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Creation Museum Denounced

My newspaper says, 'Creation Museum denounced by scientific community.' Should this sway Christians away from Creation Science? Or do Christians need mans secular science in the first place?

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 ---Derry on 10/17/07
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It is funny how only the part of the community that doesn't believe Gods word is in the Media. The rest of us, and there is alot of us, are never mentioned. If I was satan and I wanted to undermine Gods word, I would create a lie that was so extremely polar opposite to His word. And I would sneak in in over along period of time until iy is the norm. Then when people say that evolution is not true and creation is, then it would look so ridiculous. Satan pulled a good one. Oh by the way Satan, God wins!
---G on 12/5/07

It is funny how only the part of the community that doesn't believe Gods word is in the Media. The rest of us, and there is alot of us, are never mentioned. If I was satan and I wanted to undermine Gods word, I would create a lie that was so extremely polar opposite to His word. And I would sneak it in over along period of time until it is the norm. Then when people say that evolution is not true and creation is, then it would look so ridiculous. Satan pulled a good one. Oh by the way Satan, God wins!
---G on 12/5/07

Watching it right now.
Did you hear the man say, "Intelligent design makes people stupid."
MarkMike, was that you?
---Bob on 11/13/07

Intelligent Design on PBS. Tuesday night, tonight. Watch and comment!
---MATTHEW on 11/13/07


There is a show on PBS, "NOVA", Tuesday night regarding this topic. Perhaps we could all watch and comment.
---matthew on 11/12/07

"Call me names, throw sand in my face, and run away." It is tyical of fundamentalist to bail, the exception is for them not to, I have yet to find that exception.

I am told only the secular left, and not the religious far right is dangerious. Thats what I am told.
---MikeM on 11/9/07


You answer was not one of a degreed scientist.

Call me names, throw sand in my face, and run away.

I am not the one conflicted here.

I am just trying to have an adult conversation.
---matthew on 11/9/07

Matt wrote: "As a scientist could you start slowly and explain to us what is meant by "Physical Laws" in terms we lay people can understand?"

"for a degreed physicist with a long career in the sciences, I expected more."

You are self-conflicted. No wonder you can't understand the simplest scientific principles. Matter, energy, forces and all their subtle and complex interactions were CREATED - they did not (they could not) EVOLVE.
---jerry6593 on 11/9/07



Your explanation kinda fits what scientists call physical laws, but for a degreed physicist with a long career in the sciences, I expected more.

Physical laws are human descriptions of how the universe consistently behaves. These laws are derived from observation and tested for validity by experimentation. As such, as experiments become more refined and informed, physical laws are subject to refinement, revision, and possible rebuttal by those who created them---people.
---matthew on 11/8/07



Physical laws do not cause the behavior of the universe, they simply describe it. Physical laws are not discoveries by men on how God operates the universe, they are only descriptive tools used by men to better understand how the universe works.

The Law of Gravity does not cause objects to fall to earth, it simply describes that they do and how they accelerate as they fall.
---matthew on 11/8/07

My point in this is that often, in efforts to debunk evolution and support their own creationist beliefs, some treat physical laws as absolutes, and use them without understanding their meaning, saying that this or that aspect of the theory of evolution is wrong because it violates physical law. You cannot violate something that is not absolute, particularly a theory.

Now on to my next question: Could you please explain the meaning of theory in lay terms we can understand?
---matthew on 11/8/07

OK Matt: "Physical Laws" refers to the measurable, testable way that physical reality operates. Physical reality refers to matter, the stuff you can see and touch. Physical laws, such as Newton's laws of motion, gravity, etc. are a mathematical description of how matter behaves. Was that too deep or should I try again?
---jerry6593 on 11/8/07

what is is argued here (by fundamentalist) is not that God created the earth, or that he may have used evolution, etc, They argue fundamentalism in exclusion of all else, be one a Catholic protestant, etc etc etc. 'All those other groups' may believe 'God did it'- but to the fundamentalist those 'other groups' are as wrong as the atheist.

For President I support Huckabee, when asked about evolution he smartly said "God did it." To a fundamentalist he is in as much error as an atheist.
---MikeM on 11/7/07


Here is part of my post to you:

"As a scientist could you start slowly and explain to us what is meant by "Physical Laws" in terms we lay people can understand? Maybe if you start here we can learn from you. Please don't refer us to the Internet. You can explain this, can't you?"

