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Is The U.S. A Christian Nation

Do you believe the United States is a Christian nation?

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 ---Cynthia on 10/26/07
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MikeM: In organized churches all you have are hearers of the Bible. Rarely do people go out and DO the will of God as instructed in the Bible. Rarely is there true personal growth. Rarely do they know each other intimatey.

As for home churches, people are few and theyknow each other intimately. They are more able to encourage one another, help one another, grow with one another. They are a close-knit family. Starting a homebased church will cover a multitude of sins.
---Steveng on 1/12/08

MORE IN WORDS.than anything else.
---Jack_8773 on 1/6/08

Stevng-My point stands, Look to Websters definition of religionand gnosticism. American Fundamentalism is a 'form of' gnosticism.

I misspelled a name, I hope that is the worst thing I ever do. I should write gooder. I have been called some names here and elsewhere, its water on a ducks back.
---MikeM on 1/5/08

You're confusing Christianity with religion. It's religion that corrupts. Christianity is nothing but a relationship with God. Religions are man-made.

if you want to have a relationship with God Almighty, talk straight to God Almigthy, not throught somebody or something(figure). Not only talk with your tougue but with your action, and with your intention.
---Sheila on 1/4/08

MikeM: "Steving, what your are saying is 'everyone is their own church'..."

First, my name is Steveng, not Steving. (intentionally from your heart)

Second, Do you twist verses from the Bible like you twist my words?
---Steveng on 1/3/08

Hogwash... try reading the Magna Carta, which is the basis of common law and of our form of government.
---NurseRobert on 12/27/07

The founding fathers all confirm that they got it from the Bible in their writings. I guess they were all just practical jokers. Joke's on me!
---Greyrider on 12/31/07

BTW, GW or Hillary (God forbid) can tape any phone conversation of mine. I have nothing to hide.

I have nothing to hide either, but I will never accept the governments "right" to violate the rights given to us in the Constitution. Wiretaps without a warrant are illegal.
---NurseRobert on 12/30/07

Steving, what your are saying is 'everyone is their own church'-That historically is a form of gnosticism. Its taking Luthers paradigm of 'priesthood of the believers' to the extreme, it is a product of American culture. I reference Emerson
---MikeM on 12/28/07

As for the original question, anyone that reads the tombstones, inscriptions on historical sites and our Bill of Rights knows that the men followed the morals and teachings of the word of God with what measure they knew.
And, slavery is scriptural and has no place in this matter. It was to provide for the poor.
Look it up for yourself with an unbiased opinion.
Everything been grossly perverted over the last 40 years. Our constitution is not the Word. Especially with all of the amendments.
---Frank on 12/27/07

NOT ANYMORE. Did you know that all the top officials and all the people with power worship Molech, a 40 foot owl in california and in the bible, in a place called the Bohemian grove? Its true just ask Alex Jones or go to his web.
---jody on 12/27/07

in the USA we are free to worship as Christians. We are free to worship Christ, unlike in Turkey, India,Saudi Arabia and China.
This makes the USA unique in the part it plays in Christianity.
Thus it is a Pro-Christian Nation.
Lets fight to keep it that way!
---lisa on 12/27/07

Which brand of "righteous" are you preaching, Grey? The George Bush "trample on your rights" type?
---NurseRobert on 12/24/07

I haven't agreed with everything he's done, but what "rights" have been trampled? Too many people take the Clinton-esque liquid interpretation of the Constitution where everyone interprets it based on their own agenda. BTW, GW or Hillary (God forbid) can tape any phone conversation of mine. I have nothing to hide.
---Greyrider on 12/27/07

Interestingly enough, out entire Constitution is deeply rooted in OT teaching on government.

Hogwash... try reading the Magna Carta, which is the basis of common law and of our form of government.
---NurseRobert on 12/27/07

MikeM: "...Name one time in history when a 'Christian' controlled country was better, emjoyed freedom. All were failures.

You're confusing Christianity with religion. It's religion that corrupts. Christianity is nothing but a relationship with God. Religions are man-made.
---Steveng on 12/26/07

catherine, or anyone. Name one time in history when a 'Christian' controlled country was better, emjoyed freedom. All were failures. Religion in goverment or goverment in religion corrupts both.

I will stick with our constitution- our secular republic.

The best improvement for society woud be if society was less secular. Thats a cultural failure.
---MikeM on 12/24/07

Proverbs 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice,
But when a wicked man rules, the people groan.
---Greyrider on 12/10/07

Which brand of "righteous" are you preaching, Grey? The George Bush "trample on your rights" type?
---NurseRobert on 12/24/07

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Vote for Mit Romney and it will be more a Christian Nation then it is today!
---lisa on 12/8/07.

