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When Is The Rapture

Pre-tribulation rapture or post-tribulation rapture? Bible verses please.

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 ---mark_B. on 9/17/07
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Kings/Chronicles - As in the gospels we find the same story or incident, each giving unique details which are important for us to have and which serve the particular purpose of each inspired writer, so with Kings and Chronicles. The differences are to be attributed to the different emphases and particular purpose the Spirit has in mind in guiding the individual writers. It is clear that Kings is more clearly a comprehensive divine history of the two kingdoms, summing up that history at its conclusion. Chronicles, is more of a selective synoptic picture of the history of Israel at one glance, summing things up as a prelude to the future at the time of the reestablishment of the Jewish state.
---kathr4453 on 6/27/08

kathr4453: "...Elijah, where in scripture was he brought back 10 years later to deliver a letter/message?

This is a long explanation, but to begin read 2 Chronicles Chapter 21. Remember: time was based upon who was king.

"And concerning the Transfiguration of Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah....was not a "vision" "

Jesus himself said it was a vision and ALL visions in the Bible are of a prophetic nature, a time of a future event.
---Steveng on 6/26/08


I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture, however I am not dogmatic about the topic as there is so much yet to be fully understood on end-time topics. The orgin of the pre-rapture theory comes from Jesuit Priests and then to Darby in the 1830s. The theory was used to attempt to get the Protestants to stop leaving the Catholic Church and to take the focus off of the Pope as being the Anti-Christ. The harm is many Christians believe that if they missed this rapture then they get a second chance to live for Christ. Big mistake.
---Moderator on 6/26/08

Moderator, I don't think you believe in the pre-trib rapture, correct?

Do you believe in mid-trib or post-trib?

What happens if you believe in the pre-trib rapture, to cover all of the bases?

What's the harm in going sooner? I don't believe the devil can rapture anyone, do you Moderator?
---Donna on 6/26/08

John, Jesus is GOD, and I hardly believe WE are greater than God!

I totally disagree that we can raise dead bodies from the grave. That is sorcery, witchcraft because one would have to summons that person's soul and spirit from either IN CHRIST or in hades to unite the soul with the body AGAIN . I know Jesus is not going to give up anyone who has gone to be home with Him, AND Luke clearly tells us that the dead cannot comeback to WARN the wicked of a literal HELL.
---kathr4453 on 6/26/08

kathr4453. The appointed once to die does not teach that no one can die twice. The wages of sin is death and that was once appointed so we all die. It cannot be a teaching that no one can be resurrected from the dead because that would also discredit the dead that Jesus and his disciples raised. I'm sure that Lazarus died twice or he'd still be with us. The miracles that Jesus did, we also do and "even greater."
---john on 6/26/08

Hebrews 9:27
27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

YEP! That certainly puts a damper on Benny Hinn and Company claiming they have raised the dead....
---kathr4453 on 6/26/08

StephenG, Now concerning your interpretation of Elijah, where in scripture was he brought back 10 years later to deliver a letter/message? Never heard that one before. Just because you read that about Philip, it doesn't apply to Elijah or Enoch. Was he out delivering mail too?

And concerning the Transfiguration of Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah....was not a "vision" as was given John in Revelation. No one was carried off or caught UP somewhere, Jesus ...not a vision, came down off the mount. What they actually SAW in reality was the Deity of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 6/26/08

Well, it doesn't actually say that Enoch was alive with a resurrected body, after he was translated out of this life. Where did his body go?

Ones say the dead are "forgotten", yet we are remembering them, every time we say they are forgotten (o: I'd say God remembers them better than we do (o:

"But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (1 Timothy 5:6) So, one can be dead but conscious.
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/26/08

You know that there are some people that believe that the two witnesses of Revelation are actually Enoch and Elijah. Their death at the hands of the wicked would fulfill Heb 9:27.
---Bill on 6/25/08

So why was Jesus with Moses and Elijah in the vision?

Moses and Elijah are symbolic figures (as in all prophetic visions in the Bible) that stand for the "Law and the Prophets." Moses was the law giver and Elijah was the great prophet. Jesus is the fullfillment of the "law and the prophets."
---Steveng on 6/25/08

kathr4453: "...but what about Moses and Elijah standing with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration...?

ALL, and I do mean ALL, visions in Scripture were prophetic in nature, something to take place in the future. Jesus said, while leaving the mountain, "Tell the vision to no man" (Matthew 17:9)

Where are they now, or Enoch?"

Like all men, they are dead. It is appointed for ALL men to die once (Romans 5:12,14, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, Hebrews 9:27). Moses (Deuteronomy 34:5-6). Elijah and Enoch? Them, too, but not directly. (Hebrews 11:5,13) Search for the meaning of "he was not" and "be no more."
---Steveng on 6/25/08

kathr4453: "Where are they now, or Enoch?" Part II

Elijah was moved (translated) to another location for a purpose (to deliver a letter ten years hence). And then died of old age. Phillip (of the New Testament) was also translated (Acts 8:39,40). He, too, was caught up into the first heaven. And then died later like all men.

