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Must Infants Be Baptised

Can anyone tell me what's really wrong or unscriptural about baptizing infants in the Roman Catholic Church if, based on 1st Corinthians 7:14, the faith of a believer can make his or her child Holy in the yes of God?

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Start here. No mention of baptism an any of these scriptures. (Or in the context of the verses.)

Matthew 10:22
Matthew 24:13
Mark 13:13
John 3:17
John 10:9
Acts 2:21
Acts 16:31
Romans 10:9
---denna7667 on 10/13/07

Pastor Larry, if you knew all that the Catholic Church taught about baptism you would not make such a silly claim.

Of course we understand the full implication and purpose of Baptism - The Bible discusses it at length, only the mechanical process of baptism is left to tradition. Total immersion is still considered to be the most beautifully symbolic method of Baptism in the Catholic Church. We are just not so legalistic as some out there, when practicality requires other methods.
---lorra8574 on 10/11/07

I have done my own research and I have read the whole chapters. I repeatedly give you specific scriptures to back up my beliefs. YOU REPEATEDLY respond in general with NO specifics and NO scriptures to back up your claim. If you want to make a point then fine. But please back it up with a scripture and your interpretation of that scripture so I know what you are thinking. Otherwise you are just wasting my time.
---James on 10/11/07

i am aware that it is a common error of the Catholic Catholic Chruch to Baptize infants thinking that if they die that they will not go to hell. Well, first of all, baptism has nothing to do with salvation and secondly, one needs to be aware of the meaning of being emersed in water and rising to life in Christ to benifit from obedience of baptism. Pastor Larry
---larry9688 on 10/11/07


If you are that familiar with the scripture then all I ask is you do your own research and see. I also ask IF (no accusations here) you have not read the whole context and meaning of the WHOLE chapter please do so.

Also I ask you to be careful what you accuse other people of, or peopel of not doing before you make accusations.
---denna7667 on 10/11/07

Denna, typically this age is about 7 years old - it is usually when a child reaches a stage in his or her development where they can distinguish between right and wrong and understand what this means. A four year old can be told that something is wrong and can parrot the rule back to the parent, and when he or she remembers, will even follow the rule. But prior to the age of reason, they really do not understand why something is wrong or prohibited and are not capable of reasoning it out.
---lorra8574 on 10/10/07

Denna P2: Children operate largely on instincts and reflexes that gradually wear off as intelligence matures. Of course, some special cases never reach proper maturity, and some do not even reach the age of accountability.
---lorra8574 on 10/10/07

Your arguments make no sense. Mark 16:16, Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 2:38, Acts: 22:16, Acts 19:3, Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12, 1 Peter 3:21. There are plenty of scriptures. It's hard to take them out of context when they all say the same thing.
---James on 10/10/07


What is the, "age of reason"? Or as some call it the age of accountability?
---denna7667 on 10/10/07

Trey, the answer is no unless they also die as infants. They must still be confirmed by expressing their faith in Jesus when they are old enough. In between, their parents speak for them. At baptism they are redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, but all Christians regardless of when they were baptised, must fulfill their end of the covenant - this means believing in Jesus and following Him.
---lorra8574 on 10/8/07

Trey, P2, one thing more - between infancy and the age of reason, Children born to believers are holy and therefore do have their own connection to God and do follow Him because they cannot really choose to do otherwise. I have heard stories of atheists brought back to God by their young children who believed without even being instructed. Even one such case on this site.
---lorra8574 on 10/8/07

Have no care about any false religions mimicings of the real Christian way, for all their false ways are vanity.
---Eloy on 10/8/07


You will never convince me that baptism is requirement for salvation because you cannot show me where it is biblical. You can take a verse(s) out of context but it just will not "wash". You must compare scripture with scripture.

All baptisms were performed after belief and not to be a show off or being prideful as you seemed to present it. If you should not to be prideful why go to a public worship service?
---denna7667 on 10/8/07


You and I can argue this until the cows come home. I am of the belief that water baptism never has or never will wash away the first sin. The only liquid that can wash away sin is the blood of Jesus.

If you are saying it is required then it required by all. There are no special instances or exceptions. It is either required or not, if in fact as you say it is a requirement.
---denna7667 on 10/7/07


Quick question: Do all people that are baptized as infants go to heaven?

