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Early Human Fossils

Evolutionist claim so-called- early man fossils really exist, and we hear on different science channels of 'finds' in the Africa desert. Any truth to this?

Moderator - Yes, they have found monkey remains not human.

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"DARWIN TO HITLER"-a natural evolution.

One could say "EINSTEIN TO BOMB, A NATURAL SELECTION," or BIBLE TO CRUSADES, or "BIBLE TO DARK AGES As to Einsteins equation, radiation can kill millions, or kill cancer cells. The Bible can be used to enflame fanatics to kill millions, as my analogy, or to comfort millions. Its what ones does with the Bible, evolution, Einsteins equations, or anything else. Such far-flung analogies are a complete non-sequitors- and preposterous.
---MrEvolution on 10/25/07

God defends His Son.
We will reap a harvest of seeds that we've planted in the hearts of others. The cycle will continue until one day God might say, if that man wants that life so badly, let it consume him.
It's in that very hour, that your words will choose your master.
---Bob on 10/25/07

Either the real Duke disappeared, or the real Duke came forward.
Regardless, the agenda is the same, to sabotage the Gospel of Jesus Christ and destroy faith in the Word. Ambitious, but ungodly.
---Bob on 10/25/07

Steveng "everything written in the bible are facts"
Including, of course the fact that satan took Jesus up to the top of a mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the earth ... even those on the other side of the globe.
Some high mountain!
Why will you not accept that some stories in the Bible are figurative?
---alan_of_UK on 10/25/07


Let's start with the Cambrian explosion. But first, tell me what you think it is. To you is this scientific evidence for Genesis?
---matthew on 10/25/07

Mr. E: "Facts derived from chemistry, biology, paleontology and all the other sciences INDEPENDENTLY confirm evolution." OK, hot shot, name a few scientific facts (not fakes) that "prove" evolution. Explain abiogenesis, the Cambrian explosion, polystrate trees, species transmutation without Lamarckism, and the complete lack of Darwin's postulated current fossil forming layers. When you finish with these, I've got a thousand more. "Facts" indeed!
---jerry6593 on 10/25/07

Let's have an adult and truthful discussion here. First I am not "preaching", you'll know it when I do. Lamarckism: "An organism can pass on characteristics that it acquired during its lifetime to its offspring." I said nothing remotely like this. Lamarck died in 1829. Is the best you can do is falsely accuse me of embracing the ideas of a man dead almost 200 years?
Mutations are rarely beneficial, but sometimes are.
I never said that "drugs" created new species.
---matthew on 10/24/07

Matt: You need to examine your "science" more closely. What you are preaching is the same Lamarckism that Darwin believed, i.e. the inheritance of acquired characteristics. Mendell disproved Lamarck many years ago. The DNA of the offspring is not altered by the activity of the sire - unless you want to talk about mutations - which are always harmful and never beneficial to the offspring. New bacterial species are not "created" by drugs. The weaker strains are simply weeded out.
---jerry6593 on 10/24/07

matthew: "Bob, Fact: "...All statements in the Bible are not facts, or at least cannot be proven..."

On the contrary, everything written in the bible are facts. INCLUDING PROPHESY. Prophesy are facts yet to come. OT prophesy, spoken of hundreds of years before the event, became fact. The end-time prophesies are facts being unfolded. Fact: OT prophesy were 100% fulfilled. We know now that the prophesies to come will be 100% fulfilled.
---Steveng on 10/23/07

Number Three

Survival of the fittest refers not exclusively to competition for survival within a species but more importantly between species. Thus cooperation and taking personel risk for the benefit of the group (altruism) is a survival behavior. Hunters banding together to kill a large and dangerous animal is the classic example.

Such cooperative behaviors allow members of a group to eat, live, and reproduce better than a lone individuals.
---matthew on 10/23/07

Number One


As so many others you reject evolution based on what you believe it is. I would like to address two of your claims: the first being that changes in species are a products of random chance, and second that the phrase "survival of the fittest" precludes such things as altruism.