See also: John 3:13, John 1:18

The Bible and the Holy Spirit has the answers for ALL your questions, you need to search and ask. Don't rely on what I said, search the Scriptures yourself.
---Steveng on 6/25/08

Stephen G, but what about Moses and Elijah standing with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration..and Jesus talking to them?

There were EYE Witnesses to that. Where are they now, or Enoch?
---kathr4453 on 6/25/08

Second, there is nothing new under the sun. No one in history was ever raptured. Jesus himself said no one has ascended into heaven. Neither Moses or Elijah will be the witnesses. God even says that he buried Moses in a valley. I suggest reading a phrase dictionary telling the many ways to say that a person kicked the bucket, bit the dust, he flew on the wings of the wind to the happy hunting ground, etc.
---Steveng on 6/24/08

Third, Every time there was a catastrophe, Godly men and women were not raptured, but were protected by God while still on earth. Noah and his family, David and his friends, the Israelites during the plagues, etc. The Christians during the tribulation period will be protected the same way by the mark of God. All humanity is in the same boat and will experience the same thing, but Christians are protected.
---Steveng on 6/24/08

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I will refute that in a moment through God's own words> But first. What will be the reaction of a sin-sick society when millions of people suddenly disappear. [might call out the F.B.I] Millions of Christians, I hope they are not being overly zealous with this millions, will reach heaven without dying. On to your question>>>Post tribulation, praise God, is refuted by 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and Revelation 3:10. Good day+
---catherine on 6/24/08

Rhonda, picture a jig- saw puzzle with 1500 pieces in front of you. Picture the top in a clear blue sky. Now picture a mountain in the middle dividing the sky on the right and on the left. All blue, correct? But can you force all the blue to fit, just because its blue? Or does each piece have a very specific place..unforced?

Paul laid the foundation, so we dont need to re-lay that foundation, but he said, be careful how you build on that foundationsome wood, hay and stubble, some Gold Silver and Precious stone. The FORCED pieces are WOOD, HAY and STUBBLE, and will burn!
---kathr4453 on 6/24/08

Philippians 2:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Leaving GLORY for you and me He says:
John 17:
4 .. I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Psalm 102:16
When the LORD shall build up Zion He shall appear in His glory.
---kathr4453 on 6/24/08

...misguided opinions ...lot of false interpretation on this site but THIS has got to be the most amazing twisted understanding of Gods Word

I find only those who are anti-semitic refuse to believe or see or OBEY the Truth of Romans 11. The god of this words, Satan, has blinded their eyes to God's plan of redemption, including the re-birth of Israel....The WOMAN in travail(birth-pangs) is someone who is about to GIVE BIRTH.

This does not describe the Church, the Bride of Christ, (Hidden with God IN CHRIST) or anything Paul teaches in the Pauline Epistles. This event comes AFTER the two witnesses of Rev 11. THAT has not happened YET!!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 6/24/08

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Rhonda, No the WOMAN in Revelation is ISRAEL

...misguided opinions ...lot of false interpretation on this site but THIS has got to be the most amazing twisted understanding of Gods Word

Israel is being protected now?

How absurd
...all throughout the NT the Apostles (through their direct teaching from Christ) are teaching and warning CHRISTIANS

If one has been held hostage to false belief that Israel is being protected during the tribulation then that persons idea of salvation through Christ is a one big hoax ...NOTHING to stand on in Christ if Christ is going to protect those who have NEVER served HIM

God protects His people those who obey Him ...not disobediant Israel NOR the sinner
---Rhonda on 6/23/08

Phil_the_Elder: "This another subject that has been beaten to death previously."

As Christians, we need to be patient to the newly born Christians, weak Christians who has asked the same question since the beginning. As for myself, I have heard the same questions hundreds of times for the past 40 years. And with patience, I answer them until the newly born or the weak Christians have a full understanding in it.

Allow me to put in my two cents...
---Steveng on 6/23/08

Although this is a frivolous debate, but if you must, let's reason this out.

First, There is only One Judgement Day, not two. If people are raptured at the beginning, judgement has been pronounced, because the Christians were taken and the evil people left on Earth. But it is written that both the tares and the wheat will be harvested at the same time.
---Steveng on 6/23/08

kathr_Good Job!
W/O a doubt the Woman(The 3rd of Israel)W/12 stars(12 Tribes of Israel 144,000) is the 3rd of Israel that remains alive during the 1st half of the AC's reign & flees to that place in the Mts.
Their they wait on the Lord to come in all his Glory.
He comes at what's left of the AC's 7 yr. reign to set up his 1000 yr Reign W/his Bride, the 3rd, the 144,000, the beheaded that worshipped NOT the Beast or received his Number or Name on their hands or foreheads.

Read 20th ch. of Rev.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/23/08

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Rhonda, No the WOMAN in Revelation is ISRAEL, who will flee into the desert as gentile world powers and arrogance persue. Jesus teh Deliver ( Romans 11) will come out of SION.....Heaven.....and ALL Israel willbe SAVED from anti-christ. This is the 2nd coming of the Lord.

