved always saved. But if you cnsider other text then you will dismiss once saved alays saved.

Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered, but his blood will I require at thine hand.
---francis on 8/17/10

You might try reading many different scriptures teaching us that we are adopted in to God's family by His choice and we are saved by His Grace and kept by that same Grace. The Scriptures teach through many books of the New Testament, that one who trusts Christ as Savior is passed from death to life. The Scriptures DO NOT support that we can be back passed to eternal death. Try John chapters 5, 6, 10,, Romans 4, 5, 6, 10, Ephesians 1 (beautiful portion-read whole chapter), 2,. If you will sit down and read the whole New Testament and NOT tell God what He is saying, but allow the Holy Spirit to teach you what God says, you will change your mind...
---Bob_Gilliland on 8/16/10

The so called once saved always saved Is Man - made False teachings that came from here 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15 just like the sinners prayer, no works salvation, easy believism etc.

Those that believe such think about this here.
If you ( man or woman ) was in the very act of committing adultery with another man or woman,
or even if you took the mark of the beast & the rapture would take place do you think you would go? People that do believe such, their mind Is sered & in great delusion.
---Lawrence on 8/16/10

#2. Mima, this passages in Psalms are similar to Psalms 85 which rejoices over Israel's return from Egypt, but contrast with Ps. 137 which laments the pain of the Babylonian Captivity. Can we use this passages as assurance for our salvation, I don't think so since the ministry of the Holy Spirit is different in the Old Testament then in the New. Plus the passage has nothing to do with whether one is saved or not, but about Israel. Different meaning.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/07

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"Greater is He who is in me, then he who is in the world" That should be the words of every believer. It is by the power of Christ that we are brought to the light, and are kept for His glory. It has nothing to do about what we are capable or not of doing. The Psalm 125:1-5 is talking about the return from captivity most likely the Babylonian Captivity, from which there was three separate returns, under Zerubbabel in Ezra 1-6 under Ezra in Ezra 7-10 and under Nehemiah in Neh. 1,2.
---Mark_V. on 9/4/07

Truth is we will keep sinning while in the flesh. And everytime we sin the devil will try to seduce us not to confess, to lose confidence to come to God and that lack of confindence is actually pride. The moment we do not yield to the Holyspirits desire to confess we open the window to backslide. I believe in eternal security for those backsliders who were humble and seek God and willing to turn away from the world. He who is forgiven more has more love
---Richard on 8/27/07

Debby: exactly. We are commanded to live our lives as an example of Jesus Christ. We have faith that Jesus is the Christ and change our lives accordingly. enduring to the end is the hard part. Many though, put there faith in men. When confronted with temptation, they give in easily. We are to live separately from the world, not indulge in satan's pleasures of the flesh. We can repent and walk the straight and narrow again, but it has to come from within.
---Lori on 8/20/07

God will always keep those who continue to live obediently towrds him. But he will not keep forever those who refuse to repent. This is why there is a stern warning to the Jews in the book of Hebrews - saying that they need to be careful not to be like the people who fell in the wilderness, through unrepentent sin. People can fall away through carelessness and lack of sincereity towards GOd.
---Debby on 8/20/07

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Karen, you have the choice of reading or not reading them. That is your choice as a person. I am not the only one writing them. I might be one that write more, but my faith encourages me to write about it. God has put that in my heart and maybe He put it in your heart to complain of what I write to hardened your heart. I don't know, what His ultimate goal for each is. I only do what I feel the Spirit leads me to do.
---mark on 8/20/07

#2. Karen: Since I believe that God gives life and only He can, I also believe that nothing happens without Him knowing it, or permiting it to happen. So if you want to complain, go for it. If you want to help the ministry then help. It's still your choice. But whatever choice you decide, God already knows. That is my faith. If you glory in what you do, it is because it comes from you and not God. I glory each day in the gift of Faith that Christ gave me so I write about it. Peace to you.
---mark on 8/20/07

"Andrea, people are tired of hearing about this topic over and over. I understand that perfectly well myself."