As far as love of beauty, there is no evidence that animals do not love beauty, much less are not capable of love. If my cat can love me, why can't he love the scent of a rose?
---matthew on 10/23/07

Number Two

Traits that help a species survive and reproduce are carried forward to the next generation.

Evolution can be seen in yesterday's news. There is a staph bacteria that last year killed more people than aids. This bacteria once vulnerable to drugs has evolved drug resistance strains. Most bacteria were killed by drugs, but a few with drug resistant traits survived, reproducing to create a untreatable drug resistant strain. The only thing random is a few bacteria didn't die.
---matthew on 10/23/07

Lorra: With all due respect, I couldn't care less what the Catholic Church says about Darwinism. You must decide for yourself whether you are a special creation of a loving God or an accident of random chance. If you choose to believe Darwin, you must be able to explain the evolution of the human spirit, altruism and love of beauty - concepts counter to the survival of the fittest. On the other hand, you might just want to scrutinize the so-called "science" in Darwinism.
---jerry6593 on 10/23/07

Are you a catalyst or sponge?

One way of living will kill you and the other will let you thrive in this toxic time.
Paul's definitions are sobering true definitions of today.
"They have lost the power to feel goodness, love and gratitude."

It was said of Napoleon, "He lost the power to think a decent thought."

The people who know their God will be strong.
The catalyst sees that what is in them is more powerful that what is going on around them.
---Bob on 10/22/07

More people than ever are falling away, men will hate the gospel as never before.
The Bible says, the great issue is not what has happened in the past or what's going to happen, but what kind of person are you in these times?

Christians must have respect for the dangers of the day. "Learn as if you will live forever and live as if you will die tomorrow."
---Bob on 10/22/07

Bob, Fact: "something that has really occurred or is the case." You may believe that all statements in the Bible are facts. That is YOUR BELIEF. All statements in the Bible are not facts, or at least cannot be proven. YOU can treat them as such which leads to confused and disjointed conclusions.
You can quote words from the Bible, but your BELIEF those words does not make them facts.
---matthew on 10/22/07

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I believe in the facts of the Bible.
Evolution is more mule carrying burden.
Your evolution didn't set this captive free.

That which comes from heaven cannot be put out. The power of the Word releases the Christian from all bondage.
Evolution is a dead, toothless dinosaur.
Seeker sensitive evolutionists are playing with strange fire on God's altar. God warns about the removal of the candlesticks, lest they carry it to such a great extreme, they begin crossing gorillas and man.
---Bob on 10/22/07

Example, It is now clear man was in the new world- Chile 25, 000 years ago, evidence derived from VARIOUS sciences applied at an assortment of archeological sites substantiate this fact.
---MrEvolution on 10/19/07

so what?

what are the only ones who deal in facts atheists.
wrong - there are many many christian sceintists who are creationists and there are secular scientists that believe in Intelligent Design
---Andrea on 10/22/07

The early hominid "Lucy" was a fraud. Her leg bone which was human was not found with the rest of the monkey skeleton. David Johanssen lied about this archeological "find" in order to get more grant money.
---K on 10/20/07

Jerry, it is not all that cut and dry. The Catholic Church allows that we do not know everything about creation and we do not know if the theory of evolution is true or not. But regardless of what may come, my Church is firm that we are a special creation formed and blessed by God.

Many Christians who accept at least the possibility of evolution are not chucking out the Bible or God in its wake. Further we denounce those others who try to push evolution beyond what has been proven or not proven.
---lorra8574 on 10/19/07

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Does anyone want to deal with facts?
Facts derived from chemistry, biology, paleontology and all the other sciences INDEPENDENTLY confirm evolution. That is consistent reality. - Rhetorical clichs offered are of no bearing on such facts, they just muddy the water. Example, It is now clear man was in the new world- Chile 25, 000 years ago, evidence derived from VARIOUS sciences applied at an assortment of archeological sites substantiate this fact.
---MrEvolution on 10/19/07

Bob - that was beautiful. Thank you

especially the Jesus is a catalyst
---Andrea on 10/19/07


Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but no one is entitled to their own facts.

If we are to have an adult conversation here we need to use facts to support our conclusions.