No, it will be a more MORMAN nation.
---NurseRobert on 12/24/07

The book "Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States" by Benjamin F. Morris was published in 1864 and having over 1000 pages will answer all the questions - even the seemingly contradictory posts. This book is a must read to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt about the founding fathers. It's in public domain and available in PDF format from Google books and the Internet Archive
---Steveng on 12/22/07

There is no such thing as a christian nation...they are all operating the plans and schemes of satan the devil...wars, corruption, etc. However, out of every nation people can find the Truth. It is there in the Scriptures.
---Jualsy on 12/22/07

If the U.S. was a Christian nation we could go to bed at nights with our doors unlocked. Instead, we are living in fear of out very lives. This shows in many different ways. Too suspicious of others is one. So, No this country is not filled with true believers but is filled with true unbelievers. And sin is abound. And God's Judgment uopn this nation is a sure thing.
---catherine on 12/21/07

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Again, the founding Fathers, through deeply immersed in Judeo-Christian heritage were Unitarisn(rejecting Roman Trinity) deist, and half were freemasons. The constitution is a secular document, with a variety of enlightenment influences.

The Declaration of Independence refers to 'natures Gd-This is Jeffersons and others deist concept. Their religion was a great distance from todays fundamentalism, also called here, 'pop-evangicals'
---MikeM on 12/21/07

Jesus came and Preached the Gospel. Jesus' followers were never called Christians. But were called "disciples". All of the religions of GOD Almighty taught the Oneness of GOD Almighty, who also created Jesus and everything thats between the earth and the sky.
---Sheila on 12/21/07

Interestingly enough, out entire Constitution is deeply rooted in OT teaching on government. The 3 branches, separation of powers, trial by jury, a written down law, the idea of protected rights, electing our own leaders, ALL come from the Bible. Unfortunately, most of our congressmen and senators do not have the moral standards taught in the Bible.

Proverbs 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice,
But when a wicked man rules, the people groan.
---Greyrider on 12/10/07

America was a Protestant country up until about 1875, after which Catholics and Jews started pouring in. As for the Founding Fathers, remember that most of them were Freemasons.
---InimicusStultitiae on 12/9/07

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The Constitution is a secular document. It begins "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." Its references to religion are exclusionary such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI) The constitution reflects the deist, masonic, enlightenment ideas of the founders and not anyones sectarian notions. Also, the notion of a 'Republic' is a 100% pagan, secular idea.
---MikeM on 12/9/07

The United States of America as a country does not need to come to God. The individuals that make up this nation need to come to God. The government cannot bring people to God. Only God can bring people to Him using His mouth pieces, individual's of any and all countries. Put the emphasis where it needs to be. Not on countries but on individual people.
---dan on 12/9/07

The prophesies in the Bible are unfolding before our eyes. It is well known among biblical students that the masons are running our country and hope to run the world. The U.S. is a worldly nation with many God fearing people as its citizens. This is the reason God has spared this nation from the trials and tribulations other nations experience. But that is changing because more and more people are getting swept into the deceptions of evil. It's all written in the Bible.
---CYNTHIA on 12/8/07

I think our founding fathers made it very clear on how we are to handle religion and state. We do not live in a democracy, rather a democratic republic. Democracy = majority rule. Democratic Republic = majority rule unless it disadvantages the minority. Also Darwin (a baptist PK) had not developed his theory yet. God or no God were the only accepted belief.
---dan on 12/9/07

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listen to adrian rogers at one place, wmp "will GOD impeach america". Isiah "the nation that will not serve GOD will perish".
---yahshua_first on 12/8/07

Vote for Mit Romney and it will be more a Christian Nation then it is today!
---lisa on 12/8/07

The masonic issues were created by the same type of conspiracy theorists who think that JFK is alive, living in a secret room at the White House and has been advising US Presidents ever since. There is NO CONNECTION and virtually no similarities between modern-day Freemasonry and the masonic lodge of the 18th century.
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

No they are not..just see what most people believe in the USA.every vile games etc begins in the U.S.A we once were a christian nation till our government turned away from God..they have..and the blessing has gone throughout the world more so..I will never go back to the U.S.
---pammy on 12/7/07

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If the United States is a Christian nation Howard the Duck brought the 10 commandments down from the mount.
What may have started out as some biblical principles and morals has been blasphemied this last 40 years both in and out of church.
The gospel which was good enough for salvation until 1960 or so has been perverted to tell people what they want to believe rather than what the word of God commands.
It won't go on much longer.
Many shall be sorry for what they believe.
---Frank on 12/7/07