I'm not looking to argue, I would just like to know your opinion.
---trey on 10/7/07

I was specifically referring to your comment about "all people requiring baptism including old testament saints". Also, baptism is not for the purpose of showing off to the public but rather for the purpose of salvation. The jailer's family was baptized in the middle of the night. The Ethiopian was baptized in the middle of nowhere. These were not baptisms done after the fact. All Biblical baptisms were done at the point of faith for the purpose of salvation, not as public display.
---James on 10/7/07

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Trey, regarding Mark 16:16. I would point out that if we do not believe, then being baptised does not save us. It was not necessary to mention what happens if we are not baptised. Of course, my Church also teaches the Baptism by desire - if someone truly believes but dies before they can be baptised, Jesus can make up for that. We are not punished for what we cannot do.
---lorra8574 on 10/7/07

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The only REQUIREMENT for baptism is BELIEF.

Concerning INFANTS:
John 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, ..., wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand,...?
---trey on 10/6/07


God states that infants can't understand the difference between their right hand and their left. Do all of these infants believe in Christ?

CONCLUSION: Baptizing of infants is error.
---trey on 10/6/07


You will not fnd anywhere where I said "you should not be baptized", so be carfeul what you accuse me of.

Baptism is a public profession of faith and yes it signifies the death of the old self and the rising of the new person. Which we all should do as an act of obedience.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.
---denna7667 on 10/6/07

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1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
---Matthew_from_LA on 10/6/07

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved,
Both are needed!
All people are called to be baptized. That is why Jesus order the Disciples to go out and preach the Gospel and Baptize in the them.
---Lisa on 10/6/07

You may have read parts of the Bible but you obviously don't understand it. If you UNDERSTOOD the Bible then you would know that baptism is participation in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. You can't participate in the death, burial or resurrection of someone if they haven't died, been buried or resurrected. So if you have to ask if someone in the Old Testament was required to be baptized then it suggests you need to read your Bible more.
---James on 10/6/07


Let us look at, Mark 16:16:

"He that believeth" For one to be a true believer one has to have been born again of the Spirit of God. We are able to believe when we have faith. Faith comes from the Spirit of God (Gal. 5:22).

"and is baptised" It should be a "given" that all those that truly believe in Christ take up their cross and follow him in water baptism. Sadly many of God's people don't.
---trey on 10/5/07

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"shall be saved" This is a statement of assurance. Who are those being baptized? Ans.: True Believers.

"he that believeth not shall be dammed" (Notice that not being baptized is not mentioned.) Here are some that have the gospel revealed to them. They see it and reject it. They hate it. Would you say these are wicked?

1 Peter 3:21 Peter states that baptism does not put away the filth of the flesh. Is is the answer of a good conscience.
---trey on 10/5/07

Andrea-Mima - isn't it a wonder that you can read the same scripture and get one thing and someone else and it says something different.
Its especially difficult since the RCC can push water baptism so strongly it matters to your salvation and then they don't even want to get wet.
I'd think if you were going to be so particular you'd try to stick to scripture.

Don't you mean it's a wonder that they have Scared Scripture and Scared Tradition and all we have is the Bible alone!
---Ruben on 10/5/07

Lorra 1
For the sake of common sense then be careful what you say.

I am just repeating what many have said here when you say you must be baptized does that exclude any body?

Using your way of saying it then if Jesus said it then that must include everybody.

For the sake of your conscience be careful what you say and teach.
---dena7667 on 10/5/07

Lorra 2
Matthew 8:16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed, and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.

So again using your theology does that mean that Jesus healed just handful of the people in this instance & not all? Should they have used the words not many. Or is this one of those not literal but figurative? Once again you can't have it both ways.
---dena7667 on 10/5/07

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Denna, do you think that is even sensible - even the Bible did not use "all" with that level of eternal absoluteness.

Have you never once used the word "all" in a sentence? Did that apply to everyone living and dead from all eternity?

For the sake of your conscience, I will restate that all Christians following His resurrection must be baptised in order to be saved - because Jesus said so (Mark 16:16).
---lorra8574 on 10/5/07

Betty & Lorra,

Many claim ALL must be baptized to get into heaven, as has been stated. As the saying goes ALL is ALL and that's ALL. If you are saying ALL that has to include the Old Testament saints.