You mention the term, "physical laws", in an earlier post. I just want to know what you think it means.
---matthew on 11/6/07

Derry: "Denounced by [WHO?] the scientific community" at large, including Christians or just scientist opposed to CS? :)

" day you may find that evolution was by God after all." (Alan...10/17) Rediculous! Why would God use a hit & miss way of creating instead of just making things the way He wants?

Mr. Devolution: Creation is the highest form of science. Technology (technical knowledge) is "linking" your mind to God's.
---Leon on 11/6/07

" was able to invent the wheel (and the internet) without instructions in Genesis." (Alan...10/18)

The internet? Aaaa, that would be Al Gore, right? :)

Intellectual software programs were put into man's hard-drive (mind) by God to be genetically time-released & used as God sees fit. Alan, we just don't figure things out for ourselves, independent of God. That's the devil's lie "in Genesis 3".

God alone is God (Creator, Inventor)!
---Leon on 11/6/07

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Matt: "Ranting does not lead to knowledge, thinking does. Try it out." Good advice, you should try it!

I have no idea what your post about "physical laws" was about and I don't have time to search for it. Repost it if it is that important to you. Or you could just get a dictionary and look it up!

Glad you haven't decided yet. There's still time! Do what I did. Go to a library and see what assumptions are made in radioactive dating techniques. e.g., U-Pb, K-Ar, C14.
---jerry6593 on 11/3/07


Double teaming me with non-science nonsense and calling it science doesn't prove anything but that you have a highly evolved ability to rant using words you don't understand.

Ranting does not lead to knowledge, thinking does. Try it out.
---matthew on 11/2/07


If you don't answer my last post regarding what is meant by "Physical Laws", I will assume that you are a science pretend2bee.

By the way, I haven't really made a declaration toward any scientific or Biblical conclusion, but have only questioned the logical and evidentiary vitality of some statements. So you've done a whole lot of assuming, for a real scientist, on what I think, why I think it, and why you should call me silly names.
---matthew on 11/1/07

jerry: To the untrained psuedo-scientists the lies in evolution are not clearly seen. To those without the Spirit of Truth an honest examination of what they have been fed since childhood is difficult for them to accept as the lies they are. Instead they hang onto a scientific theory that has been proven wrong and honor it as a baseless religion.
---TS on 11/1/07

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TS: These science wannabees don't understand that an entropic closed system means closed to additional information. Adding energy does not add information.

Your example of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is an excellent one. In addition to the energy added, more genetic mutations occurred that day than at any other time in earth's history. It should have been a hotbed of new species creation according to neo-darwinism - but alas, only death and injury!
---jerry6593 on 11/1/07


So according to your understanding of Science, if energy is applied to one locality then life should be created. Therefore we need to look no further than a steel mill to prove that Creation as described in Genesis is correct.

Lack of evidence in one or many instances does not disprove a theory, nor does it prove another theory that is illegitimately defined as its opposite.
---matthew on 10/31/07

You know that your offer is a straw man argument, since such a single experiment as StrongAxe points out, cannot be done to verify Creation, The Big Bang, Evolution etc. As a scientist, you should know this.

As a scientist could you start slowly and explain to us what is meant by "Physical Laws" in terms we lay people can understand? Maybe if you start here we can learn from you. Please don't refer us to the Internet. You can explain this, can't you?
---matthew on 10/31/07

StrongAxe: At Hiroshima and Nagasaki a tremendous ammount of energy was provided an area already filled with the basic elements of life.

Not one thing was created or evolved as a result. Only more CHAOS and disorder resulted.

Its only the Intelligent application of Energy that can create anything living, new and useful.
---TS on 10/31/07

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Matt: Your silliness aside, I do indeed have the credentials to substantiate my training and profession as a scientist. It is clear that you do not. See the post below to Mr. Axe, I extend the offer to you as well to propose ANY scientific experiment whatsoever to establish the veracity of the evolutionary hypothesis. I gave one, now it's your turn. If you have none, perhaps you should stop "re-stating your religious beliefs in science sounding ways."
---jerry6593 on 10/31/07


You are right that entropy (disorder) is increasing GLOBALLY, and the universe is cooling. However, evolution (and other processes by which order increases) only need order to increase LOCALLY. As long as you have a local source of energy (like, say, the Sun) this provides enough oomph that allow order-building processes to happen locally regardless of the chaos happening elsewhere. Entropy can decrease locally as long as it inceases globally - this does NOT violate the laws of physics.
---StrongAxe on 10/31/07

jerry6593: (1)

All that the granite argument proves is that the granite foundation rocks were formed by some other process than "slow melting and cooling". This cannot by itself prove the age of the earth (and if you look at many different rock strata, they all tell different stories of how and when they were created - not a single coincidental value of 6011 years).
---StrongAxe on 10/31/07

jerry6593: (2)

The ScientifiC Method works based on making hypotheses and conducting experiments to test them. What kind of experiment can you perform to see whether or not the earth is young or old?

