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Do We Choose God

Does God choose us, or do we choose Him?

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 ---Cynthia on 9/25/07
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The natural birth of a new baby gives us a clue as to our choosing or not. Does a baby choose to be born? Birth altogether excludes the idea of any effort or work on the part of the one who is born. The same holds true for a Spiritual birth. "It is a passing away from death unto life" And when a lost person is dead, he is spiritually dead to all spiritual things. Not half dead, not one breath. "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin,
---Mark_V. on 10/31/07

#2. and so death spread to all men because all men sinned." Romans 5:12. Did Nicodimus have faith while dead? He had no breath. He rose at the command of Christ. The same holds true for every single person lost. They cannot have faith to wake up from his own death. He needs for the Holy Spirit to bring life into him, in order for him to believe.
---Mark_V. on 10/31/07

Augustine cont'd.
"And I tell you: you are Peter, because I [JESUS] am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ, and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18), not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though, I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church."
---ShaunT on 10/25/07

#4. Linda: more about God, it gives evidence that God is already working in that persons heart. The reason we pray and ask God to bring our children to saving faith is because we know only God can do that. Otherwise why go to God? God has to come to their hearts. When He does, he opens thier eyes and ears, and brings a new heart to them which will love the Lord with all his heart. Sorry to inconvinence you. I hope that you have a great day, Linda, blessings.
---Mark_V. on 10/24/07

Linda: I am sorry if I sounded bad on my answer to you. You are right, you still have your heart. I was speaking of your spiritual heart. Let me say, that I do not convert anyone Linda. Only God can. My duty as a believer is to bring the Gospel of Christ to others. No one know who the elect are. Many have already come to Christ, many have not yet. We don't know who is saved already. Just because a person has been elected does not mean he is saved yet.
---Mark_V. on 10/24/07

#2. Linda: There is many out there who have been chosen by God that are still lost. They still need to hear the Gospel like everyone else. The Holy Spirit brings light to God's Word and with it salvation. Many people will hear and refuse to listen, but those who God has chosen will receive the word with power and they will understand. Every single person that God chooses will one day come to Christ, they will be convicted by the Spirit and they will repent, they will believe by the gift of faith,
---Mark_V. on 10/24/07

#3. Linda: and they will become children of God. Belonging to one Spiritual body where Jesus is the Head of that body. When I answered someone, I don't know if they are saved. My responsibility is to learn as much as God reveals to me and present it to others, if they are saved, they will be edified, if they are lost God will do as He wills in that persons life. If a person gets angry when I bring the truth, it is evident they don't want no part of it. If they seek to learn
---Mark_V. on 10/24/07

Linda this is true, it in no way negates your responsibility as one of HIS creatures to seek HIM. Your jesus isn't lord, by your own words you put man in control of his own destiny and God can't do nothing about it.
Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords
Jn17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3and this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/23/07

As far as salvation goes, every man and woman has been chosen for eternal life. He has forgiven even the unjust while they were still sinners. HE died for all.
---duane on 10/22/07

Let me add: your prayers for mercy for me won't do any good. God has already chosen, remember?
---Linda on 10/22/07

Jesus is Lord.
---Linda on 10/22/07

Sure do appreciate it steven_rem.
---Linda on 10/22/07

Mark V- I've tried Linda's spirit. IT'S the spirit of anti-christ. Let there be no mistake, she is VERY well worded in grammar,BUT!!! HAS NO GOSPEL. I have contented with her about GOD"S promise. She contends man choice makes the diff, NOT GOD"S promise. Faith Eph2:9 trying too deceive the elect coz Rm3:10 puts ALL in unbelief. Linda doesn't even have a theology SHE'S religious and in the wrong religion. Linda, I cry for you... I hope GOD would have mercy on you Rm9:15
---steven-rem7000 on 10/22/07

Mark V from what I have read is speaking the truth. God chooses plain and simple. When man fell in the garden, his heart became at enmity against God whereby he hid from the one he use to walk with. The imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth and only a supernatural work of God can turn him from loving darkness to loving light because men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.
---Shaun on 10/22/07

Mark, I make no claim to any denomination. However, if it is as you say, then why bother to "convert" me through argument to your truth if only the Sovereign God can dispense the light to begin with. And if He has already dispensed the light, I don't need you to teach me anything.

