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Why Mary Was A Virgin

Why did Jesus mother Mary have to be a virgin?

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 ---Curtis on 9/15/07
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judit5787 There wasnt seed of human nature, but Jesus was gods creaton. Word became meet. Like writes in bible, He created earth by word, it was power and life in word, word was God.All people can become again spiritual virgins when receave forgivness of God and start to live new life with His help, grace for forgiving and grace for overcoming.
---judita on 10/2/07

Emcee...the only thing about my coffee break that is over is that recently I found out that Starbucks donates millions of dollars a year to abortion and gay rights, so I am boycotting them. But, other than that...bring on the java!
---Holly4jc on 10/2/07

Holly :: Your high octane Coffee Break is over.
---Emcee on 10/1/07

Well Emcee...I am an American and we are more fond of coffee than tea. I am glad to be compared to coffee (which as you have stated is a stimulant) because I pray that my posts do stimulate people to seek God further and dig in deeper to the Word of God to seek out HIS truth, not man's doctrines or ways. May I be not just coffee...but espresso (high octane coffee)!
---Holly4jc on 10/1/07

Holly ::I purposely said Coffee as it is a stimulant,which I do not Drink I am a tea drinker & a teatotaller,so now you know 2 more truths about me.Honest Injun!!!I guess you love your Java.
---Emcee on 10/1/07

Mary had to be pure to give birth to God incarnate. Jesus' Blood was pure the only way our sins could be forgiven. Jesus was sinless period the only way our sins could be forgiven. If you look around you at this sinful world, you could see and understand what I am saying here.
---catherine on 10/1/07

Andrea, FYI, the Catholic Church NEVER removed the second commandment. It is still in our Bibles just where it belongs and it is even in our Catechism. We Catholics are forbidden to practice idolatry in any form.

And no I am not worried about offending God. How could Jesus be upset with me maintaining communication with other members of His Own Body? It was His idea that we should work together. And it is not like I ever put Mary before Jesus, or in His place.
---lorra8574 on 9/30/07

Andrea, Protestants get more worked up over Mary than Catholics. Sure, there are practices that seem odd, but they are all extra. During the Mass, you will not usually hear a word about Mary unless she is in the scriptures being read. In the official Catechism, Mary is mentioned briefly a few times out of a massive book that is dominated by God and the scriptures. We have some prayers to Mary, but we have books full of prayers to Jesus.
---lorra8574 on 9/30/07

Andrea, much of what Catholics believe about Mary stems from what we believe about Jesus and from what is written in the scriptures. Our view of Mary is not so alien or pagan as you might think, if you ever got to know it.

For example, we hold that Mary is the mother of God, NOT because we think that she is a deity (we don't), but because we believe that Jesus is God, it is just that simple. His divinity was questioned, that is why this doctrine was formed.
---lorra8574 on 9/30/07 sure does perk you up, warm you up and energize you...thanks for the comparison!
---Holly4jc on 9/30/07

Holly:: Your agreement with Rita. Whoopee dooo you both sure do not read to undersand & by Who, You just spout off like Hot Coffee poured from the pot as the handle is too hot to hold.Read my Post again to alan.thanks for your prayers I take Christian Prayers as well, provided its not initiated by U NO WHO,The guy with the arrow shaped tail and pointed horns who infests this Forum nay saying por little ole me.
---Emcee on 9/29/07

lorra- the second commandment - the one the RCC removed - bowing to any form (man/woman) is idolatry.

I don't worry about crowns

do you ever worry that praying to Mary may offend God?

do you concern yourself with Jesus Christ?
---Andrea on 9/29/07

Because she was pure. And God could not have come through a unpure person.
---Bennie on 9/29/07

Andrea, giving honour to the Lord's mother is a lot different from giving honour to a tree that did not give birth to the Messiah, or raise Him, or stay with Him when He died in agony upon the cross.