It is of course fine to say "I believe...."

But your belief, nor anyone else's, proves nothing.
---matthew on 10/19/07

Scientists define a catalyst as any element that changes everything around it without itself undergoing a change.

Jesus Christ is the greatest catalyst in all of history.

Jesus allows us to go from a sponge to a catalyst in one heartbeat.
A catalytic converter, nature is more powerful than an absorber, sponge.
Evolution absorbs information.
Creation emits the power of God.
---Bob on 10/19/07

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If we were to lay all of the evolution teachers end to end, they would point in all directions. The blind committee describing an elephant.
One grabs the tail and says it's like a great snake, another feels the ears and declares it flat winged like a great bird, another grabs the legs and compares them to tree stumps, one touches the belly and calls it a whale.
They are all correct and they are all wrong.
---Bob on 10/19/07

Bob, you wrote:

"But old dead bones are sponges."


"If you meet a sponge, you will soon hear about everything they have suffered and you will hear..."

What are you talking about? Is this from personal experience?

Shouldn't we keep our comments to what appears to be factual evidence, or at least what we believe to be true, and argue that rationally.
---matthew on 10/19/07

If you meet a sponge, you will soon hear about everything they have suffered and you will hear who or what they blame for their suffering
Sponges believe that life is more about extenuating circumstances than it is about personal choices.

Sponges brood on things that have happened and what hasn't happened. Sponges sabotage.

Sponges use their bad past and a fear of the future to destroy a wonderfully good present.
---Bob on 10/19/07

Let the dead bury the dead. The highly evolved are really into dead bones. Nothing wrong with being an informed archaeologist.

But old dead bones are sponges. They absorb whatever is going on around them.

A sponge downloads its surroundings and allows outside opinions and circumstances to control it.

Sponges believe the whole world is against them. They struggle to see how anything is their fault.
---Bob on 10/19/07

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a natural evolution
---Andrea on 10/19/07

John: Marx got his ideas of social evolution from Darwin. He even wrote to Darwin and asked him to write the forward to his master work - 'Das Kapital.' Darwin got his "revelation" of evolution right after attending a witchcraft ceremony in South America. Quite a pedigree, wouldn't you say?
---jerry6593 on 10/19/07

What Darwin offered was the 2nd biggest lie in modern history-- evolution. (Marx offered the biggest)

None of that is real science. My doctor, the car I drive, this computer is real science. I suspect those bones are fake.Rebury the bones, spend the time talking about scripture.
---John on 10/16/07

(1) Let's boil it down. We "fundies" believe that man is a special creation with life breathed into us personally by the Creator Himself. We trace our lineage directly to God:

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

"Anties" believe that our ancestors were "unclean" animals, and that we have no special preeminance over them. In fact, by this logic, we are but animals ourselves.
---jerry6593 on 10/16/07

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(2) Thus, morality in animals is a mystery to them. But we "fundies" believe the Bible version:

1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

We believe that we are noble, elevated beings of unestimable worth to an all-powerful, non-lying God. Anties believe that the Bible is myths, and we are nothing but a freak of random chance, set adrift in a sea of eternal meaninglessness.
---jerry6593 on 10/16/07

I note those who say Newton, Kelvin, Einstein - 'were all creationists' fail to note not one of these men were anything related to todays fundamentalist.

Newton was a Unitarian, denied the trinity, as did Kelvin, Eienstien, Jewish, was more a deist. Fundamentalist 'creationism' is unique to fundamentalism. Yes, evolution is sceince, uses the scientific method, 'Creationism' is fundamentalist religion.
---MrEvolution on 10/15/07

Those like Mr Bob might learn, (if you want to appear you have a leg to stand on) that is is better to 'attempt' to deal with ideas, evidence, and facts rather than to 'attempt' to refute the individual presenting them. Ideas, facts, evidence, truth all trancend individuals.
---MrEvolution on 10/15/07

Jims points,

A. embryos? DNA blueprinting confirms evolution on a biochemical level, period

2. Pilt down and java were 100 years ago, what is your point?

3.pepperd moth? Again, DNA

4. Lucy, Austripithicus, 2 others, so far have been found she walked upright and the skull- too many cc for an ape.

The evidence goes far far, beyond palentology.