In any case, since we do not have the technology to test planets and see how long they take to form, we are not able to conduct experiments to see how long it takes. If Evolution is a "theory" for this reason, Creation Science is just a "theory" for exactly the same reason.
---StrongAxe on 10/31/07

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To say that evolution is 'atheistic' is silly. Those who claim natural selection condradicts 'scientific laws' are clearly ignorant of such scientif laws. They stand only on rhetoric, divorced from reality. I am a scientist, and back up all claims that evolution can be backed up by objective evidence, not rhetorical opinion
---MikeM on 10/30/07

Matthew, I will check the sites. Thanks for being a sane and reasonable person around here. It is refreshing. Blessings!
---John1944 on 10/30/07

Restating religious beliefs about the time-god to sound scientific are what mathew's Evolutionist brethren do. "Once upon a time..."

C'mon now. Now you're assuming who my brethren are, what they think, and by association what I think, and then mocking your contrived result with, "Once upon a time...".

I guess that's your version of throwing sand in my face. Who's got yard duty in this sandbox today?
---matthew on 10/30/07

jerry: Restating religious beliefs about the time-god to sound scientific are what mathew's Evolutionist brethren do. "Once upon a time..."
---TS on 10/30/07

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John1944, if you want silliness Google "Kent Hovind" and "Dinosaur Adventure".
---matthew on 10/30/07

The Creation Museum is too silly to bother denouncing.
---John1944 on 10/30/07

Jerry, I am not a scientist. If you have some credentials to claim you are a scientist re-stating your religious beliefs in science sounding ways, pointing to faulty claims, uncertain evidence, and untestable theories proves nothing.

Science provides a methodology to seek truth. Its advance is based on discoveries which make false, at least to some degree, those of the past, better discribing what we observe. As a "scientist" you should know this, and your words here reflect that idea.
---matthew on 10/30/07

mathew: Bible is the Word of God. Take it or leave it. Cant have one foot in atheistic evolution and the other on Scripture. Carbon dating is flawed. Fact, 3 different methods yield dates varying by millions of years. Fact, Universe is cooling not warming as needed for Atheo-evolution to work in spite of Physical Laws. Universe is prone toward chaos, that means disorder falling apart. Evolution needs the opposite to come together on its own to achieve more complex state: Violating the Laws of Physics.
---TS on 10/29/07

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Mr. Axe: (The strength is questionable.) *"Creationist Science" is a bad idea.* WRONG! Let's apply the scientific method to the origin of our planet. Did earth gradually cool or was it instantly created? The granite foundation rocks prove instantaneous creation by the existence of polonium halos, and when granite is melted, it reforms into rhyolite - not granite. Thus, the scientific method proves creationism - not Darwinian gradualism. Now you propose an experiment to verify evolution.
---jerry6593 on 10/29/07

"Creationist Science" is a bad idea. This has nothing to do with whether it is true - its use of the word "Science" is problematic.

In Science, one makes hypotheses, and then one makes experiments to verify or falsify such hypotheses. Some say evolution is not science because "nobody saw a fish evolve into a bird". Well, nobody saw God creating birds either, since man wasn't around then. If Evolution isn't science, Creationism can't be, for exactly the same reasons.
---StrongAxe on 10/27/07

Matt: *If you are going to play in the scientific sand box you're going to have to do more than say, "Today I get to be the scientist"*

OK, I'm a degreed physicist with a long career in the sciences. And you are .....?
---jerry6593 on 10/27/07


There is no religion of atheism, and there is no god of evolution. The "laws" of physics were the same then as they are now.

Do you really believe that there is some conspiracy to suppress evidence of God?

And where is the scientific evidence for God? Show me.

By the way, I don't need scientific evidence to believe in God or the salvation of Christ. Nor do I believe the Bible should be read literally and absolutely.