The Bible says that some Christians will obtain crowns in Heaven, that is one of our goals. I am guessing that you have given up on that idea.
---lorra8574 on 9/29/07

Amen RitaH...I am in agreement with that prayer you said for Emcee. Lord, enlighten him with Your truth!
---Holly4jc on 9/29/07

Emcee, I agree with what Alan said to you below. Those shoes of yours might be comfortable now but will lead you to destruction if you continue to give Mary something that is not her due. You say "its no shame if realisation suddenly comes upon you". That's true and I hope and pray that realisation (of the truth) will come upon you. Suddenly or slowly it doesn't matter but I trust you will get that realisation soon.
---RitaH on 9/29/07

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some of the crowns put on these Mary statues are jewel encrusted.

the bible says we are not to bow to any thing made in the likeness of man/woman or beast - the pope knows this and you defend it

some day he'll defend it to the lord

if I go outside and crown a tree- pray to it and bow to it - well you can pretty much be certain its worship

call it what you want - its still worship!

think of the Israelites and how they burned incense to other gods - how did God react?
---Andrea on 9/28/07

Alan OF UK:: I understand & know where you are coming from.The shoes I use are mine suitable for my walk & discernment in this life.They do not pinch & comfortable.Every one must seek diligently and its no shame if realisation suddenly comes upon you But Pray & seek we must Till the Divine Lord sees from above "Is he for saving"then you get that call or else you go with the flotsam & jetsam.Of course this is my active mind rambling.
---Emcee on 9/28/07

Andrea, Pope JPII did dedicate his Pontificate to Mary. Now, if a hospital board decides to dedicate the hospital to a beloved volunteer and perhaps even name the cafeteria after her (with her photo and a plaque) - does the hospital cease to be a hospital? Does the mandate to heal change? Does this affect the ownership of the hospital in any way? Or how it is run? The answer to this is NO. So if we can do this in the secular world without the label of idolatry, why should the rules change with Mary?
---lorra8574 on 9/28/07

Andrea P2: Now as for the statue, and your scripture quotes - one, Catholics do not think that Mary is a goddess, two, Catholics do not believe that the statue itself has any powers, three, the Bible goes to great lengths to show what true idolatry is and your examples alone do not cut it - The Bible has shown that statues are not in themselves a sin, nor is bowing - it is the intent that matters. God looks at the heart.
---lorra8574 on 9/28/07

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She was a virgin because she could not be spoiled by being with a man. That was the miracle that He was born of a woman who had no prior time with a man and so God overshadowed her and LOVE was conceived in her. The awesome thought of it. She a young woman who was chosen by God to bring into this world the savior of the world. So much love that we can't even understand it all. She found favor with God and He used her for us. Cool.
---marge on 9/28/07

Andrea:: You should know me by now I am firm at times But Never slur a lady I treat women with respect as they are the models of womanhood.some have called me coward but that is how I was brought up & feel.I have a co assistant peeking over my shoulder, besides daughters and Grand daughters, now great Grand to remind me of my mission and station.
---Emcee on 9/28/07

Emcee you wrote : Andrea:: hear you go again making False charges

so you didn't call me a liar you called me a falsifyier (that is a liar) but I'll let you off the hook - I apologize if I took it wrong and your forgiven if you meant it wrong
---Andrea on 9/28/07

Emcee ... Yes Mary submitted to God's will to become Jesus' earthly mother, and thus was the woman who fulfilled the prophecy.
I don't bash her at all for doing that.
But Jesus isGod and our Saviour, and we can talk to Him direct.
---alan_of_UK on 9/28/07

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Andrea:: If I used the word of which you accused me of, then I will apologise, otherwise My dear you owe me one.reread my post of 3 lines. What seems to the eye is Often a misconception, which you are prone to seeing.You are not being nice.
---Emcee on 9/28/07

Andrea::What Fr O'Brien writes or states is true positively because That is what Jesus commanded "Do this in remembrance of Me"'so what is your pointWhat has that got to Do with Negating the mother of her and THE Creator. which is what this blog is all about.YOU and a few like you still insist this is whats Happening .But God knows HIS Will,will be done,inspite of your deliberate forced on misconceptions.Your folly your it is written let it be done!!
---Emcee on 9/27/07

Emcee - why do you call me a liar - I quoted scripture and showed you where you could see the Pope bowing to a statue of mary. Like it or not it was not a lie!
---Andrea on 9/27/07