I making the point when people say ALL they should either be more careful or be more specific.
---denna7667 on 10/5/07

The old testment people were under law not Grace that was a different dispantion they were judge under the law
---Betty on 10/4/07

Yes Andrea IT is truly amazing. When I think we have here is a saved Catholic. Very rare but because of family or spouse are some other reason they find themselves defending positions that downe deep they know are wrong. Hence their views have to be a little bit twisted. Of course that's just my opinion.
---Mima on 10/4/07

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Denna, what does the New Covenent requirement for baptism have to do with those who died while the Old Covenant was still in place??? No where in the Bible does it say that this requirement is retroactive any more that we gentiles are required to be circumcised.
---lorra8574 on 10/4/07

I want you all to know that baptism is absolutely imperative for one to go to heaven! In fact if one is not baptized they will surely go straight to HELL!

I'm not talking about water baptism. The theif on the cross was never baptised by water, but he was by the Holy Ghost (Matt. 3:11, Acts. 11:16, Matt. 20:11). All God's children are baptized with the Holy Ghost when they are regenerated, or "born again".

Lord bless each of you,
---trey on 10/4/07

My BIG problem with baptism being required for salvation is that you are going to leave out a whole lot of saints from the Old Testament. Does that mean people like David, Solomon, Noah, and Moses just to name a few are not in heaven? That's really sad because I sure was looking forward to talking to them. If you say required that means everybody.
---denna7667 on 10/4/07

Mima - isn't it a wonder that you can read the same scripture and get one thing and someone else and it says something different.
Its especially difficult since the RCC can push water baptism so strongly it matters to your salvation and then they don't even want to get wet.
I'd think if you were going to be so particular you'd try to stick to scripture.
---Andrea on 10/4/07

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Mima, once again you have misssed an important point of scripture. The story of Cornelius was a sign, not proof that water wasn't necessary - Peter stated that because this occurred, no one could deny them water for a proper baptism Acts 10:47-48. Water Baptism was required according to Peter, he commanded it. If the Holy Spirit had not been given first, some would have questioned the right of Gentiles to be included in the new covenant, just as some would later demand that they be circumcised first.
---lorra8574 on 10/4/07

---James in the story of Cornelius the sign of salvation is given before anyone was baptized thereby proving once again that baptism is not necessary for salvation. Although you did not intend to James you have proven my point.
---Mima on 10/4/07

If you read all of the story of Cornelius you find that the reason God did this was to prove to Peter and the Jews who still were requiring circumcision that salvation was also granted to the Gentiles.
---James on 10/3/07

Yes, I have read it VERY carefully. Paul's whole point was that faith was not enough to allow you to receive the Holy Spirit, which IS a sign of salvation. That is why they received it at the moment of baptism.
---James on 10/3/07

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A slow close reading of acts 19:1-7 will show the reader that Paul calls these people believers. And that what Paul is inquiring about is the receiving of the Holy Ghost. Actually the receiving of the Holy Ghost does not require baptism. But it certainly does require believing. Witness Peter's witnessing to the house of Cornelius.
---Mima on 10/3/07

James - Surely if they were Baptized in the Holy Spirit they were saved pre-water baptism. Please explain bc I've always seen water baptism as an act of obedience not a requirement of salvation.

Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. ...
---Andrea on 10/2/07

You are wrong. The bible SPECIFICALLY refers to baptism as participation of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12 specifically state this. The thief on the cross is a terrible example for you to use. First of all Christ had the power to DIRECTLY forgive someone's sin. And secondly when Christ forgave the thief, he had not yet died, been buried or resurrected yet. So OF COURSE he wouldn't have needed baptism.
---James on 10/1/07

Read Acts 19:1-7. Then explain to me: If baptism was not required then why did Paul ask about it? If it was not required why did he tell them they needed to be baptized again? Why did they not receive the Holy Spirit when they believed? Don't you think it strange that these people believed but didn't receive the Holy Spirit until they were baptized into the name of Christ? Why go through all of that trouble of faith alone was enough?
---James on 10/1/07

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James - a gift is something you recieve not that you must do anything for. Its part of why the reformation was fought. And one of the ways some churches control people bc its always be baptized the right way too.