Why are you afraid.
---matthew on 10/26/07

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mathew: The religion of Atheism does just what you accuse Christians of doing. They create a construct to prove God does not exist and then supress and deny the scientific evidence in favor of God so that they worship the time god of Evolution. "Millions and millions of years ago in the unobservable unprovable past the Laws of Physics fell apart and a fairy tale emerged"
---TS on 10/26/07

If you are going to play in the scientific sand box you're going to have to do more than say, "Today I get to be the scientist", and then re-state your religious beliefs in science sounding ways, pointing to faulty claims, uncertain evidence, and untestable theories.

You denigrate science, logic and the brain God gave you when you do.

Are you really so insecure in your faith that you must defend the literal word of the Bible with your own invented false science?
---matthew on 10/26/07

Matt: I'm sure that 7th S. can give you many science examples of creation. I'll add one small, incontrovertable scientific evidence for creation - the discovery by Robert Gentry of the existence of polonium halos (with a 3-minute half-life) in worldwide foundational granites.
---jerry6593 on 10/26/07

mathew: Search for yourself. Its all around you and you have an internet connection. Unless of course you prefer Evolution and simply want to deny the evidence of Creation then you will never come to believe the Word of God by looking objectively at the evidence.
---SeventhSeal on 10/25/07

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Show me some science.
---matthew on 10/25/07

mathew: The Evidence for Creation Stands on the Science that supports it. I am a Scientist, have 50 Patents in my name, and recognize clearly that Evolution is a fraud unsupportable by the Laws of Physics.

Creation has numerous evidences that an atheistic culture attempts to cover up. The evidence is all around us for God's Creation.

As far as Hovind Cheating folks... I doubt it. All the Apostles spent time in jail under fabricated charges and concocted evidences.
---SeventhSeal on 10/25/07

These were employee taxes that he kept. Meaning withholding taxes and social security taxes that were rightly the property of his employees. This goes far beyond one not paying his own taxes as a demonstration of moral and religious principle. It is theft.

And if his understanding of the tax code was so faulty, should we give credence to his "science"?
---matthew on 10/24/07

seventh seal - finally we agree on something.
lots of great men have not paid their taxes and few go to prison. It is a shame but it does not negate the science. Although it would make me question his integrity
---Andrea on 10/24/07

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mathew: Interesting. I warned Hovind that "a little leaven leavens the whole lump" and that his Theology regarding the "Illuminati" and his claims that we do not have to pay taxes would utlimately undermine the parts of his ministry that were on target. "Render unto Ceasar that which is ceasars" was the advice.

Still, this does not take away the truth in the Creation Science he presented.
---SeventhSeal on 10/24/07


Kent Hovind and His wife Jo were sentenced to prison for ten years on charges of tax fraud which included failure to pay $845,000 in employee-related taxes out of their operation of Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola, Florida.

But he did say some spectacularly entertaining things before he left, such as "If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that."
---Matthew on 10/23/07

Mrevilution: Hovind is not in Prison...and Even if he were, It does not change the Science Provided that shows Evolution a fraud perpetrated by dishonest atheists.
---SeventhSeal on 10/22/07

matthew: You make excellent points! Why is it that the so-called "Theistic Evolutionists" are so quick to believe that the Bible is full of myths (lies), but the "science" of Evolution is not? This, even in light of the manifold hoaxes that mark the history of Darwinism.
---jerry6593 on 10/22/07

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Scripture was intended to tell of that which we can not know, the eternal and spiritual. Science is find the natural wonders of God in that we do know, time and physicality. Science can not speak to the metaphysical, when it denigrates the Scripture it has moved beyond its purpose and must continue searching for the fingerprints of The Creator.
---ed_the_other_one on 10/19/07

John ... I beleive that present day concerns can be answered by looking in the bible, and using the brains that God gave us.
That is nothing to do with the limited Creation account in Genesis. And as for "omissions", as I suggested you should read the closing verses of Johns Gospel.
---alan_of_UK on 10/19/07

John ... # 2 but a present day concern is how to get food aid quickly to disaster areas (say Darfur) Please tell me what the Bible says about flight plans, and the correct height to fly for a parachute supply drop.
Oh dear God you let us down by not putting that in the Bible ... or perhaps we are not supposed to undertake relief work, since God did not tell us how to do it in the 21st century
---alan_of_UK on 10/19/07

The Creation Museum has noting to do with science, but it will be a success for the same reason that PT Barnum found success in America. Anyone with a bachelors degree in any science could see through it. I feel sorry for children who are told this is science. That borders child abuse.