By the way, I didn't leave my heart in another room. It has been with me the whole time. The spirit of my words you cannot hear because of the light you believe you have received.
---Linda on 10/22/07

Linda, if you are born again, you forgot your heart and left it in another room. Your spirit of words, only give evidence of your opposition to any truth. Since what I was talking about was from quotes of Scripture. If your heart was sincere, since we are talking here about the Word of God, not your life or mine or your denomination, you could have given the answer. But that is ok. I hear the same thing from those who are more concern for their denominations then the truth no matter if they are wrong.
---Mark_V. on 10/22/07

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#2. Linda: You are right, what is written is written and cannot be change to fit our theology. God's Word is true. He dispenses His light as He sees fit to dispense, and the amount of it He wishes to dispense. Not everyone has all the light of the truth. That is why we continue to learn. One day we will have it all in light. God is sovereign and still in control.
---Mark_V. on 10/22/07

Mark, what is written is written. There isn't anything I can add to what I wrote. It is simple really, if you read it just as it is written.
---Linda on 10/18/07

Linda, can you be more specific? I have not idea what you are talking about. Can you explain? In other words, gives scriptures and context of what you are talking about, I would be more then glad to answer you. I don't know if you are saying we have the mind of God, or we don't, or we might, or anything else that I might have missed. Peace
---Mark_V. on 10/18/07

Mark, if you are going to use an OT Scripture that utilizes a question, you may want to check with the NT to see if that question has an answer in the fulfillment of the prophecy.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

You have received an unction from the Holy One and ye know all things.
---Linda on 10/17/07

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See 1 Corinthians 2, the whole chapter.

Conveniently enough, you left that obvious new covenant redemptive truth out of your theology. Anytime there is a question in the Scriptures, there is meant for an answer to be found. The Holy Spirit, through Paul, gives us the answer and, when we are tested, we need the right answer, not an assumption.
---Linda on 10/17/07

bartel, alan and others sorry for the upper case words :-(

2Pt1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2Cor13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith, prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates

1st one needs to know calling before their election
2nd you guys don't believe in reprobation
---steven-rem7000 on 10/16/07

Romans8:28 God works everything together for the good to those who love Him, and are called according to His purpose. God, by His Holy Spirit, calls us to Himself for our salvation through Jesus Christ.
---Gail_Cole on 10/16/07

Alan: I'm sorry. I pieced together an impression from your entries on this and other blogs. Forgive my rush to judgement.
Steven-rem7000: You're screaming - and not listening. It all begins with God's call. Individuals answer. I'm sorry about your family.
---bartel on 10/16/07

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#1. Alan" hope it helps you understand what I am talking about.
1. Lost people can come to God when they want, so God is waiting for them, men pulling the strings, not God.
2. Suppose Christians can leave their domain with Christ when they want if they want, men pulling the strings, not God.
3. Men controls the future with their decisions in life, men pulling the strings, not God.
4. God say's, all true believers have eternal life, men say's not true, men pulling the strings.
---Mark_V. on 10/16/07

#6. "For who has known the mind of God the Lord? Or who has become His counselor? Or who has first given to Him and it shall be repaid to Him?" For "of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever, Amen" God is the one pulling the strings, not man. Scripture is centered around God, not men. All glory goes to the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 10/16/07

Alan, I could go on and on but space does not allow it. People have fixed it so well they even believe it. Just look at what you said to me, The fact you say to God, 'yes, we acknowledge you as our Savior and accept you as our king" does not mean that we call Him a puppet." Alan, just saying yes, you are acknowledging He came to you. You did not come to Him. He presented Himself to you, and if He hadn't you would not acknowledge anything.
---Mark_V. on 10/16/07