Baptism is important it just not a requirement for salvation. Ask the thief on the cross.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
---Andrea on 10/1/07

I know Christian parents who have kids who are in their 20's and 30's and are not Baptized yet! Yikes! This is very strange.
As a Christian parent, it is the duty of the parent to bring their child up in Christ and teach them the value of being Baptized! What a crying shame for these children!
---Lisa on 10/1/07

I was baptized as an infant. I believe and have faith! In fact,because I was,I know God has kept me close not far from Him. Combined with Sunday school classes, confession,communion and confirmation.....we really don't get a chance to drift from God. From the day we are baptized,our Parents vowed to teach us/raise us with God always! Our Parents trust in Jesus and teach us to. I remember being 5yrs old-knowing Jesus-about my baptism,believing and loving the Lord!
This has never left me since.
---Lisa on 10/1/07

For those of you who keep saying that baptism is a "work" and therefore is not required for salvation obviously have not read the entire new testament. Please show me ONE verse in the bible that states baptism is NOT necessary. Please show me ONE verse that states that baptism is an "outward sign of an inward grace". Jesus criticized the Pharisees SPECIFICALLY for "acting spiritual" and showing off for the public.
---James on 9/30/07

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Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
---Andrea on 9/25/07

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee ...God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased, and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
---Andrea on 9/25/07


Yes I preach and the gospel, yes I have laid hands on the sick and they have recovered, yes I have baptized people in Jesus name.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do,

I have total faith in Him and Him alone. Zechariah 4:6...`Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD of hosts.
---denna7667 on 9/25/07

denna7667: "I believe you have been mislead and deceived. But I have faith..."

No, Denna, it's you that have been mislead. You only believe. You know of God, but deny his power. Faith on the other hand is in the power of God through Jesus Christ working through you. If you had faith, you would be working miracles greater than Jesus. You would be walking up and down your main street healing people and baptising them. You would have faith in accompishing many things by the will of God.
---Steveng on 9/24/07

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denna7667: "I'm saying you need to compare scripture with scripture and not take one verse or a part of a verse out of context..."

For over thirty years, I've been teaching that the Bible does more harm to today's Christian than if the Bible wasn't written in verses. Sure many verses can be taken out of context because they can stand alone like in Proverbs. But many more are from the stories like what causes depression or the falling away from the faith.
---Steveng on 9/24/07


Also let me put it this way there is a HUGE difference between believing and faith.

I believe you have been mislead and deceived. But I have faith in Jesus Christ and His atoning work on the cross for my salvation.
---denna7667 on 9/24/07


Maybe I should have used the word "theology" with the word "belief".

There is a denomination I know of that builds a theology/belief in substitutionary baptism on the following verse.

1 Corinthians 15:29 Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?...

I'm saying you need to compare scripture with scripture and not take one verse or a part of a verse out of context and say, "see this is what it all means."
---denna7667 on 9/23/07

Allow me to put it another way. If believing is all it takes, then Satan would go to heaven. Satan believes that Jesus was born and resurrected, but you will not see him get baptised. He would melt like the wicked witch of the north in the Wizard of Oz.
---Steveng on 9/23/07

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denna7667: "Problems begin when some take one or two verses and build a belief on that."

Not necessary a belief, but an answer from God to solve a problem. This is what happens when you take verses out of context. Praying to God (who doesn't listen to sinners) for help, randomly opening the Bible for an answer, randomly pointing to a verse hoping that it will solve the person's problems. Then doing what it says.
---Steveng on 9/23/07

The more important thing is to go by what Christ example was which is to get baptised at an age that you are accountable for knowing the relevance of salvation/Baptism.
---Carla5754 on 9/23/07

Denna, believing in Christ is an action and therefore a work, is that to much for you too? Baptism is most certainly a sacrament and by extension also a gift. No body has to accept a gift, it is entirely optional. Salvation is optional.

If someone gave you a Porche for your birthday, would you feel hard done by if they did not also provide you with a chauffeur to drive it for you?
---lorra8574 on 9/23/07

I can understand why some are not certain that infants should be baptised, but how can so many be confused about Baptism being required - were the numerous scriptures concerning baptism and why it was necessary and what it did for us, not enough? Was the Fact that Jesus said we must believe AND be Baptised not sufficient to convince you.