Exodus 19:4
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings , and brought you unto myself.

Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle , that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Eagles wings is Israel. Not the Church.
---kathr4453 on 6/23/08

Do you really think that god will allow his sons bride to be harmed

Rev 12:5-7 women is church (bride of Christ) who will flee into wilderness to be protected for 3 years during tribulation just like ancient Israel was protected ...just a few Luke 12:32

...resurrection happens only ONCE at (LAST TRUMP) when Christ returns ....Mat 24:3, 1Corin15:52, Rev 11:15-19

Luke 21:36 ...Christ warned to WATCH ...nothing to watch for in "rapture lie" ...action needed by Israel and faithful bride at end of age ...ACTION is necessary to ESCAPE ...escape is running/fleeing away from ...nothing about escape is passively being "taken away" or "raptured" as the fable goes....
---Rhonda on 6/21/08

Matthew 24:31 & I Corinthians 15:52 speak of the gatering of the elect at the blast of the last trumpet.Rev 11:15-19 records the blast of the last trumpet.The symbolism is beautiful,Kings were always announced by blasts on trumpets & the King of kings' announcement should be no different.Now I do not really believe these are real trumpets becasue I do think that Revelation is a highly pictoral book, & this picture of the King coming for His Bride at the blast of the last trumpet is beautiful.
---Ryan_Z on 6/20/08

There will actually be TWO Raptures. The meaning of the Parable of the Ten Virgins in Matthew has been revealed by The LORD (YAHUVEH) to a holy prophet of the Church (Ephesians 4:11 and Amos 3:7). The First Rapture will be BEFORE the Tribulation. It will consist of the faithful Bride of Christ (YAHUSHUA), NOT the whole Church. The Second will be close to the MIDDLE of the 7-Year Tribulation Consisting of "left-behind" Saints and new Saints.
---Gordon on 9/27/07

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Duane, read the history between Jesus and today, the Bride of Christ has endured terrible ordeals at the hand of her enemies. Physical torture, unimaginable executions, brutality without limits even at the hands of those she tried to minister to.

The trials we face now are worse - but you will not recognise them. Matthew 10:28.
---lorra8574 on 9/20/07

Jack. There is no indication in the wheat and tares parable that the tares are thrown into the fire before the wheat is put into the barns. It just says first separate the tares, and bind them to be burned. Although they are separated first, there is no evidence that the binding and burning takes place before the gathering up of the wheat.
---john on 9/20/07

The only rapture of the church, is the ecstasy the over-comers experience at The Lords return. The words caught up in 1 Thes. 4:17 refers to our being preferred and taken or plucked from our terrestrial bodies and placed within our celestial ones. This occurs post tribulation. 1Thes.4:16>The trump of God is the 7th trump of Rev.>Mat.24:29,30 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..then shall they see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.."
---joseph on 9/20/07

pre-trib. luke 21: 36-
---Duane on 9/18/07

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Do you really think that god will allow his sons bride to be harmed..
read the parable of the 10 virgins,
another good example for us believers,
so be watchful and ready, you faithful servants..
---Duane on 9/18/07

No scripture in the Bible shows me that there is anything in the future like a rapture. Infact,the opposite. We as christians are going to suffer great persecution and be overcome. Rev. blessed is he who dies after the abomination of desolation and they will sit around the thrown of God. All believers now,old and future will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Chrit,for there works(good & bad)at the same time. He is coming with reward.Some will be ashamed and suffer loss(not salvation)and others rewards.
---jody_martin on 9/18/07

According to Jesus, the Rapture comes AFTER the Tribulation, just before the Last Judgement and the End of the World. Read the parable of the Wheat and Tares and His own explanation of it in Matthew 13.
---Jack on 9/18/07

**There is no such thing as rapture of the church. The Post Tribulation has never been called rapture.**

Not quite accurate, Phil. I've seen writings by hard-shell non-dispensationalists, such as Russian Old Believers, referring to the "aerial rapture." "Rapture" properly refers to the gathering of Christ's children at His return. Though I agree with you, the pre-trib rapture is non-Biblical.
---Jack on 9/18/07

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I'm not sure where it is, but the Word says that God will save His own from the coming storms.
The examples, I know for sure, are Noah, Moses and the Hebrew children and Job.
---Gary on 9/18/07

Luke says it best in his 21st chap. 36th verse.
He says to watch and pray always that you
may be worthy to "Escape" all these things that will come to pass...
This was what Jesus said to them just after
he explained the parable of the fig tree to them.
---Duane on 9/17/07

This another subject that has been beaten to death previously. There is no such thing as rapture of the church. The Post Tribulation has never been called rapture. The Rapture heresy was started by Charles Darby in the 1830-40s and has been picked up by various dispensationalist including Dallas Theological Seminary. It is as much false teaching as Islam and Mormon doctrine. If some idiot tries to talk to you about rapture tell them they are false teachers and you have no interest in their lies.
---Phil_the_Elder on 9/17/07

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