Once the USA operated with Christian principles but no more.Also the USA has never supported any certain denomination.We have freedom of religion.I don't believe in secret orders but in otder to join the Masons.You have to state that you believe there is a God.
---shirley on 12/7/07

The Barbary Powers conflict was seen by some as a new Crusade. Muslims wanted war with what they saw as "Christian Nations" including the USA. The Treaty of Tripoli refers to the fact that the founders did not believe in forced conversion as did the Muslim nations of that day. They did not see themselves as being out to kill Muslims. In that regard, we were not a "Christian nation" in that non-christians were (and are) welcome here. See my previous quote from Patrick Henry
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

Through not secular, the Founders were OVERWHELMINGLY deist, masonic, and unitarian. DC is built on a masonic grid, masonic symbols are all over D.C-and on the doller bill, Washington is often shown in his masonic apron, his inaguration was a mason ritual, etc etc etc etc

(It is my belief the society should be religious, it is constitutionally mandated the goverment be secular.)
---MikeM on 12/7/07

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I saw a film called National Treasure it said the founders were Masonic.
---Jay on 12/7/07

John Adams, Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11
"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion

James Madison, In my examination of the absurd doctrines of Calvin, Luther, and Atheasious I find the Roman trinity to be incomprehensible gibberish designed to distance the laity from any true devotion to deity.
---MikeM on 12/7/07

18th century American Congregationalists and Calvinists had quite a different idea of what "Christian" means from 21st century pop-evangelicals.
---Jack on 12/7/07

George Washington - " It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."
"What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ." [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]
"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

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MikeM - Pre-Pike Masonry and Post-Pike are RADICALLY different. Paine was a deist. Franklin's comment about Whitfield came in his 70's. Your other comments are pulled so far out of context, it's almost laughable. The founders were vehemently opposed to the government dictating which denomination any person should belong to, as was the case in England. OBVIOUSLY, they commented on abuses performed in the name of religion. That's what the kings did!!!
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

John Adams - "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." // "The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity" // I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

Samuel Adams - July 2, 1776 upon the passing of the Declaration of Independence "We have this day restored to Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come."
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

Patrick Henry - It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

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John Jay - Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

Thomas Jefferson - He denied the Deity of Jesus, but said ... " The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man."
"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus."
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

James Madison - "We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. Weve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacityto sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

Benjamin Rush - "Christianity is the only true and perfect religion."
"If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary."
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

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I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. (Richard Emery Roberts, ed. "Excerpts from The Age of Reason". Selected Writings of Thomas Paine. p. 362
---MikeM on 12/7/07

Known Masons, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Joseph Hewes, William Hooper, Robert Treat Payne, Richard Stockton, George Walton, William Whipple
Elbridge Berry, Lyman Hall, Thomas Nelson Jr., John Penn, George Read, Roger Sherman

Considering deist and unitarian influence, pnly 27% of the signers were 'orthodox' Christians.
---MikeM on 12/7/07

John Adams - not mason
Samuel Adams -
Ethan Allen - Mason
Edmund Burke - Mason
John Claypoole - Mason
William Daws - Mason
Benjamin Franklin - Mason
Nathan Hale - Not Mason
John Hancock - Mason
Benjamin Harrison - not mason Patrick Henry - Not mason
---MikeM on 12/7/07

Thomas Jefferson - Deist/mason
John Paul Jones - Mason
Francis Scott Key - Not mason Robert Livingston - Mason
James Madison - Mason
Thomas Paine - Humanist
Paul Revere - Mason
Colonel Benjamin Tupper - Mason
George Washington - Mason
Daniel Webster - Unknown
---MikeM on 12/7/07

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John Adams,
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

James Madison,
"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?"
---MikeM on 12/7/07

James Madison, "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy, ignorance and servility in laity, in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."
---MikeM on 12/7/07

Benjamin Franklin,
Some books against Deism fell into my hands,it happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them, for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist
---MikeM on 12/7/07

Jefferson, "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg"

Thomas Jefferson,
"Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than on our opinions in physics and geometry. . . ."
---MikeM on 12/7/07

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AlwaysOn - There's a very good point for today's Americans to learn from the fact that many good Christians did own slaves. Many SCHOOLS back then TAUGHT that black people were inferior intellectually and it was our "Christian duty" to care for them because they were incapable of living on their own. Most of THOSE slaves were not abused by their owners, but it did pave the way for others slaves to suffer. Never underestimate the importance of TRUTH being taught in America's classrooms.
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

1.Greyrider-"Freemasonry did not even exist in America until Albert Pike introduced it in the 1840's." What? ? ?
---MikeM on 12/7/07