Holly4jc::My heart really goes out to you the indignities you have suffered at the hands of your most trusted Guardian.I cannot use the legal word as he did not qualify.You are trying to get back from the POH but obstincy is not a characheristic that I recommend neither does Christ."Heaven is made of Such as these "refering to child like disposition-acquiesence,which is devoid in your make up.but that is for you to find out & seek from Almighty God,This is the reason for my ??marks.
---Emcee on 9/27/07

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Alan of Uk:: The root as you say is the incomprehension of a statement in Gen3:15 Here let me explain my thoughts."Almighty God reprimands Satanfor destroying His creation,Eve.Does he change His plan NO he introduces another womanBut reverses her introduction.Instead takind woman out of Man he takes MAN(his son) out of woman his creation.This makes them one unit.which he indicates by saying "I shall put enmity (separation)between YOUR seed (in Mankind) & her seed which was Jesus.
---Emcee on 9/27/07 have got to be kidding me.
---JIM on 9/27/07

#2Alan of UK:Those who follow J & M are now one unit.Herein lies the tussel between Good & Evil so Mary is the Go between good & evil,that is why she is bashed on these blogs, guess by who?God is still God .This position she accepts when she says "be it done to me according to your word"That is the concept of all Catholics in the RCC,My concept too.
---Emcee on 9/27/07

Fr O'Brien writes: The priest pronounces the words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from his throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the victim of for the sins of is greater than the power of the Virgin Mary: Mary was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate, a single time, the priest brings Christ down from Heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man -- not once but a thousand times!
---Andrea on 9/27/07

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Andrea:: hear you go again making False charges.In the Queens or Kings court,all bow to her office does that make her an idol or a false God by your same deduction.a drowning woman cluthes at a straw but the outcome is enivetable.They call it protocol.
---Emcee on 9/27/07

Alan Of UK::I do not desire to question or correct your thoughts but just to bring you in line with My line of Thought.Hence the use of the word friend.Having triplicated your reply I agree Sin has been overcome byGod In as much as the Gates of Heaven are again open.The fight is between Good & evil.
But this not make salvation available to all and sundry,but only those who obey His word & seek perfection,and DIE in HIS GRACE.
---Emcee on 9/27/07

lorra - inplainsite has pictures of the new Pope bowing before a statue of Mary and dedicating his office and the entire church to her.

Deu 5:8 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

Deu 5:9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
---Andrea on 9/27/07

"On this universal level, if victory comes, it will be brought by Mary. Christ will conquer through her, because He wants the church's victories now and in the future, to be linked to her" (John Paul II, from "Crossing the Threshold of Hope").
---asia on 9/27/07

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Helen you are so right...Jesus Christ did not have a "part" in all of God's plan...He was the main event...we are the ones who have "parts" and that includes Mary. God does not NEED us to do anything, He is fully capable of doing whatever needs to be done without us. He CHOOSES to use us and include us in HIS plans. We are given the honor to serve HIM, not the other way around.
---Holly4jc on 9/27/07

Mary was highly favored by God to be the woman to give birth to God. It was not the actually birth that was so amazing anyways it was the conception. God chosed Mary. Mary was a virgin. Mary loved God. Mary wanted to please God. She accepted and obeyed God. Mary was indeed higly favored by God. What is so complicated about all of this? God knew what He was doing. This is all I can say about Mary at this time. Except she was pure. Knowing God she had to be pure. The mother of God.
---catherine on 9/27/07

Emcee ... All I can say is that I used the word "seems" because that is the impression your words give ... that you reagrd Mary as being the person who used Jesus as the tool to conquer Satan.
But that gives the wrong emphasis ... it was God (who is Jesus) who planned the salvation, and used Mary to bear jesus earthly body.
---alan_of_UK on 9/27/07

Emcee ... I'm not sure why you query my use of the idea that Jesus has defeated Satan, because that followed yuor use of theb same concept.
But how is this? ... Jesus overcame sin ... He has already won His war with Satan ... and made salvation available foe man.
But as you say, there are still battles ... for individuals. Unlike some, I do not claiom that Satan is dead, nor that God controls what satan does or even "permits Satan to do things
---alan_of_UK on 9/27/07