"May be extinct races that didn't make it to the Ark, thus were destroyed in the flood" - your evidence for this?
---MrEvolution on 10/15/07

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"Not all Fundamentalist are whackos" a factual statement as those in cemeteries are not whackos

Fundamentalist definition Dictionary

"We don't understand all the intricate details that transpired in Genesis" nor do I

"Variation and adaptation" is natural selection. I can list transitional fossils - a remarkable fact they continue to exist rather one believes in them or not

"No one REALLY knows how old the Earth is"
God does
---MrEvolution on 10/15/07

My 2 cents...
Christians know that God is perfect.
Everyone knows that science is not.

Science is based on OBSERVABLE and MEASURABLE evidence.
Science cannot OBSERVE or MEASURE what must be taken on faith.
Scientists debate endless theories about what they've measured.
Outside the biblical account we have no other 1st hand testimony to affirm or deny these theories.

Science isn't always wrong but if it's not always right, then how much FAITH should any Christian put in it?
---AG on 10/15/07

The bible says that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and not a gorilla.

---Bob on 10/13/07

There are so many truely awesome mysteries of God to ponder that I cannot understand why man is so absorbed regarding the mysteries of science. To me this is boring. Man or monkey,God knows and the explanation is simple. What about the weightier things like predestination or eternity? That is a mystery. Pastor Larry
---larry9688 on 10/12/07

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Mike M) I have to agree in Total with Bob so I do not need to rewrite his blog. However in regard to your defense of killings done by Muslims, please note that Christians are killing Muslims in mass daily in the middle east. Have you forgotten that there is a war going on and that we are killing Muslims? Don't try to defend the Christian faith as a goody two shoe non violent one because we do stand up and fight/kill. I am a solid Christian but I do not know what faith you are.Can you tell us? Pastor Larry
---larry9688 on 10/12/07

Caleb and Alexia 10/11) Caleb,I agree that "fundies" are the ones who DO see reality. These are the end times and WE FUNDIES know this. We are the ones who have oil in our lamps. We are the ones prepared to say NO to the new order with the 666 chip necessary to buy or sell. We are the ones ready to be killed for our loyality to Jesus Christ. Anyone other than a FUNDIE cannot do that because their beliefs blow in in the wind with every sort of doctrine. Pastor Larry
---larry9688 on 10/12/07

OK, let's talk about scientists. Darwin was no scientist, he was a philosopher. He had no training in science whatever (unless you count his brief stint at medical school before his washout). Real scientists - Newton, Kelvin, Einstein, etc. - were all creationists. Every fossil "discovery" that seems to prove evolution has subsequently been proved to be a hoax. Evolution is no more a science than is astrology.
---jerry6593 on 10/12/07

(2) Thus, the emergence of morality in animals is a mystery to them. But we "fundies" believe the Bible version:

1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

We believe that we are noble, elevated beings of unestimable worth to an all-powerful, non-lying God. Anties believe that we are nothing but a freak of random chance, set adrift in a sea of eternal meaninglessness.
---jerry6593 on 10/12/07

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According to way I was taught to deal with 'scientific' discovery was to gather and sort information with nothing to prove. Go where the information dictated. Today we see 'science' gathering information to support a given theory. Science is not afraid of the truth, unless it has an agenda to prove.
---dan on 10/12/07

1#. MikeM in terms of accepting undeniable evidence that is in front of your eyes MikeM, I do Philosophy and the debate over evolution irrespective of position on Theism is based on faith. Philosophy in my opinion is academic story telling, oh and consequently I don't know about evolution myself ultimately as I have said there isn't incontrovertible facts supporting - nor is there incontrovertible facts disproving it, and thus to believe OR not is based on faith.
---Marty on 10/11/07

#2. But I do tend to believe that the burden of proof lies with proving evolution rather than disproving it. And thus it is based on faith. God may have used evolution to create humanity or not - St Augustine thought the creation story was a spiritual allegory so the possibility of an allegorical interpretation predates the THEORY of evolution.
---Marty on 10/11/07