#4 Alan, and without the light of God's word, you would have never seen the truth. Yet in your believe you feel you came to Him and not He came to you. God enabled you, first giving you life, since you were dead in traspasses and sins. A slave to sin, and He freed you. God gave you the light of Scripture, gave you the faith to believe, granted you repentance, and after all He did, you finally got convicted and said yes to the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 10/16/07

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#5. Alan, That He did this for you and not for everyone. That is what you cannot accept. Not that it is not in Scripture but that you cannot understand why God would do that for some and not all. Because in your opinion, you compromise the Word of God, and no matter what He say's, you will refuse to believe it is He who is pulling the strings. You say, it is not fair. He could not do that. You cannot explain it with Scripture but you are willing to take a chance.
---Mark_V. on 10/16/07

5. God say's, He will sustain you not to worry, men says, not true, men can escape when he wants, men pulling the strings, not God.
6. God say's, you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, men say's, he can unseal himself is he wants, men pulling the strings not God.
7. God say's, "now to him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power within us," men say's, not true, its his own power, men pulling the strings not God.
---Mark_V. on 10/16/07

Davis>>>I liked what you wrote. Have a great day.
---catherine on 10/16/07

God chooses us, God's control over us doesn't allow us to make a choice. If we had the power to choose God then we have the power to defy him, therefore disproving his omnipotence.
---Davis on 10/15/07

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Rm9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
---steven-rem7000 on 10/15/07

markV & steven-rem7000 ...
Do you live under a worldly sovereignty?
If you did, you will know that the best sovereigns are not dictators, and they allow their subjects freedom.
Dictatorial kings become tyrants, and torture any who question them. But that's perhaps your idea of God ... for that is how you say He acts
---alan_of_UK on 10/15/07

Thanks brother Mark V

I also know, I was blind like some of those on here, the reprobate is in the hands of the Lord. I find your witness also true!!

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death, and to the other the savour of life unto life.

And who is sufficient for these things?

Ain't that nothin' but the truth
---steven-rem7000 on 10/15/07

Mark V "They say, we are not robots or puppets, but in the process its ok for God to be the robot or the puppet"
How do you work that out?
It is just as daft as saying "Because you say you are not your friend's son, you must be his father"
The fact that we say to God "Yes we acknowledge yuo as our saviour and accept you as our King" does not mean that we call Him a puppet!
---alan_of_UK on 10/15/07

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#4. "The God of Scripture can only be know by those to whom He makes Himself known." Nor is God known by the intellect. "God is Spirit" (John 4:24) and therefore can only be know spiritually. But fallen man is not spiritual, he is carnal. He is dead to all that is spiritual. Unless he is born again, supernaturally brought from death to life, miraculously translated out of darkness into the light, he cannot even see the things of God (John 3:3) still less apprehend them.
---Mark_V. on 10/14/07

#5. (1 Cor. 2:14). The Holy Spirit has to shine in our hearts in order to give us "knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Cor. 4:6). And even the spiritual knowledge is but fragmentary. The regenerated soul has to grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus (2 Peter 3:18). Nevertheless they argue on and on about their rights, their freedom, and will never comprehend all that God wants to reveal to them. Not even where the glory goes.
---Mark_V. on 10/14/07

#6. Yet God knows all this. Is He allowing them to continue that way? Why does He show Himself to some and not others? It is for His purpose and will. "For He worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11). God is no gainer even from our worship. He was in no need of that external glory of His grace which arises from His redeemed. He is glorious enough in Himself without that. As He says, things are done,"According to His good pleasure" Eph. 1:5
---Mark_V. on 10/14/07

Steven, you have given great passages. I have noticed many will get upset when talking about the sovereignty of God. Others just except what they believe without question. Others say, "are you calling me a liar?" or "how can you say that about what I believe?" many times they want sympathy from others and they do get it from those who believe what they believe. They have been taught the free will theology for years, just as I was, how could they be wrong now, they say.
---Mark_V. on 10/14/07

