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Rules For Christian Debating

There are rules for debating. Would you like to give some guidelines (suggestions) for this forum?

Moderator - Everyone should take the Fruit of the Spirit bible quiz.

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 ---Andrea on 9/6/07
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helen - if the heart always understood the mind you would be right.
Its an action of the heart - it is not right or wrong.
Feelings do not have to be defended. They just are - to deny them is the lie.

So you just own them and move on.

its not a judgment of God.
Sometimes its just an attitude. Have you noticed that some people are holding on to attitudes that could be released if they would take an action? like forgiving God!
---Andrea on 9/9/07

1) Helen...I totally respect your opinion and I usually agree with what you say...but on this issue, I have to stand by what I said. Yes, it's true, I have had to work on forgiving myself, but I've also had to work on unforgiveness issues I had against God, like I said, not that God did wrong, but I blamed Him, was resentful and angry at Him and had unforgiveness and bitterness towards God. So I have to forgive God for "those perceived things" that I had resentment towards Him for.
---Holly4jc on 9/9/07

2) There are times that we get offended and "perceive" that someome has done us wrong, even if they didn't. We still need to release forgiveness, even if they really did nothing wrong. We forgive to free ourselves from the bitterness. The forgiveness I am speaking of is more like definition #2:

Forgive (definition)
1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.), absolve.
2. to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies.
---Holly4jc on 9/9/07

3) Throughout most of my life, I DID feel God was my enemy, like He was not there for me because as a child I would cry out to Him to help me and nothing changed...sad but true. While it's true, He really wasn't my enemy, I was very resentful of Him and had alot of bitterness towards Him. But...I know different now...thank the Lord. :-)

Perhaps we are really talking about the same thing but from a different perspective.

Be Blessed Helen...and keep up the good fight!!
---Holly4jc on 9/9/07

Holly4jc - I read your posts and the forgiveness you speak of is forgiveness of yourself, not God. God never has and never will do any wrong, so it is actually impossible to forgive Him. We are the ones needing to be forgiven for being angry at God. I stand guilty, not God. I see what you are saying, but it is a distortion of Scripture and therefore a false teaching. :-)
---Helen_5378 on 9/9/07

If Andrea must know, to avoid Dicto simpliciter, the pentacostals I knew, raised around were part of the 'shepherding movement' in southern Ca. Even most fundamentalist here condemn it.(google it) In general, when thinking of pentacostals think of the perennial religion, dionysus specifically.
---MikeM on 9/9/07

After you've been through the forgiving process a few hundred times it gets easier. Its actually really hard to tell God when we're angry with Him bc He is God. but He already knows - no sense in trying to hide it. Like a 3 yr old that kicks their Dad. He may not be amused but neither is He surprised.

Forgiveness is something we do to free ourselves.
---Andrea on 9/8/07

1) Helen...I must say...I agree with Andrea and understand where she is coming from regarding "forgiving God". are right, God does not NEED forgiving, but some of us NEED to FORGIVE God because we have been angry and blamed God for things in our lives. We need to forgive God for our own sakes, because when we are angry at God or are still blaming God for circumstances in our lives, if we do not choose to let go and walk in forgiveness towards God, it keeps up a barrier that is...
---Holly4jc on 9/8/07

2) ...between ourselves and God. Sometimes we blame God for things in our lives, whether they are real things that have occurred or things we have perceived were God's fault. I know this is something I still am working on, having come out of such an abusive childhood, with the satanic abuse and all. I still struggle at times with forgiveness towards God and understanding how a loving God could allow me to be born into such an abusive household with abusive parents.
---Holly4jc on 9/8/07

3) So...there are times that I get angry again with God for that (usually when He is taking me through some healing process and I get angry at having to go through more emotional healing) and I need to forgive God, once again, for the things that I replay in my mind that I have blamed Him for in the past. So...forgiveness of God is NOT because of what God did or did not do, but it's for me...holding anger against Him for whatever reasons. May we ALL walk in forgiveness, towards others, ourselves and God.
---Holly4jc on 9/8/07

MikeM - this sounds like you about Christian (pentecostal) churches..