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Emcee ... I'm not sure why you query my use of the idea that Jesus has defeated Satan, because that followed yuor use of theb same concept.
But how is this? ... Jesus overcame sin ... He has already won His war with Satan ... and made salvation available foe man.
But as you say, there are still battles ... for individuals. Unlike some, I do not claiom that Satan is dead, nor that God controls what satan does or even "permits Satan to do things
---alan_of_UK on 9/27/07

Emcee ... Jesus overcame sin ... He has already won His war with Satan ... and made salvation available foe man.
But as you say, there are still battles ... for individuals. Unlike some, I do not claiom that Satan is dead, nor that God controls what satan does or even "permits Satan to do things
Satan still rampages around trying to destroy and claim souls .... so the battle rages.
But the war is won, because Satan canot achieve his war paln of enslaving the whole of mankind.
---alan_of_UK on 9/27/07

Emcee .. the root of our difference appears to be that you say "she shall crush your head" whereas my Bible says "her seed shal crush your head"
Your version seems (to me anyway) to say that Mary is the important one, and that she used Jesus as her tool to fight with satan.
---alan_of_UK on 9/27/07

Andrea, not according to the dictionary. But to be more politically correct. Catholics ask Mary and saints to pray for us, not worship her or them.

And there is a difference between dying for something you know to be true, and something that you cannot be certain about. The martyrs died knowing that Christ had already come and died for them. Mary risked her life for an Angel she could only hope was from God.
---lorra8574 on 9/26/07

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Lorra8574 - ("Helen and Andrea, there is no denying the importance and necessity of Christ's part in this.") -- Jesus Christ did NOT "play a part" in anything. His whole purpose of coming into this world was to be crucified on the Cross for the sin of the world. It is clear you do not know Him.
---Helen_5378 on 9/26/07

1) Lorra...I was brought up Jewish (my mom's side) and also forced into a satanic cult by my dad. I suffered satanic ritual abuse as well as having been forced into a blood covenant with satan at a very early age. I was impregnated by my dad to bring glory to him within the cult and for him to move up in position. I am telling you all this to say the following: when I gave my life to Jesus, I took a very big risk. I was afraid to tell my Jewish family because as far as Jesus goes,
---Holly4jc on 9/26/07

2) well I might as well have signed up with Hitler. And the satanic side, the fact that I had been GIVEN to satan by blood covenant and now I was in a new blood covenant with Jesus, well...I can't tell you how many nights I was literally tormented by actual demons in my room, doing everything to me from trying to kill me to rape me, all because I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. They tormented me a million times more AFTER I gave my life to Jesus than before. Yet I did not give up or turn away...
---Holly4jc on 9/26/07

3) ...from Jesus, no matter how terrifying my demonic experiences were. Satan does not take it lightly when one who was given to him in covenant leaves his kingdom...maybe he goes after the 1 and leaves the 99, just like Jesus. To go from his camp over to his enemy's camp (Jesus) really, really makes him angry and he comes at you with a vengence, more so than if you had not been in a blood covenant with him. So...I know what it's like to do the "hard" thing and say "yes" to Jesus...
---Holly4jc on 9/26/07

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4) ...and risk my can never know how terrifying it is to have demons tormenting you and you feeling like they can kill you at any moment. It's not an easy thing to endure, holding onto Jesus no matter what the devil throws at you. I hope no one else ever has to go through it. Many take risks serving Jesus and saying "yes" to God's calling, but through it all, it is only by the power of the Holy Spirit and the strength that God gives us that we make it through, just as Mary did. :-)
---Holly4jc on 9/26/07

Mary risked her life - many matyrs gave their lives for the gospel - over 5 million at the hands of the RCC

and the attitude that protestants don't regard Mary highly is wrong

we still don't worship them.