What ever happened to Sola Scriptura? Has the Bible become irrelevant?
---lorra8574 on 9/23/07

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I dedicated both of my babies because I don't believe any infant has enough knowledge of the gospel to make a declaration of their salvation. They haven't even learned to talk for goodness sake. My faith in Christ may save my babies by me praying for them not by going through some ritual. When I dedicate them to the Lord, that is just one of the many times I pray for them. Baptism is a decision that is left up to the individual, not the individual's parents.
---Michelle on 9/23/07

Denna::Works is something YOU do. Jesus left us sacraments as AIDS which enables us to stay in His grace we recieve and partake of His sacraments.If you have difffficulty listening tome listen to LORRA.Most sacraments are administered by Priests.
---Emcee on 9/23/07

We follow the Christian way, and not other religions like catholicism. Nevertheless, having a holy child born from holy parents is not the samething as baptizing a child. Baptism is a Command for all to do, for all flesh, and the whole families: men, women, and their children.
---Eloy on 9/23/07


I should be clearer in my reference to checking with other denominations. The vast majority do not believe baptism is mandatory. In fact I hard a hard time finding one that would admit it and backing it with more than one scripture.

Problems begin when some take one or two verses and build a belief on that. If that's the case take Matthew 27:5 "he (Judas) went away and hanged himself." Then take Luke 3:11" let him do likewise." Laugh, but some do this.
---denna7667 on 9/23/07

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Baptism is not a "gift", a "sacrament", and and it certainly is not a "grace".

Gift = item you are given and don't have to do anything for

Sacrament = a visible sign of an inward grace

Grace = unmerited favor

It is a physical act which makes it a work. If it a requirement for the removal of sin why did Jesus do it?
---denna7667 on 9/23/07

Changing the vocabulary does not change the facts that works/sacraments/gifts/etc are not a requirement for salvation. They may be a blessing but not a requirement.
---Andrea on 9/22/07

Denna, who told you that Baptism was a "work"? It is a sacrament, a gift, a grace given to us by God for our own benefit. But if Jesus was not clear enough for you, I do not know what will convince you. I would rather go by the Bible than by some man's tradition.
---lorra8574 on 9/22/07

denna7667: "I have talked to different denominations and got their interpretation"

Ah, there's your problem. You depend too much on what man says, what books says. Denominations are nothing but man's interpretation and man's traditions and man's rules. Try allowing the Holy Spirit to work through you for guidance. You may have "studied" God and the Holy Spirit, but you deny their power.
---Steveng on 9/22/07

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I belive you have it has be shown you ignored my last statement.

"If you believe there is some work (baptism) to do then you doubt His work was sufficient to cover your sins."

You can us any translation you desire that adds words to make it read what you belive and that is fine with me. Baptism is still a work that is not necessary. Never has been and never will be.
---denna7667 on 9/22/07

Denna::Titus3:says"He says He saved us not by works of Righteousness but by His mercy through the water of His rebirth & renewal of the Holy spirit"(ie before we became christians)Then read #8, I desire that you insist on these things that those who have come to believe in God,may be careful TO DEVOTE THEMSELVES TO GOOD WORKS etc.Then, 9"but avoid stupid contravercies about the Law.I believe you have had your admonition so I leave you to your devices,but Read 10-11.
---Emcee on 9/22/07


As is stated in may other blogs, "Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done...", of which baptism is a work. It is by faith in Jesus Christ shed blood.

When I am sitting next to Jesus in heaven I will be sure to ask Him about this. If you believe there is some work (baptism) to do then you doubt His work was sufficient to cover your sins.
---denna7667 on 9/22/07

Trey, what in the Bible makes it unclear to you that we are born again when we are baptised? How is it that you do not connect the "washing" of regeneration with water Baptism? We are born of water and the Holy Spirit - both are required, and we see plenty of examples of that. Water is symbolic, but as Paul reminds us, it is not for the cleansing the skin.

See Ephesians 5:26, washing of water by the Word = He is the Word and we are baptised in His name.
---lorra8574 on 9/21/07

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I thought I was being clear and I knew exactly what I was saying, "baptism is not a requirement for salvation." I am not convinced that it is. I have talked to different denominations and got their interpretation and only a very few have the belief it is. In my study and from Holy Spirit discernment it is not a requirement. It is a public profession of faith and identifying with the death and resurrection of Christ.
---denna7667 on 9/21/07

Denna:The clarification for Baptism and confirmation was given in good Faith to you Betty & whoso ever read the post.This is the truth with Theological Value.Your acceptance or denial Plus your interpretation rests with You .Its as God says believe me & follow IF you want eternal life.The choice is yours.
---Emcee on 9/21/07

Denna, I am sorry if you thought I was being condescending to you, I was only trying to put it clearer because you did not seem to grasp where your own words had gotten muddled.

And it is not I that says that Baptism is necessary, Jesus did. And while we are each entitled to our opinions, it is only really His that counts.
---lorra8574 on 9/21/07

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