Dicto simpliciter (sweeping generalization) This is the fallacy of making a sweeping statement and expecting it to be true of every specific case stereotyping.
---Andrea on 9/8/07

Jana, You make my point specifically! That is an ad hominim attack. not dealing with the issues themselves.

If I need professional help, its with some weight i have gained, I have gained a few pounds, I need to be compative with fat foods!
---MikeM on 9/8/07

the bible was never set in verses. In the late 4th century, catholic bishops gathered and selected from a large compendium, those books they felt should be coalesed into a book. That became the canon, which remained until this day, only altered by Luther who decided the holy spirit had been faulty and encluded too many.
---alexia on 9/8/07

MikeM: All generalities are false.
---jerry6593 on 9/8/07

Andrea - ("you need to forgive them so you can forgive God.") -- God never has and never will need forgiving because He is perfect. Only sinners need forgiving.
---Helen_5378 on 9/8/07

Welcome back brother NikeM!
You've come back in exactly the same combative, angry frame of mind just as you left here! Not that I disagree with you on everything, but I agree with Andrea, you really do need some professional help for sure. God bless you, beloved.
---Jane on 9/8/07

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It is written that we are to stay away from debates and conspiracies. We are told to reason out issues - and that takes knowing the Bible forward and backwards. Not necessarily memorizing verses, but knowing the concepts. The Bible wasn't set in verses until centuries after Jesus was resurrected. I believe learning verses is the downfall of truly understanding the Bible.

Of course, having the Holy Spirit is a great help.
---Steveng on 9/7/07

Counterfeiter magnifico
Tall tale teller virtuoso
Wool pulled over your eyes to buffalo
No truth to tell, stoop way low
---Bob on 9/7/07

I would say that we should respond by stating what we believe and not personally attack a person. We should respect each others opinions and comments, and if we see an error in someone's comment, then we should kindly try to correct, not in a mean-spirited way, but in a way that would glorify God.
---Cynthia on 9/7/07

Mikem - thank you
you still need to forgive your family

unforgiveness allows them to control you still. Like poison you take expecting it to kill them -
My personal observation (pardon my presumption) is you need to forgive them so you can forgive God.
---Andrea on 9/7/07

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Argumentum ad numerum (argument or appeal to numbers). This fallacy is the attempt to prove something by showing how many people think that it's true. In America the dominent form of protestantism is born again fundamentalism, therefore it must be true.-A fallacy as no matter how many people believe something, that doesn't render it true or untrue, numbers are irrelevant.
---MikeM on 9/7/07

Circulus in demonstrando (circular argument). Circular arguments occur when someone uses what they are trying to prove as part of the proof of that thing. An example is when a Muslem says, "The Koran is true because the Prophet Mohemed said so, and Mohemed is a prophet because it says so in the Koran," another is "The Bible is literal because it says in the Bible its literal." True faith does not rely on circular arguments.
---MikeM on 9/7/07

Dicto simpliciter (sweeping generalization) This is the fallacy of making a sweeping statement and expecting it to be true of every specific case stereotyping. One said here, "All those people who are in error have no business being allowed in Church as they may cause disruptions" That sweeping generalization would mean all those who disagree with that blogger's unique theology should not be allowed in his church.
---MikeM on 9/7/07

Non Sequitur ("It does not follow"). This is the simple fallacy of stating, as a conclusion, something that does not follow from the issue, it means changing the subject. I bring up the fact that the Bible quotes a dozen other books, the subject is changed to 'how long' the Bible has remained thre same, even that I should not be quoting those parts of the Bible which is very irrelevant to the issue itself.
---MikeM on 9/7/07

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Petitio principii (begging the question). Example, "We know this is true becase we know its true." Also known as a tautology, a misuse of terminology. Example, "You have not come to the truth because the true is not in you" Say I argue the emporer has no cloths, the one offering the fallacious debate says, "we know the truth of the beauty of the emporers new cloths, but you the unblessed, unlike us just cannot see them."
---MikeM on 9/7/07