Remember them - yes
be grateful to them - yes

what you pray to - you worship
---Andrea on 9/26/07

Helen and Andrea, there is no denying the importance and necessity of Christ's part in this. But, if you understood the risk that Mary took with her Yes, you might appreciate that what she did showed the ultimate faith in God. It was no easy task and few women would have done it under those conditions.
---lorra8574 on 9/26/07

Lorra8574 - "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:19). This verse speaks of firstly Adam, then Jesus Christ who is the Second Adam. The only thing Mary did was say yes when the angel told her she would conceive the Son of God. You constantly put Mary where she does not belong.
---Helen_5378 on 9/26/07

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No mention of Mary

Rom 5:15 ...For if through the offence of one many be dead, by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 5:16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 5:17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus.)
---Andrea on 9/26/07

Amen Catherine....there is NO SUCH THING AS LUCK! I've heard quite a few times that the word "luck" comes from the name "Lucifer". I have not researched it, but for any of you who have some free time, that would be an interesting investigation. My pastor in NC used to say "when people say they have had 'good luck' what they don't recognize is that it was really 'God's provision unrealized'".
---Holly4jc on 9/26/07

Alan, I would like to point out that sin entered the world through disobedience, and it was Mary's obedience that allowed Jesus to enter the world (His plan, not ours or hers) to redeem us. It was necessary that a human woman should undo what Eve had done by being faithful, just as it was necessary that a human man should be obedient unto death to undo Adam's sin. Jesus fulfilled the greater part and is our redeemer, but He chose to do this through Mary.
---lorra8574 on 9/26/07

Alan of Uk::I explained more often than Not Jesus is our Saviour. He shows us the way. Jesus never will entertain sin.He abhors sin.He saved himself as a Man,yes! Asks us to follow Him.Many have not got that concept as yet.Jesus is our salvation bc he shows us the way to avoid sin,given us aids called sacraments to nourish us.You may continue to think I am wrong.But that is for you to find out,which you will I called you friend so you do not fit into the rabble.Man has to vindicate Himself.
---Emcee on 9/25/07

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Alan of Uk::I made some comments to you on25/9in this posting. Maybe in the importance of the discussion you have overlooked them.Please review them & give me your thoughts.
---Emcee on 9/25/07

Since when has God created someone or something and it is called a stroke of luck. Please give more respect to my God, Creator.
---catherine on 9/25/07

1) Lorra...I have never dismissed Mary as "nothing". I have stated quite a few times how I admire her, that she was an amazing woman of God and that I can only hope to be as obedient to God for His will for my life and be as faithful as she was. I just don't worship her, bow down to statues of her or pray to her..or as you say...ask her to pray for me. I do not communicate with the dead ever. I have never, ever dishonored her....I totally respect and admire her.
---Holly4jc on 9/25/07

2) I just don't dwell on her like those in the RCC do...I dwell on Jesus and what He did for me, who He is in my life and in being as obedient to Him as possible and allowing the work of the Holy Spirit in my life to convict me and change me where I need to be changed. As far as Eve goes, being the "mother of all humanity" was no stroke of luck, it was all in God's perfect plan. And since all humanity did come through her,
---Holly4jc on 9/25/07

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3) then technically...Jesus came through her womb down through the ages...her womb birthed generations that would eventually birth the Messiah, through Mary's womb. Without there being an "Eve" there would be no humanity and hence, no Mary and no reason for Jesus to have been born. That is of course unless Eve refused God's plan and God had to create another Eve...but I sincerely doubt that would have happened, for God knows the end from the beginning.
---Holly4jc on 9/25/07

4) He knew exactly what was going to happen in the Garden of Eden before He even put Adam and Eve there. Nothing surprises Him or takes Him for a loop. He knows it all. :-)
---Holly4jc on 9/25/07

Alan of Uk :: My friend "Seems" is a word of appearances used by you twice in the same post.It is your conclusion.You forget Jesus wasGod +man on this earth.Mary was fully earthly created by God for His express purpose.If Satan had been defeated as you say then why is mankind looking for salvation Why is there sin in this world why are we asked to follow commandments.Lastly The prophecy has Not been fulfilled "She shall crush your head"Mary is Jesus Foot soldier as you so aptly put it.
---Emcee on 9/25/07

Holly4JC, it is ironic that the sinner, Eve, is recognised as the mother of all humanity by virtue of her being first. This is a great honour than only Eve can claim, even though this honour has nothing to do with anything other than being the first woman - a stroke of luck.