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#2. Most everyone that argues gives their opinions and not Scripture. They compromise all passages that speak about the sovereignty of God, the condition of men while lost, who saves who, who sustains who, and in the end the glory goes to men. They say, we are not robots or puppets, but in the process its ok for God to be the robot or the puppet. Everything has to fit their believes whether Scripture says otherwise.
---Mark_V. on 10/14/07

#3. What this people don't get is, "that such a God , as Almighty God cannot be found out by searching." He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God." These so call arguements by design by well-meaning people, have done more harm then good, for it has attempted to bring down our Almighty God to the level of finite comprehension, and thereby has lost sight of His solitary excellence.
---Mark_V. on 10/14/07

2Cor5:18 And all things are of God, WHO hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation,

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling (not free will, in bondage) the world (Rev5:9) unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/12/07

alan - I'm with you, but this is an argument that's gone on for 2000 years and one that we will soon enough get an answer to. No sense in letting it make us crazy while we're still here
---Andrea on 10/12/07

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Alan of UK,

Have you ever considered the following verses?

Ro 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Ro 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Ro 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Lord bless you,
---trey on 10/12/07

Did God create man, or did man create God?
---matthew on 10/11/07

If your right on your OWN VOLITION then it is not GOD THAT MAKES US TOO DIFFER it is your choice that makes the difference leaving, everybody's salvation conditionded on their wanting (or faith) to go to heaven and others,WANTING "to go to hell",
sayig that everybody that doesn't EXCEPT (not smart enough or just plane stupid,which nobody does unless regenerated) wants to go to hell
Alan I'm not picking "you out" your not the only one reading these blog?'s and answers
---steven-rem7000 on 10/11/07

Bartel and like minded


back your claims to SALVATION w/GOD"S WORD

IN, CONTEXT,CONTEXT harmonizing scripture w/ scripture
COZ YOUR interpetation is church upbringing or of your own imagination

ps my whole family which are dead face the judgement of GOD

THAT KILLS ME, but it's true Unless GOD is a lier


alan you don't know were i've been BUT GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A
---steven-rem7000 on 10/11/07

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Bartel "He calls, we answer (or choose not to)"
Indeed ... That is what I have been saying.
Why then do you say of me that I do not yet have Faith?
What I find difficult to understand is those who claim that we have no of how we answer, and that if God decides that we will answer "No", he will make us answer "No", and He then will burn us because we have answered "No" in accordance with His command.
---alan_of_UK on 10/11/07

read the proceeding vs's
or you don't believe this either

1Cor2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Isa 40:14
---steven-rem7000 on 10/11/07

Predestination vs. Free Will - an old debate. Created in His image, mankind has free will. But God was, is, and is to come. He calls, we answer (or choose not to). This discussion is a classic example of how important FAITH is. I don't understand (yes, I am educated) but I trust. One who does not yet have faith and yet has extreme intelligence and keen insights (Hi, Alan!), will never feel peace with this question.
---bartel on 10/11/07

God pursues and chooses us. For God first loved us not the other way around and it is by the Father drawing us to the Son that we are saved.
---Gloria on 10/11/07

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steven-rem7000 ... # 1 You seem to address a whole string of comments and scriptures at me, none of which explain why and how it is that you are taking upon yourself the right and power to judge whether others here are saved, and particularly the judgment that I am not saved.
That is for God, and you are not God.
---alan_of_UK on 10/11/07

steven-rem7000 ... # 2 But again you say something which goes agains t your idea of predestination for you say to me "alan your still alive the command is to seek HIM"
Firstly, I have no need to seek Him, for I have found Him already
Secondly and more to the point, why tell me to seek Him? Your beliefs say that I can't seek Him, because He will either choose me, or not choose me, consigning me to Hell.
---alan_of_UK on 10/11/07

Eze36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them, and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
Rom 2:24

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land
---steven-rem7000 on 10/10/07

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/10/07

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29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/10/07

32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Notice the "I" "I will" whom also gives ears to hear and eyes to see

alan your still alive the command is to seek HIM
---steven-rem7000 on 10/10/07

"dead works and former idolatry" do yuo refer?
before coming to faith WE ALL have dead works (fruit unto death) Rm7:5 relgious deeds in the name of god. Idolatry worshiping ANY god other than the true and living GOD.
ALL believers I know (coming out of false religion) repent of thses things when God brings then to the knowledge of Himself.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/10/07