Scientists are merely men with worldly knowledge. We know that men are evil from the deepest parts of their heart and will falsify anything to prove their point - even to prove evolution as fact. Man's heart will be evil continually at the end times. My suggestion: don't get caught up with this frivolous debate, just do the two commandments Jesus spoke of in the NT and that God spoke of in the OT - which doesn't include believing in evolution.
---Steveng on 10/11/07

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Here again we have someone grossly misrepresenting another's views.
MikeM is accused effectively of being the same as Richard Dawkins.
But Dawkins is a militant atheist, who believe that there is no god and that religious beleif is responsible for all the bad that has happened to mankind.
All that Mike has said is that he believes that God made us using evolution.
Mike is no atheist.
---alan_of_UK on 10/11/07

And also.....
There are many, many highly educated and respected scientist who believe in special creation, are they all wrong? No one ignores any ones "evidence" the issue is really how do you interpret that evidence. from a Theistic world and life view, or some other world and life view. I rather trust God and I will let Him fill in the details for me later. are you, my skeptic friend ready to stand before your creator?
---Jim on 10/11/07

For the life of me I cannot figure out why the existence of fossils is even an issue among Christians. What does it have to do with salvation in Jesus Christ?
---InimicusStultitiae on 10/11/07

Continuing on .....
A. If Macro evolution is true, why lie? the following have all been proven as deceptions
1. Haekals [sic?] embryos
2. Pilt down man and java man
3. the pepperd moth
4. Lucy. a type of chimp that is known to live in that area.
B. other "Man fossils"
1. resemble mostly modern man, so what?
my neighbor looks like a gorilla.
2. May be extinct races that didn't make it to the Ark, thus were destroyed in the flood.
3. Psalm 14:1-3
---Jim on 10/11/07

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I have heard allot of bogus stuff on this blog today. here are some facts.
1. Not all Fundamentalist are whackos.
2. Fundamentalist = One who believes in the fundamentals, basics of his faith.
3. we don't understand all the intricate details that transpired in Genesis. but we are called to believe Heb.11:1,3,6
4. Most "Fundamentalist" believe in micro-evolution, variation and adaptation. "After its kind" Gen.1.
5. No one REALLY knows how old the Earth is.
Job 38:4
---Jim on 10/11/07

MikeM., so monkey bones mean that much to you. Let the dead bury the dead. They're dead monkey bones. In your desperate desire to talk with intelligent life, why not go to the zoo and ask a monkey about it's ancestors? Ask the monkeys if they can trace their lineage back to the lion of the tribe of Judah?
---Bob on 10/11/07

MikeM., if you feel so strongly and everyone makes your skin crawl, why are you still here? Why do you kick against the believers?
If your brilliance is all that, why are you spending all your waking hours on the blogs?
Why aren't you writing a nobel prize winner?
---Bob on 10/11/07

The way I see it, you get away with much railing, ranting and raving. In fact, I think you get away with more than anyone else on here does. Your language is offensive and I have no idea what you believe in. You're critical of the moderator and anyone who doesn't agree with you. Is there anyone out there who would want to be in your shoes? Not me.
---Bob on 10/11/07

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MikeM., who's mind are you trying to change and to what? You don't really believe the bible is true. What do you believe? In Jefferson? If the atheist sites are really all that, what keeps you here?
---Bob on 10/11/07

alexia - if you think your faith in Jesus Christ is just a warm fuzzy it will be for you to explain that to Christ.
---caleb on 10/11/07

given the utterly childish untrue and fantastic response by our so-called moderator, what's the point of discussing it? Fundies can't change their mind, their faith is utterly dependent on ignoring the real world in favor of a fantasy that is warm and fuzzy.
---alexia on 10/11/07

We kicked the Ten Commandments out of our schools. We kicked prayers out of our schools, We kicked God out of our schools. And we brought in Evilution. We also brought in guns, knifes, and bombs.>>>> And Satan.
---catherine on 10/11/07