But when it comes to Mary, so many dismiss her as nothing - as if she played a role no different than any of us play. True, Catholics do use her as a role model, but none of us can claim to be mother of the Messiah.
---lorra8574 on 9/25/07

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Emcee ... You did say this "It is said that sin was introduced to this world by woman(EVE)and sin will be eradicated by a woman"
Now that seems to be very much the same as "Mary vanquished Satan"
But it is Jesus who vanquished Satan (or eradicted sin) not Mary
Your words Emcee seem to give Mary a much greater (even the dominant) role than Jesus in our salvation. Maybe you don't mean to, but that's the impression given.
---alan_of_UK on 9/25/07

Emcee ... # 2 Now Lorra says, "What we believe about Mary does not take away from what we believe about Jesus, for without Him, she was nothing at all" ... that seems OK, but then she also said "It (presumably she means our salvation) could not have happened without Jesus, but He chose do accomplish it through Mary"
That is surely unscriptural. Please Lorra, tell us you do not mean that Jesus used Mary to be our Saviour. Because that it what you seem to say!
---alan_of_UK on 9/25/07

Emcee ... # 4 I doubt we will ever meet in this life, but suspect that when we do meet, we will find we have both been right, and both been wrong, and will be able to laugh about it.
I am sure that we will find that this issue is minor alongside the Great Truth that we both share.
Our relationship, Emcee, does not need to be healed. I am happpy, however wrong I think some of your views are, to call you Friend and Brother.
---alan_of_UK on 9/25/07

Emcee #5 You say "You know fully well I have always defended Jesus Mother against the rabble"
I make no attack on Mary, and you will remember I have defended her very vigourously against those who would allow only to be a rent-a-womb.
Please note what I said to you earlier "Mary was a marvellous woman, blessed by God, and a blessing to Jesus for being a great mother, and to us for being His mother"
---alan_of_UK on 9/25/07

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Mark V, do you not believe that Jesus is the Word that was in the Beginning with God and was God? Of course Jesus predates Mary, He created her. He chose her to be His mother from all humanity and came into our world through her. Nothing that Catholics believe denigrate Jesus in any way. But some do not understand the importance we put on Christ.
---lorra8574 on 9/25/07

Holly4JC, it is true, because of Christ's death on the Cross, we are each redeemed and have the opportunity to say "yes" to Jesus, instead of "yes" to sin. But it was Mary that God chose to give birth to the Messiah. It was Mary that the Angel appeared to. And, it was Mary that said "yes". She could have said no, and that would have been a sign that we were not ready to be redeemed, but God knew that Mary would say yes, but did not force her.
---lorra8574 on 9/25/07

Alan Of Uk::Here is a thought for all especialltythose who believe that Faith is the only means of Salvation.Q what condemns us to Hell -Our Sins .what is our sins -Our denial of Gods word-if so in the face of Denial does God condemn or do You condemn yourself.So your control over sin is the answer to your salvation.then why say your sins are washed away by His death on the cross If that were true Sin would NOT exist any more but it does!!Who makes you believe the opposite?Ans Satan & helpers.
---Emcee on 9/25/07

Alan of Uk ::It seems this long standing discussion, has not healed .We each have an opinion. If you think You are right so be it.You have got to believe what you must. Its Your choice.Our up bringings are on different sides of the fence.I will always be a Catholic & defend its teachings,which are by Matt16:17-19Peace be with you Friend.
---Emcee on 9/25/07

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Helen ... There is no "at last" about it. I have always argued with Emcee about the unduly high regard paid to Mary by the RC.
Where I have supported RCs is against lies told about them and their faith.
The honest argument is much more convincing that one which introduces lies, even though it might not initially be so dramatic, it has more lasting substance.
---alan_of_UK on 9/25/07

Alan of Uk::Friend where did I ever say "That Mary beat satan"or to use your word "Vanquished Satan. making Jesus a foot soldier"That sir was your introduction.I stated & Reaffirm that the prophecy was "GODS" Douay Rheims Version.This post was about Mary why do you adroitly change the venue.You know fully well I have always defended Jesus Mother against the rabble.Does this make her a God or a FOOTSOLDIER.
---Emcee on 9/25/07

Alan of Uk ::It seems this long standing discussion, has not healed .We each have an opinion. If you think You are right so be it.You have got to believe what you must. Its Your choice.Our up bringings are on different sides of the fence.I will always be a Catholic & defend its teachings,which are by Matt16:17-19Peace be with you Friend.
---Emcee on 9/25/07

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