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Recieve the truth about GOD and forsake ALL others
---steven-rem7000 on 10/10/07

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Rm10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/10/07

Alan of UK,
I have not found any "evil deeds" of yours in all that I've read
of yours. The intent of those statements levied against you must
only have been made to calumniate your person. Either that or
in the hopes of "tripping" you to state something out of your
normal character.
---Nana on 10/10/07


Sorry, I missed your question earlier.

1st you make a good point - Rom 3:10-18 Paul is telling us that man doesn't seek God. Natural man is a totally depraved. Unless God draws us we cannot come to him.

Rom 10:20 Paul speaks of a people that sought not after God, but are found of him. You are correct! These people are Gentiles.
---trey on 10/9/07


2Romans 9:15-16 again shows that it is not of man but of God. Rom 9:9-13 salvation is not according to our deeds, but according to God's calling. Both men are sinners, but before they were born God chose Jacob. God loved Jacob and hated Esau. (See also Malachi ch.1) & Rom 9:21-24.

The real question is NOT "Why did God hate Esau?", but "Why did God love Jacob?"
---trey on 10/9/07

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In II Thess 3:1 & 2 Paul asked them to pray he would be delivered from the wicked so that he could preach to the ones that had faith.
Again, 2 different sets of people.

Matt 25:32 & 33 HIS sheep, THE goats.

Also: 1 Thess 1:4, Rom 8:29, Eph 1:4
---trey on 10/9/07

Steveng # 1 Why do you ask me to "listen with sincerity"?
That injunction itslef denies your proposition.
For you claim that I will not hear unless God makes me?
You claim that if I do not beleive it is because God does not let me
---alan_of_UK on 10/9/07

Steveng # 2 For that is the result of what you say ... but you, unlike Mark V, go further and say that because I can't understand those things that you beleive about God, say "You've never repented from dead works and former idolatry"<
---alan_of_UK on 10/9/07

Steveng # 3 I ask again, by what right to you say that? And to what "dead works and former idolatry" do yuo refer? Are you God, to know what my past life has been or what my present one it.
I repeat ... in your personal attack on me, you make yourself out to be God, and that is blasphemy.
---alan_of_UK on 10/9/07

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Rev. 3:20 is not speaking for people to make a choice for salvation. Christ was standing at the door of the Laodician Church, and God was saying, If there is one true Christian in their open the door. That passage in context is about about people choosing Christ. Never was and never will, unless someone wants to make it mean what they want, not what God's word is saying. Please stop spreading untruths. It only confuses the Bible and no one should try to do that.
---Mark_V. on 10/8/07

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord,

because God hath from the beginning

chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/8/07

Eph1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth, even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated (CHOOSEN)

according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the

counsel of his own will:
---steven-rem7000 on 10/8/07

Rm9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh,

these are not the children of God:but the children of the promise are counted for the seed..
11 (For the children being "NOT YET BORN", neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election (CHOSEN) might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,)

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/8/07

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alan of UK
listen with all sincerity
2Jn:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come ANY UNTO YOU, and bring not this doctrine,

receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

No I'm not God, also not partaking of your evil deeds
---steven-rem7000 on 10/8/07

alan of UK
I'm not in ANYWAY being superior, stating bible facts.
what is the simple mess. of Jesus that you heard? I'll will also tell you my gospel which I'm accustomed to preach
1. the publican new he was a sinner, new birth
2. he addresses GOD, so he knew God
3. he also new that only God's mercy in Christ could save him, the new birth caused him to cry out to know
Jn17:3 this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
---steven-rem7000 on 10/8/07

Steveng. You are not God, and should not presume to say whether others are saved or not.
How comforting it must be to you to know that you with your superior understanding of certain words in the Bible are saved, whereas others who have just heard Jesus' simple message, are not
---alan_of_UK on 10/8/07

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