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rita, Early man fossils are 'as is.' Their objective existance will not be altered by personal beliefs. I see NO conflict between evolution and science, only a conflict between science and fundamentalism, or fundamentalism and everything else. Note all, knowing they did not have a leg to stand on, bailed from the discussion.
---MikeM on 9/22/07

stephen. its not a few scientists, its tens of thousands over several generations. Why the conspiracy? how is it maintained? Im so tired of this childish talk. God gave you a brain, why do you insist on not using it?
---alexia on 9/22/07

Thanks Mike M. You only asked that I name ONE and that you would confront him, so what did he have to say? What you must realise is that it only takes ONE to spoil a generation. Many have come out of universities with their faith shattered through teachings from such as him, and, although he is the only one I named, he is certainly not unique. I hope he is saved one day because he sure won't be an atheist when he's dead.
---RitaH on 9/22/07

Rita, Yes he does, 1 scientist, and there is another, the late Carl Sagan. scientist from all spectrums supporting anything can be found.

Note all bailed from this thread.
---MikeM on 9/21/07

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Well MikeM, I assume that you are too busy confronting Richard Dawkins for me to get back on this, or have you BALED?
---RitaH on 9/19/07

alexia: "...I do think those folks (scientists) can tell the difference between human bones and so called monkey bones..."

Man is man no matter what their title may be - from the President of the United States to the person living in the streets. Man is self-centered, greedy, etc. They will do ANYTHING to avance their cause including trying to prove evolution. Now, you have a small group of scientists vouching for each other, well, you get the point.
---Steveng on 9/18/07

mark, Christian fundies sure have killed in the past and not to distant (abortion clinics)? They are the exact same psychological mind set as has been attested to in several books now. That kind of closed minded, exclusive, male power dominated mindset is present to all fundies. Its in opposition to the tenets taught by their respective prophets.
---alexia on 9/18/07

Alexia, there are great differences between islamic fundamentalist and Protestant fundamentalist. Are protestant fundamentalist killing anyone? Their islamic counterparts want a theocracy, Christian ones do not. Both value ignorance and both are exclusivly dualistic, but until the killing starts I won't worry, too much.
---MikeM on 9/17/07

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moderator as to your statement that all scientists have found is monkey bones? I do think those folks can tell the difference between human bones and so called monkey bones...actually I'm not sure there are monkeys in africa. I think it might be all apes...I'm not sure. Do you have proof of this outlandish claim?
---alexia on 9/17/07

mike, I know fundies are a small number. But fundies are dangerous to our world whatever their persuasion. Its no different arguing about monkey bones or 77 virgins in heaven. Its all deluded and dangerous.
---alexia on 9/17/07

MikeM don't you think that Richard Dawkins comes in that category?
---RitaH on 9/17/07

Alexis_Remember fundamentalism is only a fraction of Religion, or even Christianity.

Rita, Name one scientist, or university that is tryong to 'prove' the Bible wrong. I will gladly confront them.

Trey, Doubt you will respond, are you sayibg science is babbling and false? Explain,

Larra,I agree with Lorra again, 100% Catholics do have a mature stance on science.
---MikeM on 9/16/07

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Why do people accuse others of not believing something is because of fear. I don't believe in evolution, not because of fear, but because it doesn't concern my salvation. I was once an amateur scientist in my own way when I was younger. Science is sprinkle throughout the Bible not to prove history, but to glorify God. Many of the science "facts" in the Bible were not proven until the late twentieth century. Proving again that God made the universe.
---Steveng on 9/16/07

rita it should be embarassing. The same people who bring you electricity bring you evolution and geology. You cant claim them okay on some and not on others because they appear in your limited imterpretation to conflict with a book that doesnt proport to tell us about science in the first place./
---alexia on 9/16/07

Alexia you would probably refer to me as a 'fundie' and, yes, I'm happy that I have electricity and the benefits of medican advances. To say 'they dont want to get caught in a trap of agreeing with science about anything' is quite insulting. The only science that I (and others like me) disagree with is when it is trying to prove that God's word is wrong. We will each be answerable for ourselves.
---RitaH on 9/16/07

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