Sorry MikeM, 52 of the 56 were mainstream Christians (read THEIR writings and not the modern-day revisionists). Their own written testimonies completely violate deist/unitarian doctrine. Even Ben Franklin wrote that George Whitfield had him considering converting to Christianity late in life. Freemasonry did not even exist in America until Albert Pike introduced it in the 1840's.
---Greyrider on 12/7/07

No, the United States in general has abandoned Jesus Christ a long time ago, and they have and will pay for their discrimination. My God is an all-consuming fire, and it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
---Eloy on 12/7/07

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Christians flourish in the USA.
More then anywhere else in the World. that is why Christians come to the they can worship Jesus Christ!
---lisa on 12/7/07

It was designed to be. Now that we celebrate so many cultural differences, the US is losing the roots of Christianity.
---jody on 12/6/07

I appreciate your p.o.v., Grey, even though I cannot agree with it. History has proven that far more "Christians" owned and endorsed slavery than you may have been led to believe. Nevertheless, it's your right to believe what you choose, I won't argue the point with you. As for the enslaved victims who became Christians, seems they did so based on the truth of Messiah despite the cruel ways in which they were treated and the poor witnesses they encountered.
---AlwaysOn on 12/6/07

Americas founding Fathers were deist, freemasons, and unitarians. Only a few of the 56 signs of the constitution were 'orthodox' in their beliefs.

As to slavery, anyone know why we have northern then southern Baptist?
---MikeM on 12/6/07

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AlwaysOn - Here's a good example of the slavery issue. A Christian is walking thru town, sees a slaveowner and his slave. He says "oh, that's terrible" and keeps on walking. He's got things to do, responsibilities to take care of, and a few minutes later, the slave is a distant memory. There are sins of commission and sins of omission. Interestingly, many slaves were Christians, so they must have been exposed to loving treatment from someone they came in contact with.
---Greyrider on 12/6/07

The Native American history changed almost overnight. Truth is, there were (for the most part, with most tribes), very respectful, very Christian friendships between the settlers, founders and Native Americans throughout the 17th and 18th centuries. At the dawning of the 19th century, the founders died and those who came to power (both in Washington and the military) launched a campaign of death and destruction against the Native Americans that would've outraged the founders.
---Greyrider on 12/6/07

I agree that reading the "people's history" along with mainstream history sources is very important. The slave narratives are very telling of the climate of that day. As well, many of us can speak with relatives old enough to recall the stories passed down surrounding that period. Again, did enslaved Africans and American born blacks of that time see Messiah reflected in the people and politicians of that day? Overall, were they treated lovingly?
---AlwaysOn on 12/5/07

Also, were Native Americans broadly treated with the love of Messiah? Did they see Messiah's love reflected in their treatment by the early founders of this nation?
---AlwaysOn on 12/5/07

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#1) If you go back and read "the people's" history, (journals, letters, diaries) instead of ivory tower history books, you get a more accurate view of opinions of that particular time. Those sources do indicate an apathetic view toward the slaves. People generally said it was wrong, so THEY wouldn't do it. But few ever stood up to fight on behalf of the defenseless slaves. In their defense, life was hard then. Most people were just getting by day by day and putting food on the table.
---Greyrider on 12/5/07

#2) The easiest way to explain the Civil War is this: Imagine Al Gore buys GM, announces a huge sale on trucks and SUV's, and makes billions. He's elected President and his first move is to outlaw trucks and SUV's. That's essentially what happened. The North ran the slave trade, took the money, and built the New England economic empire financed by the slave trade, then wanted the South to give up those slaves. The South wanted to negotiate a financial settlement, North said no, we had war.
---Greyrider on 12/5/07

#3) Many Christians reintroduced indentured servitude on their own. They bought slaves, let them work off their purchase price and released them. This was especially prevalent in South Carolina. There are 60,000 documented free blacks who ENLISTED in the Confederate Army. That speaks volumes.
---Greyrider on 12/5/07


You got me. Two of the founding fathers hated slavery but kept them because it was against the law. So if the majority of all Americans have always believed that slavery was wrong, what was that thing called the civil war?

And where did you get your information on past historical beliefs? Do you know how to take a statisically valid poll of the long dead? What is the margin of error?
---matthew on 12/5/07

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Matthew, do a little research. Both Washington and Jefferson were outraged over being told by the Virginia legislature that it was illegal to simply release slaves that they had inherited. It was state law. Jefferson paid his slaves wages for their work. Washington released his slaves in his will.
---Greyrider on 12/5/07


Get real.

Jefferson was a slave owner.
---matthew on 12/5/07

The majority of Americans have always opposed slavery, even in the South. The problem was always apathy. "I don't own slaves, my family and friends aren't involed in it, so not my problem" We have the same problem today with abortion.
---Greyrider on 12/5/07

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