Basic science 101- The fundamentalist who fabricate it embark on it with a biased dogma and attempt to render subjective belief relevant to reality, such presupposition are RELIGIOUS, and not science.
---McEvolution on 10/19/07

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As to Mr Hovind, he is in prison.
---MrEvolution on 10/19/07

Allan of UK, I definitely lean toward science, but your question to Andrea suggest that perhaps the Bible does not describe completely the work of God. If answers to our present day's concerns can not be answered because of omissions in the Bible, as you seem to suggest, how can we be certain that we have a complete Bible that guides us in greater matters such as sin, Heaven, Hell, and Salvation?
---matthew on 10/19/07

alan - your a good guy - I don't believe in evolution you do - I don't understand that but I never argue with christians who believe in evo only christians who teach it

so back off and focus on what we do believe in
I graduated in 2000 with a bach in Science (Psy) but clinical - there was nothing in those classes that persuaded me, and there are many scientist that belive in Creationism so why you believe darwin beats me but have at it
---Andrea on 10/19/07

Look up Kent Hovind at creation science evangelism. He has an excellent site showing the Evidences of Creation and the false science of Evolution. He is a Baptist.
---TS on 10/19/07

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I am not sure that I understand. But if it should sway God's people away from God as our Creator the answer ofcourse is how absurd. In studying I came up with this by the help of Gpd our Creator>>>We can be independent if we want to be and we can all go up in SMOKE.>>>I trust that this answers your questions.
---catherine on 10/19/07

Andrea >. The Bible contains .... how many words? And how many about the creation of God's world?
Do you relly think that what is recorded in the Bible is all that God did and how he did it?
Read the last verses of John's Gospel ... they apply to the whole of God's work, not just Jesus'
---alan_of_UK on 10/19/07

Amen, Marty!
Try this. "God has written two books, Scripture and nature." (Bacon) We ought to be reading them both all the time. Scripture is infallible, nature is God's handiwork. The two are not intended to contradict and when it appears that they do, we must work to figure it out!
---bartel on 10/18/07

Not All Scientist Denounce the Creation Museum, only those who worship at the alter of atheism and the time god of evolution.

The story is always the same "Millions and millions of years ago..."

Most similar fairytales start out the same way "Once upon a time..."
---TS on 10/18/07

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The Duke and the nutty professor understand it.
Yes, our brains are probably the size of a micro pea compared to God's infinite wisdom.
---Bob on 10/18/07

alan UK - do you believe God made Adam and Eve?

Just trying to understand how you get evolution and the Bible together. I thought you were a believer and you can be a believer in old age earth but not in Darwinism and evolution. You'd have to deny the bible to do that.
---Andrea on 10/18/07


That doesn't make any sense.
---matthew on 10/18/07

Alrighty then.
I no longer believe just anyone who tells me that they are the Duke of Earle, either.
Because here's the thing, the Duke, the nutty professor, the orthodox, all starting ringing like one bell, and it's not a liberty bell.
---Bob on 10/18/07

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My question to you is if the good things scientists make are inspired by God, are bad things such as nuclear weapons, inspired by the Devil?
---matthew on 10/18/07

Mr. highly evolved.
The devil exalted his thoughts and intellect above God at one time. He fell suddenly like lightning from heaven.
May I remind you when push comes to shove, creation vs. evolution - the staff of God swallowed up the staff of satan's people. God's power is always greater than man's ideas about intellect.
---Bob on 10/18/07

I do not jest. Following your logic the good that is created by scientists is guided by God and would not be possible without his help. You are only one step away for pre-destination and a world view of us all being wind-up toys He made for His amusement.

But if you are right, how do you explain nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons? Did the those scientists get their inspiration from Satan?
---matthew on 10/18/07

Bob ... Men's brains are not peas.
They were given by God which is why man was able to invent the wheel (and the internet)without instructions in Genesis
---alan_of_UK on 10/18/07

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Surely you jest, other matthew. The pea brains of men invented nothing, discovered nothing without the power of God behind their brains. The gifted and talented would not be so without God's permission.
---Bob on 10/18/07

Ritah, Scientists are not given their "knowledge" by God, but by rigorous investigation using the scientific method. If God were to give such things the instructions of how to build a wheel would be found somewhere no doubt in Genesis.
---matthew on 10/18/07

I live about 1 hour from this creation musuem. I took my Christian school 5th grade class to see it once. It is all science. It was so over my head, I couldn't understand a lot of it but I got the main points. The only people who would denounce it or the same people that denounce God.
---MichelleS on 10/17/07

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