No mark, you really have no idea how tired people are. People are tired of your interpretations, because you're the only one giving them.
---karen on 8/20/07

#2. persecution was and is happening when someone speaks on behalf of "Faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation" and no matter the topic we talk about, faith is included, for without faith, it is impossible to please God. Mostly all topics as Sanctification, Glorification, Old Testament, New Testament believers, all pertain to Faith. The mark of a true believer is faith. Even many of the personal questions are answered with "faith in Christ" to comfort the troubled person.
---mark on 8/19/07

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Andrea, people are tired of hearing about this topic over and over. I understand that perfectly well myself. I do disagree we should stop answering because this site gets many new believers who are just starting and have the same questions. The problem with this question is that name calling does start. No debates are clean most of the time. But no matter what other question we ask as Elder suggest to ask, all lead to "Faith in Jesus Christ alone"One cannot escape that fact at all.
---mark on 8/19/07

#3. I have seen some questions about Catholics that get carried away, but that is to be expected since they are the biggest institution and when someone is big, they are expected, by the people, to perform better then the others. So they do in turn have more history people can check. Which like the United States, for been big, are always judge more highly then others. Thank you for your answers, I have read many of them coming from you. You have been very helpful.
---mark on 8/19/07

I guess the real question Mima is --- is there a good reason to pursue the OSAS issue. I'm not for it but the very people who defend it are not the ones who would be harmed by it. Thus, is it wrong to believe that God can and does handle it?

personally I think the horse is dead.
---Andrea on 8/18/07

Only Jesus's Blood holds power!Rom.6:15 What then?-Shall we sin because we aren't under the law-but under grace?God forbid! Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey-his servants ye become whom ye obey-whether of sin which leads unto death-or obedience unto righteousness?Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body-that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.1Jh3:9Whoever is born of God doth not commit sin-for His seed remains in him-he cannot sin-cause he is born of God.
---Lisa on 8/14/07

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1 John 1:88If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
---Lisa on 8/14/07

The sins of God's people were redeemed by Christ, once for all. They are regenerated by God at the time appointed. Our eternal salvation is permenant. Our present salvation is dependant upon our obedience. We can take hold of it, or loose it, by our actions. Visit for the truth.
---BaptistCommentary on 8/13/07

The Bible says that All have sinned and come short the Glory of God. That is the purpose of the Cross. Jesus is the only one without sin and when He was Crucified on the cross for OUR sin His Blood covers us till we meet Him in Heaven. That is NOT an excuse to go out and do whatever you want. As Christians we strive to be the best we can be.
---Haley on 8/13/07

Also If you could by any chance Lose your Salvation then that would mean that Jesus Christ would have to come back to earth and be reCrucified for you to be saved again....Not that just isn't right.
---Haley on 8/13/07

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Salvation Is Free and Eternal. In Romans 8: 35-39 states your security and what can separate us from God. Just because one of your children does something that you dissagree with or you think is wrong doesn't mean they are not still your will punish them but they are still your child even IF they change their name.Big Questian is..were they really saved?
---Haley on 8/13/07

25. Romans 6:1-23 addresses the issue of continuing to sin after being united with Christ through salvation. Never in the entire passage is there any suggestion that continuing to sin will cause the believer to forfeit his salvation and eternal life

truthortradition dot com
---Andrea on 8/13/07

Elder: It seems that Mima has posted quite a few times on this and other issues that cause division and discord here. He recently posted a Catholic bashing question as well.

Mima: The horse is dead. Quit beating it. Let it rest in peace.
---Trish9863 on 8/13/07

Considering that God's people are those who conintue in Him and those who walk away from Him are no longer His people, the answer is no. Eternal security only exists for those who continue in God's goodness(Romans 11:22). Those who go back to the world and don't repent will have their names blotted out of the book of life.(Exodus 32:33)(Revelation 3:5)(Revelation 22:19)
---Matthew_from_LA on 8/13/07

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Mima: There are many verses that speak to the idea that once we accept Christ as savior, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for eternity and will be with the Lord no matter what. This is one of them.
---Trish9863 on 8/13/07

No, it sure doesn't.
That is about Israel, and that is absolutely true. God is round about His people, forever and ever. I don't believe in replacement theology, do you, Mima?
---Virginia on 8/13/07

Mimi this old issue has been hashed out time and again. There are many rude and hateful things said to people on both sides of the view, so I wonder why you desire to bring up the issue again?
Have you not had enough of the rhetoric and rudeness? Is it that there are NO Bible questions left to ponder?
I remember when this site was about answering Bible questions and not choosing sides to fight. Now you bring back the fight.
I am disappointed.............
---Elder on 8/13/07

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