Straw man. This is the fallacy of refuting a caricatured or extreme version of somebody's view, or belief. You build op what 'someone else believes' only to tear it down.' Example, I heard bizarre comments here about my religion, sacrifice of children, bizarre beliefs I never heard of, and other 'doctrines' that were clearly made up by those posting them. "Those cults (meaning all non-fundamentalist religions) believe this or that, and clearly thats wrong.'-classic straw man fallacy.
---MikeM on 9/7/07

Holly you really have a nice way about you on these blogs.
I can't claim the same, but I try. I get a little testy with the cults and I get real testy with the Christians who say 'be nice' they're Christians too. I think we're obligated to point out error and doubly so about heresy.

So maybe the rules are as much for me as anyone. Thanks.
---Andrea on 9/7/07

Fallicies in debate fundamentalist use,
Argumentum ad antiquitatem- (tradition) The fasllacious notion that a beliefs longevity gives it credibility. The problem is the RCC is the oldest of 'traditional Christian' religions, therefore if tradition means true, they are most right. born againism is only 100 years old, yet as fundamentalist they claim to be right, often claming to be the most 'traditional' of Christian beliefs.
---MikeM on 9/7/07

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Argumentum ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has presented an issue, rather than the issue itself. This fallacy fundamentalist here use more than anything else. It destroys credibility more than anything else. Examples, "You disagree with us, you need professional help" or "your in a cult so your wrong anyway." those are prime examples of ad hominum fallacies.
---MikeM on 9/7/07

I like what Andrea says and also the Moderator. I would like to add my observation that sometimes the blogs get completely lost when one 'word' is isolated and discussed. The entire question is lost and it becomes a debate over an unimportant 'word'. Then personalities are attacked and it is a mess. I have spent allot of time reading such blogs trying to sort things out only to find my time wasted.:)Satan loves to distract,divide and conquer.:) Have love in your heart.:)
---jody_martin on 9/7/07

dianne - I was wondering how long before someone noted that. But we are not all Christians, some of us don't act like Christains, the cults aren't necessarily Christians and some of the Christains are babies.
Thanks for your input. (some of us lose our good nature on these blogs too)

I actually thought somsomething like
1) restrict CAPS - too hard to read
2) limit comments to four successive posts except when really important
suggestions not rules
...CN has some rules posted
---Andrea on 9/7/07

MikeM: Just because SOME do attack, it does not make it right and it does not mean that ALL attack. If they do attack, that is wrong and not Godly.

God bless :-)
---Holly4jc on 9/7/07

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Hollytic-"NEVER attack the person if you disagree with their theology" thats not the way fundamentalist debate, they consistently attack the person, especially when they begin to loose a debate and they do not deal with the issue itself. As to scripture verses, they string them together to create any pet theology they choose.
---MikeM on 9/7/07

I agree...NEVER attack the person if you disagree with their theology, instead use scripture to back up the point you are trying to make. No one should be accusing people of being other people and saying nasty things about them. God knows the truth and knows who everyone is or isn't who posts on this site...let Him take care of those who are playing games and being deceitful. Pointing fingers just takes the focus off of Jesus. Stick to lifting up the name of Jesus.
---Holly4jc on 9/7/07

Andrea - since we are now living in the New Testament and no longer under the Old Testament, we don't need rules!
---Dianne on 9/7/07

I love this website but one suggestion is that people stop accusing other people of using multiple names--ugh! I've been accused by people who think I'm several others and it just gets old fast--distracts from the real issue, to me.
---Mary on 9/6/07

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Remember everyone has a right to what they choose, have respect for each other even if you donot agree with their religion~faith, & for those that are not Christians same rule applies, please do not dishonor our Lord.
*Opinions are just opinions but Scripture is more important.
---Candice on 9/6/07

Refrain from saying you are wrong.

Don't disagree with obvious truths.
Attack the idea not the person.
Quote sources and numbers.
If it is just an opinion, admit it.

Smile when disagreeing.

Avoid bickering, quarreling, and wrangling.
Watch your tone.
Don't win a debate and lose a friend.


2 Timothy 2:24 - And the servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient
---Andrea on 9/6/07

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